Swift Boat Veterans for the "Truth": The File (3 Sept.)

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Swift Boat Veterans for the "Truth": The File




Table of Contents:

I. Introduction and History of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (hereafter SBVT)

II. Recent Accounts of Other Swift Boat Vets and Others
--a. Vets Who Were Actually with Kerry Contradicting the SBVT
--b. People with Special Information Contradicting SBVT
--c. New Vets Contradicting Kerry

III. New Charges Against Kerry About his Service

IV. Changes or Qualifications in Stories of individual SBVT

V. Points of Collusion Between Republicans and the SBVT



Each section posted in subsequent (reply) posts for ease of use. For ease of use,
1st post includes table of contents only.

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1. I. Introduction and History of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth:

I. Introduction and History of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth:

Overall story:

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9455159.htm


History of SBVT:

Website registered April 14, 2004. The following is a good historical
overview of their history with hot links. Great site!:

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth#History



The entire overview of SBVT from same site:

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth



On Hannity and Colmes, 23 Aug. Paul Galanti, a former Viet Nam POW
and author of upcoming anti-Kerry book, said that he was at a meeting "last
month" where he "heard" about Kerry from "Kerry's fellow officers."
Were they flying vets in (Swift boat vets, first, then POWs) and letting
O'Neill pump them full of his twisted obsessions, including the story of
"Kerry's master plan" (i.e., to launch himself into politics and the public
eye thru service in Vietnam and then public renunciations of that service)?
If we inquire into their methodologies of recruitment and forms of
internal propaganda and pressure, we might find out quite a bit that would
be damaging. (Just to show the coordination of a few men roping in and
trying to brainwash others would be damaging because it would focus
on the basic contrivance and manipulation practiced by their organization.

DU's own Junkdrawer has noted how the initial post of a FreeRepublic
thread might be terribly useful as background (dates, boats, names of crews,
actions, metals &c.):

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1080011/posts?page=1,50



Kerry's official take on the SBVT:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4439188,00.html



Best job of debunking the SBVT, wingnut-by-wingunt:

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/

and

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/othersbvlies.htm#OTHERSBV

Informational:

http://www.swiftboatliars.com/

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2. II. Recent Accounts of Other Swift Boat Vets and Others

II. Recent Accounts of Other Swift Boat Vets and Others


A. Vets who were actually THERE (what a concept!) and support Kerry . . .

A number of Kerry's crewmates--David Alston, Mike Medeiros, Del Sandusky
and Gene Thorson–have long been on record about Kerry's metals and heroism
and will be feature in the up-coming film about Kerry's service titled "Brothers in
Arms":

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/08/23/politics2057EDT0728.DTL

but within the past week a number of new supporters, men who were actually
with Kerry at the time of the incidents, have come forward:



1.) William Rood:

<Snip>


The first time we took fire--the usual rockets and automatic weapons--
Kerry ordered a "turn 90" and the three boats roared in on the ambush. It
worked. We routed the ambush, killing three of the attackers. The troops,
led by an Army adviser, jumped off the boats and began a sweep, which
killed another half dozen VC, wounded or captured others and found
weapons, blast masks and other supplies used to stage ambushes.

. . .

It happened again, another ambush. And again, Kerry ordered the turn
maneuver, and again it worked. As we headed for the riverbank, I remember
seeing a loaded B-40 launcher pointed at the boats. It wasn't fired as two
men jumped up from their spider holes.

We called Droz's boat up to assist us, and Kerry, followed
by one member of his crew, jumped ashore and chased a VC
behind a hooch--a thatched hut--maybe 15 yards inland from the
ambush site. Some who were there that day recall the man being
wounded as he ran. . . .

. . .

Not long after that, Kerry returned, reporting that he had killed
the man he chased behind the hooch. He also had picked up a loaded
B-40 rocket launcher, which we took back to our base in An Thoi
after the operation.

John O'Neill, author of a highly critical account of Kerry's Vietnam service,
describes the man Kerry chased as a "teenager" in a "loincloth."
I have no idea how old the gunner Kerry chased that day was, but both
Leeds and I recall that he was a grown man, dressed in the kind of garb
the VC usually wore.

