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Why do the people who fight for our country get nothing when they get back

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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 10:48 PM
Original message
Why do the people who fight for our country get nothing when they get back
It happened after Vietnam. It has been happening with Iraq. Many Vietnam vets have been forced to roam the streets because they cannot get a job or have skant benefits. While that fuckhead in the WH has been screwing them even more.


Bush also sends our troops to Iraq with no body armor. Forget Kerry's vote that spin on Kerry's vote is bullshit. He cuts their combat pay and health benefits. Boy have people made the military a thankless job or what?
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notbush Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not trying to pick a fight
But there are a host of programs available to vets. Go to the veterans affairs homepage and check it out.
Maybe more should be done ....but the benefits are pretty good.
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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. True.
But is is psychological. It is good there are things out there. But it is obviously not enough.
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I agree. It's not enough.
The fact that there is even one homeless veteran in America is inexcusable, especially after all I saw today about honoring our troops.
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notbush Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Just curious, what benefits would you add or expand?
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silverlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Health benefits...
Although some benefits are available, due to closures of many VA clinics, veterans have to wait to get in and often have to drive many miles to get help. This discourages many and makes it impossible for others.

There is a lot of other stuff that needs to be done. This one comes to mind simply because I have a retired veteran friend battling cancer.
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notbush Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Serve 4 years, get medical benefits(and drugs) for life
Not a bad deal.
With V.A. hospital closings, you may have to drive a little further for inpatient care.
However the government contracts with private doctors to avoid this for routine treatment.
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. It's not enough
Yeah there are benefits, but the promises that are made with those benefits are not fulfilled.

"Guaranteed" is not so once you try and get it.
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Oreegone Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. They may be "pretty good" NOT good enough
Read it and weep:
Regular Army soldiers in Iraq sleep in fortified accommodations while National Guard troops are in unprotected tents and using filthy showers, according to e-mail messages from several North Carolina soldiers.
Staff Sgt. Roosevelt McPherson of Raeford said in a series of e-mail messages from Forward Operating Base McKenzie near Samarra that the National Guard soldiers have nowhere to seek shelter from almost daily mortar attacks, The News & Observer reported Wednesday.

http://www.vaiw.org/vet/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=743&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0&POSTNUKESID=8ce5ceb41459dbf2d514244459e8e637

The National Guard also loses their medical 30 days after their return, no wonder we want to use them instead of Army folks.

Also check out this website, it has a wealth of information:
Veterans against the War
http://www.vaiw.org/vet/index.php

Bush has worked very hard to lower benefits, some have been reinstated. Come on, someone with good info chime in please. Our soldiers are not being treated properly. I know of soldiers buying armor plating themselves to protect themselves in their humvees. This is bullshit, we have lost too many soldiers because of our administrations uncaring incompetence.
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notbush Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Can you provide a link for the
"National Gaurd loses medical benefits 30 days after return"?
I don't think that's correct.
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notbush Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Go to the V.A. homepage
It dirrectly contradicts you. www.va.gov
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Leprechan29 Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. There are programs
But even these are being cut and/or scaled back with new budget proposals
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notbush Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Antidotal evidence,that's all I've seen........
V.A. budgets have NOT been cut.
Yes, some hospitals have been closed, just like military bases have been closed.
I would like to hear...or read about some real cuts in benefits.
Not reductions in proposed increases.
PLEASE go to www.va.gov. and spend some time reading.
The benefits.....V.A. loans,medical,dental,education,rehab......are Very good.
I have a 84 yr. old father, who is on medicare, that in the last year started going to the V.A. "just because it's free". No co-pay if the doctor doesn't want to write it off. (like some medicare providers)
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Anecdotal evidence
may indeed be part of the antidote to the poison the current misanthropic *misadministration has injected into the V.A. The system is NOT in good shape. It is understaffed and underfunded.
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Leprechan29 Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. I admit my error then
though I did find a few sources which debated the topic of cuts

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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. Yes, but
Bush has been cutting those programs, so it would not surprise me to find out that many vets come back to closed VA offices in their hometown, and little to no service elsewhere.

Frankly, I think it's because Bush just wants these people to become lifers in his Imperial Army, jumping from one invasion to another in the name of neoconservative "freedom."
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. IIRC it was Mengele who said
The more we do to you the less you believe we are doing it.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
13. Because they are stock, according to the people who send them
out there. They wouldn't say it to your face but I'd say they pretty much look at you as so much beef going to market. Life is cheap unless it's theirs and there is no way you will find a chickenhawk in real danger, plastic turkey PR operations or not.
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notbush Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
14. kick
because I'd like to have an intelligent debate.
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notbush Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
15. I'm up late
Just watched a story about changes in the V.A.on CNN.
Although there have been some V.A. hospital closings, there has been a huge increase of outpatient facilities. The jest of the story was that the V.A. is being "reinvented".
Now....flame me with some facts......not a blog,not pravda,.....some facts with good links.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. You actually buy what the VA website is selling?
You actually buy what the VA website is selling? I mean you believe this self serving shit?

