Kerry's just starting to get down right NASTY in his attacks on Dean

[newsguyatl]

it's ok, really... we like a good fight... :-)

hell, i'd be worked up, too, if i'd lost my initial spot as the nominal "front runner" with all the millions he has...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-2971539,00.html

[Maple]

1. It would be nice

if he focussed on Bush.

Doesn't say much for Kerry's future presidential abilities, if he's that easily distracted.

[vi5]

5. If you're a Dean supporter, you're kidding right?

Whether you regard any of the attacks from any of the candidates on each other as accurate, or right, or wrong, or whatever there is absolutely no denying that Dean threw the first punch out of any of them.

This may very well be primary politics as usual from all of the candidates, but to claim that Kerry is the only one taking the low road of attacking other candidates or that he was the first to do it is just factually inaccurate.

[Clete]

7. I agree. All the candidates should focus their criticism

on Bush and anyone attached to him rather than knocking each other. The voters will decide who has the best platform anyway, not who lobs the smarmiest attacks.

[Trad Bass]

8. It's a primary

Of course they're going to be attacking each other.

Trad

[unfrigginreal]

2. I've noticed that too...

and that's exactly why you'll see my posts that are slamming Kerry. I wouldn't do it if the Kerry folks would reign in that one poster that's putting up "police state" posts and trying to tie Dean to them. Hell I may not even be a Dean supporter in the end but that's just too much!

[chimpymustgo]

3. Hey, Dean started this sh*t.

I am amazed by the indignation of Dean supporters now that Kerry is fighting back. Howard Brush Dean the Third - what a bully.

[unfrigginreal]

12. Show me the posts Chimpy

I haven't seen anything posted by Deanocrats(haha) that comes close to the tripe posted by the Kerry Elites.

[quinnox]

15. You aren't the only one

Some Dean folks have some real tunnel vision going on.

[Brian Sweat]

29. Agreed

There were two attack in the post article. On by Kerry on Dean and one by Dean on Kerry, but the poster only saw Kerry's attack. Very one sided post.

[dsc]

33. Please site one, just one

post of a Dean supporter that is as inaccurate and nasty as what that poster routinely puts up about Dean. Put up or apologize.

[Octafish]

37. You take the high road, dsc. You are always appreciated...

...even, and especially, when we disagree. You put things in a way that stays on subject in a way that allows people to discuss the issue. Others, like reply #38, leave something to be desired...counseling, perhaps.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=49380

[dsc]

40. Well I asked for one

and you delivered. Yikes. I did give him a response (post 68). But thanks for both the praise and the awakening. I hadn't seen that thread or that post.

[edward]

4. thanks for article.

Kerry sounds a little desperate. Bush's tax give away was a disaster with no economic benefit to the national economy.
Dean should fight back and be consistent. Bush's tax reduction was wrong; the credit for families was done after republicans realized the plan looked vicious.

[charlie]

6. Have at it guys

Okay by me. I just wish all of them would quit hitting each other with the "we musn't become tax-and-spend Democrats" canard. Instead, they should hurl "he's like a borrow-and-spend Republican" insults. Democrats have a decade-long record of fiscal prudence they can point to -- they should embrace it!

[edward]

11. yes, Kerry plays into that canard.

Bush put us in a huge debt. who gets that money? Poindexter and Pentagon.

[Woodstock]

9. Dean is playing to win

Let Kerry play it safe and be happy with the crumbs the Bush Admin. leaves under the table for the middle class. Dean is appealing to a broader base of voters.

[David Zephyr]

10. In Defending Bush's Tax Cut, Kerry Makes Strategic Error.

Whoever advised John Kerry to defend Bush's Tax Cuts in order to draw a line of distinction between him and Howard Dean is a fool...and Kerry is a bigger fool for having taken the advice.

This will only make Kerry slide further in the polls against Howard Dean.

Not a good move on Kerry's part.

[Woodstock]

14. I don't quite understand it either - it seems quite a gaffe

"I voted for it, and yes, it vastly benefits the wealthy, but see, there's a little something for you guys, too, if you look hard enough. And you see, it's so very important that we work with the pResident. I listened to Tom Daschle and didn't make any waves - mustn't make any bold moves - change comes slowly, right? So anyway, that Howard Dean guy, just don't listen to him."

[Feanorcurufinwe]

18. quotation marks are for quotes

quotation marks are for quotes, not your made-up spin

[David Zephyr]

19. You Summed It Up!

A very stupid move on Kerry's part.

[edward]

20. "Stay the course"

nt

[SEAburb]

28. Your reading comprehension is lacking

Maybe you should read the article again. Nowhere did Kerry say he supported all of the Bush tax cuts. He mentioned the Child Tax Credits, do you or Dean oppose them. The marriage penalty tax, do you or Dean support the penalty. And the tax cuts for the middle class, do you or Dean oppose them.

Plus the article said they took shots at each other. You Deanies are so lame, you have to engage in disinformation.

[dsc]

34. Yes I oppose them all

and so does he. Why should people with children get tax breaks when our deficit is so huge? Why should the marriage penalty be eliminated when our cities are starving for funds? Why should the middle class get tax cuts when the poor are dying without insurance? Sorry, but we don't have the money for both the social programs we need and the tax cuts Kerry advocates.

