say it loud & don't be ashamed anymore, buscho DID 9-11

[mopaul]

ignore those who scold you when you say it. you know it's true, and your just as set in your convictions as any other person of faith.
true believers, on either side, can rarely be swayed away from their steadfast beliefs. but occassionally it happens.

they ARE that evil, who can deny it? who can deny they are hellbent on armageddon? who can deny the president hears voices from an alleged god, and claims to be fullfilling god's commands? who can deny that he desires the rapture to make the world right again?

remember, these are the men who lied us into two wars, 850 dead soldiers, 30,000 dead innocents, these are the men who are supporting sharon and call him a man of peace. these are the men who hide from the 9-11 commission and hide the evidence from the very victim's families.

these men are the most evil and corrupt ever to hold the white house.
how can anyone doubt at this point, that they orchestrated 9-11 as the opening psychological hoax upon us all to kick off world war three and show the world once and for all that america is supreme?

if you deny it, then you ain't payin' attention. and i don't care anymore if you disagree. someday i'll say i told ya so. i won't even debate it anymore with non believers. i'm set in my convictions now, and i stand on my worst fears. 9-11 worked out so well for bushco, they'll do it again, mark my words. and it was only the beginning of what they have in store for us.

[BlueEyedSon]

1. Amen.

(and that's from an atheist!)

[jobycom]

2. Then you won't be upset when I call you a moron?

In the nicest way possible, of course. :-)

Yes, BushCo could have done it; no, they are not above it; and yes, it worked out well for them.

But none of that proves a damned thing. My best friend died six years ago, and I got his job making almost double what I had hoped to make in another job. It worked out well for me, but I didn't kill him.

[thebigidea]

3. Its a good thing the cops listened to you when you told them to...

... stop investigating, huh?

When Analogies Attack!

[Mandate My Ass]

7. *snort*

Ouch, hot coffee hurts when it spurts from your nasal passages. :D

[jobycom]

11. I'm guessing that was funny

since Monica_L got it. I just didn't. (Bit of a moron myself, at times).

Are you saying that my analogy was flawed? I'd like to know how, since the cops comment didn't relate to it.

[mopaul]

4. calling me a moron is what i expected of you, so, no, i don't mind

i enjoy a good scolding

[jobycom]

14. Well, I did it with a smiley-face

to show it was good natured ribbing inspired by your invitation to disagree with you.

I was hoping to inspire discussion, not a backhanded dismissal. (For the record, I don't recall calling you a moron before. I tend to like debate and dislike insults, though I'm, sure I get frustrated like anyone else.)

I disagree that Bush's lack of ethics proves anything about 9-11. Prove to me that your argument that he COULD have done it or that he BENEFITTED from it in any way proves he did it. That's my point. Next time I'll avoid attempts at humor, since I seem to have lost that ability.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

100. Just in case you hadn't noticed, you don't "inspire discussion"...

...by calling your opponent a "moron", even if you try to ease the impact with what you believed to be humor.

Here's a challenge for you...YOU prove that the NeoCons knew nothing about what led up to 911, and I might be willing to give you some leeway.

This should be interesting.

[CityZen-X]

31. I'd Rather Be A Moron

Than a, Mushroom National: Those who live in the dark, and thrive on mass quantities of Bu$h*t!!
When I watched the 9/11 in real time I knew at that moment something was definitely wrong with these pix. Hell yes this Bu$h*t regime was in on it! Just look at the cast of evil doer's in this criminal crew. Jack the Ripper would be an angel in this Bu$h*t excuse of a government.

[Straight Shooter]

72. Yes, but we're not bush's best friends

And he doesn't give a rat's ass about any of us, whether we live or die. Our purpose is to serve BFEE and expand its power around the globe.

Sorry about your friend, truly.

[leesa]

90. Would you have tried to block an autopsy or an investigation into his

death for years after the fact? Would you have sent criminal evidence overseas to be used as building material? Would you, if you had a chance to possibly intervene to save your friend's life, would you have sat and read a book about goats while he died?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

99. You may be calling quite a few of us names before this is all over...

...that is, if you still insist on ignoring the tons of evidence supporting LIHOP and/or MIHOP.

[King Coal]

5. Damn Straight

"Some call you the elite, I call you my base. Heh Heh"

Kiss my big ol' white ass Bush! Damn that chaps.

[fdr_hst_fan]

6. Hear, hear-

couldn't have stated the case better!

[maggrwaggr]

20. you call that "stating a case?"

If that's so, I want to meet you in person so I can take all your money

[frylock]

37. poor rebuttal..

bring some research to the table. Turn off your TV, and read 'The New Pearl Harbor'. They did it.

[LoZoccolo]

41. Uh...

...that's what he was saying. Bring some research to the table.

( Shameless plug of my own thread I think is funny: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1709534 )

[frylock]

45. i've done plenty of research..

I'm not going to sit and list a point by point case for MIHOP. What I will do is point you to Paul Thompson's timeline, or ask that you read 'The New Pearl Harbor' by David Ray Griffin.

All I can do is point people in the right direction, but I'm not going to handhold someone who wishes to remain willfully ignorant.

[LoZoccolo]

46. Bahahaha....

Come on, you can give us the gist. Like what is the structure of the argument, proof of facts aside?

[frylock]

50. i don't have all damn day to explain this..

take a day or so and read the timeline yourself. I'm guessing that you won't, because the TV has already told you how it happened.

[LoZoccolo]

53. Come on!

What's the big deal with the timeline at least. Like what does it point to. Surely you can pare that down to a few sentences.

Actually, can I just ask you - is it some thing about how Bush* went and sat in on the photo op even after the planes hit?

[frylock]

61. you're funny

or maybe not.

