Calling Bush a Liar

[papau]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/30/opinion/30KRIS.html

Calling Bush a Liar
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

So is President Bush a liar?

Plenty of Americans think so. Bookshops are filled with titles about Mr. Bush like "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them," "Big Lies," "Thieves in High Places" and "The Lies of George W. Bush."

A consensus is emerging on the left that Mr. Bush is fundamentally dishonest, perhaps even evil — a nut, yes, but mostly a liar and a schemer. That view is at the heart of Michael Moore's scathing new documentary, "Farenheit 9/11."<snip>

In fact, of course, Mr. Bush did stretch the truth. The run-up to Iraq was all about exaggerations, but not flat-out lies. Indeed, there's some evidence that Mr. Bush carefully avoids the most blatant lies — witness his meticulous descriptions of the periods in which he did not use illegal drugs.

True, Mr. Bush boasted that he doesn't normally read newspaper articles, when his wife said he does. And Mr. Bush wrongly claimed that he was watching on television on the morning of 9/11 as the first airplane hit the World Trade Center. But considering the odd things the president often says ("I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family"), Mr. Bush always has available a prima facie defense of confusion. <snip>

[struggle4progress]

1. Mr. Kristof really seems to be a very nice man.

After reading his op-ed, I suggest you read the editorial on the opposite page

Abu Ghraib, Stonewalled
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x59672

and then reread Mr. Kristof's very well-intentioned appeal for civility, noting the tidy nuances he seeks between "exaggerations" and "flat-out lies."

Of course, there is some advantage in keeping the national discourse pleasant. There may also, however, be real patriotism in a decision not to smile sweetly forever in the face of blatant nonsense.

[checks-n-balances]

2. Maybe GWB didn't start out wanting to lie about anything, but the company

he keeps has a very bad habit of it.

He may not LITERALLY "lie", but he misleads plenty with slippery word play and verbal sleight of hand. I bet he was tutored in that by Karl Rove, the master.

Besides, when you have a family history of crony capitalism and conflicts of interest between government and personal finances, you're bound to rely on some form of lying just to cover it up/cover your own ass.

One way or another, he can't help himself.

Who knows, Kristof may technically be correct, but only if he takes the word "lie" at literal face value.

[gristy]

7. Bush does "literally" lie

Dictionary definition:

lie n.
1. A false statement or piece of information deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Anything meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

[Catfight]

3. It's real simple, if it's not the truth, reality, then it's a lie...Bush

is all about black and white, evil and good...lies and truth. I'm not giving him one inch...he's a liar...in the words of Cheney, a F'n LIAR!

[sbreen]

4. bush

I think bush uses all this talk about lies and "stupidity"...especially with regard to his speaking skills...to his advantage...its earier when everyone thinks your an idiot adn can sometimes underestimate

[alarcojon]

8. or "misunderestimate"!

Welcome to DU! B-)

[Memekiller]

5. My letter to Kristof...

As the founder of the site www.whoslying.org, I think I can add something to this debate. I, too, have felt reluctant to use the loaded ‘L’ word, and I never know whether it’s fair to call Bush dishonest when his administration repeatedly manipulates data in government reports < http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=428 > < http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=452 > < http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=487 >, or accidentally makes typos that conveniently make scientific studies say the opposite of what the data does < http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=132&Itemid=26 > < http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=519 >, or just out an out fabricates evidence < http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=513 >.



Admittedly, whether he lied or not is a bit of an existential question. Perhaps Bush was merely ignorant when he claimed troop strength was decreasing in Afghanistan. < http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=37 > or when he said we went to War because Hussein wouldn’t let UN inspectors in < http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=23 >. Perhaps he made the same “misstatement” again because he doesn’t read the newspaper. < http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=361 >. Perhaps he was simply deluded when he claimed we found the WMD < http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=3 > and then that he never said they had any < http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=4 >. Maybe he’s deluded now when he claims we entered Iraq because he refused to “disarm”, as he did a few days ago. < http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/06/20040625-2.html >



Or, maybe he knows he can always count on guys like you to couch these mistakes in pretty euphemisms. When it comes down to it, I don’t really care. All I care about is the fact that the things that escape Bush’s mouth so rarely represent the truth. His well intentioned slip-ups have a majority still believing Hussein was behind 9/11. Maybe if we started holding him accountable every time he says something that isn’t true he’d start being a little more careful.



You have to decide what’s more important: being “objective”? Or telling your readers the truth?

[Martin Eden]

9. GREAT LETTER!!!

And thanks for the links!!!

Bush deserves to be criticized in the harshest terms for the disastrous effects of his lies -- and if he doesn't realize the mendacity of the things that escape his mouth, then he lacks the mental capacity to lead a small oil company -- let alone the most powerful nation on earth.

I'm still flabbergasted that he was allowed to get away with -- twice -- saying Saddam wouldn't let the inspectors in. This is my favorite commentary on that subject:
http://www.arabnews.com/services/print/print.asp?artid=30536&d=19&m=8&y=2003&hl=Idiot%20or%20Liar?%20Either%20Way,%20Bush%20Is%20Unfit%20for%20Office

[depakid]

6. What a sniveler

I've long thought that something wasn't quite right about Kristof, but I never had any reason to question his integrity.

Now I do. It's obvious that he's just another Republican shill.

[Uzybone]

10. I am so sick of "liberals" like Kristoff

who fear to speak the truth. Does Kristoff not know what the hell is at stake here. The time for being polite and not calling a fucking liar a liar passed a long time ago.

Wake up Kristoff!!! this isn't a sex scandal or something. People are being killed and maimed over Bush's' lies. Instead he sits back and lectures us on the left on how to be civil.

[Jade Fox]

11. Nice middle-class folks like Kristof don't think its proper to....

call a spade a spade. People don't lie, they exaggerate and stretch the
truth. In other words, they mean well so don't get all mad at them.

Bull. As it says in the dictionary definition posted above, when your
intention is to deceive, you are LYING.

[hansolsen]

12. See related thread. Here is the link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x59787

I was so mad I posted three entries in his on-line forum. There over three hundred other posts in just one day, 90% of them telling Kristof where to go.