SBV-Gate: The File??? Send me links & I'll do one.

[skip fox]

Someone want to start a SBV file? Or . . . if you'll channel me more links and stories I'll try to mount and
organize. I'm pretty decent at it and used to maintain the Harkengate, Halliburton, Follow-the-FISA files and
others, all parked in Editorials and many were cross linked by many liberal sites and blogs. It's a way of bringing
it all together for ourselves AND any journalists snooping about.



Here are three stories in the last two days with three more vets WHO WERE ACTUALLY THERE
at the events they described (what a concept!):

1.) William Rood:

<Snip>

The commander of a Navy swift boat who served alongside Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry
during the Vietnam War stepped forward Saturday to dispute attacks challenging Kerry's integrity and war record.

William Rood, an editor on the Chicago Tribune's metropolitan desk, said he broke 35 years of silence about
the Feb. 28, 1969, mission that resulted in Kerry's receiving a Silver Star because recent portrayals of Kerry's
actions published in the best-selling book "Unfit for Command" are wrong and smear the reputations of veterans
who served with Kerry.

Rood, who commanded one of three swift boats during that 1969 mission, said Kerry came under rocket
and automatic weapons fire from Viet Cong forces and that Kerry devised an aggressive attack strategy that was
praised by their superiors. He called allegations that Kerry's accomplishments were "overblown" untrue.

. . .

Rood's recollection of what happened on that day at the southern tip of South Vietnam was backed by key
military documents, including his citation for a Bronze Star he earned in the battle and a glowing after-action
report written by the Navy captain who commanded his and Kerry's task force, who is now a critic of the
Democratic candidate.

<snip>


http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/082204Y.shtml






2.) Robert Lambert:

<snip>

Three Navy men won Bronze Stars for their actions that day: Kerry, Thurlow, and radarman first
class Robert Eugene Lambert, a petty officer in the boat captained by Thurlow. The citation for
Lambert's Bronze Star--previously undisclosed but obtained today under the Freedom of
Information Act from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis--repeats the description
of the incident included in the citation for Thurlow's Bronze Star: "all units came under small arms
and automatic weapons fire from the river banks."

. . .

The difference was that Kerry, who had tactical command of that particular operation, had talked to Droz and
me beforehand about not responding the way the boats usually did to an ambush. We agreed that if we were not
crippled by the initial volley and had a clear fix on the location of the ambush, we would turn directly into it,
focusing the boats' twin .50-caliber machine guns on the attackers and beaching the boats. We told our crews
about the plan.

. . .

The first time we took fire--the usual rockets and automatic weapons--Kerry ordered a "turn 90" and the three
boats roared in on the ambush. It worked. We routed the ambush, killing three of the attackers. The troops, led
by an Army adviser, jumped off the boats and began a sweep, which killed another half dozen VC, wounded or
captured others and found weapons, blast masks and other supplies used to stage ambushes.

. . .

We called Droz's boat up to assist us, and Kerry, followed by one member of his crew, site. Some who were
there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer
with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise.


<snip>

http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=1692





3.) Pat Runyon

<snip>

Trotwood, Ohio - An Ohio factory worker who was with John Kerry on a dangerous night mission 36 years
ago in Vietnam said he has no doubt Kerry was grazed in a firefight and deserves his first Purple Heart for a
combat injury.

. . .

Runyon said Kerry was wounded after one vessel (sanpan) tried to avoid an inspection.

"Lt. Kerry said, 'I'm going to pop a flare, and when I do, I want that engine started,' " Runyon said. But the
outboard would not crank. Meanwhile, the sampan's crew steered it to the riverbank, and people started running
on the shore. Runyon said shooting broke out.

Somehow, Kerry's weapon stopped firing. Runyon thinks he ran out of ammunition. He said Kerry bent down to
pick up another gun and got hit in the arm.

"It wasn't a serious wound," Runyon said, and Kerry was able to start shooting again. When the firefight was
over, Runyon said Kerry told him all he felt was a "burning sensation."


<snip>

http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/isele/109265584379530.xml?isele


Ideally, such a file would have stories about potential collusion of Bush campaign and SBV like the following:


<snip>

How the group came into existence is a story of how veterans with longstanding anger about Mr. Kerry's antiwar statements in the early 1970's allied themselves with Texas Republicans.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html



and:

<snip>

"A series of interviews and a review of documents show a web of connections to the Bush family,
high-profile Texas political figures and President Bush's chief political aide, Karl Rove," the Times reported.
"Several of those now declaring Mr. Kerry 'unfit' had lavished praise on him, some as recently as last year.
The story appeared in the Times a day after Kerry fought back against the veterans' allegations, accusing
Bush of using a Republican front group "to do his dirty work" and challenging Bush to debate their wartime
service records. "Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: Bring
it on," said the Democratic presidential candidate, reviving an old war and campaign slogan amid strong
urging from party leaders for him to respond to two-week-old GOP assertions.

<snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5771731/



<snip>

WASHINGTON, Aug. 20 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Public records reveal that two of the people in the new "Swift Boat
Veterans for Bush" television ad are Republican activists, as the fact sheet below shows. This is just more proof
that Bush's Republican allies are the ones behind this disgraceful smear of John Kerry (news -web sites)'s military
record. It's pretty clear what's going on here. It's no wonder the Bush campaign refuses to condemn this smear.


<snip>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=669&ncid=669&e=2&u=/usnw/20040820/pl_usnw/more_republican_ties_revealed_behind__swift_boat_vets_for_bush___says_kerry_campaign141_xml




<snip>

"Bush Campaign Caught Promoting "Swift Boat Vets for Truth" While National Campaign Denies Coordination,
Campaign in Florida Promotes Rally

Tallahassee -- On the same day that the Bush-Cheney campaign repeatedly denied coordinating attacks with the
anti-Kerry group "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," the Bush-Cheney campaign in Florida was caught promoting
a rally in Gainesville for the group

<snip>

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_08_15_atrios_archive.html#109303885084378264


And the Bush campaign even had a rally with the SBVs!!!!



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x646015

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040821/LOCAL/40821006/1078/news&template=printart


Or even the right-wing affiliations of those making the charges including Oneill's with Nixon WH and such items
as these:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x647917

AND . . . this just in:

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_9865.shtml


This site takes the SBV's story apart, wingnut by wingnut:

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/

[skip fox]

1. Already evolving . . . Please send links to stories.

Let's make this another good DU resource!




1. Introd.

Overall story:

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9455159.htm



Kerry's official take:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4439188,00.html



Best job of debunking the SBVs for "truth" wingnut-by-wingunt:

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/



2. Recent accounts (last 3 days) of Swift Boat Vets who were actually THERE! (What a concept):



1.) William Rood:

<Snip>

The commander of a Navy swift boat who served alongside Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry
during the Vietnam War stepped forward Saturday to dispute attacks challenging Kerry's integrity and war record.

William Rood, an editor on the Chicago Tribune's metropolitan desk, said he broke 35 years of silence about
the Feb. 28, 1969, mission that resulted in Kerry's receiving a Silver Star because recent portrayals of Kerry's
actions published in the best-selling book "Unfit for Command" are wrong and smear the reputations of veterans
who served with Kerry.

Rood, who commanded one of three swift boats during that 1969 mission, said Kerry came under rocket
and automatic weapons fire from Viet Cong forces and that Kerry devised an aggressive attack strategy that was
praised by their superiors. He called allegations that Kerry's accomplishments were "overblown" untrue.

. . .

Rood's recollection of what happened on that day at the southern tip of South Vietnam was backed by key
military documents, including his citation for a Bronze Star he earned in the battle and a glowing after-action
report written by the Navy captain who commanded his and Kerry's task force, who is now a critic of the
Democratic candidate.

<snip>


http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/082204Y.shtml






2.) Robert Lambert:

<snip>

Three Navy men won Bronze Stars for their actions that day: Kerry, Thurlow, and radarman first
class Robert Eugene Lambert, a petty officer in the boat captained by Thurlow. The citation for
Lambert's Bronze Star--previously undisclosed but obtained today under the Freedom of
Information Act from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis--repeats the description
of the incident included in the citation for Thurlow's Bronze Star: "all units came under small arms
and automatic weapons fire from the river banks."

. . .

The difference was that Kerry, who had tactical command of that particular operation, had talked to Droz and
me beforehand about not responding the way the boats usually did to an ambush. We agreed that if we were not
crippled by the initial volley and had a clear fix on the location of the ambush, we would turn directly into it,
focusing the boats' twin .50-caliber machine guns on the attackers and beaching the boats. We told our crews
about the plan.

. . .

The first time we took fire--the usual rockets and automatic weapons--Kerry ordered a "turn 90" and the three
boats roared in on the ambush. It worked. We routed the ambush, killing three of the attackers. The troops, led
by an Army adviser, jumped off the boats and began a sweep, which killed another half dozen VC, wounded or
captured others and found weapons, blast masks and other supplies used to stage ambushes.

. . .

