FDA held back results of child suicide study

[TacticalPeek]

April 9, 2004, 8:32PM
FDA held back results of child suicide study
Los Angeles Times

WASHINGTON -- Ten months ago, when concerns arose about a possible link between children taking antidepressant drugs and suicide attempts, senior officials at the Food and Drug Administration ordered their leading expert to head up an examination of the evidence.

When the government scientist filed his report last winter, however, his bosses decided to keep it secret -- even though it found that children who took the drugs were twice as likely to be involved in serious suicide-related behavior as those who did not.

Instead of revealing the findings, senior FDA officials ordered more studies, which are not expected to be completed until summer. They also squelched plans to have the author, Dr. Andrew Mosholder, present his conclusions to an FDA advisory committee when it took up the issue in February.

And in March, when the agency issued a warning about the possibility of problems for young patients taking the drugs, FDA officials said no conclusive scientific evidence existed on the link between antidepressants and potentially suicidal behavior by children. Officials said they based their action on anecdotal complaints from physicians and families that had been presented to the advisory committee.

more
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2496556



Jerks.

[Momof1]

1. and these are the people telling us,

that the hamburger is safe? When they hide findings about children, why should we believe anything that they say?

[seabeyond]

2. of course the numbers are hidden

cause not a single one of bush numbers can be trusted, anything affliated with his government, it is all contaminated, that is what happens with a bad boss

[TexasMexican]

3. So how does that work out.

I'm pretty sure that taking drugs for your brain problems can give you more problems, I just dont understand why it happens?

How do anti-depressents make people suicidal?

Arent people supposed to be more suicidal when they are depressed?

[Momof1]

5. I saw this on tv the other week.

They did a blind study, giving placebos to half the kids, and anti-depressants to the other half of the kids. Twice as more kids killed themselves then the ones taking the sugar pills. Very damning study, and when it was leaked a little while ago the FDA stepped up, and started an investigation.

Into who the leaker was....

They are all criminals.

[TexasMexican]

6. yeah but why...

do they kill themselves? Is that in the study? Any theories atleast?

[Momof1]

8. Suicide has been a problem for years.

One of my best friends growing up...

His brother shot himself in the head at the age of 18, because he had fines and he was going to be sent to jail.

10 yrs later his father committed suicide with carbon monoxide.

His cousin tried to shot himself in the head but the gun jumped and blew off his nose.

And this is just one family. There are 2 sons left, and they are both scared that the other one will do it.

[FDRrocks]

7. The anti-depressant is bullshit

In my humble one. I got arrested for drug possesion freshman year, got a bit depressed from my probationary status, and was subsequently put on Paxil, Zoloft and Wellbutrin.

All the drugs did jack shit but fuck with me. 2 weeks after I stopped taking the last one, I felt normal. Normal.

I smoked pot all the time, got busted. I got busted, got upset. THATS FUCKING NORMAL.

Get depressed b/c youre an outcast as school? ITS NORMAL. Get upset at things? ITS GODDAMNED FRIGGIN NORMAL.

But hey, sell us shit for shit the drug comapnies invented. It works well. Psychiatrists have either no common sense, or no morals nowadays.

[Skittles]

14. I agree, FDR

anti-depressants should only be prescribed for serious depression, not the blues because someone broke up with you.

[Ladyhawk]

20. I have serious treatment-resistant depression, yet now I'm wondering...

...what the SSRIs have done to my brain.

[Skittles]

28. LadyHawk

as the child of a suicide, I am well aware that some people have depression serious enough to risk the side effects of medication. Try not to worry too much - with treatment-resistant depression you are not left with of much of a choice. I seriously hope medications will get better. I think death by depression (suicide) is the most painful illness on earth.

[Ladyhawk]

30. And there is such a huge stigma attached to it, even today.

I've run into a lot of prejudice over the years because I've never quite learned to keep my mouth shut about it. I get lectured quite often, even by people who should know better.

[Kanary]

31. You shouldn't *have* to "keep your mouth shut"

There's waaay too much advice-giving and sermonizing, instead of listening and caring.

That's the first step to peace... LISTEN.

Death to stigmas.

Kanary

[FDRrocks]

4. The Gov't is corrupt from top to bottom

It's all owned by business, what a democracy we live in.