<snip>


http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/082204Y.shtml


and

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/22/politics/campaign/22swift.html





2.) Robert Lambert:

<snip>

Three Navy men won Bronze Stars for their actions that day: Kerry,
Thurlow, and radarman first class Robert Eugene Lambert, a petty
officer in the boat captained by Thurlow. The citation for Lambert's
Bronze Star--previously undisclosed but obtained today under the
Freedom of Information Act from the National Personnel Records
Center in St. Louis--repeats the description of the incident included
in the citation for Thurlow's Bronze Star: "all units came under small
arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks." Lambert's
citation also notes that Lambert--who assumed command of PCF-51
after Thurlow went to assist another Swift boat damaged by a mine--
"directed accurate suppressing fire at the enemy." The citation praises
Lambert's "coolness, professionalism and courage under fire."
<snip>


http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=1692


And Lambert finally spoke out on Wed. 25 Aug, explicitly mentioning
the incoming fire:

http://www.mailtribune.com/archive/2004/0826/local/stories/01local.htm

and:


<snip>

"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire," Lambert
said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.


"Thurlow was far too distracted with rescue efforts to even realize he was
under fire. He was concentrating on trying to save lives."

<snip>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&nci...






3.) Pat Runyon

<snip>

. . . An Ohio factory worker who was with John Kerry on a dangerous night
mission 36 years ago in Vietnam said he has no doubt Kerry was grazed
in a firefight and deserves his first Purple Heart for a combat injury.

. . .

Runyon said Kerry was wounded after one vessel (sanpan) tried to avoid
an inspection.

"Lt. Kerry said, 'I'm going to pop a flare, and when I do, I want that engine
started,' " Runyon said. But the outboard would not crank. Meanwhile,
the sampan's crew steered it to the riverbank, and people started running
on the shore. Runyon said shooting broke out.

Somehow, Kerry's weapon stopped firing. Runyon thinks he ran out of
ammunition. He said Kerry bent down to pick up another gun and got hit
in the arm.

"It wasn't a serious wound," Runyon said, and Kerry was able to start
shooting again. When the firefight was over, Runyon said Kerry told him
all he felt was a "burning sensation."

<snip>


http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/isele/109265584379530.xml?isele





4.) Jim Russell:

<snip>

Three things that are forever pictured in my mind since that day over 30 years
ago are: (1) The No. 3, 50-foot long, Swift boat getting huge, huge air; John
Kerry thought it was about two feet. (He was farther away from it than I). I
think it was at least four feet and probably closer to six feet; (2) All the boats
turning left and letting loose at the same time like a deadly, choreographed
dance and; (3) A few minutes later, John Kerry bending over his boat picking
up one of the rangers that we were ferrying from out of the water. All the time
we were taking small arms fire from the beach; although because of our fusillade
into the jungle, I don't think it was very accurate, thank God. Anyone who
doesn't think that we were being fired upon must have been on a different river.

<snip>

http://www.telluridegateway.com/articles/2004/08/20/news/opinion/opinion01.txt




5.) Wayne D. Langhofer:

<snip>

Wayne D. Langhofer, now an employee at a Kansas gunpowder plant, told
the Washington Post in yesterday's editions, "There was a lot of firing going
on, and it came from both sides of the river."

Reflecting on the battle in the Bay Hap River, which resulted both in Kerry
being awarded the Bronze Star and receiving a third Purple Heart, which
allowed him to end his combat tour after just four months, Langhofer
said he distinctly remembered the "clack, clack, clack" of enemy AK-47s,
as well as muzzle flashes from the surrounding riverbanks. Langhofer manned
a machine gun aboard PCF-43, the boat that was directly behind Kerry's.

<snip>

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/23/swift_boat_veteran_backs_kerry_on_details_of_1969_ambush/




6.-8.) Jim McCann, Rich Baker, and Del Sandusky (with Jim Rusell, #4, above):

<snip>

In a conference call with reporters arranged by the campaign, three
Navy Swift boat officers who served with Kerry 35 years ago but
who said they have not been in touch with him for years defended
his service and his bravery. Rich McCann, Jim Russell and Rich
Baker said Kerry served honorably and took issue with questions
raised by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth about his
commendations.

"He was the most aggressive officer in charge of Swift boats,"
Baker said. "With no disrespect to anyone out there, the whole
Swift boat operation took courage and guts every time you
stepped on those boats. But John Kerry was one step above the
rest of us."

. . .

In Pennsylvania, crewmate Del Sandusky said at a news conference
that he witnessed the combat missions for which Kerry received Silver
and Bronze stars and two of his three Purple Hearts. "He deserved every
one of his medals," Sandusky said.

<snip>


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26519-2004Aug23.html


and more from Del Sandusky:

<snip>

Del Sandusky . . . says his boat was jarred by an explosion, probably from a
rocket, knocking the soldier, Jim Rassmann, off the boat. Kerry was thrown
against the bulkhead, injuring his arm. Sandusky says he could see muzzle flashes
from the jungle and bullets skimming across the water. Sandusky says he can't
remember if anyone was still shooting when Kerry pulled Rassmann from the river,
but in any case, the boat was banged up and taking on water. An official report
made available to NEWSWEEK shows windows blown out and the engine and
steering damaged; it's unclear from the report when the damage happened.

<snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5783805/site/newsweek/



9.) Rich Baker:

<snip>

Baker, 61, now a baker by trade, says he was never contacted by the
group, perhaps because he recently moved to Pittsburgh. Kerry is "very
well fit for command," he said. "He was one of the most courageous
and aggressive swift boat captains in the division."

<snip>

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-08-23-bush-ads_x.htm








B. Accounts by others with special knowledge that support Kerry's version:

1.) The widow of Lt. Donald Droz:

<snip>

. . . Droz, a key witness in the ongoing debate over Kerry's service
record, is missing from it, killed in a rocket attack in Vietnam in April
1969 days after Kerry returned home. While Droz cannot defend Kerry,
his widow, Judith Droz Keyes, said she feels she must.

. . .

"John Kerry was a good friend, and a loyal friend to my late husband,"
she said in a telephone interview from her office in San Francisco. "My
husband isn't here to speak, and all I can do is to speak in his name. I
don't feel I can't remain silent anymore."

Keyes said that by challenging Kerry's record, the Swift Boat Veterans
for Truth, a group of former veterans opposed to Kerry's presidential
candidacy, are dishonoring the memory of men such as her husband who
fought by Kerry's side. "The suggestion that what Don did or that the
award he got was somehow undeserved is crossing a line," she said.

<snip>

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/bush/articles/2004/08/27/kerrys_medals_were_deserved_says_widow_of_slain_comrade/





C Vets who were actually there and support the SBVT stories:

1.) Retired Rear Adm. William L. Schachte Jr.:

<snip>

. . . Schachte . . . said Thursday in his first on-the-record interview about the
swift boat veterans dispute that "I was absolutely in the skimmer" in the early
morning on Dec. 2, 1968, when Lt. (j.g.) John Kerry was involved in an
incident that led to his first Purple Heart.

"Kerry nicked himself with a M-79 ," Schachte said in a
telephone interview from his home in Charleston, S.C. He said, "Kerry requested
a Purple Heart."

.. .

Two enlisted men who appeared at the podium with Kerry at the Democratic
National Convention in Boston have asserted that they were alone in the small
boat with Kerry, with no other officer present. Schachte said it "was not possible"
for Kerry to have gone out alone so soon after joining the swift boat command in
late November 1968.



<snip>

http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-nws-novak27.html

(but as some Duers have noted, Schachte, even though he claims,
in this Novak column–below–to be independent. is a Republican
donor):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x678747


DU's GOPAgainstGW investigated, finding:

<snip>

Admiral Schachte is employed by the law firm of Blank and Rome.

A member of the Board of Directors of Blank and Rome is Mr. David A
Norcross, who, coincidentally is the Chairman of the 2004 Republican
National Convention's Committee on Arrangements.

<snip>

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x682942

It's amazing what you'll find beneath every rock (new charges about
Schachte's credibility):

<snip>

Kerry has said Schachte was not on the boat that night, adding another
mystery to the disputed events of 36 years ago.But other events are not
in dispute. According to a March 18 legal filing by Schachte's firm, Blank
Rome, Schachte was one of the lobbyists working for FastShip on issues
such as the effort to win funding for a new marine cargo terminal. On Feb.
2, Philadelphia-based FastShip announced that it would receive $40 million
in federal funding for the project.

In addition, David Norcross, Schachte's colleague in the Washington office
of Blank Rome, is chairman of this week's Republican convention in New
York. Records also show that Schachte gave $1,000 to Bush's 2000 and
2004 campaigns.

The Kerry campaign alleges foul play. "It's amazing what a $40 million
government contract can do for your memory," Kerry spokesman Chad
Clanton said, noting that Schachte did not challenge Kerry's Purple Heart
while describing the incident in an interview last year. Schachte is listed as
"of counsel" on Blank Rome's Web site, but a receptionist at the firm said
he is retired, and messages left for him and a firm spokesman were not
returned.

<snip>


http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A47542-2004Aug30?language=printer

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3. III. New Charges Against Kerry About his Service

III. New Charges Against Kerry About his Service
. . . . (or, The Muckraker Never Sleeps)

Arguing about Kerry's metals as listed on official site:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-lips27.html

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/9/2/120951.shtml

http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-lips28.html

(Sun Times items are without real consequence, Newsmax
has no credibility, but it's good to know what the wingnuts
are up to.)

