Just received...

[Kikosexy2]

an email from my sister. Please email, send a letter or call your congressman/woman and tell them not to vote for bills SB89 and HR163--they are bills for mandatory military drafts which will go into effect come 6/15/05. The bills includes language stating that crossing over to Canada won't be of any help and college exemption will be eliminated--the draft will be mandatory period! Help stop the madness of King George's illegal wars--do it now!! and Thank you very much!

[HootieMcBoob]

1. Actually I'm for that

I'm gonna call them and tell them to vote for those.

[Dookus]

2. Me, too

it'll be the greatest anti-war tool in our arsenal.

[greekspeak]

4. Really smart

We will see who has control of the tools AND in the arsenal when thousands of young men get shipped off to boot camp and sent overseas to fight more of Bush's colonial wars.

This draft thing is 1) political suicide for any who support it, especially the dems who will be labeled two-faced and 2) it is immoral, because we don't need to be drafting people to fight needless wars.

You can gauren-frigging-tee that any draft is going to unleash the genie of neo-colonialism from the bottle, and the powergrab will be carried out on the backs of young Americans, mostly racial minorities and poorer whites. Think about that before you go all gung-ho for a draft.

[Dookus]

5. I'm not gung-ho for a draft

but I believe if we're going to commit troops overseas, the rich and privileged should sacrifice the same as the poor.

I believe if the powerful felt their own children might be sent to war, we'd be a lot less inclined to start one.

[greekspeak]

11. Come on now...you know as well as I do who goes overseas to fight

these dirty little wars. Do you think all the rich daddies and mommies that want to keep Junior at Yale or Harvard are going to just let the military come and take their little boy? Fuck no. This country is built on the backs of the masses. My own lineage proves it. The ancestors I have that fought for this country were, to a person, poor farmers. The handful of relatively well off people in my family tree managed somehow to keep their babes out of harms way. During the Civil War, for instance, some of my ancestors were conveniently squirrelled away in some Pennsylvania boarding school.

There are only a few ways I would support a draft. First, females and males would be drafted. Second, ALL females and males would be drafted for military service, or there would have to be some sort of compulsory service to the country equal to the sacrifice of those on the front lines. Rich or poor, EVERYONE would have to do something to help the country. I think exemptions to people who have already put their asses on the line in previous wars and police actions would be in order. Third, some serious power to just invade on a whim would have to be taken away from the executive branch of the government. Solid evidence of breach of national security would have to be proven, not just chucked on the table with a demand to sign off. Finally, the neo-colonial direction in which the government of this country is steering would have to change. War is hell, bloody hell, and democrats to do not need to enable the Shrubbery any further.

[Dookus]

12. The bill in question

applies to men and women equally, and doesn't allow the rich to evade service due to college exemptions.

It is sponsored by Charles Rangel, Alcee Hastings, Sheila Jackson-Lee, Eleanor Holmes-Norton, John Conyers and many other very liberal members of the House.

The purpose of it is to raise the issue that the poor are used disproportionately to fight our wars. This bill is unlikely to go anywhere, but it raises a very important question - WHO should make the sacrifice when the powerful decide to go to war?

Currently, almost nobody with a personal stake in it makes these decisions. Perhaps if their own kids were at risk, they'd be a little more open to pursuing other solutions.

[greekspeak]

14. That's pie in the sky

Do you think that when Georgie Porgie and Danny Boy Quayle and the cacophany of other young gentlemen of the 60's got out of service that the draft law said, "unless you are rich, in which case you can buy your precious baby a cushy place in the Air National Gaurd"?

There is no way the richest folks in America will allow their babies to go fight dirty wars. It just is not going to happen. They don't care if the draft is in place or not, because their kids aren't going, Rangel et al be damned.

The 228 years of American history proves this out: money talks.

[Dookus]

15. The whole purpose of this law

is to do away with that. Clearly, in the past it WAS too easy for the well-to-do to avoid service.

Now we have a bunch of the most liberal members of the house saying that's wrong. I agree with them - that IS wrong. It ought to be fixed.

[greekspeak]

17. I agree with you with every ounce of my being

If it is serious enough to fight over, every American should be willing to do her or his part. I agree with Rangel and the others, and I do, truly, think their hearts are in the right place with this legislation. I also respect the fortitude with which you are sticking by your position. It is clear that you feel strongly that this legislation has the power to make changes.