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. I didn't read the article in detail, however, isn't it possible that the

children who are prescribed anti-depressants have heighten problems to begin with? Could they already be predisposed twice as much for suicide attempts? And how would someone go about measuring this kind of study with a control group?

[goddess40]

10. BULLIES, are more of a problem

They want to put my children on prozac as they are depressed. Why are the depressed because the bullies at school pick on them and the school encourages the bullies.

[Nay]

11. I can relate, Goddess. When my son was 12,

about 10 years ago, a bully beat him up every day after they got off the school bus. He was quite upset. I tried all the things a parent would try -- I talked to the school (totally uncaring), talked to the parents (the mother was a total nutcase--I finally shut her up by telling her that if my son was injured, my lawyer would be talking to her lawyer). I even offered to wait for my son at the bus stop,but he rejected that idea because he felt (correctly) that he would be laughed at if his mom came and got him every day.

Finally, after exhausting all options and realizing that my kid was heading for depression, I told him to REALLY PUNCH OUT the other kid the very next time the kid laid a hand on him. We went over some sensible points, points you may want to remember for your kids if you go this route:

1. Don't warn the other kid that you are going to hit him. Say nothing beforehand, just do it.

2. Try not to punch him in the face; too easy to do lasting and/or visible damage.

3. Aim a punch for the stomach or a kick to the groin, and pretend to yourself that you have only ONE SHOT at this, and hit him as hard as you possibly can with that one punch. Hold nothing back. Aim to make it VERY PAINFUL but hopefully not physically damaging to the other child.

4. Have your child use a punching bag, canvas bag, any sturdy bag to practice hitting really hard the first time.

5. Remind your children that hitting and harming others is a last resort, to be used after all other methods have failed. Tell them that although you and many others prefer peaceful ways of settling arguments, some unevolved people hit others because they like the feeling of power it gives them, and they couldn't give a shit about the rights or feelings of others. These people, however, have NO RIGHT to even touch you, much less punch or kick you, and it looks like the only way some people learn to stop such behavior is if you make it physically painful for them every time they touch you. It's a sad fact of life, and it's one reason I am happier by myself than with other people, but there it is.

Anyway, your children's depression needs to be addressed, and this way worked for us. After one knock-down, drag-out fight in which my son punched this kid once really hard in the stomach, he has had no trouble since. It transformed his outlook. No, he did not turn out to be a bully. In fact, he now defends others who are being bullied.

[goddess40]

12. Thanks but it is more than one bully

Both my son's have Nonverbal Learning Disorder (NLD) part of which means that they don't read nonverbal cues, such as body language, voice inflection... This makes them susceptable to bullies.
My youngest no longer goes out at recess, the principal is convinced that he does something on purpose to make the assaults happen. DUH, I tried to explain to the idiot about NLD but he can't seem to grasp the notion.

[Blaze Diem]

13. Zoloft Suicide..

Although this link involves attorneys(??)...it is really informative concerning the antidepressant side effects...Why do other countries carry "suicide warning" labels ontheir prescriptions and the USA does not?? It is exactly the same drug..
Its just another giant profiteering scam on the public, by the pharmaceutical co.'s..Billion $$$$ per year profits..follow the money.



http://www.zoloft-side-effects-lawyer.com/suicide.htm

[Lindsay]

15. My understanding of why antidepressants are connected

to suicide is that when taking the antidepressant, people who are inclined to suicide find they have the energy to carry out their plan.

This is from the psychiatrist who prescribes my antidepressant (which is helping me, although it is certainly not a cure).

[southerngirlwriter]

16. Your shrink is very astute.

I have lost 6 (yes, you read that correctly) people to whom I was VERY close to suicide. I am in a support group that includes 5 people (including me) who have had serious suicidal ideation in their lives.

When you absolutely decide to kill yourself, it gives you energy and peace. Your problems are over. There's an end in sight. And yet, suicide is a difficult thing to carry out. It takes careful planning to make sure that, for example, your kids don't find your dead body, or that you do it someplace where public health workers will have to clean up the mess, rather than your family, or to put your affairs in order, or what have you.

When people who have made the decision to kill themselves go on antidepressants, it gives them, usually, just enough energy to do all of the above.

When people who don't want to kill themselves, but feel drawn to the conclusion that it's the only relief in sight, are put on antidepressants, it usually gives them the energy to take action in the direction they have decided to go -- the direction of living.