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4. IV. Changes or Qualifications in Stories of individual SBVT

IV. Changes or Qualifications in Stories of individual SBVT

SBVT members who have recanted or qualified their original story, or whose
specific stories have been directly challenged, or who have been discredited:

a.). George Elliott:

<snip>

. . . George Elliott, a leading member of the group who was the
commander who signed the recommendation for Kerry's Bronze Star,
campaigned with Kerry in 1996, defending him after questions were
raised about Kerry's Silver Star. (Kerry received this medal for chasing
down and killing an enemy soldier on February 28, 1969.) And in 1969,
Elliot wrote Kerry's fitness report and noted, "In a combat environment
often requiring independent decisive action, Lt. j.g. Kerry was unsurpassed."
Now he says Kerry lied about his service in
Vietnam.

<snip>

http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=1692



b.) Alfred French in the SBVT ad implies he was present at the incident, but . . .

<snip>

French said he is relying on the accounts of three other veterans who
were friends of his at the time. A fourth veteran with whom French was
acquainted corroborated their accounts.

"I was not a witness to these events but my friends were," said French,
who was awarded two Bronze Stars during the war. "I believe these
people. These are people I served with."

One of the men is Larry Thurlow. . . .

<snip>


http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/front_page/109300303292321.xml

And now (Aug. 27th) French reported to have lied about extra-marital affair:

<snip>

Reports say French misled his former boss ten years ago to avoid getting fired.

<snip>

http://www2.kval.com/x30530.xml?ParentPageID=x2649&ContentID=x46673&Layout=kval.xsl&AdGroupID=x30530



c. Larry Thurlow's citation, containing references to incoming fire which Thurlow's
affidavit denies:

<snip>

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to
The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several
references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at
"all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star
that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a
damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

. . .

"I am here to state that we weren't under fire," he said. He speculated that Kerry
could have been the source of at least some of the language used in the citation.

<snip>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13267-2004Aug18.html

Brentspeak reminds me that, although Thurlow accused "Kerry as
having been the one to have the citations worded his own way, . . .
the award recommendation for Thurlow's Bronze Star lists
as the primary eyewitness, Robert Lambert, Thurlow's own swiftmate
(debunking Thurlow's lame claim)."

And now the possibility of Thurlow being an accurate witness is
called into question:

<snip>

A swift boat crewman decorated in the 1969 Vietnam incident where John
Kerry won a Bronze Star says not only did they come under enemy fire but
also that his own boat commander, who has challenged the official account,
was too distracted tonotice the gunfire.

. . .

"Thurlow was far too distracted with rescue efforts to even realize he was under
fire. He was concentrating on trying to save lives."

<snip>


http://wire.jacksonville.com/pstories/politics/20040827/2400926.shtml




d. John O'Neill's honesty is in serious question, and a list
of his potential "prevaracations" can be seen at:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200408250002


Most obviously O'Neill, having claimed recently never to have been in Cambodia,
in 1971 claimed otherwise. In an 24 Aug. 04 report on Aaron Brown by Joe Johns:

<snip>

JOHNS: . . . John O'Neill said Kerry made up a story about being in Cambodia
beyond the legal borders of the Vietnam War in 1968. O'Neill said no one could
cross the border by river and he claimed in an audio tape that his publicist played
to CNN that he, himself, had never been to Cambodia either. But in 1971, O'Neill
said precisely the opposite to then President Richard Nixon.

(starts tape)
O'NEILL: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.
NIXON: In a swift boat?
O'NEILL: Yes, sir.
(end tape)

JOHNS: Now, O'Neill may have an explanation for this but he has not returned
CNN's calls. What does seem clear is that a top member of the swift boat group
is now being held to the same standard of literal accuracy they've tried to impose
on John Kerry –
. . .

BROWN: And just quickly on the O'Neill thing, just for my edification here,
Mr. O'Neill's publicist played for you a tape where Mr. O'Neill says what again?

JOHNS: Well, he says in the tape essentially that he did not go to Cambodia,
plain and simple. He says that a couple times in fact in this little short interview
that was played for me on the phone. Now, of course, as you listen to that
conversation with Richard Nixon, he says something completely different or,
at least, that's what it sounds like --

<snip>

By the 25th of Aug. on the Hannity and Colmes show, O'Neill had figured how
to answer this:

<snip>

COLMES: You claimed at one point you weren't , and then you claimed
you were. This is very confusing to people.

O'NEILL: Well, it shouldn't be confused. I was never in Cambodia, and Kerry
lied when he said he was in Cambodia.

COLMES: You said to Richard Nixon you were in Cambodia.

. . .

HANNITY: On the border.

COLMES: There's a tape of you saying that to Richard Nixon.

O'NEILL: What's the next sentence? I was along the Cambodian border.
That's exactly right. What I told Nixon and was trying to tell him in this
meeting was I was along the Cambodian border.

