Any other evangelical dems out there?

[Dob Bole]

Are there an awful lot of evangelical Christian democrats left, or has everyone run mindlessly toward the bright light that is Jerry Falwell? To me, Democrats are better at a lot of things that I believe in: helping the poor, abolishing the death penalty, etc-things that Jesus taught. So let's brainstorm- how do we bring evangelicals back into the Democratic fold, because that IS going to be an important concern if the Democratic Party ever wants to make a comeback. Why? They are disproportionately located in the South, that's why.

Dob

[Az]

1. Remind them that

Seperation of church and state is there to protect them as well.

[mopaul]

2. amen to that

my mom and dad are evangelical democrats, but i am not religious.
i always thought they were a little odd, because the evangelicals are often thought of as being strictly republicans. but before they became evangelicals, they were already life long democrats.

however, my mom is particularly given to the dark side of religion.
focusing on the negative aspects and hatred for all other religions.
i wish more people like yourself could have a calming and positive affect on the right wing evangelicals. we need them on our side.

[realFedUp]

3. I always wonder how evangelicals can listen to hate radio...

isn't that an oxymoron?

[Dob Bole]

4. It should be an oxymoron...

Now that you mention it, that is a HUGE part of the problem. People like Falwell have a monoopoly on media...they bankroll all sorts of religious radio programming, and then throw in Republican-oriented "news." As a result, I know people who really believe in Welfare and Universal Health Care who consistently vote Republican because they've been had.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

5. me too!

And many of them can be made to see the light too!

[Liberator_Rev]

6. Here we are, Bob !

As you probably know, Bob, the word "Christian" is almost as bad a word in Liberal circles as "Liberal" is in Conservative circles, because the kind of "Christians" who get all the publicity and notoriety are the "Religous Right". We "Liberals Like Christ" have been trying to change all that, but it's not easy because the "Religious Right" is aligned with the rich and the powerful - which gives them all kinds of access to mass media of all forms and WE are aligned with the poor and the powerless. ( and people bitch and complain if we dare use the little access we have to the internet to promote "Liberals Like Christ".)

As for "evangelicals", in its purest form that should mean "gospel-believers", but in America (as opposed to England), too often it translates into "epistle-believers" and followers of Paul, rather than Christ.

SO when you say, "To me, Democrats are better at a lot of things that I believe in: helping the poor, abolishing the death penalty, etc-things that Jesus taught." you sound like a "Liberal Like Christ" and I invite you to work with us to "bring evangelicals (if that means followers of Christ) back into the Democratic fold, because that IS going to be an important concern if the Democratic Party ever wants to make a comeback."

I think you'll really appreciate our
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/democrats &
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/graphs pages.
See how much OTHERS like it at http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/testimonials.htm .



at http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org .
WE are the Answer to the "Christian Coalition" & "Religious Right" .
YOU are the way to get the word out, because unlike THEM,
WE are the friends of the POOR and the downtrodden,
who can't give US the kind of support that
the RICH give to our opponents.

[Terwilliger]

8. There's nothing wrong with being a Christian

I just don't like MANY of them

[Colin Ex]

15. There's something wrong with

being a Christian who is a) an asshole to people who disagree with your beliefs (see hell threats, etc) and b) being the fanatic recruiter.

The people who do fall under that give the rest a bad rap. C'est la vie.

[blondeatlast]

75. There are atheists on the board who fall under A as well.

nm

[Tinoire]

23. You like me don't you???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

:shrug:

I LIVE to torment you! :)

[Terwilliger]

87. awwwwwwwwwwwwww

You're not a bad Christian! You have strong opinions but you wont judge me, or anyone else, for not believing as you do.

BIG difference :-)

[Blue_Chill]

50. lol

:D

[Pastiche423]

51. A person is born black

A person is not born christian.

Bad analogy.

[Blue_Chill]

64. I edited my post

long ago. I didn't feel like starting another flame war.

[Terwilliger]

88. you changed your avatar again

How about Malcolm X next? HE was a very religious person.

[JohnKleeb]

27. I wouldnt call you evanglical more mainline protestant

than anything.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

7. I grew up evangelical

Our family left our church because it was taken over by PAID Republican operatives - yes I'm serious. My dad, a life-long Dem, walked out when they told him he needed to be a Republican to be a good Christian.

