More how Osama hates gays

[Muddleoftheroad]

"(a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest."

And, apparently, he hates pretty much everything else as well.

[Catholic Sensation]

1. This sounds like Ralph Reed to me

[GiovanniC]

2. Weird...

If you take out the "homosexuality" part, it's like he's describing Republican hypocrites.

[Catholic Sensation]

5. take out homosexuality part?

take out the trading with interest part, and it's the RNC's talking points.

[ret5hd]

3. wow...another religious zealot that hates fornication,

homosexuality, intoxicants and gambling. well, at least our own bevy of zealots have no problem with usury. maybe that makes them much better.

not sure what your point is tho.

[Az]

4. He hates that which he believes is evil

Whom you would destroy you first make inhuman. You demonize them. You show them horrid actions taken upon your people and castigate all who do not accept your word on the matter. There is nothing new in this. It is true of any dogmatic authoratative system. The only saving grace our society has is it underwent a social revolution several hundred years ago that instilled the idea that we the people must determine our own path and not some self appointed authority claiming divine right to their leadership.

[Vladimir]

6. Osama

Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson really ought to get together for a tea-party sometime... oh and they should invite Scalia too after his lake of fire minority report on the Texas Sodomy laws...

V

[Cocoa]

7. and?

:shrug:

[Catholic Sensation]

8. well we shouldn't like him because he's homophobic

oh, and responsible for the murder of 3000 people and the potential re-election of Bush

[markses]

9. um...who didn't know this?

Osama bin Laden is a religious fanatic of the ascetic priest variety. Of course he hates bodily pleasure in all its forms.

Question is, who didn't know this?

Will muddleoftheroad next post a story about a dog biting a man, or that it is raining in Seattle? What gives, muddle? What gives?

[Catholic Sensation]

10. I wanted to post "The Pope is Catholic"

but I've done that before, and it wouldn't have been original, though I got the ball starting on how this resembles the right's view on the world ;)

[Muddleoftheroad]

11. This stems from another thread discussing some of his rant

And instead of people condemning it or being up in arms, all I see are smug comments and rationalizations.

If you think his comments read like Christian fundies, you know fundies I've never met.

[truthspeaker]

12. but you've heard of them

Ralph Reed, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Franklin Graham, Fred Phelps, Gary Bauer, just to name a few. They and Osama speak the same language, but they hate each other because they differ on a few details.

[Muddleoftheroad]

15. Major not minor differences

I don't see too many convert or die comments from them, do you?

[Trajan]

18. Not lately ...

But CERTAINLY not unprecedented ...

Funny how YOU, of all people, would suddenly forget about the christian propensity for forced conversion of non-christians ...

Gays ? ... hell: ... they were simply burned at the stake ...

Indeed ....

[Muddleoftheroad]

19. Most religions have GONE through that period

And are currently no threat to anyone.

Osame and company are part of an active movement of radical Islam (not most of Islam by far) that wants to turn the world into a Muslim state through forced conversion.

[Trajan]

25. Using this logic ...

We must simply bide our time, and await an 'enlightened' Islam to emerge ...

Why fight against the inevitable ? ...

[Muddleoftheroad]

29. I don't have a couple hundred years, do you?

[John BigBootay]

38. I think it's absolutely PREPOSTEROUS to compare--

Fundamental xtians in America to Fundamental Islamists in the ME.

Beyond a few very sporatic abortion clinic bombings and doctor assasinations throughout the years, xtians have conducted themselves very civilly.

I mean seriously-- take ANY extreme group in America, left or right, and you're going to find some violence, from ELF and others destroying property to the Weathermen shooting cops, even the left is NOT IMMUNE to the trappings of violence.

However, with the exception of McVeigh, there is simply no scourge of homegrown terrorism in America that compares to what Fundamental Islam is pushing. It just doesn't compare.

Yeah-- we've got some whack job ministers and pundits who sometimes say messed up things, but that is usually as far as it goes.

