Bush: LIHOP or MIHOP?

[neoteric lefty]

With all the information out there already, and that has come out in recent days, I think it is unbelievably hard to say that Bush was an innocent bystander during 9/11. I am still leaning that he let it happen without full knowledge of what was going to occur. I think Bush began somewhat as a pawn in this whole mess and the real control was with Cheney, Wolfey, and others. I just don't see him being this hawkish from the beginning. I think some high-up neocons came to him as Texas gov. and said, "Do you want to be president? We can make it happen. Just follow what we tell you to do."

I know I am not an expert on all the evidence out there, so I cannot say that I am without doubt either way. All I know is that something sure does stink in Crawford, Texas and I hope everyone finds out the truth before November.

[GregW]

1. Neither - it's tinfoil hat crap

:eyes:

[neoteric lefty]

4. so you feel that

the administration just kinda sit around and a terrorist attack just happened? I am not trying to be cynical or sarcastic in the least. I wish you would elaborate your reply. I would love to hear everyone's opinion.

[myopic4141]

13. LIHOP

Those who let the terrorist attack happen may not have known the end result would be a terrorist attack of such magnitude. Foreknowledge of a skyjacking does not necessarily mean foreknowledge of using aircraft as missiles. Shrubby certainly is incapable of conceiving such usage because he is a self made intellectual eunuch. Dr Rice was the first to express ignorance of skyjacked aircraft usage shortly after 11Sep01 (which was parroted by Shrubby soon after). Denial of a skyjacking automatically implies lack of usage knowledge while the converse in not true (one can know of a skyjacking without knowing usage). It struck me as an odd form of denial by individuals known for precise usage of language. As Dr Rice stated in her testimony today (8Apr04), skyjackings were believed to be only for hostage taking (also mentioned by other supporters of Shrubby). Equally amazing is the lack of tree shaking to glean information once some sort of plot was suspected. LIHOP is possible, even plausible; but, it is doubtful about MIHOP.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

5. Oh, I don't think so.

[Delano]

18. I hate this kind of post

I essentially agree, but I hate this dismissive "tinfoil hat" attitude.

The Bushies have demonstrated that they are amoral enough to do such a thing. There are a great many suspicious things in the 9-11 timeline and the way the Bushies behaved.

I personally don't see that there is enough there to accuse them of LIHOP or MIHOP, butI can see how a perfectly sane, rational person would interpret those facts differently.

3/4 of Americans do NOT believe the Warren Commission's findings, and that there was more than one gunman. I don't pretend to know what happened that day, but do you think all thosse people are "tinfoil hatters"? Personally, I think a healthy skepticism of one's government AT ALL TIMES is a sign of SANITY. Believing something simply because the government says it is the definition of insanity.

[mouse7]

22. In a crimanal case, you investigate all with motive and opportunity

It's certainly not "tin foil crap" to say the most powerful person on the planet has the most opportunity to do a crime inside the border of the United States. Any President would have more opportunity to do so than an Islamic extremist ina caave halfway around the world.

So... motive? The PNAC documents are common knowledge. We know the neo-cons believed they needed a "Pearl Harbor-type" event to embark on their palns to dominate the Middle East. We also have a new phrase from the President's mouth. "No more swatting flies." The President didn't want to be bothered with investigating and catching individual terrorists. He wanted to atack the source of terrorism in the Middle East. We also know Bush was looking for a reason to invade Iraq from the first days of his administration from both Clarke and O'Neill's books.

That's motive and opportunity.

It is not "tin foil crap" to demand that all those with motive and opportunity be investigated. It's called standard criminal investigation procedure. There are legimate questions that need to be asked, and people are not insane for expecting that the same rules that are used to investigate someone getting their car stereo stolen from their car be followed for the greatest tragedy in US history.

[MrSlayer]

2. Made it Happen.

Engineered and executed it.

[wtmusic]

3. Neither -- it's LIHTSI

Let It Happen Through Sheer Ineptitude

[neoteric lefty]

6. that is how I used to feel

Bush was just so incompetent at his job of protecting the U.S. that 19 men brought the world's greatest superpower to its knees. But, the stuff I have read has made me shift from that opinion. But I make no judgements on your opinion.

[wtmusic]

10. Then you must have been to wtc7.com

?

