Restoring democracy in the United States

[Peace Patriot]

Several DUers have asked me to re-post this piece for wider discussion. Originally it was my comment (#23) on Grassy Knoll's post...

"Obama and GOPers Worked Together to Kill Bush Torture Probe"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4638267#4640147

It also appeared here, with many comments:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x302923#303036

My comment was aimed at trying to understand why the Obama administration would help cover up Bush Junta war crimes--which they have clearly been trying to do, and which many people find disturbing. My wish is that people will get beyond feeling "disturbed" and start thinking more strategically: How do we insure that our elected leaders stay accountable to "the People"? In what mechanism does our sovereign power chiefly reside, and what is the condition of that mechanism of "people power"? To get there--to effective action--we need to form some notion of what is going on in our nation's political power structure, especially the parts of it that we can't see very well. We are forced to guess. That, and the remedy (or the beginning of a remedy) are what this post is about.

Here is my original comment, as is. I'm going to add more at the bottom:

--

You want my theory? Here it is...

Circa 2006: Constant talk of a possible U.S. nuclear strike on Iran. But also serious rumblings in the military brass opposing it. (Too dangerous--Iran no pushover like Iraq was; and nuke powers China and Russia threatening to come into it, on Iran's side--potential Armageddon). Junior in deep doo-doo with the CIA over the outing of its entire WMD counter-proliferation project--not just Valerie Plame--they outed the whole network run under the Brewster-Jennings front company, endangering CIA agents/contacts throughout the world and probably getting some of them killed.** Rumsfeld and Cheney did it, but Junior signed off/went along. Fitzgerald puts Libby behind bars, says he was obstructed, points at Cheney (but says it's a political problem). 2005 had been all about this--who would take the fall? And Iraq is a mess--bloody, corrupt, chaotic. Early 2006, Daddy Bush forms his Iraq Study Group (ISG) to rescue Junior from CIA retribution and forms a coalition with military brass and others to stop the nuking of Iran, which Rumsfeld/Cheney are determined to do, and save Junior's skin. Take note: Leon Panetta (old CIA) is a member of Daddy Bush's ISG. They put a deal to Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld: No nuking of Iran. Rumsfeld has to resign. And Junior and Cheney will go quietly when the time comes. In exchange for, no impeachment or further investigation/prosecution for their many, many crimes.

The Democrats are permitted to win the 2006 Congressional elections (with lots of "Blue Dogs"). Nancy Pelosi announces that "Impeachment is off the table." (WHAT "table"?) Rumsfeld resigns, apropos of nothing (to appearances). (The "Blue Dog" Congress almost immediately funds the "surge" he wanted.) All talk of nuking Iran goes away. Pelosi travels to the Middle East to give the news to Israel and other allies. In the pre-arranged 'Gulf of Tonkin'-type incident to trigger the strike on Iran--British sailors caught in Iranian waters--Iran smilingly gives the sailors back.

The next problem is vetting the 2008 presidential candidates to insure that whoever enters the White House agrees to "the Deal." It is also decided that a weak "liberal" would be a good idea, to start taking the blame for the Bush Junta horrors and induced Depression. (The Bush Cartel and the far right billionaires running things have the power to do this. See below--my evaluation of Obama.) Ultimately, Obama passes the vetting (agrees to "the Deal") and gets elected--which I think he really was--and is also permitted to be elected, and very nearly the first thing out of his mouth is "we need to look forward not backward" on Bush Junta crimes. (They teach that at Harvard Law School?) And nobody gets prosecuted, or even investigated. Nada. Nothing.

Obama appoints ISG member Leon Panetta as CIA Director. There is a brief flutter of 'he ain't qualified/he's a civilian.' That goes away very quickly and he sails through Congress without another peep. One of his jobs was to stop the war between the Pentagon and the CIA--to heal the wounds that Rumsfeld (and Cheney) had inflicted--and another is to clean up after Junior. I could tell you a whole story about what I think the Bush Junta was doing in Colombia and why the Obama administration/Panetta are coddling and protecting the spying-connected, death-squad-connected, drug trafficking-connected recently ex-pResident of Colombia, Bush Jr pal Alvaro Uribe, but I won't go into it here, and you get the idea. Any loose ends around the world, that might attach to Junior, are being taken care of, with the Obama administration aiding and abetting Panetta (in the case of Colombia, involving serious sabotage of the Colombian justice system).

What do I think of Obama, if this scenario is true? He was probably well-intended and thought that he could do more good in the White House, even with very limited powers, than not in the White House. And "the Deal" and his agreement to it, if these things are true, would be no surprise to me at all. This is what we are now, not a democracy but the highly controlled and propagandized peons of an Empire over which we have no control. My investigations into our election system--how our votes are counted and by whom--were very shocking to me, especially that the Democratic Party leadership let it happen. Basically, one, private, far rightwing corporation--ES&S, which just bought out Diebold--owns and controls 80% of the voting machines in the country, which are run on 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY code, with virtually no audit/controls. This ultimate control mechanism makes it possible--makes it EASY--for the far rightwing and their allies to play our system like a piano. I think Obama actually won, by a bigger margin than we know, on the hopes of the American people for peace and social justice but he has no power to deliver either. And until we rectify this situation--get rid of these machines and restore vote counting to the PUBLIC VENUE--there will not be, and cannot be, any serious reform.

What do I think of Obama now? I think he's going to have bad dreams in his retirement. A good man, sucked in by "the Powers," with terrible things being laid on his conscience.