[LoZoccolo]

63. Anyways, I've made my point.

Objections to LIHOP/MIHOP are dealt with by coercive tactics.

[frylock]

64. huh?

not sure I'm following you here.

[LoZoccolo]

67. Yeah you are.

Come on, you know when someone questions stuff about LIHOP/MIHOP they get put through "why are you on BushCo's side" and "why are you naive" and "explain away some obscure thing with little impact on the big picture", etc. This is in lieu of "I think this is true because..."

And yes, I'm gonna ask you a little preliminary stuff about what you're trying to prove before I waste a bunch of time reading a whole book of details about it. Like if the book doesn't really necessarily have anything to say about LIHOP/MIHOP other than "well they would want something like that to happen" then no, I'm not going to read a whole book about it.

[frylock]

69. all it does is lay out the facts..

and allows you to come to your own conclusions.

Taking to heart the classic idea that those who benefit from a crime ought to be investigated, here the eminent theologian David Ray Griffin sifts through the evidence about the attacks of 9/11--stories from the mainstream press, reports from abroad, the work of other researchers, and the contradictory words of members of the Bush administration themselves--and finds that, taken together, they cast serious doubt on the official story of that tragic day. He begins with simple questions: Once radio contact was lost with the flights, why weren't jets immediately sent up ("scrambled") from the nearest military airport, something that according to the FAA's own manual is routine procedure? Why did the administration's story about scrambling jets change in the days following the attacks? The disturbing questions don't stop there: they emerge from every part of the story, from every angle, until it is impossible not to suspect the architects of the official story of enormous deception. A teacher of ethics and theology, Griffin writes with compelling logic, urging readers to draw their own conclusions from the evidence. The New Pearl Harbor is a stirring call for a thorough investigation into what happened on 9/11. It rings with the conviction that it is still possible to search for the truth in American political life.


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1566565529/qid=1086378733/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-8814577-3714528

[hughee99]

74. I agree that those who benefit from a crime

ought to be looked into but maybe I'm missing something here. Did not the Red Cross and many charitable contrubutions also "benefit" from the crash? Some would argue that Al-Queda also benefitted. Those selling short in the stock market benefitted, as did savvy currency speculators, and the current Israeli administration. To draw the conclusion that someone DEFINATELY did it based on the whether they benefitted, and citing mistakes as willful incompetence is still a little far fetched for me. I think it was LIHOP rather than MIHOP. Perhaps I'll feel more convinced once I read the book. Thanks for the link.

78. What if there were certain pieces of evidence?

Not that they DID it, but certainly they knew of the impending disaster, and did nothing.

Who is a credible source doing investigation of this matter?

Let's say someone had little clue in their life, back in 2001, which meant nothing then...but now...¿

[TruthIsAll]

152. Bush himself admitted foreknowledge of 9/11...twice..

When he said that he saw the FIRST plane hit the WTC live on TV.

Stick that in your craw.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

101. So, what you're really stating is that you have nothing factual with...

...which you can argue against LIHOP/MIHOP?

By the way, the definition of "coercive" is as follows:

"using force to persuade people to do things which they are unwilling to do"

<http://www.freesearch.co.uk/dictionary/coercive>

Is that the word you really meant to use?

[LoZoccolo]

104. Sorry. Bzzzzt. Not the way it works.

When you accuse someone of something devistatingly evil, the burden's on you, not me.

Prove to me you don't beat the shit out of your wife twice a week. You cannot give me one fact of proof.

[stickdog]

129. But who do you think did it? Why doesn't the same argument apply to

the "other"?

[LoZoccolo]

131. Because I didn't accuse anyone of doing it.

I've got ideas, but I don't go starting threads to rally people who just believe the same way I do.

And I don't call instantly call people naive or whatever if they don't believe me.

[stickdog]

134. I don't agree with the initial post. My point is that it's no different

from what corporate media (and TPTB) told us to think about Bin Laden and Afghanistan in the days following 9/11.

[TruthIsAll]

153. Bush himself admitted foreknowledge of 9/11...twice..

Bush himself admitted foreknowledge of 9/11...twice..


When he said that he saw the FIRST plane hit the WTC live on TV.

Stick that in your craw.

[LoZoccolo]

105. P.S. Maybe. Maybe "manipulative" is a better one, I don't know.

Imagine a friend is trying to get you into his Amway scheme despite numerous stated doubts on your part. Whatever word you'd use to describe that, I'd say that would be pretty close to the word I'm trying to use.

[stickdog]

130. Imagine that you believed whatever the TV told you without asking for

a shred of proof and decided that any other interpretation required proof.

I don't know if it was LIHOP or MIHOP, but I know that almost every aspect of the official story stinks to high heaven.

How about you?

[LoZoccolo]

132. I was questioning the conspiracy theory...

...and pointing out the tactics of people who promote it (and asking for proof). There may be this or that that seems out of place, but it's no reason to try to tack it on the people who I'd like to tack it on to.

[leesa]

91. Are you to lazy to even look?? There is far more evidence pointing to the

Bush regime being involved than there EVER was that OBL or Al Qaeda was involved. If fact there is virtually NO evidence that OBL was involved. Ask the 7 or so "terrorists" who somehow survived the plane crashes and are alive and well.

[LoZoccolo]

97. No.

I'm too busy for a wild goose chase.

(And this is another one of the coercive tactics of LIHOP/MIHOP people - "are you too lazy". Sorry, it's not my obligation to go investigate this thing given to me by someone who won't even tell me the most basic stuff about it.)