The problem with the independent Protestant churches in America is their funding - everyone is giving 10%, so that means the majority of the money is coming from whoever the richest people in the community are, and the ministers know well enough who is paying their salary.

[Dob Bole]

9. Thanks

for the Liberals like Christ site. On the contention about everybody paying 10%, though, only the really faithful do it, people who are more likely to want to help the poor, no matter what their income is. There aren't any stinking rich people in the rural South.

The evangelical vote is, I think, why the Gore camp didn't completely wipe Bush off the face of the earth, while Clinton won twice. Gore lost every southern state once he decided to just not bother. Jimmy Carter, an evangelical, won the whole thing. Clinton, who only courted the suburban ones, won half of it twice. While Gore decided that it would be corny for him to talk with anybody about these kinds of issues, the Texecutioner put on his best fake smirk and gave exclusive interviews to all kinds of Christian publications. Gore barely registered above 10% of evangelical voters. This is not good. We have to now regain ground that I think most Democrats are unaware that we have lost.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

10. I have nothing to do with that site

liberallikechrist is not me at all.

It's not just stinking rich - look at a local protestant church, and you will find business owners doing a lot of the funding, and they have a serious influence on the policies of the church.

The Republicans boldly interfere with Protestant churches for politics, and never seem to get called on it.

Listen to people here at DU, and they are saying that the Dems can win without Christians, and even without white males.

[Dob Bole]

13. Not all white males...

Many evanglicals are black. Where do you think Bush's 10% of black votes came from? Aside from that point, though, Southern rural white males are natural Democrats, unlike white males in Utah or Wyoming. Many have Native American or Cajun ancestry, are reliant in some way or another on agriculture, and are sympathetic to the poor, having lived among people who survived the Great Depression. The reason that they're starting to vote Republican, against their own interests, is
because as you said

a)Republicans are interfering in the churches. Look at the SBC lately.

b)also as you said, the "We don't need you" attitude that draws from misconceptions about Southerners. Say that again if five more southern senators are hung out to dry in 2004, as the Republicans are planning to do.

[Liberator_Rev]

19. We have a page that addresses that very issue:

We have a page that addresses that very issue, namely the reason
that churches have to do the bidding of "the highest bidders"
("He who pays the piper calls the tunes.") :
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Challenge

[Sophree]

11. Have you been to Ray's site above?

Liberals Like Christ? He has a whole section about the Christian Coalition conspiracy to take over churches and get people to vote Repuke.

I've heard many stories like your father's. The right wing claim on Christianity is a myth and a lie. You know it's bad when people stop going to church because of political persecution!

[Liberator_Rev]

16. Actually here is the link in question:

What Sophree is referring to is a link on my site http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/coalition.htm which takes you to a great site by "the Religious Freedom Coalition of the Southeast" that exposes the techniques of the "Christian Coalition" to subvert churches. (One of the things which it shows is that they are infinitely more successful than Liberals because they have volunteers that get off their butts and work like crazy for their cause.)

[Sophree]

18. Good point

"(One of the things which it shows is that they are infinitely more successful than Liberals because they have volunteers that get off their butts and work like crazy for their cause.)"

People misunderstand your efforts here quite a bit. Don't be discouraged! There are many Christians who hate the way their religion has been hijacked by the right wing, but who may also be turned off by perceived or real anti-Christian animousity by the left. Let's bring all true Christians into the fold!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

12. I keep saying

that some enterprising newspaper reporter should investigate the funding and political orientation of the fundamentalist megachurches that are springing up full-grown on the outskirts of every American city.

If my suspicions are true, then they should lose their tax exemption for pushing partisan politics. If contributions to DU can't be deductible as charitable contributions, because the site owners openly support the Democratic Party, then contributions to fundamentalist churches that distribute Republican voters' guides should not be deductible either.

I'm not an evangelical, but I am an Episcopalian, and it hurts to see Jesus' message distorted by the modern day Pharisees.