Items like U.S. interference in Spain's justice system (the Wikileak OP) are best understood, in my opinion, as the inevitable result of "the Deal" that I have described or some similar Deal. Our candidates--besides being pre-selected by corporate money and corporate media--are NOT FREE to say what they think and do what is best. No free agent--a real representative of the People--will ever make it to the White House. No FDR, for instance, could ever be elected now. Things are VERY controlled, and if you want power within this Imperial system, you MUST agree to the controls. That is the price. You have to put a lid on your mind and your heart.

It doesn't do to just rail against Obama or Clinton or the Bushites. We need to understand what is going on. We must open our eyes and look for the strategies by which we can get our power back, as a People. I offer this theory--this scenario--in that spirit. It may be true. It may not be. It may be partly true. But it tries to go deep and also to come up with solutions.

And you WILL find me voting for Obama in 2012! I will never, ever, ever give up my right to vote. But I don't have the power to make them count it in public view. Only the collective will of all of us can accomplish that. And only when we accomplish that, as a People, will we begin to have real choices and real debate again and the chance at real reform.

-----

**(Sub-theory. Rumsfeld/Cheney's plan was to seque the Iraq War into Iran, then and there, soon after the invasion, and they had nukes in route to be planted in Iraq that were traceable to Iran or would be put in route to Iran. SOMEBODY foiled this plan--stopped the shipment. Rumsfeld/Cheney were furious. They were counting on the planted WMDs in Iraq for so many things (political narrative, expanded war). They suspected the CIA's counter-proliferation network. They suspected UN weapons expert David Kelly. They had Kelly offed and outed the entire CIA c/p network. Those two events--Kelly's murder and the CIA outings--happened within four days of each other in July 2003.)

------------------------------------


I discuss our vote counting system and explain my reference to Colombia in further comments at Grassy Knoll's thread. Here I'm going to provide a note on the "sub-theory," a bit of discussion about "evidence" and more on the remedy.


1. Note on the sub-theory: Cheney-Rumsfeld were frustrated as to expanding the war into Iran in 2003, but continued with that goal through 2006, until Rumsfeld resigned in late 2006. After that, all talk of nuking Iran went way, and Cheney's power seemed considerably curtailed. Someone commented on this post that saber-rattling toward Iran has continued. But the threat of an imminent strike did "go away" for a considerable period after Rumsfeld resigned. My guess: political/diplomatic work needed to be done to neuter China/Russia opposition. U.S. threats have picked up recently but concern about "Armageddon" seems to be allayed, and it's possible that Rumsfeld/Cheney's insane notion of invading/occupying Iran has been dropped in favor of other methods of control.


2. "Evidence": I cannot possibly provide all the links necessary to back up individual points in this "theory of everything." I have tried to be faithful to the "facts" in so far as we know them (the succession of events around Rumsfeld's resignation, for instance) The rest is my educated guesses as to what lay behind the bits that we are permitted see. (Someone also commented that it's not really a "theory of everything" and I agree. I meant that title sort of "tongue in cheek.")

I assure you that the theory is based on a lot of years of careful reading of both corpo-fascist and alternative news sources and considerable thought. It is not idle speculation. It is meant to address a particular problem that we U.S. citizens and voters are faced with: That we seem to have no in-put into vital decisions of our elected leaders, such as prosecuting war crimes.

I think we do need thoughtful theories about the power structure in our country just to stay sane amidst its 'Alice in Wonderland' aspects, but, more than this, to be able to identify specific areas of vital importance to our power as a People--such as the corporate takeover of our vote counting system.


3. As to that, I want to add one more fact here, and more information on our election system.

The complete take-over of our election system by corporate entities, using 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, with virtually no audit/recount controls, occurred by act of the Anthrax Congress--a $3.9 billion e-voting boondoggle with no controls on this system--passed in the same month as the Iraq War Resolution (Oct. '02). Around that time, nearly 60% of the American people opposed the Iraq War. Bush-Cheney's "re-election" in 2004 insured the continuation of that war--with all its horrors and tortures and massive looting--for four more years. The non-transparent vote counting system is now locked in, in every state. In my opinion, this is the final method of control for continuation of the Forever War and other gross injustices.

Here are three good sources on our election system: www.bradblog.com, www.richardcharnin.com and www.markcrispinmiller.com. I recommend Charnin's book, Proving Election Fraud, Miller's book, Fooled Again and Stephen Freeman's book, Was the 2004 Presidential Election Stolen? Exit Polls, Election Fraud, and the Official Count for those who want to get into the details. Freeman's is probably the easiest read, but all three are compelling and informative.

http://www.amazon.com/Was-2004-Presidential-Election-Stolen/dp/1583226877
http://www.amazon.com/Fooled-Again-Real-Electoral-Reform/dp/B003IWYJC2/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1291506761&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=%22Proving+Election+Fraud%22&x=13&y=17

But really all you have to do is ask your local election officials to prove to you that your vote was counted in public view and made it all the way to CNN's election "results" as one of many provable, verified, concrete actions by you and others on Election Day. They can't do it. And that's where we should start. We must make them prove it to us.

That proof is precisely what ES&S/Diebold will not yield up and does not want you to have. Corporations have no rightful place between you and that proof. They need to be ousted from that position, and replaced by the old-fashioned paper ballot count or by OPEN SOURCE electronics with the code owned and controlled by the public and with a very substantial audit (hand-count of ballots vs machine totals).
Bottom-line. It's that or it isn't democracy.

Our political leaders surely know that they have been vetted and "chosen" and that ES&S/Diebold, for instance, is a far rightwing corporation with democracy-killing power. Those who "make it" also choose to be part of this system--with good, bad or mixed motives. A few might be muddled stupids. Most are not. Our job as citizens is to be practical--to not let our anger or disgust, or disillusionment get the better of us, but to hang in there on the best system of government ever devised--democracy--and put our democracy back together.