We need to come together a little bit more here in America. And I think what Muddle is trying to say here is that we have a greater enemy than xtians and republicans-- an enemy that doesn't just want to flex a bit more power in the senate or be able to pass it's laws more easily, but an enemy that is seeking to destroy Western civilization and remake it in the shape of fundamental Islam.

[DrWeird]

39. Let's see.

Christian terrorists in the US: Oklahoma city, Atlanta Olympics, numerous abortion clinic bombings. Numerous gay bashings. Thousands of african americans lynched by the christian terrorist organization KKK, Tulsa.

Muslim terrorists in the US: the first world trade center attack. September 11th.

Looks like the christians have got the muslims beat as far as terrorism in the US is concerned.

I see very little difference between fundamentalist christians and fundamentalist muslims.

[John BigBootay]

40. Then I hope your hatred for Radical Islam is at least equal

to your hatred of American Fundies.

[Az]

48. Its not so much how we feel about it

Its a question of how do we deal with it. Most people want to do the John Wayne thing and barge in kill all the bad guys and everyone lives happily ever after. Unfortunately in the real world when John Wayne barges in he is the bad guy to some of the people. They grow to hate John Wayne as much as others love him.

[Trajan]

41. Become an avid student of history ...

You might need to bone up on the Middle Ages ....

[Az]

45. Wanna compare Islam vs Christianity in history?

Keep in mind that Christianity has not always been this tamed. It has only been since the signing of the Magna Carta that the excesses of Christian dominance has been reigned in. For centuries people were slaughtered and kept in darkness because of dogmatic claims of authority. Books were kept from the people for fear of knoweldge. The bible itself was a banned book, its posession punishible by death. Only the clergy were allowed access to the printed word.

Modern Christianity is a far cry from what it once was. But you can still hear the cries from some of the fundimentalists for the return of their authority. The rejection of the necessity that is moral reletivism in a diverse society. The fear of different teachings and beliefs corrupting their beliefs. They are echoes of the dogma that once was.

[LeahMira]

24. Sure do...

I don't see too many convert or die comments from them, do you?

Who was it that blamed 9/11 on the people who get abortions and the gays, etc. in this country?

No, that's not convert or I will do away with you, but it sure sounds like convert or G-d will do away with you. It's no different... just passing the buck to G-d.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

32. Fred Phelps, Jack Chick

Not as smooth as the ones previously mentioned. But if you ask me, it's just a difference in tactics.

[truthspeaker]

33. "9/11 was caused by atheists and homosexuals"

is close enough to "convert or die" to me.

And General Boykin DID say "convert or die" (as well as "my god is bigger than your god").

Why do you defend those assholes? They give your faith a bad name.

[soleft]

35. Actually, isn't the whole fundie creed covert or be eternally damned?

Even Bush has said the only way to salvation is through Christ.

[DrWeird]

36. "invade their countries, kill their leaders, convert them to xianity."

- Ann Coulter.

So what happened? An evangelical terrorist invaded a predominately muslim country for no good reason, deposed the leader, and now a bunch of evangelical missionaries are in said country to convert the swarthy masses with promises of fresh drinking water.

[cprise]

14. Smug comments and rationalizations

...are not going to make us think any more highly of Christian fundamentalists.

Sorry, thanks for playin'

[Muddleoftheroad]

16. I couldn't care less on that point

But it would be nice for some folks to remember what Shariah law would mean in the U.S. or West in general.

That is what we are facing here. That is what radical Islam wants.

[cprise]

21. And who is going to do this

Patricia Ireland? Oprah Winfrey? Al Franken?

[Muddleoftheroad]

22. The whole terrorist alphabet soup

But starting with Osama. Then include Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc.

[cprise]

43. Ooooooo

"The Enemy Within"

I'll wake up one day with nothing but halal food in my cupboard. "Damn, I have to move to France now!"

All because UBL went on Jerry Springer with his heart on his sleeve.


"Mmmmmm... Sharia Law..." -Homer

:crazy:

[LeahMira]

20. What do you want?

And instead of people condemning it or being up in arms, all I see are smug comments and rationalizations.