<snip>

http://mediamatters.org/items/200408250004


The problem with the above, however, is that he'd earlier claimed not only
did no one go went into Cambodia, that no one even came within 30 miles
of the border:

<snip>

O'Neill: . . .everyone familiar with the entire operation series knows
that the PCF, the Swift Boat areas, stopped just north of Sa-Dec, some
50 miles from the border. The areas further north were PBRs--smaller
boats--and that the border was heavily guarded to ensure that nobody
could go across it.

(Interviewer): There were navy gunboats anchored in the Mekong River
Channel, through which a Swift Boat would have to pass.

O' NEILL: Yes. It would have been apprehended 30 miles before. But
were placed there because in 1967 some drunken Army guys actually
went up that river and were interned in Cambodia. And so to avoid future
incidents, those gunboats were placed there. And we checked with the c
ommander of those gunboats, whose name is Tom Anderson.
He's also in the book.

<snip>

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=4835

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x775416#775520

and

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=716&e=5&u=/ap/20040826/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_critic_swift_boats

Or see Tom Oliphant for a light background on O'Neill (and a good read):

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/08/22/smear_by_veterans_may_hurt_bush/

More on O'Neill, esp. is Bush-is-an-empty-suit comment and claims
of voting for Gore and Perot in a bid for credibility:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/28/politics/campaign/28oneill.html?pagewanted=print&position=


Let's see, he only to Republicans then voted for Perot and Gore.
(He's an enigma wrapped in a tuna fish sandwich, etc.) Perhaps
even some of these donations were illegal (giving under others'
names):

http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=600&Itemid=2



e.) Task Force 115 (25 Aug. 2004):

<snip>

The Navy task force overseeing John Kerry's swift boat squadron in
Vietnam reported that his group of boats came under enemy fire during
a March 13, 1969, incident that three decades later is being challenged by
the Democratic presidential nominee's critics.

The March 18, 1969, weekly report from Task Force 115, which was
located by The Associated Press during a search of Navy archives, is
the latest document to surface that supports Kerry's description of an event
for which he won a Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart.

The Task Force report twice mentions the incident five days earlier and both
times calls it "an enemy initiated firefight" that included automatic weapons fire
and underwater mines used against a group of five boats that included Kerry's.

<snip>

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040825_973.html

and

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5818634


f..) Swift Boat Vets Bob Anderson and Bob Wedge who didn't sign
the letter, but whose names appear. (And they can't get O'Neill to
remove their names!!!) Speculation that 25% of the names on the list
might be there without consent:

<snip>

The letter, which was posted on the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth
Web site, claims the Democratic presidential candidate has "grossly
and knowingly distorted the conduct of the American soldiers, marines,
sailors and airmen of that (Vietnam) war."

. . .

"After reading the letter," Anderson said, "it kind of got under my skin.
I had never come across a situation where someone used my name
without my support or approval. . . . ."

. . .

Anderson said he first learned about the situation last week when he
received an e-mail from a third party. The e-mail, from a Tom Pyle,
said Pyle had contacted a dozen men whose names showed up on the list.
Of the dozen, three said they had not given permission, Anderson said.
"That leads me to believe that as many as 25 percent of the names
are fictitious supporters of that group," he said.

<snip>


http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?display=rednews/2004/09/01/build/state/25-swift-boat.inc

and:

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&tts=1&display=rednews/2004/09/01/build/state/25-swift-boat.inc


g) Rich McCann and Rich Baker, pictured in Swift Boat photo
that claims both men "neutral" about Kerry's actions, claim foul!

<snip>


. . . Swift Boat Veterans for Truth(‘s) Web site shows a photo
of Kerry with 19 officers from his division. The group said only
one man in the picture, Skip Barker, supports Kerry. Rich McCann
and Rich Baker are among four listed as "neutral."

But McCann, 60, a consultant from Chagrin Falls, Ohio, said he told
the group he was neutral about whether it used his picture. "I was never
neutral about (Kerry) as president," he said. "If the question is whether
John Kerry is fit to be commander in chief, my answer is absolutely."

Baker, 61, now a baker by trade, says he was never contacted by the
group, perhaps because he recently moved to Pittsburgh. Kerry is "very
well fit for command," he said. "He was one of the most courageous
and aggressive swift boat captains in the division."

. . .

The group's claim that Kerry made up reports of enemy fire during a
March 1969 mission when Kerry pulled a Green Beret from a river and
won the Bronze Star doesn't make sense to McCann and Baker. "The
other officers would have had the opportunity to say at the debriefing, 'No,
John, we weren't under fire,' " Baker said.