How do we do that? Passivity is no solution. Not voting is no solution. (Never, never, never give up your right to vote!) Simply venting is no solution. Even activism is no solution if all our election work can be undone by a keystroke of some techie in ES&S's basement.
We have to look at the actual mechanisms of power--and of our power as a collective entity: We the People. And we really can't do that if we think that everything is basically okay in the U.S. It is not. The most basic thing of all has now been taken away. Privatized vote counting is both a cause and symptom of everything else. It's my opinion that whatever "deals" went down--and it's pretty clear that something went down--"We the People" were not at that "table." And the main reason we were not there is that we've lost control of the vote counting--our main power and very nearly the definition of our sovereignty. We give power to them, to run the country in our interest. That equation needs to be restored, beginning with vote counting in the PUBLIC venue.

It can be done. There is no federal law requiring 'TRADE SECRET' code vote counting (yet). Local/state jurisdictions still hold the power to choose voting systems. And that's where the fight can and must be won. It will be difficult. It is a must-do.

I wish Barack Obama all the good fortune and prayers in the world! I think he's a well-intentioned, very intelligent man caught in a vise partly of his own making. But we are all colluders in this system in different ways. Don't focus on Obama--neither with anger nor defensiveness. Focus on yourself and your community and what your chosen role should be in reviving our democracy. This is a great and historic task and it is going to be amazing when we succeed and I feel quite confident that we will.

Peace :patriot:


(edited for typos)

[leftstreet]

1. K&R

Thanks for reposting this

Interesting ideas about Panetta. He seemed like such a strange choice at the time

K&R

[HCE SuiGeneris]

2. Unless we have voting that can be assured to be free of electronic tampering.

we can not have faith in our democratic process of elections.

[DeSwiss]

3. Exactly.

And that ain't gonna happen.

K&R

[Peace Patriot]

4. Please, DeSwiss! It CAN happen. It is a DOABLE citizen campaign.

A DOABLE, peaceful, righteous campaign that could involve MANY people--of almost all political views! It is SO BASIC. Transparent vote counting. But people first have to get that SOMETHING IS WRONG. And more and more people ARE getting that. Think: a thousand people down at the precinct or at the county election office, calmly insisting on being SHOWN the counting of their votes. And think of that spreading to other precincts, counties and states.

The power to choose voting systems still resides at the state/local level, where ordinary people still have potential influence. There is NO federal law that requires them to use ES&S/Diebold or any other corporate-run machines. It CAN be changed. It will just take sufficient pressure in sufficient jurisdictions to start snowballing.

Please do NOT presume that the Peoples' collective power cannot change things. It CAN. Why do you think the rats ruling over us spend so much money and energy propagandizing us and stealing our elections? They fear us. They really do.

[DeSwiss]

9. My concern is.....

...that any initiative that attempts to demand a verifiable voting system will be met with obfuscation, delays and ultimately the ways and means to counter it. And once that fails, that even when we later seek to vote these suckers out, we'd have to do so with the same crooked voting machines that undermine elections to begin with. Maybe I'm too old and cynical.

But two years ago I told my elected official (State Senator Harper TN-D) that I objected to the E&S system we've used in the past three election cycles and what did she do? She voted for the state legislation which now requires all counties to upgrade to this or a similar type lousy electronic voting systems.

I'm not saying it's impossible to counter this, but the Powers That Be didn't work this hard and spend all that money to get to this point, only to let it get pissed away by citizen campaigns. The fact is, I believe that the whole underlying basis for our society (the capitalistic system) and this rotten government that protects it from us, is on thin ice. And when it that ice breaks, and it will break, voting machines will not be what concerns us. Only where the next meal is coming from.

- But you can count me in on the initiative to get rid of the damned things. You do the talking and I'll use the sledgehammer to break the bastards up......

[Peace Patriot]

17. The blacks in the South faced seemingly INSURMOUNTABLE obstacles to their right to vote.

They were beaten, lynched, imprisoned, required to pay a "poll tax," spat upon, constantly threatened, forced into hard menial jobs that exhausted people, and denied an education then required to pass a literacy test to vote--in addition to the daily humiliation of "white" or "colored" drinking fountains, "white" or "colored" entrances to hospitals and other buildings, and segregation laws in every aspect of their lives. The rich white minority was determined to deny blacks any power in the political system, because they knew that once blacks could vote, they would able to seek equality in other respects, including government services and business, jobs, educational and other improvement opportunities.

I saw this with my own eyes. I joined Martin Luther King's voter registration project in Georgia and Alabama back in 1965. And, believe me, you had to be there to appreciate HOW DIFFICULT IT WAS for blacks to gain the right to vote, and how incredibly courageous all those "ordinary people" were to face that white establishment and peacefully demand it.

The analogy is apt. We are all "niggers" now to our multinational corporate/war profiteer rulers. Our right to vote has been taken away. You don't HAVE a right to vote unless you can witness the counting of your vote in the PUBLIC VENUE--just like you don't HAVE a right to vote if you can't afford the poll tax. It is most certainly going to take a new "civil rights movement" to re-establish our right to vote but it IS doable.

So this argument doesn't wash with me, DeSwiss: "...that any initiative that attempts to demand a verifiable voting system will be met with obfuscation, delays and ultimately the ways and means to counter it."

"Obfuscation," "delays," and other such establishment tricks FALL before a People with courage who are determined to make it so. The methods change. The victims change. But the establishments and their lackeys don't change much, really. And a united community can always overcome them, because WE ARE RIGHT. No official or corporation can be permitted to stand between us and our right to see our voted counted.

I don't understand your suggestion that "the People" will need their own vote rigging machines to insure that those who take power were really elected and to gain elected leaders who really represent us. Time and again, the "will of the people" has been ignored and thwarted in this country. All we need to start reversing that is TRANSPARENT vote counting--a REAL count. It won't solve everything but it is the essential first step.

