Pope ready to forgive Bush, but Kerry can't receive communion?

[BurtWorm]

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-vatican-bush,0,3823441.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

:eyes:

[KissMyAsscroft]

1. Fuck the Vatican and the Pope...

this is exactly why I cut these people zero slack. They are not a church, they are a political organization holding back progress.

[FlemingsGhost]

4. Here it comes: 3... 2... 1...

Cue the offended DU Catholics.


Wheeeeeee!

[skippysmom]

22. I'm offended

but by the church that's chasing me away, not by DUer comments.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

25. I fail to see the entertainment value here

but that's just me.

[homelandpunk]

53. Well...I laughed.

But then I always laugh when religion is taken down a notch. Tha's just me.

[shrike]

33. Actually, you're right on cue

I know I've clicked on the right message board (DU) when an anti-Catholic thread pops up on my screen.

[Carolina]

42. Ditto

why I have given up on organized religion!

Ya think all those molesting priests still get to partake of the sacrament in private?

[billybob537]

2. The pope

another BUSH* enabler, I didn't vote for him either.
Question to pope: Is Bush ready to forgive you for 30 yrs of covering up abuse?

[Lucky Luciano]

12. n/t

[Warpy]

20. There are persistent rumors here in the southwest

that Bush preferred boys in his hard drinking days. Perhaps he and the Pope have a lot more in common than we think.

[libcurious]

29. Bohemian Grove?

[LuLu550]

3. My Catholic friend

wants to know why the church is "going out of its way to convert Catholics to Protestants or Unitarians...."

[rhino47]

5. As a catholic this really pisses me off.

Its ok that * is for capital punishment which is against church
doctrine.I guess its ok to kill soldiers and minorities but not
pre humans.
:mad:
I could never understand people that are anti choice but pro capital
punishment.

[BurtWorm]

7. I was just reading (distractedly, I admit--I can't remember where

I read this) the other day that the Catholic hierarchy and right-wing Protestant churches have formed an alliance to outlaw abortion in 10 years. I don't remember when they formed this alliance, but it seems that the Catholic hierarchy is trying to keep its end of the bargain.

[Bridget Burke]

35. Where did you read this?

No link? Not even a bibliographic cite?

[BurtWorm]

39. NY Times Week in Review.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/30/weekinreview/30good.html

[libcurious]

30. I can't understand that either

But I also can't understand how someone can be pro-choice and anti-death penalty.

[Malva Zebrina]

6. Reminds me of the Hitler era

when Catholics were proud to be seen alongside the Fuhrer.

They actually need the faith based money to fund their cathedrals and their schools.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

8. I'm a DISENFRANCHISED Catholic!

The Pope will forgive a War Criminal but will still condemn John Kerry!

:wtf:

:argh:

The Pope, "Karol Wartija = John Gotti"

The Catholic Church supported the Criminal actions of it's Preists and Bishops and still The Pope has the nerve to call we Americans "Souless"!

:argh:

[Lucky Luciano]

14. Hey Hey! Gotti is NOT a criminal. He was only misunderstood!

Take that back or I will have to send my boys after you!

[Canuckistanian]

9. Hold the phone..

Did the POPE threaten to withhold communion from Kerry? I thought it was a few radical conservative priests who called for this.

[BurtWorm]

11. I thought it was an order from the Vatican

not from the Pope's own pen or mouth, necessarily, but from his policy makers.

[gpandas]

16. couple of american bishops

[Warpy]

21. Actually, it was from a Nigerian cardinal

whose name I have blissfully forgotten, and who is obviously bucking to be the first black pope. An archbishop in Colorado Springs (home of Focus on the Family) has said Catholics who vote for prochoice candidates should not receive communion, but he's already been slapped down by his superior in Denver.

Nah, this isn't official Vatican policy....yet. However, with the Pope embracing Bush, who he has been heard referring to as the Antichrist, I don't suppose it's far off.

Eventually, the abortion issue is going to force yet another schism in the Church of Rome, one they can ill afford on top of the abuse scandals and their coverups over the past few decades.

It should be fun to watch, especially for us recovering ex Catholics.

