Oil and Milk...a lethal mixture to ensure that the poor will not enter the

[keithyboy]

middle class and that the lower middle class will not rise. It doesn't get reported as inflation because it's what you and I have to pay.

Between Milk, cereal, bread, gasoline and childcare, I don't see how families with small children make it unless the household income is $100,000 or more.

[Deja Q]

1. In other words

1. Our offspring will come to hate us. ANd justifiably so.

2. Corporate America knows of peak oil, et al. THEY ARE SLOWLY CULLING US.

Maybe it's tinfoilhat stuff, but tell me otherwise.

[keithyboy]

3. Can't tell you otherwise.

The military is soaking up our social safety net, corporate pigs get fatter, and the majority of Americans are slowly being turned into fodder of every kind.

[rucky]

4. Culling is a good word for it

it's not just peak oil, it's peak water, peak food, peak air.

and the root of it all is one simple thing: Overpopulation. The Worldwatch institute has identified it as the #1 problem facing the globe - year after year after year. It's hard to talk about.

Until we learn to control that, resources will always be scarce & the Social Darwinists will always be in survival mode (subconciously, at least).

A population "correction" is needed. That's something we don't talk about. of course the ones who don't believe in birth control & abortion are into the more slow & painful forms of population control: denial of healthcare, hunger, control of water & other resources.

100,000 dollars my ass. the rest of the world would laugh at that. time to change our definition of NEED. it's hard. I'm a hog, too.

[Deja Q]

5. This is too funny. A few months ago I made a rant on overpopulation

And got a truckload of responses from DUers saying, for lots of reasons, that overpopulation wasn't a problem.

Of course, this was before fringe web sites talked of peak oil and before the mainstream media pusillanimously peeped up.

American population, BTW, is 350 million. That's surprisingly little when you consider how wealthy we are, how many irreplaceable resources we use, and so on. Not to forget the size of the populations of the rest of the world.

[botchan]

7. Jacques Cousteau

said many many years ago that all problems can be traced to overpopulation. I agreed with him then and it seems more a reality every year since.

[salvorhardin]

2. What are you paying?

In a way, I'm lucky because I don't buy those things (well, bread -- I'm a carb-a-holic) but then I'm unlucky because I can't afford to buy those things (can't afford the car either).

Around here (Central NYS) we're paying:
Milk.... $3.49/gal
Cereal.... $5 for a dinky box
Bread.... $2-$5 per loaf (depending whether you want white glue or something more healthy)
Gas.... $1.85/gal at the station across the street
Childcare.... Have no clue. I assume it's ridiculous.

[Deja Q]

6. I pay

in MN:

Milk: $3.49/gal (this is the milk from cows NOT pumped up with synthetic hormones - the hormone trated milk is $3.29/gal)

Cereal: Ditto, but I buy the no-name brands. Same sugar, you just get more for the same price.

Bread: $1.50 for the worthless crap bread. $2.70 for whole grain bread that's high in fiber content and is healthy for you by comparison.

Gas: $1.89/gal

Childcare: Ditto. I know a lot of people are suffering. :cry:

[Book Lover]

8. In the SF Bay Area

we pay $330 every two weeks for daycare, FYI... with two professional incomes, it works, fwiw.

on edit: You know, I have to tell you, it is not *that* expensive to have kids. Maybe it's just the way our family does it, but our expenditures really haven't gone through the roof. Sure, we buy things now we didn;t before, but it's really not breaking our budget, even when only one of us was working.

[Viking12]

9. We live quite comfortably on 1/3 of your figure

For many reasons people have raised their "minimum" standard of living to truly unnecessary levels. We own a nice home, two cars, a few bucks in retirement accounts, we have two great kids under 4 years old and we live very comfortably on $33K (plus full benefits). I could see, however, where the cost of living would increase VERY dramatically if you paid for your own health insurance. My wife and I were both raised by depression era parents that taught us the value of simple living and we enjoy life without the trappings of excessive consumerism. You'd be amazed at the money you can save by being community and environmentally conscious. For example, we belong to a cooperative style Community Supported Agriculture program in which we pay a few hundred bucks up front each summer and have fresh crops delivered to our door each week; along with the vegetables we grow in our own garden we are able to can & freeze the surplus for the winter months. It saves us money and the family run farms get better returns by cutting out the middleman. Fuel-efficient cars and conscious travel keeps gas expenses to less than $15/week (currently $1.82/gal). Perhaps a key to reducing the potential impact of Peak Oil and other dire challenges is to reduce our standard of living. Hopefully, our two boys and a lot of others will learn to live within the Earth's budget.

[keithyboy]

10. That's nice if you live where you can grow food by planting a garden.

It's also nice if you have full benefits. Your position of reducing our standard of living would rally diappoint Ronald Reagan who told Jimmy Carter during their debate that Americans should never have to sacrfice. That helped win him the election among other ridiculous things.

[SoCalDem]

11. Lucky us... We don't buy cereal or drink much milk

but I paid $2.23 a gallon for gas yesterday :(

[haele]

12. $50K a year for a family of 4 for basics and not go into debt -

That's for just average rent (not mortgage), food, insurance (family health and one vehicle), transportation, and utitilities according to the San Diego Chamber of Commerce.

Their breakdown did not include luxuries like car payments, eating out, movies, savings, etc. Just those stated basics and 1/4 wages left over for incidentals - which means that's the level to live paycheck to paycheck.

Lessee... We made almost $30K last year, ran into serious problems when our one paid off vehicle was involved in an accident and we had to repair (minimal liability insurance and it was considered more "our fault" because the speeding, never drove a stick shift before driver hit us while we were making a left turn) had power turned off once, was late with the rent several times - and where we live is one of the least expensive crackerbox apartments in the county, a full $300 a month less than the average. At $30K a year, in San Diego County, a family lives on less than paycheck to paycheck - unless they also live on the kindness of friends and relatives - and they had better not have any outstanding debts (like college debts or a car payment) to muddy the budget with.

Haele