We called Droz's boat up to assist us, and Kerry, followed by one member of his crew, site. Some who were
there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer
with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise.


<snip>

http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=1692





3.) Pat Runyon

<snip>

Trotwood, Ohio - An Ohio factory worker who was with John Kerry on a dangerous night mission 36 years
ago in Vietnam said he has no doubt Kerry was grazed in a firefight and deserves his first Purple Heart for a
combat injury.

. . .

Runyon said Kerry was wounded after one vessel (sanpan) tried to avoid an inspection.

"Lt. Kerry said, 'I'm going to pop a flare, and when I do, I want that engine started,' " Runyon said. But the
outboard would not crank. Meanwhile, the sampan's crew steered it to the riverbank, and people started running
on the shore. Runyon said shooting broke out.

Somehow, Kerry's weapon stopped firing. Runyon thinks he ran out of ammunition. He said Kerry bent down to
pick up another gun and got hit in the arm.

"It wasn't a serious wound," Runyon said, and Kerry was able to start shooting again. When the firefight was
over, Runyon said Kerry told him all he felt was a "burning sensation."


<snip>

http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/isele/109265584379530.xml?isele



3. SBV-for "truth" and Republican collusion:

A shema/graph noting basic associations (and some contradictions):

http://nytimes.com/imagepages/2004/08/19/politics/campaign/20040820_SWIFT_GRAPH.html


<snip>

How the group came into existence is a story of how veterans with longstanding anger about Mr. Kerry's antiwar statements in the early 1970's allied themselves with Texas Republicans.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html





and:

<snip>

"A series of interviews and a review of documents show a web of connections to the Bush family,
high-profile Texas political figures and President Bush's chief political aide, Karl Rove," the Times reported.
"Several of those now declaring Mr. Kerry 'unfit' had lavished praise on him, some as recently as last year.
The story appeared in the Times a day after Kerry fought back against the veterans' allegations, accusing
Bush of using a Republican front group "to do his dirty work" and challenging Bush to debate their wartime
service records. "Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: Bring
it on," said the Democratic presidential candidate, reviving an old war and campaign slogan amid strong
urging from party leaders for him to respond to two-week-old GOP assertions.

<snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5771731/



<snip>

WASHINGTON, Aug. 20 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Public records reveal that two of the people in the new "Swift Boat
Veterans for Bush" television ad are Republican activists, as the fact sheet below shows. This is just more proof
that Bush's Republican allies are the ones behind this disgraceful smear of John Kerry (news -web sites)'s military
record. It's pretty clear what's going on here. It's no wonder the Bush campaign refuses to condemn this smear.


<snip>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=669&ncid=669&e=2&u=/usnw/20040820/pl_usnw/more_republican_ties_revealed_behind__swift_boat_vets_for_bush___says_kerry_campaign141_xml




<snip>

"Bush Campaign Caught Promoting "Swift Boat Vets for Truth" While National Campaign Denies Coordination,
Campaign in Florida Promotes Rally

Tallahassee -- On the same day that the Bush-Cheney campaign repeatedly denied coordinating attacks with the
anti-Kerry group "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," the Bush-Cheney campaign in Florida was caught promoting
a rally in Gainesville for the group

<snip>

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_08_15_atrios_archive.html#109303885084378264


And the Bush campaign even had a rally with the SBVs!!!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4439188,00.html

and DU's fine posts and members . . . on the job with cameras!!:



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x646015

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040821/LOCAL/40821006/1078/news&template=printart


Or even the right-wing affiliations of those making the charges including Oneill's with Nixon WH and such items
as these:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x647917

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=647199&mesg_id=647199

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_9865.shtml

[WilliamPitt]

2. Snag my sig link

if you want it.

[skip fox]

3. I WILL do this file unless another exists, but

since I have a major seminar this semester I may be a little slow.

So if people will be so kind as to provide (as Will Pitt did) all possibily useful links. I'll sift, organize, and annotate (largely with <snips> to make the file as easy and useful as possible. (Fpr people who are aware of such things, I'll do it as a bibliography of bibliographies. Dig?)

[Junkdrawer]

4. Hey Skip:

A couple of us over at GD 2004 started a research thread that Skinner picked up on and turned into a major effort. We're detailing all OFFICIAL Republican party sites that link, promote, and fund raise for the swift boat vets.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=649597&mesg_id=649597

[skip fox]

6. Great! I see what you're (& Skinner's) doing and won't

be stepping on your toes. It will be a great compilation to cite when finished and to link in progress.!!

Fantastic idea.