What do you want? Of course this type of thinking does not represent the way I think and (hopefully) act. I'm sure it is anathema to you as well, and to everyone who is reading these posts.

Unfortunately, these statements of bin Laden that you quote have an all too familiar ring. They are not shocking because we all have heard them many, many times before... from our own citizens like Revs. Phelps, Robertson, Falwell, et al and certainly these kinds of statements are not vehemently and forthrightly rejected by our own Religious Resident-in-Thief!

Do you really think that people don't dislike hearing gay bashing from Osama as much as they dislike hearing it from our own "upstanding citizens"? I think that is the point. The very group that is so determined to end Al Qaeda seems to not have beliefs and visions for the future so different from Osama's.

What you are seeing and reading is nothing more than "tell me something I haven't heard before." Whether it's fundamentalist Christians or fundamentalist Muslims, the problem is the same. They see the world in the same ways, and to some extent (the ways that women are often used; has the U.S. ratified CEDAW?) they have a point.

If we are going to win the hearts of people throughout the world, we are going to have to be different from those who would oppress them. It's not a question of being a tad better or a tad freer or a tad more humane. We'd best clean up our own act before we try to demonstrate (not force, but demonstrate by example) that we have a better answer.

[Muddleoftheroad]

30. I would love to see gay bashing treated equally

I can't stand it personally.

So yes, let's treat the gay bashing in the West the same as the gay bashing in other areas like the Mideast -- where except for Israel, it's not even safe to be openly gay.

[kayell]

51. The thing is, that US gay bashers are not bashing because of anything

Osama has to say. They bash because of things that Falwell, or Robertson, or "fill in your favorite US fundie" say.

To bring up Osama's opinions on homosexuality is rather beside the point to the issue of prejudice against gays in the US. If we were discussing gay bashing in Afghanistan or Pakistan, it might be worth paying attention to, but Osama has essentially NO effect on gay bashing in the US.

Unless you want to start a thread specifically about gay treatment in hard-core fundamentalist Islam, this is just a wierd diversionary tactic. (and even then it is a wierd diversionary topic, that has almost no point of intersection with American social issues.)

[cprise]

55. No, no, no-- Gay bashers are Usama supporters!

LOL!

[kayell]

56. Send 'em to Gitmo!

Of course, how could I have been so blind? It is an obvious sign of their support of the dread infidel Osama. Bunch of terrorists all! (now that was the truth)

[cprise]

57. Great idea...

Hey Muddle, can I call on you for thorough and well-reasoned posts arguing for a sexual orientation clause in hate-crimes laws?

[cprise]

53. Of course you do

I'm sure its unbearable for you, what with all the articulate defenses you've posted in gay-themed threads. :eyes:

[kayell]

54. Snarf! nt

[Az]

26. Some examples

AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals. -- Jerry Falwell

Grown men should not be having sex with prostitutes unless they are married to them. - Jerry Falwell

I do not believe the homosexual community deserves minority status. One's misbehavior does not qualify him or her for minority status. Blacks, Hispanics, women, etc., are God-ordained minorities who do indeed deserve minority status. -- Rev. Jerry Falwell

We are engaged in a social, political, and cultural war. There's a lot of talk in America about pluralism. But the bottom line is somebody's values will prevail. And the winner gets the right to teach our children what to believe. -- Gary Bauer

Every once in a while, a great nation has to deal with a great issue. Millions of people understand that it's not bigotry to believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. -- Gary Bauer

Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free. -- Pat Buchanan


AIDS is nature's retribution for violating the laws of nature. -- Pat Buchanan

No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God. -- George Bush

Only Christianity offers a way to understand that physical and moral border. Only Christianity offers a comprehensive worldview that covers all areas of life and thought, every aspect of creation. Only Christianity offers a way to live in response to the realities that we find in this world -- only Christianity. -- Tom DeLay


Under no circumstances would I ever vote for an atheist because they are terrible no moral code. -- Star Jones

Atheists are the true criminals of society. -- Robert T. Lee

You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions but I don't have to be nice to them. -- Pat Roberts