Before anyone flames me, yes, I know that 10 people is not a large enough group to draw "scientific" conclusions. But I am telling you that I know suicidal people. I've been one. I found my cousin's body after he blew his brains out when we were 13. I read his diary after we buried him. The only man I've ever considered marrying killed himself less than a year ago.

My conclusion are based on real experience, not what I've read on some trial lawyer's web site.

[Ladyhawk]

21. Yes, I've heard this before.

I suppose it's possible, but I also wonder if there's something we're not taking into account. Twice as many children in the SSRI group killed themselves. That's a significant finding. Is it because they are not adult enough to change their decision to kill themselves? Or is there something about the drug itself that leads to suicidal ideation?

I'm very familiar with suicidal ideation and anti-depressants. I take them in the hope that they might be helping a teensy weensy bit. Over the last two decades I've languished, each depressive episode lasting longer and feeling worse than the last.

The only thing that has truly helped: ECT (electro convulsive therapy, AKA shock treatments).

Why am I taking drugs that don't even work? Am I ruining what few coping skills I have remaining?

[Kanary]

22. Your story is gut-wrenching

You have obviously been through sooo much! My heart goes out to you.

The problem *I* have with the pills is that it's now commonplace to have them forced on people, and everyone thinks they are so "educated" about depression that they go around diagnosing others, and exerting peer pressure to take pills.

All other options have been relegated to the trash. People who know themselves well, and know what they need are dismissed if they choose *NOT* to take pills. They can't talk about their situation without at least one person coming at them with pills. No wonder they're depressed. Not being heard does that to a person.

We're a little to quick to toss around the "denial" thing. It's time we go back to listening to people.

I appreciate you sharing your story, and very sorry that the atmosphere here is so weighted towards confronting people that you even have to *think* about being flamed for what you said. That is truly sad.

I wish you well, and hope that things improve... quickly!

Kanary

[Blaze Diem]

23. I agree with what you say..however

there is much more research on the effects of antidep. and much of it comes too late for many.

It is true that a clinically depressed person simply hasn't the energy to carry out the act of suicide. And that once the mood is lifting whether by drugs or psychotherapy the person has enough energy to succeed.

My experience and findings with antideps is that it can be the drug itself that causes a person's desire to self-destruct. This is the side effect that the pharma's don't want to tell.
For some people these SSRI's are a blessing, but for many they have caused devastating situations in ones life.

The biggest complaint I hear is the effect on a person's "recall". Memory can be forever affected.
Another one to top the list is "depersonalization", or living in their own world.
A most devote and caring person will just move farther away from those roles that once were their nature.
Emotion is put in a holding pattern..a "numbness" with little reaction. Some have a natural instinct to overcompensate for this depersonalized state, and resort to anything that will bring about a range of emotion. This is more reactive than deliberate, though.
This often results in extremes of behavior, sometimes involving criminal acts.

This is documented and many researchers and clinicians are now finding a complexity in the relation between random people and antidepressants.
Unfortunately the courts can tell us a lot about the cases they deal with and haw many relate to this very thing.

It is not a myth. It is NOT concocted by trial lawyers looking to make a buck..It is a case of limited studies of pharmas to profit, more than any lawyer of person whose life has collapsed under the uncertainty of a prescriptive drug ever will.

[havocmom]

33. 4 mental health care friends of mine have said the same thing

and I still had to hold the hands of one of them for two days and nights when a patient suicided after the meds kicked in and he seemed to be 'doing so well'.

For me, the right meds helped and the wrong ones almost cost me my life. I was lucky and had a great doctor at a sliding scale payment clinic for the medically indigent. He fought the bean counters/policy makers who insisted the right meds were "too costly". He won the fight and I am alive.

Dr. Yost, if you are out there lurking, thanks for my life. Things are going pretty well.

[KG]

17. this country does not love its children.

:(

[Beam Me Up]

18. This GOVERNMENT does not PROTECT its people.

:mad: It only protects the BOTTOM LINE of major corporations.

[Ladyhawk]

19. I've been on anti-depressants for well over fifteen years.

And I've been steadily getting worse over that time period. The only thing that helped was shock treatments, believe it or not.

Is it possible that SSRIs can adversely affect the brain function of adults, as well? What else aren't we being told?

[Kanary]

24. I have to admit that your statement about shock scares me

It's once again fashionable, and the same pressure for that exists as for the pills.