<snip>

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-08-23-bush-ads_x.htm

or:

http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-318270.php


h.) Credibility of Novak undermined by conflict on interest:

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=35558

[skip fox]

7. New for end of #4: Ex-POWs in Swifties' ad have motives questioned:

i.) Now the motives of ex-POWs (in Swifties follow-up ads)
are in questioned:

<snip>

Two former Vietnam prisoners of war who appear in ads attacking
Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry . . . were appointed
by the Bush administration to a panel advising the Department of
Veterans Affairs. . . .

. . .

(Kenneth) Cordier and (Paul) Galanti appear in an anti-Kerry
ad saying their Vietnamese captors used news of anti-war protests,
such as ones Kerry organized, to taunt the prisoners. Cordier also
was a member of a Bush campaign veterans' committee but quit
earlier this month after that role was revealed.

<snip>



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=696&e=2&u=/ap/20040903/ap_on_el_pr/anti_kerry_veterans

[skip fox]

5. V. Points of Collusion Between Republicans and the SBVT

V. Points of Collusion Between Republicans and the SBVT


A schematic showing basic associations (and some contradictions):

http://nytimes.com/imagepages/2004/08/19/politics/campaign/20040820_SWIFT_GRAPH.html

Kerry's new page on the connections he finds:

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/web_of_connections.pdf




and more on the potential Merrie Spaeth connection:

<snip>

Ms. Spaeth was spokeswoman for a group that ran $2 million worth of ads
attacking Senator John McCain's environmental record and lauding Mr. Bush's
in crucial states during their fierce primary battle. The group, calling itself
Republicans for Clean Air, was founded by a prominent Texas supporter
of Mr. Bush, Sam Wyly.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20s...



Merrie Spaeth's recent "interview" with Joe Scarborough:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5818684 /

and

<snip>

How the group came into existence is a story of how veterans with
longstanding anger about Mr. Kerry's antiwar statements in the early
1970's allied themselves with Texas Republicans.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html


and:

<snip>

"A series of interviews and a review of documents show a web of connections
to the Bush family, high-profile Texas political figures and President Bush's
chief political aide, Karl Rove," the Times reported."Several of those now
declaring Mr. Kerry 'unfit' had lavished praise on him, some as recently
as last year.

<snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5771731/


and:

<snip>

WASHINGTON, Aug. 20 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Public records reveal that two
of the people in the new "Swift Boat Veterans for Bush" television ad are
Republican activists . . . . This is just more proof that Bush's Republican allies
are the ones behind this disgraceful smear of John Kerry (news -web sites)'s
military record. It's pretty clear what's going on here. It's no wonder the Bush
campaign refuses to condemn this smear.

<snip>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=669&ncid=669&e=2&u=/usnw/20040820/pl_usnw/more_republican_ties_revealed_behind__swift_boat_vets_for_bush___says_kerry_campaign141_xml


and:

<snip>

Mr. Bush's campaign confirmed on Saturday . . . that one of the veteran in that
advertisement (SBV ad #1) was a member (of) the Bush campaign's veterans'
advisory committee.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/22/politics/campaign/22swift.html


DU's Mayberry Machiavelli pointed out in a post:

Ken Cordier was on Bush campaign staff right up until his appearance in
the second Swift Boat commercial, proving that Bush campaign denials
of connection with the smear campaign are disingenuous (long word for "lies"):

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/21/edwards.swift...



And Benjamin Ginsberg, the national counsel for Bush's re-election campaign
had to resign due to connections with SBVT:

<snip>

The Washington Post revealed today that a top attorney to the Bush
campaign, Benjamin Ginsberg, has been advising the Swift Boat
Veterans for Truth.

<snip>


http://www.washingtondispatch.com/spectrum/archives/000511.html

and:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6067942

and:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5818634

and:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&u=/ap/20040824/ap_on_el_pr/veterans_group_bush_2&printer=1


Well, maybe what Ginsberg was doing was legal. Right? Well then, why
did he argued differently just two weeks ago?

<snip>

An article that appeared in the Philadelphia Inquirer just two weeks ago included
this bit about Ginsberg: "Ben Ginsberg, a legal adviser to the Bush campaign,
specifically condemned the dual roles played by Democrats Harold Ickes and Bill
Richardson, who had official roles at the convention and also within prominent f
riendly 527s. 'They're over the coordination line,' Ginsberg said of Ickes and Richardson.
'The whole notion of cutting off links between public officeholders and soft-money
groups just got exploded.'"

To make things even better, Ginsberg doesn't just advise the Swift Boat Guys -- a
role he will no doubt seriously downplay over the next few days. He serves as the
official chief counsel to Progress for America, another 527 that, according to the
Center for Responsive Politics, exists to "form 'issue truth squads' that respond to
Democratic attacks on President Bush."