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

103. So?

Suspicion does not equal proof. Just because you have "questions" doesn't mean you can accuse the government of LIHOP/MIHOP. And the fuck is wrong with me asking a few questions of my own, eh? Stuff like "can you prove that" or "what makes you think that". Sorry I didn't know to scour the internet for scattered tenuously twistable things to fit a set of convenient delusions I should have - this being "too lazy to look up information" you speak of.

(The feigned impatience ("I've had about enough") is another coercive tactic. The pathetic thing about it is people like Sean Hannity use it too much too. Ew.)

[lanparty]

110. Magic Bullet ...

The magic bullet theory does not constitute proof. The fact that JFKs brain exploded out the BACK of his head does not constitute proof. The number of bullet holes in the walls from the Robert Kennedy assasination does not constitute proof.

What they do is show that the powers that be are LYING. There story simply does not add up. We probably will NEVER know exactly what happened. But one must ask the question. Why lie about mundane things???? What motive is there to create fantasies around things where there is no guilt to be assigned to those doing the investigating????

Something STINKS royally about the 9/11 stories. Something stinks about the way our Air Force acted like incompentent boobs. What was on the tape that the FAA smashed and then ginsued and disposed of in 100 DIFFERENT garbage cans????

Why did Bush go to a 2nd grade classroom when he KNEW the WTC was struck by a plane. Why did he remain there when a SECOND plane struck the WTC. Why wasn't Bush hustled out of the school by the Secret Service???

Why did WTC 7 fall down from "fires" caused by falling debris, but the closer WTC 5 remained standing??? Why did Guiliani choose NOT to go to the command center in WTC 7 that day????

Why did WTC7 collapse from fire when no other high rise has EVER fallen even when sustaining more sever damage??? Why did the owner of WTC 7 tell PBS that he decided to "pull" the building???

Why were the remains of WTC 7 carted off overseas when there are PLENTY of steel facilities in the US that could have handled the debris???? Especially considering that US steel-makers have been in trouble for quite some time??? Couldn't they use the business????

Why were the Saudis hustled out of the country immediately after 9/11??? No one had yet made the connection between 9/11 and the Saudis. Everyone was ASSUMING Saddam Hussein had done it. Doth the Saudis protest too much?????

Why was the Cole investigation cancelled by the Bush administration??? How on gods earth did a terrorist passport survive the plane crash but the planes black boxes did not???? Isn't this an OBVIOUS plant. How did the FBI know WHO the hijackers were the very next day???? Why were two highjackers living with FBI informants??? Why were two separate investigations into individuals taking flight lessons without learning how to take of and land killed by the FBI????

None of this is evidence. But the answers given for ALL these questions are complete bullshit!!!!

Why is the Bush administration STILL impeding the investigation into 9/11???


I sincerely hope that Kerry will have the BALLS to re-open the 9/11 investigation if he is elected. The current commision is doing little more than whitewashing the issue.

[LoZoccolo]

115. Now here's someone who's honest about it.

None of this is evidence.

But the title of this thread is "say it loud & don't be ashamed anymore, buscho DID 9-11".

And that's my point; you people are having a hurrah-fest in lieu of evidence of your theory.

Remember when Bush* was pretending that we knew they had weapons of mass destruction even though the inspectors weren't finding them? And the right-wing talk show hosts were all saying that over and over again like it was true? It's something like that.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

126. Ha ha ha ha ha...

...ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

This rawks!

I'm not interested at this point in getting you to concede - you're not going to. It's like arguing with a cult member. At this point I'm just happy to know that sane people will see this thread before they get sucked into a load of weird.

So tell me, when the right-wingers come and tell you any of their conspiracy theories, are you lazy if you don't waste all your time debunking something that isn't established to begin with? Bahahahaha.

I like that "just the way it works". No it isn't. Bahahahaha.

[LoZoccolo]

128. You may wonder why I have such an interest in this.

Part of it is I'm just interested in truth and sanity, especially here.

Part of it is I acknowledge that conspiracy theories aren't harmless. Ask the people who know people that died in Oklahoma City.

Another part is I'm sick and tired of how obnoxious you people get trying to bully people into believing your fairy tales. Threads like "can someone tell me why I shouldn't believe LIHOP" and going around calling people naive and la da da da da dee da da. Especially when I try to elicit any details and I get stuff like "it takes too long" and then get accused of being lazy and junk. If you need to run around insulting people to get them to see something so "obvious", something's probably wrong.

[TruthIsAll]

154. Bush himself admitted foreknowledge of 9/11...twice..

Bush himself admitted foreknowledge of 9/11...twice..


When he said that he saw the FIRST plane hit the WTC live on TV.

Stick that in your craw.

[RedSock]

117. a few sentences????????????

Thompson's timeline is like 400+ pages long and growing -- and nearly every sentence (both in the basic timeline and all the lyriad tangent timelines) is backed up by a cite to the complete text of a mainstream news account. I suggest you take a month to print it out and read it. We'll be here when you get back.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

[LoZoccolo]

127. You miss my point completely.

If it's absolutely necessary that every detail of 400 pages be recounted in order to come to one conclusion, then you could debunk one detail of it and the whole thing would topple, right? Probably not. Which is why I think you could summarize at least what it tries to prove with that amount of detail.

So far all I've heard is questions. I bet cops have questions all the time like "what is that black guy doing driving through a white neighborhood". Doesn't make it alright to stop him just for that.

[stickdog]

133. Here's the gig, LoZoccolo.

We've read the entire timeline. You haven't.

The timeline makes it clear that over 90% of the official story is bs using mainstream media sources almost exclusively.

Many specific details can be "explained away" by bad initial reporting or incredible levels of incompetence. However, the entire picture is clear, and that picture is that the narrative we have been sold is full of more plot holes than an Ed Wood movies.