I took special pains to follow opinion polls during the Bush Junta and I was amazed at what I found that was nowhere reflected in the corpo-fascist media: near 60% majority opposition to the Iraq War (Feb '03, all polls), majority opposition to torture ("under any circumstances") (63%), huge majority opposition to messing with Social Security and more. The People opposed nearly every Bush policy. Yet "somehow" Bush-Cheney got "re-elected."

But what it mainly taught me was that what the People want is far different from what they are portrayed as wanting. We get a FALSE picture of our own fellow and sister citizens from the media. So I believe in them. I believe in democracy. And I believe that TRANSPARENT vote counting will start to change things, all by itself. We have then to wipe out the filthy campaign contribution system and every other obstacle to real democracy. But merely having a honest, verified vote count--that is, trusting the People and giving them a chance to express their true wishes on policy and candidates--will be the beginning of serious reform.

We won't need any rigged machines to oust Pukes and 'Blue Dogs.' That will start right away. And the more good people we get into office, the faster things will change.

That's the theory of democracy. That's its bottom line. That is what we must do.

[Doctor_J]

24. Reality bites

Your contention misses the obvious fact that all repukes think and do whatever hate radio tells them to think and do. Thus your claim that a clean election campaign could involve "of almost all political views!" is false. All of the anti-democracy forces have to do is tell their purveyors of lies & hate to tell the morans that fair voting is "socialist", and within two days all of Glenbeckistan will believe it and shout it.

[Peace Patriot]

26. You think Beck, Limbaugh & the Mad Hatter's Tea Party are reality?

I think that a great deal of loot has gone into convincing you of that.

And, until we have real vote counts, we can't know, really, how many genuine, sane, business-oriented, truly conservative (conserving of resources and peoples' savings and small businesses), fair-minded, civic-minded, old-fashioned Republicans there might be out there, disguised as "independents" or not voting cuz their votes were stolen in 2004 and they've given up. Nor do we know how many very Leftist voters there are out there, tearing their hair out at the lack of choice they've had since, oh, somewhere in the Reagan era (when I heard a CA Dem political consultant say, in private, that "it's time to make money"). (um, context was: abandon Leftist/New Deal policy, fuck the "little guy"). I tend to think that more New Dealers are being created every day from an already BIG New Deal/anti-corporate, anti-war profiteer base that has been there all along. In fact, it's these very folks, whom I believe are the majority, that the 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting system was mostly designed to deal with. This is the majority that opposed the Iraq War in Feb '03 (nearly 60% opposition, all polls). And it is NO ACCIDENT that the $3.9 billion e-voting boondoggle was passed by the Anthrax Congress IN THE SAME MONTH as the Iraq War Resolution.

Let me tell you something very interesting about that statistic. First of all, it was two groups; those who opposed the Iraq War outright (about half) and those who would support the Iraq War only if it was a UN peacekeeping mission (i.e., consensus in the international community that action was necessary--which, of course, never occurred). In order words, this second group, while not opposed to all war, didn't trust Bush. They didn't trust his word. They wanted confirmation from outside--from an objective body (and that did not include the US Senate). Secondly, at the same time that nearly 60% of the American opposed the war, about 55% believed that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11. What this means is that there was a significant percentage of people, more on the rightwing side of things (traditional Republicans?) who still opposed Bush's war, because they must have judged that Saddam Hussein's part in 9/11 was minor and not worth a war--that he wasn't a serious threat. Again, they didn't believe Bush.

When I finally figured out those polls, those particular folks really heartened me. Those heavily propagandized people--people who believed part of what Bush was saying (9/11, WMDs) were desperately trying to think for themselves. Was he lying that it was a significant threat? There was a big contingent that didn't trust Bush at all (wanted the UN to make the decision), another big contingent who remembered Vietnam like it was yesterday (generally anti-war), and an additional group of very brainwashed people who STILL didn't trust Bush--to make up the total of nearly 60%.

I think your view, "that all repukes think and do whatever hate radio tells them to think and do", is wrong--is a product of the power of the media to demoralize you with false portrayals of other Americans, and to slander, marginalize, mis-characterize and "black hole' (ignore) even Republicans. Yes, there is a nazi group. They have always been with us. I remember them way back in 1960 (JFK's campaign). And maybe a few more have been inspired to crawl out of the sewer by the "15 minutes" of fame that the corpo-fascist press is giving them. They are a SMALL MINORITY--always have been, always will be, in this country. I won't go into the Germany 1932 analogy here, but basically the U.S. is NOT Germany 1932. Too big. Too diverse. Too much democracy in living memory plus long tradition of it. And then there's the Internet. The U.S. is a vastly more difficult place to control. That's why the 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines--which they have neglected to require, in any federal law. (That coup was accomplished by corruption--the enticement of the $3.9 billion and highly corrupt lobbying of state/local election officials.) That "window of opportunity" to undo the e-voting system, at the state/local level, remains open.

Again, that the U.S. is NOT Germany 1932 is WHY we have been treated to this highly sophisticated "nail in the coffin of democracy" method of control: 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting. They KNOW what the American people WOULD do, if all our votes were counted in the light of day. And that includes a lot of Republicans who despised Bush and whose votes have also been stolen.

i urge you to examine your premise that "all repukes think alike." I did that, with regard to the war. I was perfectly ready to believe that my fellow and sister Americans had gone over the edge, and were goosestepping to Bush/Cheney. I was surprised to find out otherwise. In the leadup to that war, I really wanted to know what our problem was--how we could be doing that again. And I was even then looking for solutions. If most Americans had become nazis, while I wasn't looking, then the problem was education vs propaganda. I not only found out that it wasn't true--that most people didn't support the war--I had to then figure out HOW their will was being thwarted. And that's what led me to the election system itself, and what was being put in place--'TRADE SECRET' vote counting, with no controls, all over the country, like a plague, during the 2002 to 2004 period--to control a majority that is repulsed by unjust war.