However, I think we all have to face the cold, hard realities of life. I am not a pessimist; I am a realist. The old saying goes "those who ignore history are bound to repeat it." I put a lot of faith in history, in what the cold hard ugly facts of history tell us. What history tells us is that the poor, the young, and the minorities suffer on the battlefield, while the rich WASPS play hookie.

Beleive me...I am all for a paradigm shift. Did you know that in ancient Greece it was the RICH who did the fighting? They were the only ones who could afford the equipment! I don't deny a paradigm shift is possible, but I don't see it coming out of this legislation.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. How many additional Americans have to die for you to prove...

...your point, such that it is?

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Dookus]

10. ashamed of what?

Of wanting the wealthy and powerful to actually put something at risk for their wars?

I'll stand with Charlie Rangel, John Conyers, Sheila Jackson-Lee, Jim McDermott, Eleanor Holmes-Norton, Pete Stark, James Moran, Nydia Vasquez, Alcee Hastings and the other leftist sponsors of this bill.

[redwitch]

3. NO TO DRAFT!

The people who think it is such a great idea- do you have kids who will be affected? I do. Two sons- one of whom turns 18 in January. This administration is not sane- and I won't risk losing my boys to their madness.

[Kikosexy2]

9. I'm an..

uncle of 12 nieces and nephews. Two nephews are in the Army already and have and are on tour in Iraq. The others are 17 and up. Bad enough I worry along with my sister and the rest of my family for my 2 nephews. My family and I really don't want to be worrying much more for the rest--it's bad enough already. Really think about this, especially those with children who are old enough to serve in the military. And especially in this illegal war in Iraq. Do you really want to sacrifice your child's life just to make greedy SOBs richer and richer, while they don't really give a shit?? Think about it! If they do bring back the draft, yes, I hope it backfires in the politicians' faces or better yet the youth of today rebel like never before. But really think this through--our childrens' lives are at stake here!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

6. This is the bill introduced by Rangel

Full text here:

http://www.theorator.com/bills108/hr163.html

The basic gist of the bill:

Every person between the ages of 18 and 26 will be required to give 2 years for either military service, or some related civilian activity ("homeland security" stuff, I'd assume)

It also appears that the period of service cannot be extended arbitrarily. I see no provision for allowing extension of the service period in times of war, but then I'm not well-versed in reading legalese. (See section 3)


The exemptions from service are: High school students, hardship/disability, gov't unable to provide training (too many people to train at once, in which case you're only off the hook until they have the capacity,) The bill appears to use the same standard for conscientous objectors as "regular" draft procedures.

Also rewrites the Selective Service act to be gender-neutral (i.e. women will be drafted as well)

A couple of additional thoughts:

I *hate* the college deferrment idea to begin with (putting aside the whole notion of whether *any* draft is a good idea.) It just ensures a way out for the rich.

As for fleeing to Canada... well, that was never really legit to begin with.

[Robbien]

7. These two bills are both referred

These are Rangel's bills, the house bill only has a dozen sponsors, the senate bill has none. Both bills have been referred to the Committee on Armed Services.

Right now these are going no where.

[ewagner]

13. While I understand what

Rangel is trying ot accomplish, I believe it's a dangerous move.

Worst case scenario in the House of Representatives is that the bill will be amended to include all the deferrments that were in the original Selective Service act and then the amended bill would be rammed through by a Repub majority with the name of a Democrat on the title.

I sure as hell hope Charlie knows what he's doing........

[PaDUer]

16. These are the twin bills

that I wrote about and posted Santorum's BS snailmail response and how he skirted around the issues. His letter is on DU.
-edit-Also, Congressman Kanjorski's response is on DU that appeared in our local papers.

[Emboldened Chimp]

18. Rengel's bill will never fly, nor will any draft for that matter

Let's face it, our kids are lazy and spoiled. Many of them do nothing but hang out, play video games, go to movies and watch TV. Some play sports, others have garage bands, MANY like to party, some work, some despair over how much life sucks, a lot just want their MTV. When I was draft age (first Gulf War), most of whom I knew had NO DESIRE to serve their country. We all wanted to drink, fuck, do drugs and maybe do our homework once in a while. My point? While SOME kids might be gung-ho to go to war, MANY will say FUCK OFF. They don't want to leave the comforts that consumerism has bestowed upon them all their lives. Any proposal of a draft or mandatory service just shows how out-of-touch politicians--be it Dem or Puke--are with the our nation's youngins.