What about their mission statement you think they actually mean what they say?

CNN: Court overturns ruling on vets' free lifetime health care
From Terry Frieden
CNN


WASHINGTON (CNN) --A federal appeals court Tuesday ruled that the U.S. government does not owe free lifetime medical care to World War II and Korean War veterans who agreed to serve 20 years in exchange, despite promises made to them when they were in the armed forces.

The ruling represents a victory for the federal government, which had argued the veterans were not entitled to the benefits. The ruling will potentially save the government billions of dollars in health care costs.

The 9-4 ruling by the full U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in Washington, D.C., overturns a ruling by a three-judge appeals panel in February, 2001, which ruled that the veterans were entitled to the lifetime health care based on the military's promises

http://www.politicalamazon.com/vet-links.html





In a statement issued shortly after the budget was released, Edward S. Banas Sr., commander in chief of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, called the VA's health care spending proposal "a disgrace and a sham."

VA officials reply that spending for health care will increase under the budget, but that tough choices had to be made because of the soaring budget deficit and limits on spending.

According to John Gage, president of the American Federation of Government Employees, the VA is calling for a reduction of 540 full-time jobs in the Veterans Benefits Administration, which handles disability, pension and other claims by veterans.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A24665-2004Mar2?language=printer

The President's budget would establish a $1,500 deductible for Category 7 veterans. Under this new policy, a veteran would be forced to pay for 45 percent of his or her medical care, up to a limit of $1,500 per year. The VA estimates that 121,000 veterans will choose not to be treated at the VA next year if the proposal becomes law. This would include several thousand in South Dakota. I know this is an attempt to ask veterans who make more money to contribute more to their own health care. However, the way in which the VA determines Category 7 status is unfair, particularly to many veterans in South Dakota. Category 7 veterans are those who lack a disability related to their military service or whose income is higher than the current VA eligibility standards. The current income standard is $24,000 annually for a single, or $28,000 for a couple, and applies to 40 percent of the veterans in South Dakota.
http://www.politicsol.com/guest-commentaries/2002-04-09.html

OHIO FACT:



-According to the Department of Veterans Affairs, there are roughly 1.1 million veterans living in Ohio, all of whom are affected by Bush’s policies. In 2002, nearly 184,000 people were treated at Ohio veterans health facilities, and 113,000 received disability or pension payments from the VA. The VA operates health care facilities in Cincinnati, Cleveland, Chillicothe and Dayton, as well as an outpatient clinic in Columbus. At Ohio veterans facilities in 2002, there were 20,465 inpatient admissions and 1,795,956 outpatient visits. http://www.appc1.va.gov/opa/fact/statesum/index.htm>



- Statewide, the Disabled Veterans Tax costs veterans $3.7 million each month in lost disability benefits. This is equivalent to $44.6 million annually. (Committe on Government Reform, Special Investigations Division, Sept. 2003)

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/oh10_kucinich/040202budgetsum.html

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/print.asp?id=563
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Main_veterans_110703.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0328-11.htm
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silverlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Thank you!
This is a kick for a morning DU imput. I can't believe people would buy into the White House and corporate media spin on the "reinventing of the VA."

I have learned through the past years to be very leary of the Republican Party "reinventing" anything. To them, this means huge cuts and ultmate disaster.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
18. Yes, it's a crappy thankless job
and the occasional parade doesn't make up for the way vets are treated in this country.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
22. Our "homies" in the military
are being MISUSED, ABUSED and SODOMIZED without informed consent. This is a VERY HOT BUTTON issue for me, I ask your indulgence while I rant.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, if Americans were properly educated about "Foreign policy" the USE of their military to achieve it, there would likely be very few "volunteers." See:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1694419

SECONDLY, the treatment they receive at the hands of the U.S. gub'mint is ABOMINABLE. My generation went to Viet Nam. Very few of my close friends were immediately affected because of our ECONOMIC STATUS. In subsequent years, I broadened my horizons and have had a BURNING ANGER that I have NEVER been able to extinguish. I met guys who had been in the jungle the day before and were simply DUMPED on the streets. I witnessed their decline into addiction and insanity. I will NEVER FORGIVE the "powers" that USED AND ABANDONED THEM. NEVER.

MY GIRLFRIENDS WERE AFFECTED BY THIS:

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N06354124
AlertNet | Sunday, 8 December 2002

Wife beating seen as epidemic in U.S. military
------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Alan Elsner, National Correspondent

FORT BRAGG, N.C., Dec 8 (Reuters) - A spate of murders involving military spouses at the Fort Bragg army base has focused new attention on domestic violence in the U.S. armed services, which critics say the Pentagon has failed to adequately address.

Though the military acknowledges it could do a better job collecting statistics on domestic violence by service personnel, studies have suggested that abuse rates are two to three times higher than in the civilian population.