And, of course, 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting has other uses as well--preventing health care reform, looting Social Security. You think "all repukes" think alike--think like Glenn Beck--on Social Security? Think again. Those polls back in the early 2000s showed NINETY PERCENT opposition to Bush messing with Social Security. All the white-haired folks in wheelchairs could get real riled up about that, whatever their politics on other issues, and become the "Wheelchair Brigade" down at the local county registrar's, demanding to see their votes counted in public view. Let some bought-and-paid-for Diebold shill of a county registrar, who mouths hypocrisies about "protecting voters," call the cops on THEM!

----

(edited for typo)

[Peace Patriot]

27. (delete-mistake-hit the wrong key) nt

[alarimer]

28. Yes, we had a "recount" here but since we use electronic machines, there is no paper trail.

And so, no way of knowing when the machine screws up or votes are being stolen. In this case, the recount was just verifying the totals.

[Jackpine Radical]

5. Am I foolishly optimistic to think that people are starting to wake up?

I know I've thought that before and been terribly, tragically wrong.

[CHIMO]

6. Interesting

And quite extensive.

As an outsider, it seems to me like looking at ones belly button.

To me, one first should take Chalmers Johnson and Noam Chomsky into establishing ones objective.

It is a different world from the post World War II era, and if one is to lead it, it should be able to ignite and inspire others to have the same objective.

It would seem that having that, there would be minimal problems.

[glitch]

11. Or Michael Parenti.

"To me, one first should take Chalmers Johnson and Noam Chomsky into establishing ones objective."

[Judi Lynn]

7. The idea of a democratic government has been completely destroyed in our lifetimes.

We've learned upward mobility is simply a myth now, schools have been failing for ages, and now we learn they are being re-segregated, as well.

In the meantime Republicans have completely gutted our infrastructure, and hacked away at the constitution like men/women possessed.

It's good to see your call to consciousness here: moving to know there's someone out there watching, taking it all in, thinking about it day and night, researching, actively working for the change we need so desperately.

We've come too far to allow them to tear our world apart now. What has been done destructively so quickly, can be steadily replaced by a system of real values for real people, and it will take a massive effort. Seeing things get worse than this is almost inconceivable, but that's where we're headed without a coming to life, a resurrection of spirit in our culture.

We've seen a lot of US Americans have handled this hardship very well, have learned to live with less very quickly, very responsibly, without chewing the scenery.

Getting back to basics, like HONEST, true, actual voting looks like the starting place, doesn't it? How can we have a clean government without truthful elections?

Thanks for the reading recommendations, and your thoughts.

[tech9413]

8. I remember your previous post and agree but I think you missed

Our political system still works pretty well but it has been distorted by our predatory capitalist system. The weakness of our political system originally allowed an outrageous concentration of power to financial elites. That weakness is our tendency to think everything is all right if We don't feel any pain. Those elites used that concentration of wealth to further empower themselves and mask their intention.
To quote your post:

"We have to look at the actual mechanisms of power--and of our power as a collective entity: We the People. And we really can't do that if we think that everything is basically okay in the U.S. It is not. The most basic thing of all has now been taken away. Privatized vote counting is both a cause and symptom of everything else. It's my opinion that whatever "deals" went down--and it's pretty clear that something went down--"We the People" were not at that "table." And the main reason we were not there is that we've lost control of the vote counting--our main power and very nearly the definition of our sovereignty. We give power to them, to run the country in our interest. That equation needs to be restored, beginning with vote counting in the PUBLIC venue."

These things did not happen in a vacuum. They occurred over decades where we felt comfortable that those elected representatives or the elite would not overreach. We didn't feel much pain from political policy (at least not right away) or accepted the narrative sold to us by those in power.

Right now both our political and economic systems are both broken. The problem is we don't have the power to fix the political system until we remove the influence of the economic system.

The only solutions my feeble mind can see is to let one of the two fail or make it fail. In either case it will be painful. If it's the economic system we will all lose much of what we worked for over the years. It will be years of trying to re-learn how to fend for yourself or organize a community where you take care of each other. That would be my preferred method.

The other option is the failure of the political system. This is much more frightening to me. Historical precedent suggests moving toward a total authoritarian leadership (doesn't it feel like that to you?) or a more progressive (aka USA circa 1930's) response. I don't think most are accurately informed to make that choice.

I'm not a well studied student of history but much of what I remember shows that political system failure will result in an authoritarian regime that will not be comfortable and could extend itself for far longer than recovery from economic failure would take.

I don't plan to live forever and have no progeny to consider but I wouldn't wish the future on my worst enemy.

[Peace Patriot]

18. You have a pretty passive attitude. THAT's what I'm attacking.

The system has gotten to you--has demoralized, depressed and disempowered you. You feel fateful, that one thing or another "will fail" and maybe we should "let it fail" (as if it was up to us). I think you need to turn that attitude around and gain a more pro-active outlook. People before us have done so--in even more difficult circumstances: blacks in the South with no rights at all, not even the right to vote; the labor movements of the industrialization era; the down and out poor of the Great Depression who put FDR in office; the Indigenous majority in Bolivia, which recently elected Bolivia's first Indigenous president; the Nicaraguans, who recently put the Sandanistas back in power (the revolutionaries whom the Reaganites tried to smash with the illegal Iran/Contra war); the Haitians slaves who freed themselves (the first democracy revolution in Latin America); the MANY leftist democracy movements in Latin America NOW--in Bolivia, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Ecuador, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, Brazil and other countries--there are many many examples!

