Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Can someone explain Occam's Razor for me?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 05:58 PM
Original message
Can someone explain Occam's Razor for me?
TIA!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
oostevo Donating Member (293 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. In its very oversimplified version ...
Edited on Thu Mar-25-04 06:00 PM by oostevo
A monk decided long ago that the simplest answer (the simplest way to explain data) is the most likely to be true.

For a more in-depth look,
http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mike Niendorff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. All other things being equal ...

... the simplest explanation is usually the best.


MDN

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. basically it means
the simplest answer is usually the correct answer.

Handy if you don't have time for nuance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drhilarius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. i think
when several possibilities offer a solution to a problem or situation, the simplest is most often the correct one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. It goes like this:

If you have two theories (or any number) that might explain a set of observations, then the simplest theory is generally the best one to choose.

Paraphrasing Einstein: A theory should be as simple as possible, but no simpler.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Welcome to DU, e j e and drhilarious
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's the antithesis to LIHOP and MIHOP
That's all you need to know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Would that be Bush's Razor?
Meaning the most complicated and convoluted answer is probably the correct one?

:evilgrin:



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. You got it
:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. not only that ...
The creepiest, scariest answer!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. which is obviously not sharp
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. the simplist solution to a problem has the greatest likelihood...
...of being correct.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Of course we would have no theory of relativity were that so
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Salviati Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. not really...
Because although Newtonian mechanics is simpler than relativistic mechanics, it fails to explain all the observed phenomena, thus it can't possibly be right. Of course this goes for pretty much every theory in physics, including relativity, they all fall apart somewhere, but that doesn't mean that they aren't useful where they do apply...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. The simplest answer is likely the right one...
essentially
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChickMagic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. When you hear hoofbeats
Think horses, not zebras! According to my Biology professors.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Unless you're in Africa
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChickMagic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Good one!
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NWHarkness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. In a nutshell
It is the principle that the answer to any question that requires one makes the fewest assumption in order to be true is the answer most likely to be true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. Choose the simplest explanation
Edited on Thu Mar-25-04 06:06 PM by nothingshocksmeanymo
The one requiring the least leaps of logic.
If you hear the sound of hooves outside your window it is more likely horses than Zebras...the problem is that you might be in Africa where that is not necessarily true, so it results often in over simplifying.

Same when people use Occam's to deny God's existance since to do so one has to make assumptions as well.

Usually on DU, it's used as an assault weapon rather than a theory.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zero Gravitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. not really.
Occam's razor does not often result in over-simplifying. If you are in Africa then thinking that the hoofbeats are Zebras is not a more complicated explanation than thinking its horses. The over-simplification in your example is forgetting that you're in Africa.

A more complicated explanation would be that Bush secretly put horse-shoes on a bunch of elephants and trained them to pretend to be horses masquerading as Zebras. If the alternate theory is that (given that we're in Africa) its actually a herd of Zebras, then Occam's Razor would indicate that the herd of Zebras explanation is more likely to be correct than the other.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. Occam was the first man to invent the safety razor
Edited on Thu Mar-25-04 06:05 PM by Cronus
Prior to that, everyone was using open razors that were very dangerous and could be used to slit someone's throat. So Occam, a Persian king, had a razor made that could only cut to the skin surface and could not be used to slit his throat, thus ensuring that his barber couldn't use the implement to kill him.

He should have patented it - he would have made millions.

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
21. Wikipedia is a great resource for this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_Razor

The principle is most often expressed as Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem, or "Entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity", but this sentence was written by later authors and is not found in Occam's surviving writings. William wrote, in Latin, Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate, which translates literally into English as "Plurality should not be posited without necessity".

Dave Beckett of the University of Kent at Canterbury writes: "The medieval rule of parsimony, or principle of economy, frequently used by Ockham came to be known as Ockham's razor." <1>

Occam's Razor has also been referred to as "parsimony of postulates" and the "principle of simplicity" and "K.I.S.S." (keep it simple, stupid). Another proverb expressing the idea that is often heard in medical schools is, "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras." Like many maxims, it has deficiencies; African doctors are not well advised to follow it.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
23. A very simple and good method.. for simple minded people.
things are RARELY SIMPLE. it just too convient for the robber barrons and fascists to rationalize with.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. no, not really
It's one of the guiding forces in the scientific method, which is neither simple nor simplistic.

It doesn't say the simplest explanation of anything is correct. It says the theory that requires the fewest extraneous postulates and STILL DESCRIBES the phenomenon is the best.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. sounds like typical NEOCON crap...
i know how it is supposed to be used... but not how the right wing does use it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. LOL!!
An explanation of Occam's Razor is "neocon crap"? ROFL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Snow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
26. Then there's Holmes' Razor....
let's see if I can do this:

"When the impossible has been eliminated, what is left, however improbable, must be true."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
foo_bar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
27. the simplest explanation of Occam's Razor isn't necessarily correct
Plurality is not to be assumed without necessity.

...is all he wrote. Here's a better historical explanation than the Wikipedia:
http://www.weburbia.demon.co.uk/physics/occam.html

"Nature operates in the shortest way possible."
- Aristotle
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 05th 2024, 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC