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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 09:40 AM
Original message
Shoulda Been Wes
Too bad Clark was such an awful candidate.

Oon Monday, John Kerry gave what both his fans and his critics say was his best speech on Iraq and foreign policy so far. Basically, Kerry has decided that the Iraq war is a Vietnam-like mistake, that the "world," not America, should fix Iraq, and that America should get out, fast. Of course, this is basically an expanded version of one of his recent antiwar stances. And now that I've read Kerry's first, best, and allegedly last iteration of his views on Iraq and the war on terrorism, I've come to one obvious conclusion: The Democrats should have nominated Wesley Clark.

Truth be told, I was never a big fan of the guy. But if the Clark everyone expected to run had actually run, Bush would be in huge trouble right now. Recall that before Clark got into the primaries he was generally perceived to be a moderate, Southern New Democrat and something of a hawk on foreign policy. When he ran the Kosovo war — which was not authorized by the UN, not aimed at WMDs, not part of the war on terrorism — he was always pushing for a more aggressive approach. As late as 2002 Clark was toasting the Bush team at a Republican fundraiser and he even admitted that he'd voted for Reagan and might have become an active Republican if only the White House had returned his phone calls.

The problem for Clark was that he didn't run as Clark. He ran as a Howard Dean with a mothballed general's uniform. That's why, at the time, I kept referring to him as the "Johnny Bravo" candidate. This was a reference to the Brady Bunch episode in which some slick music promoters asked Greg Brady to be a new rock star, "Johnny Bravo." Greg thought they liked him for his talent, when all they really wanted was someone who looked good in the costume. Democratic insiders — starting with Bill Clinton himself — kept insisting that a Democratic candidate with Wesley Clark's credibility on defense would crush the Republicans because American voters favor Democrats on domestic issues by a wide margin.

But the Democrats failed to grasp that the Republicans had won the foreign-policy debate not because they offered better props and costumes. They won it because they had better ideas. Ever since Reagan, the Democrats have attributed the GOP's advantage on foreign policy to flag-waving, gauzy commercials, and cheap appeals to patriotism. Conservatives couldn't possibly be right on the merits! It had to be some trick concocted by Mike Deaver, Lee Atwater, or Karl Rove. What the Democrats seemed not to notice was that none of the winning Republican candidates, with the exception of G. H. W. Bush, were war heroes. Bob Dole, who was one, got trounced — and so did the first President Bush in 1992.
<snip>

http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg200409220845.asp
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. national review? jonah goldberg?
interesting read...but the SOURCE...ewwwwwwww :eyes:
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. shoulda been Kucinich....
Then the dabate would not be about HOW to fight the war in Iraq, but WHETHER to fight it. Kerry simply cannot have that debate.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. And in the real world,
Kucinich would've lost in a landslide.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. Absolutely!
When are we going to get beyond the excuses of "not mainstream enough" and realize that the "mainstream" is an artificial political construct. If we made it our dedicated goal to tear it down we could.

Instead, we have a candidate who is a bit less corporate owned, a bit less mercenary in turning us all over to international trade and finance organizations, but still only the lesser of two very evils.

Yes, Kerry is 100% better than Bush. I absolutely agree. But any real democrat would be 100% better than Kerry.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
4. Jonathan Goldberg fostering dissension amongst Dems. What a surprise.
Edited on Wed Sep-22-04 09:49 AM by blm
Few are falling for the "let's use Deaniacs to divide the Dems" tactic, so now they think they'll get mileage from using Wes' base?

Anyone who thinks there is an IOTA of sincerity in Goldberg's words better check into his history and then reread his column.

They are trying to stop Kerry by pushing the meme "Buyer's Remorse" just as they have in other elections. THAT'S what they do and they will push this idea into the mainstream press if ANY Dems appear to fall for this line.
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. True. This is pure manipulation of the weak minded and faint hearted.
Republicans are skilled at what they do. Sadly, many democrats make it easy for them.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. I don't think any Democrats

will fall for anything that Goldberg spits from his ugly lips.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Yes and No
We won't refuse to vote for Kerry. We won't fall for Republican tactics and give Bush the chance to steal the election.