If it helped you, then I'm glad it was available to you. However, I know a large number of people for whome it was nothing but Harmful, and it's very frightening that it can be forced on people.

Good luck to you!

Kanary

[Ladyhawk]

26. It wasn't forced on me.

I chose to do it because my choices were either do it or die. But I think you're right that it can be forced on people. I recall that they were doing it to an elderly lady to make her more...malleable.

:(

It should only be allowed through choice and only if there's no other solution. I would probably do it again if I had to, but it was the scariest thing I've ever been through. I'm looking for other answers.

[Kanary]

27. Thanks for your reply.

Actually, I wasn't trying to say that it *was* forced on you, but that the threat of that exists... and has happened so many times I can't bear to think about it. It should scare *everyone*.

I will fully admit that it's something I think is reprehensible, but I also will say what I say to other choices... everyone has the right to make their own choices. That's what freedom is supposed to be about. And, I will repeat that I'm glad it was helpful to you.

My big gripe remains that I think there are a lot more options than pills and shock. To make a fully informed choice demands that there *BE* choice.

We're a long way from that choice, and I still maintain it's because many other choices would involve changing this sick society.

I admire you for your honesty, and for sharing something here that must be difficult for you. It sounds like things are still not as they could be for you, and I just hope that it all gets better for you!

Thank you.

Kanary

[Ladyhawk]

29. You are absolutely correct.

There should be options besides pills and shock therapy. But there just aren't. And undertaking such a decision should never be done lightly. It shouldn't be done to someone who is incapable of making such a decision for him or herself. To me, that is morally reprehensible. It may also be morally reprehensible that such a decision was basically forced on me, especially if there are other options and I never had access to them.

Electro-convulsive therapy saved my life (for now), but the seven treatments were the scariest experiences of my entire life. After the sixth treatment, I had a bit of an emotional breakdown. I was terrified that I'd go into the last treatment and never wake up. Because of stress my blood glucose was through the roof (350). I had severe memory loss and loss of function. I can remember walking into the house after the last treatment and commenting on the computers.

"You built those," my mom said.

"I did?" I asked. "I must be smart."

I had trouble remembering how to work the TV remote. I couldn't remember how to log on to IRC. I functioned in a fog for about six weeks. Then my memories started to come back and I regained function. However, some of the memories surrounding the actual treatments may be lost forever.

What it did was break the cycle of obsessive negative thinking (I also have OCD) long enough to make it into partial remission. Since age 19, I've never been completely without Depression. I cannot tell you how very tired I am.

[Kanary]

32. I can believe how very tired you are.

I feel a lot of it myself, although, I'm sure, not to the same degree.

I admire you for speaking out, and for having hung in there after dealing with so much.

I don't know that I could have done the same.

I *do* admire your tenacity. I can't even read your accounts of your experience without my hands sweating, so I can only imagine what it's taken for you to go through all that.

Unfortunately, most of us have been separated from one another, so the step that needs to be taken -- all of us coming to gether and speaking out -- has largely been rendered impossible. We need advocates who can speak out for creating other options.

But, I'm afraid the system is rigged against it.

You've done a lot of educating here today.... for those who are willing to hear. There is a huge injustice in this issue, and I hope that someday soon it will be heard.

Thank you.

Kanary

[Ladyhawk]

34. Thank you for the kind words.

They mean a lot to me on this day. It's been a strange day. :pals:

[Kanary]

25. The pharmas will be protected

because if we, as a nation, were to actually LOOK closely at many of the causes of depression, we'd find our society, itself, at fault.

People would start screaming for change. There would be loud demands to restructure this sick mess of a culture.

We can't have that, so we'll just sacrifice those who are feeling the effects of living in a mad, sick culture.

Kanary

[PA Democrat]

35. The FDA does not require testing to determine safety

of commonly prescribed drugs on CHILDREN, and yet doctors are permitted to prescribe them. Kids' bodies metabolize drugs differently than adults, so you can't just base dosage on body weight.

I have a child with autism. You just cannot believe how many drugs that have not been tested for safety in children, let alone have FDA approval for the treatment of autism, doctors are prescribing for our kids. I have a friend who had to put her child into a detox unit to get her child off of all of the doctor-prescribed meds.

Properly tested drugs can be a godsend for many people with severe mental illness if drugs are properly researched. Unfortunately, there is just WAY too much pharmacological roulette going on when it comes to treating children for mental illness or behavioral issues.