[azmesa207]

10. Pope ready to forgive Bush But Kerry Cant receive communion

I did not read anywhere in the article that the Pope is forgiving Bush ands denying Kerry Communion It the republican that are saying that he forgives bush that just lot of bush bullshit spin

[Malva Zebrina]

15. OK--this is like Bush saying he never met Chalabi

the bishops do not "make up" their Catholic religion. It is all there for them to follow, written into the catechism and they are obliged to "obey"

It is the religion they are following and they are trying to influence the democratic process in America by preaching to all the sheep who attend the mass daily or weekly, that they need to vote against Kerry--the sinner or suffer PUNISHMENT. (from the god)

Puleeze--this is the
Catholic religion they are connnected to and have been ordained by--the Pope is the head who is steering the religion on it's course.

They are the Catholic religion. They are trying to influence the democratic process and they are treasonous in their religious beliefs.



it is up to the Pope to deny they are following the religion and throw them out. But we will not see that.

So we see a repeat of the Catholics supporting Hitler.

And the sheep will blindly follow the heirophants who seek money and power as much as Bush does.

[cap]

18. not quite...

66% of Catholics support federally funded abortions
88% use contraception

People are quietly witholding donations.... I have had 3 appeals in the past two months...

This includes big money people too ...people who give 100K for a church aren't giving.

[Malva Zebrina]

24. don't worry

faith based welfare money is on it's way. State funded religion is on it's way. Just keep villifying Kerry and we will send you as much as you need to keep your religious schools going and to repair your crumbling churches.

[cap]

27. that money won't trickle into all the churches...

no, the faith based stuff can't bail the church out of the sex abuse penalties, and the infrastructural needs. Only the faithful can.

[shrike]

40. Nowhere in this article does it say JP II is forgiving Bush for anything

As I said in another post, it's a lot of gobbledygook, about dialogue, etc., the usual stuff that heads of state (and churches) come up with.

[CHIMO]

50. Your Definition

Not mine.
The catechism is not the source of beliefs.
The Pope and his Bishops speak with authority on matters of morals. This leaves a lot of leeway. For someone to take things over seems like going back to Henry VIII.
I as a Catholic am obliged by my belief to live by my conscious and if I do not, then I will be judged on that. The pope can not change that.
If you do not wish to evaluate things then maybe you do not have the talents to do that. If you do then you are obliged to evaluate things to your satisfaction. No one said it was easy. Mighty fine hole in the needle.

[LeahMira]

51. Two interesting letters ...

... to the editor were in our local paper today. One was from a Catholic priest defending the right of priests to deny communion to anyone who advocates for the right to abortion, but one was from a Catholic woman who insisted that there are many issues that are important in terms of social justice (she mentioned the gap between rich and poor, among other things in her list), and that while she, as a Catholic, opposes abortion, she will weigh all the issues and not be a single-issue voter.

If I knew that woman, I'd give her a hug! That so needs to be said.

Personally, I'm pro-choice, but the abortion issue is not the only, and not even the major concern that moral individuals need to consider. Neither candidate is perfect, although one is closer by a long shot. Voters of any faith need to look at the whole picture.

[Kiliki]

13. This sure puts the fundy protestants in a bind...

I mean, which do they choose to condemn and castigate now? The pope, or John Kerry? Oh such a quandry!

[library_max]

17. Kerry not only can receive communion, he does receive communion.

The communion thing is a tempest in a teapot cooked up by Republicans in search of a wedge issue.

[cap]

19. yes, they want to divide the catholic vote...

[robbedvoter]

23. Killing Iraqis not as bad as killing embrios...(white ones)

vatican shilled for Hitler too.

[struggle4progress]

26. Huh? Who said Kerry couldn't receive communion?

Get the story straight! There's a handful of wingnut church officials who make inflammatory comments. Most church officials haven't taken a stand anything like this.

[DemBones DemBones]

28. DU's anti-Catholic voices raising another cacophony of lies.

I'm ashamed of and sickened by you people who claim to be liberals and Democrats.

[LeahMira]

32. You needn't be ...

I'm ashamed of and sickened by you people who claim to be liberals and Democrats.

Your religion has developed a hefty body of theology over the centuries that the average person isn't familiar with. You may be seeing the total picture because you were raised with it but, to many, these fine distinctions are totally foreign.

For instance, I've been told that in fact the Catholic Church does not prohibit the death penalty but does prohibit abortion. People see this as a contradiction because if you believe that life exists before birth then why not prohibit deliberately ending life in all circumstances? Or why is the potential life of an unborn infant of more significance than the life of the pregnant woman?

These are dilemmas that Catholics have answered with what seems like hairsplitting and, when it comes down to it, some premises that are not proveable but which depend on faith... at least as I understand it.