We are now in the process of putting born-again Christians on every school board in America.... A school board with five members needs only three Christians to take complete control of a school district. You can literally own that system and control all personnel, curriculum, materials, textbooks and policies. -- Robert L. Simonds

I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good.... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism. -- Randall Terry

There is going to be war, take up the sword to overthrow the tyrannical regime that oppresses them. -- Randall Terry

When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we'll execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed. -- Randall Terry

Sodomy is a graver sin than murder. -- Unless there is life there can be no murder. -- Father David Trosch


Now of course there are those that do not agree with these sentiments. But ignoring that they have a very powerful voice in America is just hiding from the truth.

[markses]

27. Aaaaah smug comments

Like, Yaaah. Whatever.

First of all, if this thread refers to another thread, then you should have posted this in that thread.

But apparently, you want people to do the obvious: Condemn Osama bin Laden for his outrageous views on homosexuality, sexuality, gender, politics, child-rearing, animal husbandry, environmental conservation, drug dealing, education, secondary education, graduate education, university admittance policies, municipal enrichment, unionization, economic plans, urban sprawl and, last but not least, (and it would be a TOTAL OUTRAGE if DUers would refuse to be up in arms about this last item) his despicable take on the state of postmodern poetics! I succumb, Muddleoftheroad! I submit! I surrender! Thanks to your dour and somewhat oppressive earnestness, I have turned aside from my blind support of Osama bin Laden on all these points, and condemn him now wholeheartedly! I am up in arms! I despise Osama now (thanks to your posts here)! OH, SMEDLEY - bring the fucking aquavit, cuz the scales have fallen from my eyes, and it's Osama hating time in Lower Manhattan !!!!!!!!!!!!

Satisfied? Or is their a specific catechism that you absolutely insist upon in order to prove the deafeningly, stunningly obvious.

[GiovanniC]

37. Hilarious n/t

[ulysses]

59. heh

If you think his comments read like Christian fundies, you know fundies I've never met.

So it would seem.

[handywork]

13. wonderful

Ok cool I get it, so every time homosexuals engage in sexual activity they are fighting terrorism. Keep up the good work everyone and send a clear message to osama "we will not be frightened into submission"

[Muddleoftheroad]

17. LOL

In some way quite true.

I won't fight terror that way, but I think I'll have a beer and check out my NCAA brackets.

[handywork]

23. well

that sounds like a good idea as well

[RandomKoolzip]

28. Damn, I was all psyched to vote for Bin Laden in 04....

But if he's not for Gay Marriage, then I'll have to vote my conscience and go with LaRouche instead.

[DrWeird]

31. Sounds like Mel Gibson.

How unsurprising.

[radwriter0555]

34. interesting because the taliban outlawed the pederasty common to the NA

that is now back in power.

I do believe that is the point of reference.

But then, I don't believe this is a genuine letter....

[Paragon]

42. I bet he hates FReepers, too.

[Monte Carlo]

44. Trading with interest? I suppose he means usury.

The Catholic Church for years outlawed charging interest on loans, calling all interest usurious. Noble intentions, bad execution. I think Osama might come from the same school of thought.

[GiovanniC]

46. Well, As a Protest Against Bin Laden

I say that we should all be rude, unprincipled, dishonorable, impure, and should fornicate, get drunk, gamble, go on a shopping spree with the American Express, and for those of you who are so inclined, have homosexual sex.

Anything less, and the terrorists win.

[Muddleoftheroad]

47. I'm with you on much of that

:)

That's the warped take on things that I have grown to expect and love around here.

[tom_paine]

49. Sounds like Bin Laden shares much with his Bush Family partners

Busheviks and Bin Ladens hate America for the same reasons.

They hate our freedom.

[xultar]

50. Just like the RETHUGLICANS...n/t

[kayell]

52. And your point is?

Osama is a bad, bad guy? Cause I wasn't completely sure until now. :eyes:

[ulysses]

58. thereby triangulating pro-gay DUers

with the site's significant "pro-Osama" lobby...?

What does this have to do with anything?