Bush's foes want to back Kerry but he's just too vague

[Manix]

Democrat's natural constituency is still searching for reasons to support him

Suzanne Goldenberg in Baraboo, Wisconsin
Monday September 20, 2004
The Guardian


<snip>


"I think this election is going to make people our age vote more," said Kristen Kreple, 22, from the town of Sheboygan.

"It gets really heated," said Cathi Bartling, 22. At times, the arguments turn so fiery that they put an embargo on talking politics. Somehow, though, the excitement fails to transfer to Mr Kerry's candidacy. "There are a lot of people, especially our age, that are going to vote for anybody but Bush," said Ruhee Divgi, 22.

Commentators believe that Mr Kerry has made a number of disastrous decisions in this campaign. In autumn 2002 he took what seemed the politically expedient course and voted to give Mr Bush the authority to go to war in Iraq. This year, after voting for the war, he voted against an $87bn spending bill for the troops.

"Unless John Kerry opens a serious dialogue about the war - and how he is going to end it - he is going to have a problem capitalising on the vote in Wisconsin from people who are sceptical of the war, and anti-war," Mr Nichols said.

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

Guardian

[dennis4868]

1. "he voted against an $87bn spending bill for the troops. "

well then, these same people should have a problem voting for Bush because he threatened to veto Kerry's $87 billion dollar to be paid for by the wealthiest americans instead of our kids paying for it down the road....since Bush was threatening to veto a bill for support for our troops these same people should have a problem voting for Bush as well, right?

[tedoll78]

2. I am convinced..

that these people are going to vote for Kerry just to get Bush out. THEN they'll deal with Kerry.

It's kinda like us here at DU. We all have our complaints about the Democrats, but we still vote for them since they're the best realistic choice. I predict the same behaviour in these "swing" voters.

[theKnave]

6. re: "I am conviced.."

"I predict the same behaviour in these "swing" voters."

I'm not. Otherwise, the wouldn't be "undecided" or "swing" voters. Of course, I'm cynical of human nature. Most people vote out of their best interests (whether their best interests lie in tax cuts or international peace, that's a decision call for each individual).

People have to be given a reason to vote. Not just a reason for a particular candidate, but a reason to actually get up off of their lard-filled, couch-riding arses and get to the polls.

[pacalo]

11. The fact is, the coWard-in-chief has given us plenty to vote *against*.

[redstateblues]

3. Right Wing Talking Points From A Usually Rational Source

[theKnave]

4. One of the biggest criticisms I've heard of Kerry...

Is that people are uncertain as for what Kerry stands. He voted for the war, he voted against the war. He wants our troops out now, we should stay and finish the job.

He says that he has a plan for Iraq, but no one know what it is.

He says that he will reduce the defecits, but has also proposed billions in new spending.

He's against gay marriage, but against a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. Is he for civil unions?

He says he'll bring other nations "to the table" in regards to Iraq. How?

How do we answer these questions that the swing/undecided voters have? Just saying, "He isn't Bush!" doesn't cut it with all of them.

[murielm99]

7. Sounds like RW talking points to me.

Oooooh...Kerry is a flip-flopper.

If you really want to see someone who changes his mind, look at *. Kerry looks at both sides of an issue, but * does total changes of direction, based on how the wind is blowing. Just look at how he felt about the 9-11 Commission. Or how he said nation-building was wrong. But of course * never makes a mistake!

The Center for American Progress has a list of * flip-flops as long as my arm. Go check them out.

[theKnave]

8. That's an interesting point...

but does nothing to answer the question of what will we get with John Kerry? What are his plans and how will he execute them?

[murielm99]

9. Go to John Kerry's website and look for yourself.

[theKnave]

10. re: "Go to John Kerry's website..."

I have been. While his website states that he wants to reduce middle class taxes, raise upper class and business taxes, reduce the deficit, have a spending/budget cap, and still introduce billions of spending in new programs, it doesn't say how he's going to do it. And what about Iraq? How is he going to get us out there and how soon? He has a lot of talking points, and good ideas, but how is actually going to do it?