[David Zephyr]

35. Read This and Tell Me What's "Lacking"

From the article in the original post. Perhaps you might want to read it again. Kerry is fucking up and those who are advising him to do this sort of shit or hurting him...not helping him.

"The Kerry campaign provided an advanced text of his remarks to The Associated Press, assailing Dean's call for a repeal of Bush's tax cuts."

[quinnox]

13. Dean is the king of nasty

Unfortunately, Dean's endless attacks have forced Kerry to respond. Dean's rhetoric is the same tired, phony, "I'm an outsider" rehash. Why doesn't he talk about his DLC days as governor?

[Woodstock]

17. If the shoe fits...

I have nothing against them attacking each other if there's a flaw in their strategy - let's get this worked out now rather than once the American people start paying attention to the race in the months ahead. Since Kerry might end up the nominee (not the best choice, IMHO, but it might happen), I'd like to see him at least put up a better fight. This was not a smart response.

[stickdog]

22. 'I'm an outsider" = an endless, nasty attack.

Dean is running a much better campaign.

Kerry is like Bush. He only has two chances:

1) If the nomination is handed to him by Party insider machinations

2) If he lets his "fight dirty" ops loose to reign havoc on his chances of ever winning over to his side any of the support Dean is generating.

[unfrigginreal]

24. Where are the posts?

This is my second request to a 2nd Kerry supporter. Show us what you are talking about.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. I read the article. Where's the 'NASTY' part?

I read the article. Where's the 'NASTY' part?

[quinnox]

21. Any criticism of Dean

is nasty, to some folks.

If something is said that isn't worshipful of Dean, it is to be condemned among some acolytes of the good doctor.

[stickdog]

26. "Dean is the king of nasty" - quinnox (a few posts up)

Did the constant anti-Dean spin cycle make you dizzy?

[quinnox]

27. I stand by my post

I stand by it, wholeheartedly.

[unfrigginreal]

32. Yeah, forgive anyone for thinking comparisons to Hitler is over the line.

n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. I Think Kerry Was Pointing Out That If You Rescinded All The Tax Cuts

you would also be rescinding the tax cuts for the middle class and working people.

That being said, any fair comparison between the two would demonstrate that on fiscal policy Kerry is more liberal.

I'm with Bob Graham,let's raise the top marginal rates to 40% for the highest wage earners and give the working poor a tax break.

Any true reading of Dean's tenure as governor would leave one with the impression he was fiscally conservative.

All politicians blow smoke up your ass.

The last politician to speak the truth and be the true champion of the little guy took a bullet behind the ear on a warm June 5th Los Angeles night in 1968.

[blondeatlast]

25. Dirt was being tossed (gently) on both sides, it seems to me.

I think we all need to toughen up.

I haven't come near making up my mind, and these threads don't help anyb candidate's case. Or hurt it.

On edit: they are starting to affect my opinion of Dean; don't lose me as a possible supporter, please.

[blm]

30. THOSE rightwing polls?

Surely you know better. Boston Herald is the rightwing answer to the Globe. Pierce College is a Bush family STRONGHOLD. Barbara PIERCE Bush. The communications dept. is named for Marlin Fitzwater.
Why would they be so different than ARG which has no change in the positions of Kerry 25% and Dean 19%....hmmm?
>>>
``It also is probably not a coincidence that in the last several days two polls have shown Gov. Dean in the lead,'' Clark said.

In a Franklin Pierce College Poll this week, Dean was supported by 22 percent of likely voters in the New Hampshire primary while Kerry had 21 percent. A Boston Herald poll showed Dean at 28 percent and Kerry at 25 percent.
>>>

[Octafish]

39. When the campaign begins in earnest...

... and the New Hampshire DEMs can compare the nine or ten or eleven or two candidates side-by-side, there will be a widening that even Frank Luntz can notice.

[sendero]

31. Kerry...

... should say his piece.

If he has a real difference of opinion with Dean, he should not be afraid to say so. An 'attack' is when you make fundamentally untrue accusations or attributions. Saying "I don't like Dean's/Kerry's idea/plan/record/words is hardly an attack.

All serious Dem candidates better hone their oratory skills, including the negative ones, to take on the liar in thief.

If Kerry could learn to use those skills against the Bush* regime, well, we'd all benefit.

[dsc]

36. My question is:

After saying this:

"Real Democrats don´t walk away from the middle class,´´ the Massachusetts senator said. ``They don´t take away a tax credit for families struggling to raise their children or bring back a tax penalty for married couples who are starting out or penalize teachers and waitresses by raising taxes on the middle class.´´


How is he going to defend himself against charges that he is raising taxes on the rich by advocating that those tax cuts be recinded? Regardless of who is correct about these tax cuts (and I favor Dean here) calling the repeal of any part an increase in taxes as Kerry did will leave us open to the charge from Bush that we are increasing taxes. For this reason this is a very bad idea.

[Octafish]

38. Good point. It's what balanced the budget in 97.

The American people aren't all deluded. Even when it comes to tax policy. The majority also knows that to get rid of the red ink — Republican Red Ink — requires some money to come from somebody. Who's got the money, now that everybody's 401(k) and stock portfolios have been looted? Why, the rich, of course.