[midnitemoleman]

14. At your service :)

I am a minister and very pro dem. How can anyone claim that Christ would be on the side of the rich and horrible? Problem is most minister's I know like Bush because he spoke out about sex. A sin but one that is not about politics. Bush kills just for policics and money no other justification comes from the great deciver does it?

[Liberator_Rev]

17. Have you checked us out, Rev.

If you haven't already do so, I hope you will soon check us out and see if you want to join in our efforts to persuade Christians to be "Liberals Like Christ" and in America today, Liberal Democrats.


at http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org .
WE are the Answer to the "Christian Coalition" & "Religious Right" .
YOU are the way to get the word out, because unlike THEM,
WE are the friends of the POOR and the downtrodden,
who can't give US the kind of support the RICH give to THEM

[Pastiche423]

20. Sex is a sin?

[Az]

22. I am always curious

About how individuals balance their convictions and faith within a pluralistic society. This is particularly interesting where a person has a belief that an eternity of hurt awaits those that fail to live up to a standard. I am curious as to how you strike your balance on this matter. If I am not asking too much of you.

[Sirius_on]

53. Not all Christians believe in Hell

The same thing with heaven. I particularly dont believe in either, and I am a Christian. Its all in the way you read the scriptures.

[Az]

57. That is the basis of

the Universalists crede. The early form of Universalism (before they merged with the Unitarians) postulated that the salvation offered by Jesus was for everyone. Period. There were no clauses. There were no conditions. Hell was dispelled. There is an atheist Teeshirt that would go well with such a belief. It states simply "Smile, there is no Hell".

PS Unfortunately I know there is a Hell having been there a number of times on vacation. .... Ok so its Hell Michigan but I still get a vicarious kick out of it. :evilgrin:

[Sirius_on]

62. Right next to Pinckney

My parents live 10 minutes from it. I have been there many times. There are nice horseback stables in the area and a large mortorcycle gathering once a year.

[Az]

66. Buzzardfest

The motorcycle gathering used to be called the Buzzardfest. However a new town council decided they wanted to turn Hell into something a bit more marketable. They are trying to turn Hell into the MI Holloween center (think Frankenmuth but orange). To this end they changed the name of the festival to something more attractive to families. They changed it to Hellfest..... No really. Cool party but I'm not sure about the marketing.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberator_Rev]

28. As much as I dislike the Republican party

In all due respect, I am embarrassed for DU to have a member DUMB enough to say "it takes a distinct lack of it (intelligence) to be a christian and/or a republican". I only hope that you are young enough to have some growth left in you.

[drdigi420]

35. more personal attacks, nice

seems to be the typical pattern once peoples' superstitions are challenged

[Liberator_Rev]

54. Offended, are we?

Drdigi calls EVERYBODY who is either Christian and/or Republican DUMB, (and that includes MANY members of DU, and just about everybody in this thread until he/she arrived) and that is OK in his lights.

But if anybody questions HIS/HER intelligence that is shameful !!!

Sorry BUB, but you need to learn a thing or two from people who live in glass houses.

[Sirius_on]

55. Dont listen to him....hes excited due to it being 16 mins to 4:20

Second of all, he claims to be condemning personal attacks after attacking 80% of the U.S population.

[drdigi420]

58. man, cant you read?

i attacked NOONE

i simply stated the fact that i believe religion is evil in and of itself.

[Az]

61. The difference is difficult to percieve

Most people that consider themself a part of a religion do not see a difference between attacking them or their religion. They will percieve your comment about religion being evil as saying that any that act in the name of religion are evil as well.

[Blue_Chill]

65. There is no difference

If I say Atheists are all idiots and Atheism is evil, you would be cool with that?

[Az]

67. No

I would not be cool with that anymore than I am cool with calling any group of people evil. For one thing I happen to believe that most people are basically good. Are you ok with that? ;-)

[Terwilliger]

91. only religious folks think in terms of evil

I don't think anything is evil.

[Pastiche423]

60. 80%????

That is not true.

[JohnKleeb]

63. I would say 80% of the population is religious in someway maybe I am wrong

One thing I know I am not wrong about is how athiesm is the frontier that is of suffering discrimination. it really sucks I believe in god but I respect their right not to believe if they so choose.