Here is a three page newspaper article:

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/local/6742902.htm?1c

Care to comment?

[LoZoccolo]

140. Yeah, I'll comment.

Looks like a lot of questions to me.

[stickdog]

141. And that's just scratching the surface ...

Where are the answers almost three years later?

[LoZoccolo]

143. Yeah but they're just questions.

This threads gone on for like 24 hours and all I have is a bunch of questions. Hardly the stuff of a solid LIHOP/MIHOP case. So for now, to me, this issue is to rest until someone makes a different case. And as I've said, the "naive", "in denial", yipsy dipsy all that doesn't really affect me because I've seen what's behind it.

[stickdog]

144. They aren't *just* questions. They're critical questions that should have

been answered long ago.

But they've never been answered.

If you want to play agnostic about this, feel free. That's the sensible tack to take. But don't confuse believing Bin Laden perpetrated 9/11 until someone proves otherwise with being agnostic.

The official story hasn't been backed up with a shred of hard evidence and it leaves us with huge, important questions that should have been answered long ago. How are we supposed to interpret this?

Unless we are prepared to believe the worst of any obvious and egregious cover up, what incentive do our leaders have to lift their unconscionable veil of secrecy?

[LoZoccolo]

145. Ah, so that's what this is about.

Unless we are prepared to believe the worst of any obvious and egregious cover up, what incentive do our leaders have to lift their unconscionable veil of secrecy?

"We don't really believe MIHOP, but if we pretend we do we can really scare them!"

[stickdog]

146. What we know for sure is 1) we aren't being told the truth and

2) we wouldn't put it past them.

[LoZoccolo]

106. Funny thing I realized about this.

It takes all day to explain, yet if someone doesn't "see" this, they must be "naive" or "blind" or "scared of the implications".

[Yupster]

119. In a year President Kerry

will be in charge and there will be many yelling that he is part of the BFEE because he won't answer their questions about 9-11, and every time a question is answered, it will just lead to 20 more questions as the conspiracy will continue to broaden.

Or, everyone will have left 9-11 and moved on to the newest conspiracy whatever that will be.

[LoZoccolo]

47. P.S. my whole point of my response to this thread...

...is to point out that it's just a kind of jingoism for LIHOP/MIHOP people. Now why would this be necessary?

[JohnLocke]

156. What "case"?

Facts in Mopaul's Post
(This space intentionally left blank)

[MuseRider]

8. I am so with you.

I don't care who thinks I am crazy. It took me a couple of months to get from LIHOP to MIHOP and I have been there ever since. Lots of talk of this at the Jazz Festival last weekend and this is not somthing that only wackos believe. Folks who are too busy and travel too much to spend all their time on the net were as sure as I am without the benefits of this wonderful site full of ideas. I think it is not as uncommon a belief as some think.

[Th1onein]

57. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I always say.

I'm with you, my MIHOP friend. All the way.

[lanparty]

112. I'm with you ...

I have been escalating from "Bush is a lazy, arrogant bitch", to "Bush is a psycopathic murderer". It takes some work making the transition.

The big keys are

1) The WTC 7 implosion
2) The magic paper "passport" found on top of the WTC remains when the black box was supposedly incinerated.
3) The lack of ANY Air Force response that morning when Payne Stewarts little jet attracted no less than 6 fighter jets.
4) Bush's COMPLETE lack of action that morning.
5) The FAA ginsu tape that was cut up and distributed among 100 different garbage cans.
6) The engine that was found completely separate from flight 11 in Pennsylvania (that flight was actually shot down).
7) Condi Rice lying about having "no idea" that terrorists could attack using hijacked airplanes.


Everything about the incident STINKS to high heavan. It is 1984. The terrorists are Eurasia. This is Bush's way of controlling people.

I agree, we are probably in for another attack before the election. I don't think Osama Bin Ladin will be captured. He is the dreaded Goldenstein. He is more useful to the neo-cons out there in the world than in a jail cell.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

9. i am an unabashed MIHOP to the core...

[seabeyond]

10. i am tryin to get people to believe he is NOT a good

"war" president. that he is incompetent, creating more and more and more of a mess with each decision

hardly to point of convincing people of his evilness to take down 3 thousand people. they are hardly there yet

[LunaC]

12. Another piece of the puzzle

The "911 hijackers" had lived in Germany prior to the WTC attack.

Germany was involved in the May and July 2001 plan to attack Afghanistan before mid-October.

Yesterday Tim Russert interviewed James Woolsey who casually remarked "The CIA doesn't operate in Germany."

DING....DING.....DING......

Germany was the PERFECT location to hatch the 911 plot because it was out of reach of prying CIA eyes. That's how/why the whole damn thing was kept so secret.

I knew Germany was a Big Player in the whole thing and when I heard Woolsey's off-handed remark the last piece of the puzzle fell into place.

[truthspeaker]

13. George W Bush. AWOL in 1972. AWOL in 2001.

I'm not convinced of MIHOP or even LIHOP yet, but I do love the above slogan.

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. I've always thought so, since day one in fact

And I sure hope they don't "do it again." :scared:

[Minstrel Boy]

16. "Everyone in the rest of world knows, that what they've been sayin'

just couldn't be so / Yes everyone in the whole world knows, except for the ones who need to know." (Man, I do love quoting Paranoid Larry.)

Seen the recent Canadian poll? 63% believe the "US had prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks and did nothing" (I'd say that's LIHOP), and another 16% hold that "individuals within the US Government were involved in the planning and execution of the events of September 11th" (MIHOP). http://www.911inquiry.org/911PollResults.htm

And any coincidental theorists who want to talk Occam's Razor are going to die the death of a thousand cuts. Weighing the evidence, and there is a fucking ton of it, the most reasonable, simplest explanation is complicity at the highest levels.