And I think the Latin American ones, of our era, are the most pertinent, because these very RECENT examples of leftist democratic victories have resulted in a huge, powerful, ECONOMIC revolution for social justice, use of resources like oil to benefit the people, socialist responsibility for everyone, as to education, health care and other bootstrapping of the poor, and the subjection of business interests to the common good.

You need to understand HOW BAD OFF these countries were only a decade ago. They were not just in economic ruin--inflicted mostly by U.S. multinationals in cahoots with the U.S. dominated World Bank/IMF and their own rich fascist elites, but they were oppressed by vicious tyrants supported by the U.S., who tortured and murdered thousands of Leftists. Some of the same Leftists who fought those tyrants--who were imprisoned and tortured--are now the PRESIDENTS of their country. And they and their governments and people are turning things around, dramatically. Venezuela was just designated "the most equal country in Latin America," as to wealth distribution, by the UN Economic Commission. They have cut poverty in half and extreme poverty by more than 70%. All these Leftist countries are all doing well, considering where they started--something you will never see reported in the corpo-fascist press (cuz their billionaire bosses don't want you to know). Socialist controls on capitalism is working--just like it did here during the "New Deal" and for three decades afterward (until Reagan).

Things don't have to fall apart. They don't have to fail. True, we have enormous problems--and some special problems of our own (such as the "military-industrial complex" and its untoward power and looting, and its need for war). But Latin America is demonstrating that big, horrendous problems can be solved and probably the first lesson of their success is TRANSPARENT vote counting. It CAN be done, but we're got to evict the vote rigging machines from our system and restore transparency. Then things are possible. Then things start to change.

Latin Americans have done their civic duty and paid attention to the fundamentals of democracy and it's paying off in a big way. We can elect good leaders. We can recover. But we've got to start with the fundamentals--and there isn't anything more fundamental than our right to vote and to see our votes counted in public.

[DemReadingDU]

20. I'm reading the Shock Doctrine now

Naomi Klein's excellent book. Her book has connected many pieces of history that I'd read here at DU.

[txlibdem]

22. The Senate has to be co-opted as well

After all, the Dems had the largest majority in the Senate, ever. And yet the 40 Republicans managed to corrupt each and every piece of legislation. Wow. They must be SUPERMEN.

[flyarm]

10. K&R excellent!! n/t

[starroute]

12. I keep thinking someone needs to look closely at the FBI

There's been a lot of fluky stuff associated with the FBI since Robert Mueller became director in July 2001, starting with the anthrax attacks, and I keep having the feeling that the roots of it lie in Mueller's role in the BCCI coverup. BCCI is in many ways the template for everything that's been happening since, from Enron to the banking scandals, and Mueller's role then and since deserves a lot more scrutiny than it's ever gotten (or is likely to get when he's up for re-nomination next year.)

Here's something that appeared in Opinion Journal prior to his confirmation.

http://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/msg71516.html

June 26, 2001

BCCI holds important lessons for the future. Our dawning century is one of international criminal gangs operating with increasing sophistication in a shadowy world beyond the control of fragmented national authorities. The banking and political systems are particularly vulnerable to this sort of corruption. BCCI is a prototype for this new form of global crime. . . . Both Mr. Terwilliger and Mr. Mueller were senior Justice Department officials when BCCI got away. Mr. Terwilliger was Deputy Attorney General; and Mr. Mueller ran the Criminal Division at Main Justice from 1990 to 1993. When it came to making decisions about investigations and prosecutions in the BCCI affair they were the men at the switches. Only the Attorney General and the President had higher federal authority. Mr. Terwilliger apparently is off the short list because confirmation would be complicated by his legal work for Mr. Bush in the Florida election dispute.

This means the presumed front-runner is Mr. Mueller, who took personal charge of the BCCI probe. If he is nominated, a number of questions need to be asked. How did BCCI manage to gain entry into the U.S. banking system and acquire First American? Did the U.S. intelligence community grease the skids for BCCI at critical junctures? Was the Justice Department part of the solution to the BCCI mess, or part of the problem?

When Mr. Mueller took over the Criminal Division, critics in Congress and the media were already raising questions about Justice and BCCI. He stepped into this breach, telling the Washington Post in July 1991 that maybe indeed there was an "appearance of, one, foot-dragging; two, perhaps a coverup." He denied the coverup claims, specifically rejecting a Time magazine report that the U.S. government was seeking to obscure its role in the scandal partly because the CIA may have collaborated with the bank's operatives. Perhaps Justice should have been more enthusiastic and aggressive about the case, he told the Post, but "nobody has ever accused me of lacking aggression."

Still, the problems with Justice persisted. And the timing of some of Mr. Mueller's moves raised eyebrows. In September 1991, Justice indicted six BCCI figures and a reputed Colombian drug lord on racketeering charges. The indictment was unveiled just minutes after then-Congressman Charles Schumer issued a report sharply critical of Justice Department handling of the case. As Peter Truell and Larry Gurwin noted in their authoritative book, "False Profits: Inside BCCI," the indictment was merely "warmed-over information from an investigation that had ended nearly two years before."

And here's that Time Magazine article it refers to:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,974560,00.html

It was the ultimate package deal, a grand compromise designed to clean up one of the world's messiest piles of financial wreckage. Bank liquidators, acting on behalf of the moribund Bank of Credit & Commerce International, marched into a crowded Manhattan courtroom last Friday and settled, in one unexpected swoop, all U.S. criminal charges outstanding against B.C.C.I. as a corporation. The bank, which in the U.S. is now essentially just a hollow shell, pleaded guilty to federal and state charges of racketeering, fraud and money laundering. The liquidators agreed to surrender virtually every penny of B.C.C.I.'s assets in the U.S., a total of $550 million, which represents the largest criminal forfeiture in history.