[neoteric lefty]

11. you mean wtc7.net?

I have read about it all and it seems interesting. No smoking gun but it just adds to theories out here against Bush.

[wtmusic]

12. yes, wtc.net

Not so interesting to me--conclusions were bent to fit the hypotheses so not much of value there.

[neoteric lefty]

16. yeah

there is no real evidence that shows a controlled demolitions happend over just destruction caused by the weight of debris. At least not yet. I am not in the camp who believe that the pentagon was hit by a missle or the WTC was a controlled demolition. Show me some hard evidence and I will be happy to look over it and judge it for myself. There doesn't seem to be much hard evidence that Bush made it happen. A lot of theories and speculation but I need evidence.

[radfringe]

21. you got it -- wtmusic

and then all he did was JBI-SOA (Jaw Bone It and Sit On A$$)

[bpilgrim]

7. this whole admin was HOSTILE from the BEGINING

just review the record it tells the tale, they were pulling out of treaties left and right, UNILATERAL from jump.

shoot, they didn't need to see UBL's memo to guilty of LIHOP. if they knew something BIG was comming down and they choose to look the other way, which appears OBVIOUS right now, they are GUILTY of LIHOP at minimum.

peace

[mot78]

8. Neither, but happened due to major stupidity

But in their world it was the almighty Clenis.

[Selwynn]

9. Depraved Indifference.

[w13rd0]

14. LIHOP with...

...enabling. They let it happen, and they enabled the terrorists. This nonsense about sheer ineptitude is just that, nonsense. Look at their history, look at the way they've reacted to questions, investigations. The bag and grab attitude, as if they know the house of cards will come tumbling.

Prison is too good for them.

[Snoggera]

15. MITH

My take is that with all their "mafia" types ingratiating themselves with everyone, everywhere, they picked a couple of likely stooges out of a hat they pulled out of their asses.

They, in my studious, yet humble opinion, Manipulated It To Happen.

edit: want to add that LIHOP implies they were basically passive about the events that others wanted to happen. I don't believe this to be the case. MIHOP implies they had control over all the events, and I don't believe this to be the case either. They are, however, extremely adept at manipulation.

[Delano]

17. LIHOP, but...

...only that in his administration's singular focus on defense-sector pork and energy scams, they let it happar through sheer inattention and incompetence. Don't get me wrong, there are some really bad folks in this group, and many of them no doubt WOULD deliberately let such a thing happen, but I don't think it's the case. The Bushies have not demonstrated the competence to pull such a thing off, and everything pointing to a deliberate LIHOP is flimsy and circumstancial.

The Bushies' ties to the Saudis, however, are real and have obviously influenced their actions before and after 9-11. We were essentially attacked by Saudis, yet we attacked Afghanistan and Iraq. You'd have a hard time convincing me that Saudi Arabia's having been spared ANY consequences was just a mere coincidence.

[neoteric lefty]

19. a kick for those who are coming in late

:kick:

[LunaC]

20. MIHOP - Here's how it unfolded

George W. Bush constantly reminds the nation about the threat of terrorism that began with 911 but he leaves out a few important details that you should know.........

In June 1997, the Project for a New American Century (PNAC) was born. Populated by influential Movers of industry and Shakers of public opinion, the PNAC is an organization united in the vision for a global U.S. empire - "Pax Americana" - through coercion and military domination. Their philosophy can be simply summarized:

• There are countries to plunder and fortunes to be made. You have it, we want it. Do as we say or suffer the consequences.


• The U.S. already has a powerful military but we plan to nurture and grow it until it's massive and we are indominable. Resistance is futile. We are.......

Dick Cheney, Jeb Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Steve Forbes, William J. Bennett, Frank Gaffney, and I. Lewis Libby, signator's - among others - of the PNAC's "Statement of Principles".

"We need to...challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values."

"We need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future."

"It is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge."

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm


JANUARY 1998 - The PNAC knew that he who owns the oil also owns the world so they sent a letter to President Clinton urging him to attack Iraq and remove Saddam Hussein from power since he put "a significant portion of the world's supply of oil at hazard". Clinton didn't grant them their wish and the PNAC was disheartened that they couldn't manipulate the military while outside of the White House power structure.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm


MARCH - APRIL 1999 - In an effort to capture and control the castle and all its warriors and weapons, the PNAC offered up members Steve Forbes, Dan Quayle and Gary Bauer to run as Republican candidates in the upcoming Presidential election.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/election/profile.htm


JUNE 1999 - Ever persistent and determined to maximize their potential for success in the Presidential campaign, the PNAC exercised their power of nepotism and member-Jeb Bush's brother George stepped up to the plate to join the race.