Still, the denial is great. But disregarding the facts of the deep criminality of this regime, and at the heart of the National Security State, is fast becoming a mental health issue.

[AntiCoup2K4]

17. Count me in

I've believed these fucking pieces of shit were behind 9-11 since about 6:06 AM on that very day (West coast time) :grr:

[laruemtt]

18. we have three late-teeners /

early 20's staying here for a few days for SD's hs graduation. just showed them TBTM's "Bush Knew" flash. they're completely there with it. i just told them to keep their passports at the ready and be prepared to book, cuz bushco's coming for them next year.....

[maggrwaggr]

19. you're telling me to simply "believe?" Sorry, no can do

I think MIHOP is about a 75% probability. But preaching at me to "believe" it in such a way really really

REALLY

rubs me the wrong way.

There were a ton of people who "believed" the way you're "believing" that Clinton killed Vince Foster etc. etc. etc. etc.

Fuck that. I'm not one of them.

[mopaul]

21. not once did i ask or tell you to believe anything

believe what you want, that's what i do. somebody tells me 19 crazy arabs did it, i don't believe it, and no one can force me to.

some still believe oswald acted alone. not me. it was a huge conspiracy that CAN'T be proved.

[maggrwaggr]

79. uh, you might want to re-read your post, pal

and re-read mine. I said I think MIHOP is a 75% probability.

I think it's way more probable than the official story fed to us by our government.

But the way you're putting it really rubs me the wrong way.

You know it's true. Believe it in your heart. That kind of shit.

Go ahead and look like a nut case. See how many converts you win.

[lanparty]

113. Isn't it interesting ...

That they knew EXACTLY who all the 19 crazy arabs were the VERY NEXT DAY!!!!!! Granted they had passenger manifests. But did they simply take the lists and pick out anyone with Arab names?????

The FBI seemed so incredibly incompetent and obtuse on 9/11. On 9/12 they seemed like the wizzes of the world. That is quite a transformation.

[Yupster]

120. I think you about have it

They pretty much started with just noticing there were 4-5 Arab men on each flight. Then they found out who they were.

[CaptainClark23]

25. Don't want to answer for the man, but...

I can see how this could rub the wrong way. I too hate absolutes.

Its often said take what you need and leave the rest.

And this is what I take away, offered as an alternate interpretation of what MoPaul is saying:

Stop being afraid of thinking the worst. If everything in your mind and instinct point to a conclusion, then embrace it. Do not let fear govern your public position. It is time for us MIHOP'ers to really stand up and address this, in all circumstances. Enough pussy footing around sharing these awful "truths" with eachother and patting eachother on the back for thinking the same as the next MIHOP'er. We've gone beyond that and its time to take our knowledge and reasoning and take it to those who do not agree with us.

The same rationale can be applied if you replace MIHOP with PNAC...we know all these things and repeat them ad infinitum to eachother and to those who come to find such. It is safe here in DU. Its a dangerous world out there. Time to suck it up and "preach the gospel" as it were.

[LoZoccolo]

22. When the facts aren't enough...

...rally the troops.

:eyes:

[NecessaryOnslaught]

33. Where are your "facts"?

Immortal arabs hijack and crash planes?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

[LoZoccolo]

40. Hahahaha.

In case anyone took my poll a few days ago, this is the "Mister Smart Guy" response.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1709534

[NecessaryOnslaught]

49. Just as predicted

Can't answer why the "hijackers" are still alive, can you? Not that it's important to know who the hijackers were. :eyes: :crazy: :eyes:

[LoZoccolo]

54. So?

Twelve days later some of the guys they think might have done it at first turned out to not have done it. This means they let/made it happen on purpose?

[Imperialism Inc.]

56. I have seen this story in various places.

Do you have the information refuting this? I would honestly like it. I always thought it seemed very strange, but it was always in some unfamiliar source, so I assumed maybe it wasn't accurate. Now I see it was in the BBC.

" FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged on Thursday that the identity of several of the suicide hijackers is in doubt."

Thanks for any links.

[LoZoccolo]

65. It says nothing is what I say.

So they named someone as a suspect, and then twelve days after the crime found out he was still alive. So? That's why they are "suspects" and not "guys we know did it".

[NecessaryOnslaught]

75. Yet the hijackers remain on the FBI's website

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/091401hj.htm

[LoZoccolo]

86. That's a press release from three days after the attack!

And if they took it down, someone'd be screaming that they're sending stuff down the memory hole!

[Sterling]

94. I dont see where the FBI indicates they were incorrect?

Do you?

[LoZoccolo]

96. So?

That was the press release as they released it that day! That's why it's dated! If they went changing things there'd be no record of what was released that day!

THIS IS FUCKING STUPID. This has absolutely no bearing on whether or not our own government is responsible for 9/11.

My whole point is that conspiracy theorists use manipulative tactics, like "I'm going to believe what I want until you're back from your wild goose chase I've sent you on about one little discrepancy that has little bearing on the thing". And at this point, I don't care about whether or not you're going to admit that or use some weird tactic to save face; a sane person can look at this conversation and tell that without any help.

[Yupster]

122. My guess would be

the real hijackers used fake passports. Maybe because they thought they could get into the country or attract less attention that way.

[jus_the_facts]

68. WANT SOME FACTS.....read THIS thread....Deep Background.....

....this is HISTORY...it isn't CONSPIRACY....now tell me why should I believe 9/11 wasn't completely orchestrated by PNAC?! :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1095506

[Tamiati]

147. Kick Ass

Checked the link, good info on history & the eternal order of "mason" business. Keep this link for reference, I have printed it for those who won't believe.