There is an internal consistency in the Catholic teachings but, unless someone is aware of the basic premises, it looks bizarre. Instead of getting miffed, why not try to explain? People might not agree with the premises, but I think that, once they get a handle on where you're coming from, they will be better able to understand some of the dilemmas and confusion.

[shrike]

36. Actually, the church opposes the death penalty

And euthanasia, or at least that's what I have always been taught.

[LeahMira]

46. Not quite...

The Catholic bishops in the U.S. issued a statement against capital punishment, but it is predicated on the social and cultural environment in this country. In other places and under other conditions, it looks to me as if Catholics see it as sort of a necessary evil.

http://www.osjspm.org/cst/cappun.htm

Allowing for the fact that Catholic teaching has accepted the principle that the state has the right to take the life of a person guilty of an extremely serious crime, and that the state may take appropriate measures to protect itself and its citizens from grave harm...

[Bridget Burke]

37. While it's easy to disagree with Church doctrine or.....

activities of certain Bishops, many people here have been trained to hate Catholics from the day of their birth. And it shows.

[LeahMira]

49. Bigotry exists, but...

... many people here have been trained to hate Catholics from the day of their birth. And it shows.

I think that in many cases the people you see as knee-jerk Catholic haters have actually been hurt in some way by Catholics.

In all honesty, it might not be that the people involved did whatever hurtful thing they did because they were Catholics, but somehow the connection was made.

Certainly bigotry is out there, but if you cared about someone who was molested by a Catholic priest, for instance, and you saw both the pain it caused and that the perp got off scott free, you would lose respect for the Catholic Church in a big hurry.

I've had several run-ins with Catholic higher-ups (sort of having one now even), and while some of them are decent folks, it's the ones that are dogmatic and inflexible that leave a bad taste.

[spanone]

31. Criminals stick together.

[BabsSong]

34. As my Catholic husband has been saying for days:

So is the personal visit with the Pope in a few weeks set up so that Bush can hand him the big pay off check directly????----the Catholic Church doesn't do anything unless there's money involved (his words). Amen.

[shrike]

38. Did anybody read this story?

It doesn't say JP II is going to "forgive" Bush for anything; mostly it was just a bunch of diplomatic gobbledygook about dialogue, yadda, yadda.

[Bridget Burke]

41. I did. The "headline" on this thread is quite misleading.

Generally, the article is "diplomatic gobbledygook"--the Pope has several things to discuss with Bush & will try to work with him. It mentioned that "Several Vatican officials have recently issued sharp criticism of Bush administrations actions leading up to the war and the scandal of prisoner abuses by U.S. soldiers in Iraq."

The Pope is in no position to "forgive" Bush. His own denomination (United Methodists) also opposed the war, but I don't know their mechanics of penance.

Kerry was not mentioned at all. He can and does receive communion--just not in churches in dioceses run by publicity-hog bishops.

[LeahMira]

43. That sounds about right.

It doesn't say JP II is going to "forgive" Bush for anything; mostly it was just a bunch of diplomatic gobbledygook about dialogue, yadda, yadda.

The Pope is also a head of state, i.e. the Vatican State. Apparently sometimes he acts in his role as head of state and sometimes he acts in his role as head of morality. Again, this is something that the average person has a hard time sorting out.

[Nevernose]

44. Bush is burning in hell anyway, right?

According to Catholic dogma, since Bush isn't Catholic, he's gonna burn, so what difference does it make if the pope forgives him?

[donhakman]

45. pic of them together

[smirkymonkey]

52. Ooooh! I like that one!

"The Patron Saint of Idiots" - it's perfect.

[seabeyond]

47. talking to a catholic friend about this last night

i have the answer. she was saying he promotes abortion. cant get communion. i told her it is not that anyone is saying yippee to the abortion or even agreeing with the abortion. for example personally i do not believe in abortion, i have never had one, would never (i am too old now so easy to say). but,......god gave us free will. we have to make these choices ourselves, it is not for others to make. so really i am being more godly allowing fellow man to have free will like god created instead of mans will. and man deciding when abortion is ok or not. now

if i truly dont believe in abortion, though i feel i don't have a right to dictate to another, if in my heart i don't believe in abortion, then who is a priest to decide whether or not i am in a place to receive communion. am i breaking the catholic rule

[Alerter_]

48. the Pope would give Kerry Communion

It's too bad the Catholic church covered up the pedophiles for so long, because they lost their credibility to enforce their rules. Fact is, plenty of "liberals" were complicit or negligent. Now the right-wingers have a free hand.