[74dodgedart]

5. Swiftboat Vet admits he wasn't there

Alfred French (Repub prosecutor from OR), who appears on the SBVT ad,
admits he didn't witness events and is relying on friend's account.

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/front_page/109300303292321.xml? oregonian?fpfp

[BurtWorm]

7. WP's Michael Dobbs discusses his reporting on the subject on-line

http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/04/politics_dobbs082304.htm

Including these two interesting exchanges:

Gambrills, Md.: I find it incredibly hard to believe that Thurlow did not know that his citation for the Bronze Star, arising out of the very same incident, indicated that the flotilla was under enemy fire. If you are awarded a great honor while serving your country, you are not going to "forget" why you received that recognition. Given that Thurlow is making a lot of money from his claims against Senator Kerry, and given that Thurlow refused to release his military records, it sure looks like Thurlow is being purposefully deceptive.

Michael Dobbs: You seem to be referring to an article I wrote last Friday saying that the Bronze star citation for Larry Thurlow talks about him being under "military fire." Thurlow is certainly having some difficulty explaining why he accepted a medal for "bravery under fire" when he now claims he wasn't under fire. All this was established as a result of the Post's investigation into the facts.

_______________________

Arlington, Va.: What is you analysis of the Kerry campaign's response? Did they wait too long to mount a strong response to these ads? Polls seem to indicate that the ads have had a negative affect.

Michael Dobbs: I am not a campaign tactician. But if Kerry has nothing to hide, it would seem to me obvious that his campaign should put everything out there. It is mystifying to me why they should fail to cooperate fully with my requests for information. (I should say that they did help me get in touch with a number of Kerry's former crew members, just as the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth helped me contact some of his accusers.)

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

8. Here are some, hopefully none dupes:

Rood's (Chicago Tribune editor) first person account of Swift Boat events, disproving the smear artists:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/specials/elections/chi-040821rood,1,1611037.story?coll=chi-news-hed

NYT article on Rood coming forward:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/22/politics/campaign/22swift.html

Thurlow's Bronze Star citation notes enemy fire on all boats, contradicting his own statements:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13267-2004Aug18.html

Ken Cordier was on Bush campaign staff right up until his appearance in the second Swift Boat commercial, proving that Bush campaign denials of connection with the smear campaign are disingenuous (long word for "lies"):

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/21/edwards.swiftboat/index.html

Op-Ed rather than "straight news": Oliphant points out that the Swiftie "charges" are without substance or proof, and that only a media with poor journalistic standards would give such a hearing to these charges. I.E. the smear campaign could never have really gotten off the ground but for unprincipled broadcast news treating it as a "he said/he said" situation rather than people without evidence challenging a documented service record.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/08/22/smear_by_veterans_may_hurt_bush/

[skip fox]

9. Great!! Both above posts are helpful . . . Don't worry about dupes.

I'll sift thru it all and weed out. (Once-upon-a-life I was a bibliographer.)

Keep them coming please!

[skip fox]

10. More links to SBV stories!!

Hope to devote several hours to this file tommorrow so PLEASE help and send links!

[Junkdrawer]

11. Skip: I'm interested in the history. When did they form?...

How long has this been planned? How did the media frenzy begin? etc. etc.

The first CNN article I found was from June 2nd...

Anti-Kerry veterans group protests ad
Some featured in biographical spot
Wednesday, June 2, 2004 Posted: 7:52 AM EDT (1152 GMT)

(CNN) -- A group of Vietnam veterans opposed to John Kerry's presidential campaign demanded Tuesday that he remove a photograph that appears in one of his television advertisements.

In Tuesday's "cease and desist" letter, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth called on Kerry's campaign to stop what it said was the unauthorized use of the images of some of them in a 60-second biographical spot titled "Lifetime." The ad began running nationwide in early May.
...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/01/kerry.ad/


Their website claims they formed May 4th...

http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/article.php?story=2004070119350511

[Stargleamer]

12. This guy, Jim Russell, seems to have been there...

and witnessed Kerry's actions.

Link: <http://www.telluridegateway.com/articles/2004/08/20/news/opinion/opinion01.txt>

"Three things that are forever pictured in my mind since that day over 30 years ago are. . . .(3) A few minutes later, John Kerry bending over his boat picking up one of the rangers that we were ferrying from out of the water".

Good Luck, it is so irritating that Kerry is losing support among veterans based on such mean-spirited deception.

[HuckleB]

13. kick

[wicket]

14. kick!

:kick:

[Moderator]

15. Locking as superseded.

New postings can be made in this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x69570