SPRING 2000 - The PNAC may have felt confident with their candidate's chances for winning the White House but they were absolutely smug over what they saw as a possible Fallback Plan...electronic voting machines with severe security flaws that included hidden backdoors, erasable audit trails and multiple vote totals with the potential to propel vote tampering to new heights through the magic of remote access.

How To Rig An Election In The United States
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm

Can the votes be changed?
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/access-diebold.htm

Bettter yet, Chuck Hagel - a fellow Republican loyalist - owned the ES&S voting machine company that counted 60% of all U.S. votes. He had already won one election and was part of the U.S. Senate power team in Washington.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0301/S00166.htm

Assured that the White House would soon be theirs, the PNAC debuted their 76-page blueprint to achieve world domination. "Rebuilding America's Defenses" became the PNAC's manifesto, detailing the ideal level of military power to specifically eliminate the hostile regimes of Iraq, Iran, Syria and North Korea and it endorsed pre-emptive strikes against them, tradition be damned. Iraq was given star billing as Control Central for their Mideast base of operations.

At present the United States faces no global rival. America’s grand strategy should aim to preserve and extend this advantageous position as far into the future as possible."

"American landpower is the essential link in the chain that translates U.S. military supremacy into American geopolitical preeminence.

"We cannot allow North Korea, Iran, Iraq or similar states to undermine American leadership."

"While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein."

What is particularly foreboding and chilling in view of events to later unfold, is this statement bemoaning the lengthy process of rebuilding the existing U.S. military according to the heightened standards and specifications the PNAC aspired to.

...the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor."

http://cryptome.org/rad.htm


NOVEMBER 2000 - Saddam may have sensed an ill wind in the air when he made the first strike, turned his back on the U.S. Dollar and accepted only Euros as payment for his oil. This had the potential of seriously destabilizing the U.S. economy and the PNAC considered this an hostile act of aggression towards their personal and business interests. The heat was on for them to make their first move.

http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2000/11/01112000160846.asp


DECEMBER 2000 - In a highly contentious Presidential vote battle on the home turf of PNAC-Jeb Bush, the Supreme Court decided that George Bush was the new President.

How George W. Bush Won the 2004 Presidential Election
http://www.infernalpress.com/Columns/election.html

Bush now had the green light to seamlessly merge members of the PNAC into his Administration with no one the wiser. PNAC members elevated to the Bush hierarchy include, among others:

• Donald Rumsfeld - Secretary of Defense


• Paul Wolfowitz - Deputy Secretary of Defense


• Elliott Abrams - Member of the National Security Council


• John Bolton - Undersecretary for Arms Control and InternationalSecurity


• Richard Perle - Chairman of the advisory Defense Policy Board


• Richard Armitage - Deputy Secretary of State


• John Bolton - Undersecretary of State for Disarmament


• Zalmay Khalilzad - White House liaison to the Iraqi opposition

An Honorable Mention was awarded to Condoleezza Rice - National Security Advisor - who is a former oil-company consultant having been on the board of directors of Chevron as its main expert on Kazakhstan.

The PNAC agenda had now passed "Go". The most powerful military machine in the world stood at their ready and Saddam was in the crosshair.

"It is important to shape circumstances...... ." - PNAC Statement of Principles

In May 2001 the U.S. State Department met with Iran, German and Italian officials to discuss Afghanistan. It was decided that the ruling Taliban would be toppled and a "broad-based government" would control the country so a gas pipeline could be built there.