[Terwilliger]

90. John

fact of the matter is, religion (especially the Christian variety) PERVADES the American experience. I have to see that cross every other few blocks...and there are VERY few Atheist Houses of Fellowship.

You say that 80% are religious, so I hope you can see that atheists and like-minded folks are VERY MUCH in the minority. They have the same right to believe what they want, without 80% of the people deciding that they haven't said enough "Hail Mary's" for their sins.

[blondeatlast]

78. The atheists on the board can be as judgmental as the Christians.

I don't care if you believe or don't believe and I would rather chew off my arm than try to convert ANYONE. You won't change my mind, I won't change yours.

Liberator Rev, I know about LLC--I'm just not interested in proselytizing, thanks.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. It takes a distinct capacity for ignorance to group ALL people into one

neat category. Please explain how Jimmy Carter, a Southern Baptist and Christian with advanced training in nuclear physics and who has written 17 books with no ghostwriter since leaving office is ignorant.

If you are demonstrating ignorance on the part of anyone...it is pure projection.

[drdigi420]

34. Carter used the religion of people for political gain

Some intelligent people are fooled into believing that a magic man in the sky controls everything, but most arent.

I stand by my statement.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

39. Please explain how and when he did. I thought maybe he used his

experience in high level naval intelligence and his position as a former governor. Stand by your statement all you wish. Some people go to their death with their ignorance.

[blondeatlast]

79. Excellent point.

nm

[Blue_Chill]

59. It never fails

You simply can't identify yourself as religious on DU without getting attacked.

Perhaps this is a good example of why the Christians are leaving the left. People like this are actively driving them away.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. The first order of business would be to start a grass roots movement in

the Southern Baptist church to steal it back from the cabal of conservatives who took it over in 1996. Create a groundswell movement in the church much like the Catholics have done with their church. THere was a documentary ran on FREESPEECHTV demonstrating how the 96 Southern Baptist convenetion forced out reasonable peopple such as Jimmy Carter. i am certain if Carter were approached by a group of Christian liberal evangelicals with support he would want to be helpful in this regard.

[drdigi420]

25. religion is evil

without religion there is peace

[Az]

26. Chill dude

Wrong place for the wrong battle.

[drdigi420]

38. wasnt looking for a battle

just answering the question

[Liberator_Rev]

45. Embarrassing ally, isn't he, AZ ?

Just as we Christian's are embarrassed by our fundies, you have your "crosses to bear" as well!

[Az]

52. Actually the question I asked earlier

may have provided some insite for any who seek to balance absolute beliefs with pluralistic societies. This may have been of value to our young firebrand here.

The thing is if you expect the human race to be perfect then everyone better be in agreement. If not then those who are wrong are the spoilers. Evil if you will. Thus from a frothing fundimentalist (religious right variety) point of view atheists, heathens, pagans, etc are evil. From an atheists point of view who expects people to be perfect those that are touched by theistic beliefs appear to be tainted. Drawing from the notion of love the sinner but hate the sin the individual will hate the religion for its blinding affect on the believer. Being that an expectation of perfection means that any percieved lie is detrimental to desired perfection.

Alas this world is a bit more convoluted than some would like. People are only perfect at being people. Understanding the world around us is a daunting task. Expecting everyone to get it right is perhaps a bit much. It is certainly a noble pursuit but to expect it to get there by force is foolish. We are all in this boat together. Struggling to get the paddles aimed in the right direction. Its better to work for a better understanding of each other and then hope to walk together towards a better understanding of truth than it is to insist we each have the only truth.

[blondeatlast]

83. Az, I'm becoming a fan from the opposite side.

I think you realize that there is a vast difference between a spiritual belief and an organized religion. You seem to have taken the time to think out why people believe.

I appreciate that.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. I love people who speak in generalizations. They demonstrate their

capacity for multi-dimensional thought brilliantly. Please explain how Martin Luther King, a minister was evil.

[JohnKleeb]

31. he wasnt evanglical though

He was a baptist minister.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

32. So what? The post I was responding to didn't care to distinguish.

[JohnKleeb]

33. I just realized that thanks NSMA

nevermind IMO there are good and bad in all religions including athiesm. I'll use Catholicism as an example ok John F Kennedy was a good Catholic but John Schimitz a leader of the John Birch Society was not and Judaism Louis Branditz the first Jew on Supreme Court was a good Jew and Richard Perle is not. I could go on and on. There are good and bad in all religions including Athiesm I would prefer Pope John Paul II a Catholic to Benito Mussolini, an Athiest.

[drdigi420]

37. Once again, i didnt say any person was evil

only religion, which is evil because it removes earthly accountability in favor of fictional dieties.

[JohnKleeb]

41. religion can be a beauty too if it is used right

You cant put all religions in to same box. Maybe you didnt blame one person but still you are wrong. Religion isnt evil it can give us hope and understanding. One doesnt need religion but if you need religion so be it.

[blondeatlast]

84. So why are you attacking the belief, not the religion? Not the same thing.

nm

[Dob Bole]

69. baptist= evangelical

[drdigi420]

36. I didn't say Martin Luther King was evil

Please READ my post next time before you get all reactionary and emotional.

[JohnKleeb]

40. and I quote

religion is evil


without religion there is peace


What if you use religion to promote peace. I wouldnt say that nesscary. Maybe without class or race there is peace because that conflict in Northern Ireland is about economics not religion as it is commonly thought religion plays a role but its economics.

[drdigi420]

42. fooling people is wrong

The end doesnt justify the means.

Peace is much easier without religion.

Nuff said

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

48. LOL I suspect if we put you in charge of a coalition to form the peace

with your attitude towards alienating the religious, all hell would break loose within nanoseconds....while you can moan that this is a personal attack, I don't think I should be compelled by DU rules to avoid commenting on your very obvious behavior on this thread.

You speak in one sentence truisms as though because you said so everyone should buy it. I accept that there are some things I can't know in this lifetime and that science WON'T answer. I accept that science no matter how logical it's conclusions were has been wrong. You are religious in your atheism to the point of being *gasp* evangelical about it!

This person started the thread to bring those whose very religious beliefs SHOULD favor liberals (if they really were studying Christ's words) back into the fold. You join and immediately begin to divide the thread. Please explain how that creates peace.

[blondeatlast]

85. Nope, not 'nuff said.

I'll give you the following, okay?

Corruption is evil, right?
Religion is OFTEN corrupted, right?

Please answer specifically; I'm hoping for an intelligent debate here.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

43. He is simply using semantics to obscure his hatred

While I have no bone to pick with atheists, hatred is hatred whether under the mantle of God or Michael Schwermer cut and paste morons.

[drdigi420]

44. hatred?

i don't hate anyone

there is no hate here, just facts

fact is: religion causes pain and suffering

Why you have to hate on me for that?

[JohnKleeb]

47. I dont hate you but I think calling religion evil is wrong

Religion causes problems I agree but then again Athiesm doesnt exactly mean peace and harmony Mussolini was an athiest.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

49. "religion causes pain and suffering"

False cause - no logic...no other response. I don't hate you but I admit I am annoyed by your sound bites.

[blondeatlast]

86. I don't hate anyone, why do you think that I do?

I, personally have not attacked you in any way, shape, or form on this thread, and I won't.

However, when my (or anyone's, even yours) beliefs are attacked in broad generalizations, I will mount a defense.

Nobody's wrong, nobody's right.

Of course, it should be clear that I am not evangelical.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blondeatlast]

81. Explain, please?

You cannot just leave it at that.

[Blue_Chill]

46. I think we need to get the message out that

Democrats are more in tune with Jesus' teachings then the GOP. Stress greed and show how it has effected the world.

[LWolf]

68. I don't think you're going to find many

evangelicals on the left. Probably plenty of ecumenicals, though. The difference being that one side matches a republican "world view" better...one-size-fits all, my way or the highway, I'm right and everybody else is wrong. The other fits the "big tent" of the democrats; there can be many paths to the same destination, tolerance for diversity, etc.

If you are looking for left-leaning christians, besides librev's group, you might try the orthodox (not roman) catholic church, or the unitarians.