Like I keep saying the master plan has been in place since the early 1900's & we are not part of it.

We need to brainstorm on this & kick into action ANY viable plan that could topple this whole thing. Suggestions??

[Jose Diablo]

149. Here is winderboy dejavu chap11...the most important IMO

http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu11.html

[Tamiati]

151. Keep it Kicked Up

Let's keep that link kicked up, more individuals need to know about the skull & bones & the mason's secret society.

[TruthIsAll]

155. We have the facts...

Bush himself admitted foreknowledge of 9/11...twice..


When he said that he saw the FIRST plane hit the WTC live on TV.

Stick that in your craw.

[Delano]

23. You provide no evidence at all. Nobody ever does.

YES - they are that evil

YES - they displayed supreme incompetence in their non-reaction as it unfolded

YES - they were off the ball in anti-terrorism before (and after) 9-11

YES - They exploited 9-11 shamelessly after.

YES - they had the motive

NO - I have yet to see a shred of proof that they "did" it, and that's all that really matters, isn't it?

So, no, I will not destroy my credibility among my acquaintances by making those claims. I will support a better investigation, and pound home criticism of their obvious incompetence in the matter, but chicken-little tinfoil stuff with no proof only makes people look STUPID.

[mopaul]

26. accepting the official story, now THAT would be stupid

i never called YOU stupid

[Delano]

27. I never called you stupid either - you may be right.

Looking stupid in the eyes of most and actually being stupid are 2 different things.

But I guarantee you will drive away more people than you attract by pushing unfounded theories based merely on your intuition.

It's a free country, say what you want to say.

I wish I really knew who was behind it...

[Sterling]

82. If you believed in gravity in 1545 you would have "looked" stupid too.

But you would have been one of the smartest humans alive most likely.

If everyone jumped off a bridge.......

[Branjor]

28. Not a shred of proof?

Why weren't our air defenses scrambled immediately on 9/11?

[Delano]

29. That's proof of incompetence.

Proof of deliberately causing the attacks? No. It is evidence,but not enough - same goes for letting the Bin Ladens out of the country. It makes Bush look bad & suspicious, but it's not enough to convince me, and I'm inclined to belive that they are quite capable of it.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

80. Ordering FBI agents...

To cease investigations is not incompetence.

[lanparty]

118. No, it's proof of a stand down order!!!

Do you really believe that the FAA and NORAD are THAT stupid.

NORAD says they were "wargaming" that morning. That they were simulating the VERY SAME phenomenon that was happening. They say they though thought those planes were PART of the simulation, not real.

Now think for a second. NORAD has been doing this shit a VERY LONG time using nuclear weapons. Do you think for a second that they would be completely unable to respond to a nuclear attack DURING A WARGAME?????

So during the cold war, all the Soviets needed to know is WHEN NORAD was performing a "war game" and attack then. The Americans would be blinded and unable to respond right???? Do you really think the Air Force is this stupid????

At the same time, do you seriously believe they would "war game" and not have someone watching the "REAL" radar screens??? Do you think they are THAT stupid.


Scrambling planes does NOT require the consent of the President. They do it ALL the time. Someone goes off their flight plan and the FAA gives notification. Then if they don't respond, they send up a plane. Bush himself was trained to do these intercept missions. It's all just policy.

The President only needs to be involved to make the decision to shoot the sucker down. The Air Force could send their entire fucking fleet of F-16s after the bugger without presidential consent.

Then they say "we had no jets in range". Are you fucking kidding me. There is an Air Force Base right outside of Washington. They couldn't respond. Those planes go 1400MPH at top speed!!!!!! A fucking Amtrack speed train could have gotten from Washington to New York with the lead time that NORAD had to respond. Besides this, we still DO have PLENTY of Air Force bases dotting the northeast.

Nope, sorry, someone told the Air Force to STAND DOWN!!!!! Perhaps Bush in the classroom was their BS cover story why they didn't scramble. The president couldn't becuase he was pre-disposed. In fact, they TRIED to float that story about Andrew Card first telling the president about the attacks during the reading session.

Most Freepers STILL believe the story. However, reporters asked the president about the incident BEFORE he got to the school. Damn those reporters, they foiled Bush's cover story. They even used their FANCY ass cell phones with their call logs to confirm the times they talked to their producers.

Sorry, but the Air Force WAS in stand down mode that morning. Only ONE person could order that, President GW Bush. Their behavior was completely irregular and non-regulation.

And here is the truly magical question. Why would the President order the Air Force to stand down on THAT particular day????

[Minstrel Boy]

30. You haven't seen a "shred"? Allow me:

Just a few DU threads, supplying more than a few "shreds" for your consideration. Is this all in our po' wittle paranoid heads?

9/11: The BCCI Connection
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=658476

Were these warnings specific enough, Condi?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1375723

DOJ Asked FBI Translator To Change Pre 9-11 Intercepts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=442067&mesg_id=442067

"bizarre coincidence": Cheney monitors crash simulation morning of 9/11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1298401

New bombshell: on 9/11 Pentagon conducted live-fly hijacking wargame
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1694495

Another standdown: security at WTC on 9/11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x10267#10268

Explosive new Sibel Edmonds interview
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1555133&mesg_id=1555133

F.A.A. Official Scrapped Tape of 9/11 Controllers' Statements
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=535331&mesg_id=535331

Some hijackers trained at US military bases
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1296012#1297012

CIA met with Bin Laden 2 months prior to 9/11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1111999

Heroin, Al Qaeda and the Florida Flight School
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1294206

Jeb Bush seized flight school records at 2 AM on September 12
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1328855

May 8, 2001: Cheney begins coordinating response to domestic attacks
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1007969

Mohamed Atta loved pork chops, and 49 other things you may not know
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1433886

New options put fear factor into trading (9/11 options trading)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x509119

Raytheon, and Hani Hanjour's flight of fantasy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=976740&mesg_id=976740

The 9/11 whistleblowers-get-screwed data dump
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1293947

Why did FBI Special Agent Frasca suppress field agent terrorist memos?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1297030#1297091

Bush's evidence of demeanor
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=918713

Bush knew. Now, do you?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=995140

[nolabels]

136. Thanks Minstrel Boy

You just turned this into a keeper for me :hi:

Btw mopaul is also priceless :kick:

[NecessaryOnslaught]

32. A blind man in a dark room

Is there a shred of evidence implicating al-kada? NONE. Is there a 9/11 coverup? without a doubt.