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/7969.pdf.
http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/features/fex20867.htm


Even as plans were being made to remove the Taliban rulers from power, Colin Powell announced a $43 million "gift" to Afghanistan.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-091701scheer.column
http://www.cato.org/dailys/08-02-02.html


In July 2001, the private plot formulated in May for toppling the Taliban was divulged during the G8 summit in Genoa, Italy. Immediately after the conference, American, Russian, German and Pakistani officials secretly met in Berlin to finalize the strategy for military strikes against the Taliban, scheduled to begin before mid-October 2001

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1550366.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,556254,00.html


In September 2001 the "catastrophic and catalyzing" modern-day Pearl Harbor envisioned years earlier by the PNAC came to pass when the WTC and Pentagon were attacked. The finger of blame was pointed at Osama bin Laden, a former CIA operative with ties to Afghanistan. Suddenly, the U.S. "gift" of $43 million to the Taliban in May was cast in a new light. Coincidentally, Pakistan had participated in the plan to attack Afghanistan and the chief of Pakistan's Inter Service Intelligence agency was later linked to a 911 hijacker after wiring him $100,00 just days before the WTC fell.

http://cryptome.org/rad.htm
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=1454238160

The PNAC had scored a home run with the bases loaded with the 911 event: shock, horror and fear gripped the nation, the war on "terrorism" had been established in no uncertain terms, attacking Afghanistan with public approval was a foregone conclusion and the stage was set for building a public case against Saddam.

Not one to let a good attack go to waste, Defense Secretary and PNAC-member Donald H. Rumsfeld sprung into action.

• He told his aides to come up with plans for striking Iraq, even though Saddam wasn't linked to the attacks.


• PNAC-James Woolsey, former CIA director, was dispatched to London to look for and 'firm up' evidence of Iraqi involvement in the 911 attacks.


• PNAC-member and Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz was authorized to create the Office of Special Plans.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/04/september11/main520830.shtml

"It is important to shape circumstances..........."- PNAC Statement of Principles

The Office of Special Plans (OSP) was a secret group of analysts and policy advisors with no status in the intelligence community who reported directly to the White House and National Security office with cherry-picked intelligence from questionable sources to support the case for invading Iraq. The OSP circumvented formal, well-established oversight procedures, ignored intelligence that didn't further their agenda, expanded the intelligence on weapons beyond what was justified and over-emphasized the national security risk. They became more influential than the C.I.A. or the Defense Intelligence Agency who didn't even know the ultra-secret OSP existed for at least a year.

Because they were based in the Pentagon, it was assumed that the OSP was an intelligence-gathering agency that was second-guessing the C.I.A. but in actuality it was the White House Military Marketing Machine charged with the task of writing the PNAC's "Get Saddam" sales pitch for the public. Shading and bending reality to suit their own purpose, it wasn't important for the OSP's stories about Saddam to be factual, only that the average American believed them to be - in true Hollywood fashion.

http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/030512fa_fact

While the nation was stripped to the emotional bone and painfully vulnerable, the White House capitalized on the opportunity to reshape public perceptions and responses to conform with the PNAC's new American agenda. Rather than buoy the "can do" American spirit with optimism and hope for the future as Presidents before him had done in times of crisis, Bush spoke with an alarmist and pessimistic tone that served to perpetuate the high anxiety, excitability and fear in the populace.

To hear him speak, the world was a dark, evil and dangerous place....terrorism was here to stay....it would be a long struggle....America was helpless without the military might of the Government to keep the nation safe. The intent was to create a psychologically broken, weary and docile populace that would be easier to lead into war.

Fear became the Administration's strategic tactic for reprogramming the public into accepting the PNAC's militaristic designs. Still shell-shocked and exhausted from the enormity of the WTC and Pentagon tragedies, the public's panic shifted into frenzied over-drive when anthrax-laced envelopes arrived in government and media offices, killing five people. A perpetrator was never identified but the investigation eventually centered around the Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick, one of the nation's main anthrax research centers.

Using classic "operant learning" techniques from the realm of consumer psychology, the public was purposely kept on High Alert and continually "shaped" with ominous sound bites on the nightly news and "Level Orange Terror Alerts" at regularly scheduled but discrete intervals.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/130534_focusecond13.html
http://www.consumerpsychologist.com/#Perception

In October 2001, with flags waving, crowds cheering, and anthems playing, the "War On Terror" and the hunt for Osama began when Afghanistan was attacked right on schedule of July's secret meeting

Immediately afterwards the PNAC and White House collaboration of "GET SADDAM" played relentlessly on televisions and in newspapers across the nation and the World as the "War on Terror" waged on and the litany of lies began.


The only terrorists we have to fear are those that occupy the White House.

VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE IN 2004