[Dob Bole]

70. I guess that answers my question

There aren't very many, at least who post here. With all due repect, I had the courtesy to not say things like, "Athiests are wrong. They fool people. They're mean hateful liars." I would only ask the same courtesy in the future.

Peace,

Dob

[JohnKleeb]

71. that athiest is actually an exception

Cant confirm but many of his critics are athiest. Not me being Catholic and all. I will defend the Athiests if I have to but I dont have to here that often.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

72. But in fairness to this community Dob, there also weren't very many

that responded in that manner so I don't think you got your answer. I answered you very respectfully. I would request that you not base your conslusions on what is mainly ONE RUDE poster who really ought to get his ass kicked off for his disruptive behavior.

[TheBigGuy]

73. I have some "issues" w. evangelical Xtianity...

....mainly becuase Im gay and the evangelical community seems to be pretty much antigay.

Yet I have to say that my former Congressman, Tony Hall, was a born-again Christian and he was VERY solid on labor issues and humanitarian issues.

I think Jimmy Carter was also an evangelical Christian, and I think that animated his "human rights" policy and his work with Habitat For Humanity after he left office...and he did win the Nobel Prize.

So while I, personally, am not that fond of evangeilcal Christianity for personal reasons I dont see how they should be totally alienated from the Democratic Party...I think the spirit of Christian charity, concern for the poor, values like tolerance and understanding those different from oneself (like in the parable of the Good Samaritan), and the Sermon on the Mount, and "Blessed are the Peacemakers" probably is closer to where the Democrats are coming from than the Republicans.

[Dob Bole]

74. You're right....

both of the last two posters. The community has been VERY respectful in answering my question. I think I'll be sticking around.

As far as the evangelical community being antigay, that is because the media often classifies "evangelical" or "born again" in the same group as fundamentalists, whose goal is to reformat the Bible into our nation's laws. I have several friends who are gay, some of whom are also Christians. Yes, Jimmy Carter is one. I live about 10 miles away from him, so I honor him with my avatar. Bono also is evangelical, from the rock band U2. They are also not fundies. There is a difference.

[Az]

76. Jimmy Carter is simply the greatest living elderstatesman around

Actions speak volumes. Carters' actions speak of a truly honorable man in touch with the people.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

77. Thanks I was hoping you'd reconsider your conclusions

I believe in freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion. I have no issue with evangelicals and even have a wonderful time at a local gospel brunch...I love the music, the religion isn't my brand but they are quite inspiring and uplifting.

I notice the rudest poster on this thread needs pot to fix his head...why am I not surprised ( nothing against pot but it does lead to unconscious thoughtlessness when consumed by people who already have a propensity towards it.)

[Terwilliger]

89. ...

:hi:

I notice the rudest poster on this thread needs pot to fix his head

Can I use that? That's Seussian!

[inthecorneroverhere]

80. me, sorta

I am not an evangelical.

However, I believe in right and wrong and am not in the 'moral relativist' camp.

I get plenty of stares from liberals because I'm conservative on most family-type issues.

I support :dem:'s on labor and environmental issues and on foreign affairs.

[Cocoa]

82. the dems are paying attention to this

Terry McAuliffe was in a southern state recently, it might have been North Carolina, mildly reprimanding them for the 2002 results. He said that throughout the south the dems have to challenge the republicans on their own turf, and mentioned churches specifically.

[shugah]

92. bringing them back

(great post, by the way, Dob)

from personal experience: i've just asked my friends who are evangelical or fundamentalist to research a little bit to make sure that they are voting in the way that most truly reflects what they believe. one friend thanked me for requesting that, and guess what? voted for the dem!

i think it's true that christians who subscribe to the gospels of christ should be voting left-ish. i don't understand why they don't. :shrug:

welcome to DU! for a "religion thread" you've actually had a very civil discourse (believe it or not!)

[blondeatlast]

93. Amen! Easy now, no offense intended . . .

nm

[shugah]

94. no offense taken!

despite the "rights" on the eight-fold path, there is no right way to enlightment. we all just get there on our own... eventually! ;-)

[Sweetpea]

95. Rev Al said

when a christian woman was attacking him for being pro choice at a rally, he realized there was a difference between the Christian Right and being the right Christian.