[boxster]

36. You mean - other than Bin Laden taking credit for it on video?

No, nothing other than that.

Oh, please. Not a shread of evidence that Al-Qaeda was involved? I suggest that you take a different approach, because that one is simply ludicrous.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

38. Don't sing it, bring it.

[mopaul]

39. you honestly believe those tapes?

every time a new osama tape comes out, they debate if it's even real, really him, old edited stuff, really his voice, and then days go by before the c.i.a. tells us if they are indeed real or not.

why are they always so grainy, as if recorded on ancient cameras? don't they have access to new cameras over there?

just because there is a video of osama confessing, which i have never seen, doesn't prove that al quada did it.

that's the official bush story, so i automatically don't believe it.

but you do.

[boxster]

52. Wrong.

Oh, boy. Days, huh? Can't imagine why it would take days to check out the validity of a videotape. Are you in the security industry? Do you understand how much time and effort goes into matching something like that?

No, you'd rather just make your vague claims and chastise others for not jumping on every conspiracy wagon that ambles on by, regardless of how ridiculous the claims are.

And, trust me, claiming Al Qaeda had nothing to do with 9/11 is ridiculous. Ignoring the threat Bin Laden and Al Qaeda posed/poses is equally dangerous.

Just ask the people in Spain who died when AQ blew up a train.

Oh, but wait. We must have done that. We planned it about the same time we were planning Berg's execution.

We must have bombed the USS Cole, too, right?

Yeah, and Al Qaeda is just a myth.

You guys are too funny. You don't want to accept the possibility that a videotape could be what it appears to be, yet at the same time, you want the rest of us to blindly buy into outlandish conspiracy theories filled with innuendo, half-truths, and in many cases, complete lack of proof whatsoever.

Bush may have let it happen on purpose or ignored the myriad signs of impending doom, but Bin Laden MADE it happen.

[frylock]

42. other than Bin Laden taking credit for it on video?

fat Osama or skinny Usama? Which one did it?

[Minstrel Boy]

44. Only his CIA contact knows for sure.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

43. two sides to every story

The BBC's John Simpson said a source who had met Mr Bin Laden just two days ago said the Saudi dissident had been stripped of all of his complicated and sophisticated communications equipment.

An aide for Mr Bin Laden quoted him as denying he had planned the attack, but calling it a "punishment from Allah".

"I have no information about the attackers or their aims and I don't have any links with them," the aide quoted Mr Bin Laden as saying.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1543135.stm

[boxster]

51. You forgot to mention that the article you linked was nearly 3 years old.

Perhaps you should do a little more research. There have been a few developments in the story since 9/14/01 - the date of your article.

Of course, that wouldn't fit in with your agenda.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

55. The tape you offered as proof

is just as old as this article. What is your point?

"There have been a few developments in the story since 9/14/01 "

Again, don't sing it- bring it.

[boxster]

59. Really? Hmm, seems the article has a date.

Care to provide your proof that the Bin Laden tapes are dated?

Care to explain how he discussed details of recent events?

Oh, I forgot. He's dead/in custody/it isn't him.

Pretty convenient for you and your theories.

[Sterling]

83. Did you look at the photos from the different video's?

The one you claim is the confession vid is the one that is most clearly not Osama. You cant think those are the same person unless you have very bad vision problems.

[AntiCoup2K4]

88. You mean that video with the "short fat Osama"

who looked absolutely nothing like Bin Laden? Hell, Kerry looks more like Osama than that actor did.

(and no, unlike certain 527's funded by certain candidates I wasn't comparing Kerry TO Osama, just mentioning that some people have long faces, and others don't. And the "Osama" in that alleged confession video did not)

[Yupster]

123. I saw Clinton say

As soon as he heard of it in Australia he immediately thought it was OBL. Of course that may not have been the real Clinton. It may be the roboClinton created by the BFEE.

[lanparty]

116. The Bushes doth protest too much ...

They are the ones stonewalling and hiding. They are the ones who resist a full accounting. Excactly WHAT are they trying to hide???

If they truly were innocent, then release ALL the documents and ALL the information. This is what honest people do. Those documents would only exonnerate you.

Look at the conduct of Richard Clarke. They threaten to show a few emails, Richard Clarke says "SHOW THEM ALL. DECLASSIFY EVERYTHING, GET EVERYTHING OUT IN THE OPEN". That is a man I trust. He has nothing to hide.

Perhaps they truly are hiding their own incompetence. But WTC 7 is the clincher. That building was not destroyed by fire. Nor did a diesel explosion bring it down. It just plain fell down as if all it's support columns were blown simultaneously. If it truly was a diesel explosion, why ship all the scrap overseas before the NTSB got to look it over completely????

I have been on the other side of the fence. But there are now too many questions to ignore. The Bush stories do NOT make sense. They are hiding something. WHAT, they are hiding is a matter for your imagination. My imagination increasingly says that they KNEW, and they actually HELPED but planting explosives to MAKE SURE that the towers would fall down.