The guilty plea, hammered out during four months of intense negotiations among banking authorities and prosecutors in Washington, London and Luxembourg, was designed in part to impose some order on the worldwide scramble to lay claims to B.C.C.I.'s remaining assets. So far, auditors have found only $1.5 billion in the coffers of a bank that once held $22 billion in deposits. "We felt we could duke it out for years, or we could accommodate each other. I think we found a fair arrangement," says George Terwilliger, the acting Deputy U.S. Attorney General.

Terwilliger is an interesting figure in his own right. He was one of the younger Bush's lawyers during the 2000 recount, which is what disqualified him from the FBI job. He has also been pushing the fake "voter fraud" issue since 1997 and in 2003 co-founded a group called Americans for a Better County (along with Republican operatives Frank Donatelli and Craig Shirley) that was intended to provoke an FEC ruling curtailing the activities of Democratic soft money groups. The last I know of him was in 2007, when he was testifying on behalf of Alberto Gonzales in the US Attorney scandal and then serving as his criminal defense lawyer.

But Mueller has managed to keep well away from that sort of partisan activity and is still very much with us.

[snot]

13. K&R'd

I'm not sure about all the details of your theory; but for some time, I've been unable to conceive any plausible explanation for Dems' failures to respond seriously to the take-over of our media and our elections that does not involve a degree of complicity.

[Swamp Rat]

14. k&r

[Desertrose]

15. The one who owns the votes, owns the power.

If enough of us wake up maybe we can collectively do something about that.

I surely hope so.



K&R.

[immoderate]

16. K&R

--imm

[DemReadingDU]

19. Thanks for reposting

One place to start, is at the local level. We are working in our small village to have our mayor and his crony police chief to resign. We've been at this for year and half. The wheels of justice do turn slowly. But in this time, many more people have become aware of their misdeeds.

Edit: We have become regulars at the local village commission meetings, often speaking and getting write-ups in the local weekly paper.

Just get involved in some way, don't be passive.

[TheUnspeakable]

21. k&r These are the things we should be discussing

instead of "Obama bad" "no, Obama good" of course there's some sort of "deal". I've been thinking lately, since the "Citizens United" case, of a movement to get the money out of elections,something I believe both parties could support (not the politicians, but the people)-public funding-but, with our brains being constantly bombarded, everyday, with all the news and propaganda, somehow I forgot about the damn machines! In 2004-2006 I was passionate about it -the 2004 election was what brought me to DU-and I just sort of "forgot" -wow. Your point about focusing on our community is so right.
And thanks for your theory on Iran-it makes so much sense-it was always sort of niggling at a corner of my brain-what ever happened with that? David Kelly, Brewster Jennings , Libby , Poppy Bush's ISG
etc...

[Mnemosyne]

23. Citizen's apathy has been one of our biggest fights, the increase in suffering from

recent decisions by our critters may be very helpful in ending it. How much more are they going to be willing to take before standing up is the unanswered question.

Thanks Peace! :hi:

[Peace Patriot]

29. Citizen apathy is mostly induced by stolen and manipulated elections, so that--

--no matter how hard we work (get out the vote, gather donations, etc.), we lose, one way or another--either lose elections we should have won, or suffer betrayal by those whom we believed in--and if you go through that often enough, it can get to you.

The corpo-fascist media is a also a weapon for demoralization. I think it's quite conscious and deliberate--a uniform false portrayal both of our people and of what our government actually is and who is controlling it. If, every time you turn on the TV or radio, you hear rightwing rants, and slimy lies and deceptions, you start feeling isolated and alone, and you start thinking that OTHER Americans are nuts. So why try to change things?

This was never more evident than with the Iraq War--nearly 60% of Americans opposed it (Feb '03, all polls)--and Bush-Cheney 2004, who were NOT re-elected, and in truth COULD NOT HAVE BEEN re-elected, considering what the issue polls had been saying --nearly 60% against the war, 63% against torture "under any circumstances," something like 90% against Bush messing with Social Security and on and on.

It's really no wonder that a lot of people feel depressed, powerless and "apathetic." They've been convinced that they can do nothing.

But that is not true. It is not true now and it never has been true, historically, with anti-slavery, civil rights, voting rights, labor rights and other social/political movements facing very great odds, often including brutal oppression.

We are suffering a pervasive system of propaganda and control that seems overwhelming. In that situation, we must help people focus on practical, strategic goals that will materially help us restore our democracy. My pick for priority no. 1 is the 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines, with the code owned and controlled largely (80%) by one, private, far rightwing-connected corporation--ES&S, which just bought out Diebold (aka Premier)--and for which there are virtually no audit/recount controls. These were spread like a plague across our country, to every state, during the 2002 to 2004 period, and they represent the final control mechanism over who gets elected. This situation--corporate-controlled vote counting--must be reversed, or we really don't have a democracy and we will never have serious reform. Getting rid of these machines could be the beginning of a very big democracy movement here. It is a DOABLE campaign--there is NO federal law requiring these machines. Choice of voting systems still resides at the state/local level.

Corporations have NO PLACE standing between us and the public counting of our votes. They have no right to be there. They need to be evicted. And until we do that, no public official in this country can prove that he or she was elected. That is wildly, outrageously anti-democratic, and quite deliberately designed for corporate control of our government leaders and demoralization of the rest of us.

