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BBV: Any comments on the Brazil EV machines? My country will use them!

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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 03:29 AM
Original message
BBV: Any comments on the Brazil EV machines? My country will use them!
A couple of days ago it was announced that about half the population of my country (Costa Rica) will be voting with electronic voting machines in the 2006 elections.

Brazil will lend the machines necessary to do this. I looked into Google, and apparently they have been used succesfully there. Unfortunetely I couldn't find much information, and I know of the risks of electronic voting machines after reading lots about Diebold, Hagel, robgeorgia, etc here.

So... can anyone give me any more information or links?

I would greatly appreciate it!
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. kick!
no one?
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Can you say Diebold?
"Diebold's Brazilian subsidiary, Procomp, supplied the world's largest nationwide voting system, used by 109 million voters, during elections in Brazil. Procomp provided the Brazilian government with more than 180,000 voting terminals, accessories, software, installation, training, logistics and support."

http://www.atmmarketplace.com/marketplace_storefronts_client.htm?i=16&article_id=11569&step=story :(
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thanks!
How come Diebold claims it is not possible to include a paper trail, but yet their subsidiary in Brazil includes it in their machines?!

Thanks a lot for the link... at least now I have a little information to start my research.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. these machines seem like the best use of the technology so far
I wish we could use them in my country (US)
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-04 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. No paper...no proof...
NO way!
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. kick n/t
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-04 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
6. kick n/t
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-04 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. kick n/t
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-04 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
8. Se jodieron! n/t
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-04 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. that's exactly what I want to avoid...
especially considering we're still a year and 8 months away from the elections... there's still time to do something.
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I quite understand.
Edited on Thu Jun-03-04 03:55 PM by SMIRKY_W_BINLADEN
Perdona la negatividad. Pero, que se puede esperar?
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-04 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. sí, entiendo...
en realidad yo tampoco estoy muy positivo al respecto... pero sí pienso que hay que investigar bien esto ya, antes de que sea muy tarde.

Es bueno hablar español acá de vez en cuando :P
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Si, coño hace falta definitivamente. Saludos. n/t
Edited on Thu Jun-03-04 05:07 PM by SMIRKY_W_BINLADEN
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-04 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
13. kick n/t
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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-04 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's a different Diebold subsidiary
Diebold in the USA is actually the old Global Election Systems crew. Diebold in Brazil is another voting machine company they had purchased earlier, called Procomp. The guy associated with that, (Riorda? Reardon?) is one that started aggressively dumping Diebold stock when the information came out about how flawed its U.S. software is.

Two different subsidiaries. Different corporate cultures. What we know for sure is that Diebold's USA subsidiary's ethics leave much to be desired. We also know that Diebold Inc. is more interested in damage control, to the extent that it lies repeatedly in public and to government investigators, than it is in truly resolving the problems. But according to inside sources I have at Diebold, some of the subsidiaries pretty much run themselves, with the same infrastructure and staff as they had before the acquisitions. If so, and if Procomp was a decent company before, it might be okay now.

I have very good inside information that six banks are considering dumping Diebold ATM machines right now. I'm sitting on a story -- have fed parts of it out to a major national news source. Should have it "outed" by -- at the earliest, Sunday, at the latest, the following Sunday.

All the best,

Bev
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Thanks a lot for the background info!
It certainly helps my research.

You have done an outstanding job in getting the BBV problem out, and wish you the best of lucks.
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Bev did you like my letter?
Edited on Fri Jun-04-04 03:43 PM by DanSpillane
Any news contacts in France? GW is there very soon...
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-04 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
16. Should I send a letter to the Brazilian and Costa Rican Embassies too?
Edited on Fri Jun-04-04 03:40 PM by DanSpillane
Daniel Spillane
410 E Denny Way #229
Seattle, WA USA
(206) 860-2858 citizen@libertywhistle.us

Chancery
US Embassy, The Nation of France
101 Reservoir Road, N.W.
Washington D.C. 20007

June 3, 2004

Chers Messieurs et Madames :

My name is Daniel Spillane, and I am a citizen living in Seattle, Washington, in the United States. I am writing to you because I am very concerned that democracy has all but disappeared in my country, and France represents a wise, honorable and old friend of the US. As you know, long ago, the nation of France gave the Statue of Liberty to the United States in recognition of the strength of US liberty and democracy—the statue stood here proudly as a symbol of unity between “sisters.” But now, I fear, the statue stands not in pride, but in shame--on a foundation that is less of a democracy every day. You see, few things are closer to the foundation of democracy than free and fair elections, conducted under the rule of law. And it is in US elections where, unfortunately, the very foundation of US democracy has fallen into decay.