<snip>

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_08/004571.php



And yet another official in Bush's Campaign, GOP convention
Chairman David Norcross linked to SBVT:

<snip>

GOP convention Chairman David Norcross practices law in the
same D.C. firm, Blank Rome, as William Schachte, a retired Navy
admiral who says Kerry did not deserve one of his Purple Heart
medals, Time magazine reported yesterday.

Schachte is aligned with the anti-Kerry group Swift Boat Veterans
for Truth, which has dominated the campaign in recent weeks with
accusations that the former Swift boat skipper is lying about how
he got his war medals.


<snip>

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/227267p-195132c.html




Now the main SBVT backer, Robert Perry, is co-hosting Rove next week
at a county fundraiser! (Additionally, Rove claims not to have spoken with
Perry in a year. Ain't life grand!)

<snip>

. . . the Dallas Morning News yesterday reported that the man bankrolling
the smear ads is hosting President Bush's top political adviser at a fundraiser
in New York during the Republican National Convention. Robert Perry, the
top Bush-Cheney fundraiser who is financing the Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth ads, "is listed as the co-host" of an event whose guest list includes Karl
Rove on September 1

<snip>

http://www.misleader.org/daily_mislead/Read.asp?fn=df08252004.html



and from the Dallas Morning News:

<snip>

Invitations to the Harris County reception and fund-raiser Sept. 1 at Tavern
on the Green name Mr. Perry as an event sponsor, and those on the invitation
list include former President George Bush, presidential adviser Karl Rove and
House Majority Leader Tom DeLay.

<snip>

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/registration/register.jsp?fw=http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/washington/stories/082404dnpolfundraiser.5ae2b.html



Yet another conflict of interest, as DUs BurtWorm has it: SBVT
Treasurer Administers GOP FEC Compliance Firm. Her name is Susan
Arceneaux

<snip>

Political Compliance Services Inc. is a consulting company based in Fairfax, VA.
On its website, it describes itself as "an accounting services vendor specializing in
FEC regulations. Our comprehensive approach to your individual accounting needs
will deliver you from the headaches and legal ramifications of FEC non-compliance."

Its website says that it "serves the following political organizations":

Candidate Committees
Separate Segregated Funds
Non-Connected PACs
Party Committees

In May 2004, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth paid $7500 to Political Compliance
Services for what is described on its IRS form 8872 as "Compliance Consulting".
Despite this, in August 2004 three campaign finance watchdog groups filed a
complaint with the Federal Election Commission arguing that the Swift Boat
Veterans for Truth were in breach of restrictions applying to 527 committees

On its website, Political Compliance Services boasts that: "Our consultants and
analysts are career experts in campaign and PAC accounting, finance,
administration and compliance." <11> However, it appears shy of disclosing
who exactly those consultants are. No information is given on the site regarding
who works for the company. Fortunately, its entry in the WHOIS database is more
informative. It lists Susan Arceneaux as the administrative contact for the company.

. . .

Susan Arceneaux is also the treasurer of The Majority Leader's Fund, a PAC
affiliated with the former House Majority Leader Dick Armey, R-Texas <13>.
Interestingly, the Majority Leader's Fund has been a client of Political Compliance
Services <14>.

Arceneaux is also listed as the contact person for the recently-formed right-wing
PAC FreedomWorks, on its IRS form 8872 for the first quarter of 2004 <15>.

<snip>

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x69684



We may get to know much more very soon since Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics
in Washington (CREW) has filed a Freedom of Information Act request investigating
links between the WH and the SBV for Truth group:

<snip>

(Melanie) Sloan (CREW's exec. director) decided to send the FOIA after reading that,
upon being asked whether she had worked with White House officials, SBVT public
relations coordinator Merrie Spaeth said "The answer is 'no' unless you refresh my
memory." (NYT 8/20/04). Sloan said that she was also skeptical of Bush political
advisor Karl Rove's claim that he has not spoken with his friend and large Republican
donor Bob Perry in over a year. The FOIA was sent, said Sloan, "to gather the
information Ms. Spaeth, Karl Rove and others may need to have their memories
refreshed as to whether or not SBVT illegally coordinated with the White House."

<snip>


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=669&ncid=669&e=1&u=/usnw/20040824/pl_usnw/crew_foias_white_house_contacts_with_swift_boat_veterans_group137_xml


But it looks like CREW is being stonewalled:

<snip>

Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) filed
the FOIA request on August 24 and received a letter from the Executive
Office of the President Friday, denying the grounds that it is "exempt from
having to disclose the information" under the law.

CREW had asked the White House to release information regarding contacts
between the Executive Office of the President and members of SBVT and
others associated with the group, including public relations, advertising,
detective and fundraising organizations.