Transparent vote counting is essential to being able to elect good people and to keeping them accountable to us. Currently, our leaders seem to care not at all what we think. And why should they, with ES&S 'counting' all the votes? That makes them care what the far rightwing billionaires think (like the one who funded ES&S--Howard Ahmanson, who also supported extremist 'christian' nutballs).

Being able to trust the vote count is also essential to defeating "citizen apathy." Latin Americans are enjoying a leftist democracy revolution right now, and at the heart of it is transparent, honest, aboveboard elections--something that Latin Americans have been working to achieve for some time. The People know that they can trust the vote count, that they can win and that they can throw out leaders who don't listen. Citizen participation has thus become worth it. Brazil, Venezuela, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Uruguay, Paraguay and other Latin American countries now have vibrant democracies, with governments committed to social justice and serving the People. And they have worse media than we do, believe me. The vote count is everything. That's where the Peoples' power actually resides.

If they can do it, so can we. But we do need to be practical and strategic. Where is our power as a People? It's in the vote. And where are the votes? They are blips on a computer screen run on 'TRADE SECRET' code--code that we are FORBIDDEN to review. Once we remedy that, and restore vote counting to the PUBLIC venue, we will start seeing a reversal of the depression and apathy that currently plague many people. People who don't let themselves get depressed and apathetic--who see the big picture--need to spark this movement and give others not just hope but something they can DO, to materially change the power structure.

[robertpaulsen]

25. K & R! Will comment tomorrow.

:kick:

[OneGrassRoot]

30. Huge K&R! Thank you. :) n/t

[immune]

31. Are you familiar with the Collier brothers?

"Now we understand why things have gone so terribly wrong in this country. It's due to the corrupted vote. It is the stolen vote that perpetuates corrupt city, state and federal governments. When those corrupt power brokers in your town weed out that up-and-coming politician, they are looking for a person who is willing to `play ball.' Politics is `playing ball.' Suddenly you find property decisions going against nature; land and water needed for the perpetuation of life on our earth suddenly disappear. A handful of developers get richer while the land, and the quality of life, get poorer."
--Votescam (published 1992)

Jim and Ken both died young during the 90's, as heroes to many thousands who read their book and heard them speak on the radio and at political meetings across the country. They helped to guide individuals and groups working for clean elections in their communities -- some of them fighting against the first wave of computerized voting machines.

The Collier's last hope was that Votescam would be used as evidence in a serious Congressional investigation into election fraud, if we should ever see the day. Many people still in power have yet to be held accountable for their role in aiding and abetting vote fraud.

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/BHoCEFiA.html

[howaboutme]

32. Three suggestions to give us back democracy.

1. Accountability - hold politicians and all officials who have taken an oath to a much higher standard of ethical behavior than the general public. We must demand that our officials never again make inside back room deals to take impeachment off the table before the facts are on the table.

2. Honest voting - Throw away the black boxes and instead use purple ink and paper ballots and make sure voters are eligible to vote. Accuracy and an audit trail is more important than is speed in picking a winner.

3. Remove Money - We need to remove the money and go to a system of totally public funded elections that with a caveat that candidates can use as many volunteers as they can muster to spread their message but no money. We need to eliminate advantages by the ultra rich.

The MSM will work against the people. They are all for speedy election results and lots of eyeballs on election night, and more money in political advertising, so they will attempt to keep the status quo, which is likely how we got in this position.

[robertpaulsen]

33. The pertinent thread question seems to be - How do WE initiate the CHANGE we need?

"We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek."
-http://www.barackobama.com/2008/02/05/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_46.php">Senator Barack Obama, February 5, 2008

I wonder if he realized as he was saying those words how right he was. President Obama is a prisoner of a system beyond his power to control, and you've done a wonderful job of detailing some of the ways in which his hands have been tied. I also believe that some of the other posters on this thread are correct that in addition to the political corruption endemic to this system that does not represent the will of the people, there is the equally undemocratic economic system through which the http://americanjudas.blogspot.com/2010/01/proposition-constitutional-amendment-to.html">Citizens United decision that corrupted this http://americanjudas.blogspot.com/2010/11/dr-strangecorp-or-how-aclu-learned-to.html">latest election debacle would not have been possible. Until you change the way money works, you change nothing. The two corrupt systems go hand in hand, so both must be addressed if we are to truly be the change we seek.

But how? Take what I have to say with a grain of salt. I've no experience as a community organizer, just a student of history and researcher of government corruption. There must be a sustained movement that can encompass a broad range of issues around a single theme: transparency. Within that theme, you can incorporate privatized vote counting. You can incorporate the Citizens United ruling; both the lack of transparency in the US Chamber of Commerce donors and the larger issue of corporate personhood. You could even incorporate the entire National Security State covert operations apparatus. It all ties together under the theme of transparency. The key is to sustain the theme while transitioning in focus from one issue to the next.

Looking back in history, Martin Luther King was able to successfully transition a broad-based movement from Civil Rights to Poor People's Campaign under the theme of justice. I sincerely believe that it was this successful transition, from social equality to economic equality, combined with his fierce opposition to the Vietnam War that led to his assassination. While it certainly helps to have a magnetic personality galvanize support for a broad-based populist movement, we need multiple magnetic figures to spearhead any such movement now so that assassination will not be an option for TPTB to curtail such a movement. I'm not sure what would be the best tactical approach to build this force. I love the approach of the Bonus Army March of 1932: a nation-wide movement camped out in DC demanding justice. True, the military did invade and forcefully destroyed the encampments (would they dare such a repeat with 24/7 cable news coverage?) but ultimately their perseverance was instrumental in the passage of the GI Bill of Rights.

Anyway, just some possible ideas I have around this subject. Thank you so much, Peace Patriot, for creating these threads to address this necessity. WE MUST COME TOGETHER AS A PEOPLE, AND WE MUST ACT!