And finally, do you actually have anything constructive to add to this thread/conversation? Or are you going to continue to be derogatory and dismissive?

[murielm99]

12. LOL! I'M the one being derogatory and dismissive???

Let's see...you have been here a bit more than twenty-four hours...

You spout right wing talking points about Kerry. You practically ask to see his whole legislative program in writing before he is elected.

Would you prefer Mr. Everything is Rosy in Iraq, The Economy is Booming Bush?

I think he has excellent ideas. I don't understand what more you can demand. ALL candidates state their plans and ideas when running. They work on implementing them after they are elected. If he does not live up to what I expect, I will be the first to criticize.

I don't have any doubts about my candidate. If you do, you are in the wrong place.

[theKnave]

14. Yes

"You spout right wing talking points about Kerry. You practically ask to see his whole legislative program in writing before he is elected."

I've repeated questions that undecided friends of mine have asked. I'm just looking for concise answers to give them, that aren't just Democrat talkinging points. I've repeated Kerry's goals from his website. However, whenever they ask, "How is he going to do all of that?" or "What's his plan on Iraq?" then, I'm not sure what to say. "Just wait and see," doesn't really seem to impress them.

"If he does not live up to what I expect, I will be the first to criticize."

I have no doubt of that.

"I don't have any doubts about my candidate. If you do, you are in the wrong place."

I have no doubts about Kerry. I'm just looking for some more information to help swing some undecided voters. Forgive me if I don't meet your standard as a Democrat. On second thought, forget you.

[emulatorloo]

15. why don't you visit John Kerry's website. . .there are plenty of answers

there and in his recent speeches.

Then you will know the answers to these questions.

www.johnkerry.com

[nyhuskyfan]

17. Some answers

You can be against gay marriage, but not feel that the constitution should be used as a tool for discimination. That one's easy. There are a lot of things I'm against that the constitution has no business touching. A weight limit for thong-type bathing suits, for example.

He'll bring other nations to the table. Well, when you aren't shilling for Halliburton and can give these other nations a stake in a reconstructed Iraq, they may listen more. Bush has lost all credibility with foreign nations, because he's been a go-it-alone cowboy. Nobody will listen to him, and nobody respects him. At the very least, Kerry would give us a clean slate to start from scratch, and that's more than enough reason to vote for him. Bush just keeps digging a hole deeper and deeper while saying "stay the course" -- Kerry gets us back to level ground again.

A big factor in the deficit reduction is corporate taxation. Everyone thinks "he only wants to tax the rich", but corporations get away without paying billions of taxes every year, much moreso under Bush. Most of this extra profitability has gone right into the pockets of CEO's, who make 50 percent more per year than they did four years ago. Closing corporate tax loopholes would be an enormous boon to budget deficit reduction and allow for some spending in other areas.

I don't see why people should be criticial of Kerry's plan for Iraq, when the current administration's already proven to be an abject failure in that regard. Where are the candy and flowers, the homemade pies, and the Iraq oil revenues paying for their own reconstruction? The small band of desperate insurgents that were not a long-term problem?

Kerry isn't going to have all the answers, but he's going to give us the best chance at undoing at least some of the Bush cataclysmic mess -- both at home and abroad. I only hope he gets that chance.

[theKnave]

18. Thank you. n/t

:-)

[kskiska]

5. These people should take some advice from James Wolcott:

Wolcott is commenting on an article by Richard Cohen:

(snip)

…There are much bigger things at stake here. And if it's common sense on which you pride yourself, you're not a red state or a blue state but a state of delusion.

THE SUREST WAY TO BE PROVEN WRONG IS TO GIVE GEORGE BUSH THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.

The environment. The judiciary. WMDs. The occupation of Iraq. The deficit. Pick a subject, any subject, and giving Bush the benefit of the doubt has been a guaranteed loser.

How many slaps in the face from Bush will it take to wipe the smug smile off of Cohen's face?

more…
http://jameswolcott.com/

[Manix]

13. .....very well stated!

[bemildred]

16. Another feeble attempt to discourage voter turnout. nt