CREW filed the FOIA after learning that President Bush's political advisor Karl
Rove had claimed not to have spoken with his longtime friend and primary
SVBT donor Bob J. Perry, in over a year.

<snip>

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_5128.shtml


Du's own Skinner (!) is doing a state-by-state search for collusion between local and state
Republican committees and the SBVTs in terms of rallies, links and ads on web-sites
and selling of SBVT materials, incl. Unfit for Command.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=649597&mesg_id=649597


such as . . .

<snip>

"Bush Campaign Caught Promoting "Swift Boat Vets for Truth" While National
Campaign Denies Coordination, Campaign in Florida Promotes Rally

Tallahassee -- On the same day that the Bush-Cheney campaign repeatedly
denied coordinating attacks with the anti-Kerry group "Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth," the Bush-Cheney campaign in Florida was caught promoting a rally
in Gainesville for the group

<snip>

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_08_15_atrios_archive.html#109303885084378264

and

<snip>

. . . city permits obtained by The New York Times listed the Alachua County
Republican Party Executive Committee as one of four sponsors for the (SBVT)
rally, and one of the checks to pay for the permit was written by a member of the
party's executive committee. Additional permits for the rally were taken out by
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and two additional anti-Kerry veterans groups,
all of which gave their address as the local Republican party headquarters and
their contact as a member of the party's executive committee.

Travis Horn, the chairman of the county Republican Party, first said that the
party had been invitees, not sponsors. Asked about the permits, he then said
that there had been no "collusion." Dineen Wolfersheim, the name listed as the
contact, said that she is on the party's executive committee but had taken out
the permits as a private citizen and that Lourdes Chu, another member of the
executive committee, had likewise paid for the permits as a private
citizen.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/27/politics/campaign/27swift.html


Example of Bush campaign rally in collusion with SBVT:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4439188,00.html


and DU's fine posts and members . . . on the job with cameras!! Wow! Check it out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x657176

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x646015

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040821/LOCAL/40821006/1078/news&template=printart



And the Official Minnesota Republican Website links the SBV ad:

<snip>

Webpage "Prepared and Paid for by Republican Party of Minnesota" Found
to Be Linking to the Swift Boat Ads. In Minnesota . . . an official Republican Party
webpage was recently found to be linking to the Swift Boat Ads. The webpage goes
on to . . . question . . . John Kerry's service in Vietnam: SWIFT VETS ARE
GETTING TO KERRY; DID HE LIE ABOUT HIS SERVICE, repeatedly, in an
effort to embellish it? DID HE TAKE CREDIT for engagements fought by other men . . .?
The website also contains a link to purchase the book produced by Swift Boat
Veterans for Truth, "Unfit For Command".

<snip>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=669&ncid=669&e=1&u=/usnw/20040823/pl_usnw/kerry_edwards__reports_detail_even_closer_ties_to_bush_campaign__no_wonder_bush_won_t_condemn_this_smear_his_campaign_is_behind



Or even the right-wing affiliations (O'Neill with Charles Colson in
the Nixon WH) of those making the charges as these:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x647917

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=647199&mesg_id=647199

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_9865.shtml


The similarity between the attack on Kerry and the attacks
on other Bush opponents, including McCain, as well as
those who've opposed Karl Rove's candidates, suggests
on-going and systematic collusion:

<snip>

"It's amazing how similar this type of attack is to the pattern
of attacks I have seen over two decades -- in some cases
involving Bush's campaigns, in other cases they involved
campaigns in which Karl Rove was a participant,'' said
Wayne Slater, senior political writer at the Dallas Morning
News, who has covered Bush since his early days in Texas
politics and is author of the book "Bush's Brain,'' about Rove.

"In every case, the approach is the same: You have a
surrogate group of allies, independent of the Bush campaign,
raising questions not about the opponent's weakness but
directly about the opponent's strength,'' Slater said. "In every
case it works."

<snip>

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/08/24/SWIFT.TMP


So it should come as little surprise that Elenor Cliff's confidential source
(a staffer for a Republican senator) told her:

<snip>

The strategy "came straight from the West Wing," says the GOP
staffer. "Nobody should be confused." Asked to explain, this Republican
says Rove is smart enough to keep technical distance. But all it takes is
a well-placed wink to activate a web of Bush family hit men, confidantes
and deep-pocket donors. "They know what to do--it's like sleeper cells
that get activated," he says, likening the players to "political terrorists."

<snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5843033/site/newsweek

[GOPAgainstGW]

8. Republican Retired Navy Officer thanks SBVT helping him vote Kerry

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x761868

[skip fox]

6. Please send links to news stories as replie over the

weekend.