Defense Department estimates suggest incidents of domestic violence in the military rose from 18.6 per 1,000 marriages in 1990 to 25.6 per 1,000 in 1996. Rates fell slightly from 1997-1999 but there were more moderate to severe incidents.

The figures did not include an unknown number of cases not reported or handled informally by commanders, or violence against girlfriends or unmarried live-in partners, who have no legal standing in the eyes of the military.

"The military has simply not come to terms with the problem. They've known about it for a long time, and have repeatedly acknowledged the severity of the problem, but they have not dealt with it," said Terri Spahr Nelson, a former army psychotherapist and author of a book on rape and sexual harassment in the military.

AND HERE'S ANOTHER OLDIE BUT GOODIE:

Ordered Into Debt
Pentagon Brass Force Credit Debt On Soldiers and Sailors
Geoffrey Gray is a writer based in New York City. His work has been published in The New York Times, New York Magazine, and The Village Voice.

The numbers were staggering: $3,400 for a sumo-wrestling outfit, $16,000 for a corporate golf membership, $38,000 in cash advances for lap dances. All were part of a $101 million shopping spree made with "government purchase cards," the U.S. military's version of corporate credit cards -- another made-for-media scandal of reckless Defense Department spending.

But throughout congressional hearings on the topic in July, the real scandal with the military's other piece of plastic, the Government Travel Card (GTC), went ignored by the mainstream press, despite the fact that the card has plunged thousands of ordinary servicemen and servicewomen into debt so deep that the Pentagon is busy garnishing the wages of its own soldiers. And the only military commander known to raise hell about the scheme -- a lone Air Force colonel based in the Midwest -- says that blowing the whistle on the GTC ruined her career.
"The desperate rush to privatization has a million warts."

Lower in the ranks, the damage has been considerable. U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan have found themselves stranded in the desert without a dime because their credit was suddenly cut off, according to a May 29 report in the Military Times, leaving families behind in a nasty catch-22: Swallow the debt, or borrow more money to pay the bills so their credit wouldn't be ruined.

Concocted by Congress in 1998, the GTC was designed to privatize the accounting of federal travel expenses and touted to save taxpayer money. (It also reaps huge fees by the financial conglomerates that issue the cards.) It works like this: Servicepeople are ordered to apply for personal GTCs -- interest-free credit cards issued exclusively by the Bank of America. Instead of requesting vouchers or getting cash to pay for travel expenses, servicepeople pay up front with the their own GTC cards -- essentially floating interest-free loans to the government. As a result, they have to submit expense reports and wait for reimbursements.

"It's a pathetic situation when soldiers are forced to buy into a system that's likely to screw them personally," says Danielle Brian, executive director of the Project On Government Oversight, a D.C. nonprofit watchdog group. "This is just another example where the Pentagon has conjured up a scam with a favorite contractor. The desperate rush to privatization has a million warts."

By putting the burden of bookkeeping on its servicepeople and the bank, the Bank of America claims that the Pentagon has saved anywhere from $100 million to $450 million a year in administrative costs. Meanwhile, Bank of America has acquired an entire new fleet of captive consumers: more than 1.4 million servicemen and servicewomen ordered by law to use the card for every travel expense till 2008.

Pentagon officials contend that the program is beneficial to both taxpayers and servicemen. Consumer advocates laugh.

OR TRY TO GET THROUGH THIS ONE, (Please take your BP medication before you read it)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=11208&forum=DCForumID66

And THAT was THEN (before my Luddite mind grasped the concept of "hot links"). It is MUCH WORSE NOW.

My only question is: WHAT THE FUCK WILL IT TAKE TO GET AMERICANS TO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE PUTRID ELEPHANT SHIT???
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InkAddict Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
24. Part of the answer here???
Edited on Tue Jun-01-04 10:07 PM by InkAddict
http://www.e-gov.com/egov_digest/index.asp#1575 - About one-half way down the page of articles - Defense/VA Lack Common Data Exchange (edit for location of article)

Essentially, no interconnectivity in their systems but boy do we have hi-tech bombs. No wonder Georgie was spouting off about the electronic medial record. It all sounds good, but now one wonders if that stuff isn't fed right into the nosey TIA-Matrix "Big Brother" database for future "persons of interest," and other nefarious ways to screw up people's lives if one doesn't "behave". Not really sure things like this ought to be connected. Any other thoughts out there?
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Oreegone Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-04 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
25. The Guard doesn't get the same benifits
Hey since I last heard they changed it....a little bit.....but it's still not the same..Wow now they get 6 months woop dee doo...

.Last year, Congress extended Tricare coverage to unemployed Guard and reserve troops and those ineligible for employer coverage. They also can sign up when they receive their orders, not just when they begin their assignments. They also can stay on Tricare for six months after finishing their tours of duty.

http://greenvilleonline.com/news/2004/02/02/2004020223939.htm
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