But we will recognize that Kerry was and is a piss-poor candidate if you were looking for a candidate to stand up for the working poor, national healthcare, and a host of other really important issues.

He will do far less harm than bush, but I don't expect him to do much actual good. It is unrealistic to expect that he will give us more than just token attention to real bread and butter issues. The corporations win no matter who gets elected. The only issue now, is how much do they win.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Kerry is the best candidate!


I was for Wes Clark with all my heart!
Now that I have grown to know and love Kerry, I am with him all the way.

I thought that our mission at Democratic Underground, at this ppoint in the campaign , is to fight like hell for Kerry.
That is what I intend to do.
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JimmyJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Hello and welcome to DU
However, I think it might be wise to review the rules regarding posting. This is not a time to be negative about Kerry. He is our man and we are standing by him. Kerry gets enough bashing from the Freepers, he doesn't need it from you. thanks.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Shouldda read JONAH Goldberg.
Sorry. Brain freeze.
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Torgo4 Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. Actually, Clark Was a Good Candidate and Campaigner!
He made the tactical error of skipping Iowa, allowing Kerry (with no 'electable' alternative)to trounce Dean.
That gave Kerry the big Mo!
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. I am extremely happy with Kerry.
I love Wes Clark; he will not make the best President.

I adore Howard Dean; he will not make the best President.

I have positive feelings for all of the Democratic candidates, but am Very Happy Kerry Won.

Kerry, among his many virtues, has experience in the Senate; he's used to working with people who don't agree with him, and has the diplomatic skills to get everyone on the same page to get stuff done.

Howard and Wes in particular are known for being straight shooting tell it like it is guys who would make those who agree with them deliriously happy while outraging their opponents. That is a good recipe for a divided country ala Junior, but NOT for the country I want.

In addition, Kerry has the good judgment and social skills to see what great people Howard and Wes (and the other candidates are), and isn't going to WASTE THEM. They lost to him as a better President; they still have much to offer their country, and I am confident Kerry will make sure they continue to serve. Because he is a wise man, Kerry is going to make sure their careers aren't over, but advancing to the next level.

The truth is that not every person we like would make a great President. Both Clark and Dean would make Great Presidents for the Democrats Only, just like Junior has been a Great President for the Republicans Only; Kerry is going to be a Great President for America.
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JimmyJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. I thought we weren't supposed to post these types of opinons
and that now that Kerry is the official candidate, we should be supportive of him and not re-hash any shoulda, woulda, couldas.

I think Kerry is the best man for the job (even though I didn't always feel that way). I think he is gaining confidence, strength and clarity with every speech and I think he is going to be one hellava good president.

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Ranec Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Kerry is the best man for the job
I didn't vote for him in March, but maybe we should say something for the wisdom of the crowd. I think at this point Kerry has the unique combination of political saavy and unassailable biography that has kept him alive amidst the s--t storm.

Remember--when you read "Democrats worried about Kerry" don't believe it, don't repeat it, don't give in. You are a Democrat, don't let them tell you what you think. Perceptions are key--unbridled, goofy optimism is our only weapon against the other side's distortion.
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JimmyJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Hello and welcome to DU

:hi:
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. Why would you post this dogshit? This article is really just a...
shitsmear on all things Democratic.

It really has nothing to do with Wes at all.

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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
18. Locking
Pure candidate bashing from a right wing source.

Violates this rule:

"The administrators of this website do not wish for our message board to be used as a platform to attack and tear down the only progressive on the planet with any hope of defeating George W. Bush. Constructive criticism and even outright disappointment with the candidate may be expressed, but partisan negative attacks will not be welcome."
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