I am an expert on computer systems, and have applied my experience of over 20 years towards analyzing US voting equipment. Recently, I have had the opportunity to analyze information related to several US voting machine makers, and the legal system involved in conducting US elections. These US elections are claimed to be democratic, and appear to be so—at least on the surface. But below the surface, the laws and regulations that are supposed to ensure free and fair democratic elections are not being observed. In short, the US can no longer claim it is a democracy, given that many recent elections have been conducted without the rule of law.

Unfortunately, I and other citizens--including esteemed experts from US universities such as Stanford--have discovered that in a number of US states, supposedly democratic elections have been conducted without the rule of law. A prime example of an election carried out this way is the US presidential election of 2000. While stories of punch-card voting equipment involving “hanging chads” dominated the US media, few details were offered to the American public. Recently, upon re-addressing the Bush vs. Gore case along with technical details, I determined that election law couldn’t possibly have been met, based on the circumstances and law back then. This is an awful truth to discover, and one that has not been told to US citizens, nor to the rest of the world.

Specifically, a 1989 Florida law clearly states that after 1993, all Florida voting systems used in elections had to meet standards. As it turns out, those standards clearly state voting punch-card machines used after 1993 required “features to ensure that chad is completely removed.” However, the widespread existence of hanging chads, as publicized world-wide, clearly shows that the Florida election did not meet that law--and proves the 2000 election was conducted in contempt of the law. Remarkably, in the Bush vs. Gore US Supreme Court decision, no mention is made of the applicable “chad removed” standard, nor that the law was ignored. Furthermore, the responsible election official, Katherine Harris, was never held accountable--but was instead “rewarded” with a promotion into the US House of Representatives. And the American public was blindsided on the true nature of the law—consequently, the problem of Florida 2000 was never fixed. Indeed it was never even properly identified.


But US problems with democracy aren’t limited to just one election. It has since been discovered that a number of US States have since been conducting elections outside the rule of law—just like in Florida 2000--including the State of California, and my own State of Washington. And the problem isn’t one of punch cards, but of many US election systems, including the new electronic ones. In recent cases, mysterious changes to election results remain unexplained, including those in the states of Georgia and Alabama—yet these, like 2000, appear to be the result of lawless, non-democratic circumstances. Clearly in these cases, nothing had been done to fix the problems, which led to Florida 2000 and still persist. In fact, since 2000, a US Federal Committee was appointed to fix US voting, but was delayed by President Bush--and then funding was cut.

Yet, more recently, problems with democracy in the US seem to have spread well beyond just elections. Recently, the US invaded Iraq based on contrived evidence; several members under the Bush administration have resigned. And now, the US President is part of a criminal investigation, involving retaliation against his own government agents. So I am even more worried: lawless elections, lawless wars, and lawless presidencies are signs of tyrannical regimes--not of democracies. Even the US Supreme Court and Congress have failed to protect the American people from falsehood and treachery.

With all these things happening, I am hoping the nation of France can remember why it gave the Statue of Liberty to the US; and I am hoping France can see how the statue stands here in shame. I urge France to send representatives and observers to see evidence of problems in US elections and democracy; also, I urge France to raise the problems concerning US elections and un-democratic behavior to the United Nations.

I sincerely hope that France may aid America in the return to democracy. And for my part, I can no longer accept the gift of the Statue of Liberty--I urge you to consider the return of it. The statue rightly belongs in the hands of those who provide an example of democracy for the world to see. Once again, thank you for the statue, but it is now time to call on Old Europe to help bring honor back to where the statue stands. As an American citizen whose family fought in World War I and II, I beg France, and the rest of Europe for help--please help bring democracy back to the US.

I beg you to send help.

Sincerely,



Daniel Spillane
Seattle, WA USA
June 03, 2004
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-04 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Anything helps...
Great letter, btw!
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