[ElementaryPenguin]

24. Little doubt in my mind! MIHOP city! Anyone who'll start a fake war!

Fucking traitorous monsters!!

:puke:
:argh:
:mad:

[Insider]

34. agreed

who needs proof? the bush admin didn't need proof to start two invasions and kick in the patriot act.

we let our officials commence TWO INVASIONS of sovereign nations based on NO PROOF (and more than a few falsehoods). who called them on their lack of proof??? they have killed thousands with no proof.

we're not starting anything, and still get beat up for 'no proof'. just making an assessment. MIHOP.

call bush and tell him 'no proof'.

[hunter]

35. I've always wondered if the towers needed to come down...

Maybe some fault or hanky-panky in their construction, sort of like the new airport in France... or like the Citicorp Center in N.Y.

What if there had been some danger of the towers falling down spontaneously, and some evil persons decided that flying airplanes into them was the most politically expedient means of demolition?

No demolition permits, no long drawn out scandals, and the opportunity to blame your enemies for the horror of it all.

:scared:

about secret repairs to Citicorp Center:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/wonder/structure/citicorp.html

(edited to add citicorp center link)

[Sterling]

84. I think they did. Asbestos for one thing.

Since they came down from an attack I wonder if the interests involved were not bailed out of the liabilty they would have incured from a controlled demo that they would eventually have to contend with like all buildings. It has been provd that the dust from the WTCs was toxic. We all breathed poison for weeks. Imagine that out of the context of 9-11. People would sue like mad. It would be a huge finacial disater for the interests involved.

[Yupster]

121. Well that's a new one

Haven't heard that before.

[Imperialism Inc.]

48. HE TURNED HIS HEAD AND NOW THOUSANDS ARE DEAD!

Sorry that is as loud as I can scream :)

[donhakman]

58. There is PROOF that Atta rammed the WTC

Like the pristine bullet found on JFK's strecher, Mohammed Atta's wallet was found unscathed in perfect condition atop the debris of the World Trade Center.
...........................










satire

[boxster]

60. Not really satire.

More like an urban legend.

[donhakman]

62. Here is the photo of the plane that hit the Pentagon

.























.
thats right there is not a single one.

[Imperialism Inc.]

66. Hehehe. That was pretty cool.

I likes it.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sterling]

85. Embarassing isn't it.

Some of these lazy/loadmouths claim to be Deomcrats.

[Sterling]

93. Yes created by the PNACers. They made the cliam not us.

They are mum about it now but they said it.

check it out:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2001/09/11637.html

[genius]

71. I said this on 9-11

[rumguy]

73. MIHOP: no way

LIHOP: maybe...

[MrSlayer]

76. I agree, Engineered and executed by the PNAC.

The PNAC documents are the Mein Kampf of this administration.

[goforit]

92. Yep...........They ARE the #1 terrorists of the world!!!

But we won't tell those who believe the world is still flat.

[Zorra]

77. LIHOP vs. MIHOP.

MIHOP is first degree murder.

LIHOP is third degree murder.

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/true911.html

Bush knew.

[Avalon Sparks]

81. I agree with you Mo~

I believe in LIHOP but I don't rule out MIHOP either. I mainly don't believe in MIHOP because I don't think those morons could of pulled it off.

I agree with you that it worked out so well for them, they will try to do it themselves.

And they'll do it before the election.

[DoyBoy]

87. I changed my mind...

I was a firm LIHOPer until I really started doing some heavy research. I am now 99% sure that MIHOP. There are just too many strange circumstances and too many people that benefitted from this incident that have nothing to do with terrorism. Here are a few sites that have excellent information...

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/index.jsp
http://www.physics911.org/
http://www.letsroll911.org/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/investigation77.htm
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/77_deastman1.htm

Now , I realize some of the info on these pages is speculation (albeit interesting speculation). But overall there is VERY compelling evidence for MIHOP!!!

We need to get the message out there! The truth NEEDS to be revealed!!!

http://www.911truth.org/

[Carl Brennan]

109. Those are good links

[Tight_rope]

89. Preach!! My brotha...The Truth shall set you free!! "TIME FOR A SLAP"!!

You got my "AMEN".

Folks think that people like you and I are off our rockers. :crazy:

But that's to be expected.

People in nature have always been skeptical of the truth. It’s not until it “SLAPS” them in the face that they finally wake up (looking delirious I might add) to ask, "What The Hell Is Going On."

Without a doubt, the American people got one hellava “SLAP” in the face on 9/11/01. But it seems that the hand prints have finally faded away and that some have gone back to doing the same wrong that cause the "SLAP” of 9/11.

Well, as you have said my friend, the people of America are due for another “SLAP”.

My only pray is that this time they will pray more attention to the “HAND” doing the slapping.

It’s inevitable. We have been told that the “SLAP” is coming.

We don’t know where, or when, but some do know who. (those who woke up after first “SLAP”).

For now all we can do it sit and wait for the “SLAP”.

[lanparty]

95. WTC 7 ...

... didn't fall down all by itself. Someone pushed it down. It was a controlled demolition. Then there is the impact with WTC 1. The off-center strike caused most of the jet fuel to spew across the building instead of inside of it. There are recording of firefighters high up in the floors that reported little or no fire before WTC came crumbling down.

I thought all these musings were mad before. How could even BUSH do something so incredibly unholy. But if someone would level WTC 7, why not level WTC 1 & 2.

They knew about the planned attacks, so they planted explosives to make the process speed along. They knew all the sensitive documents were contained in WTC 1, 2 and 7.

Then, why did the Air Force stand down that morning. Do you really believe the cover stories about conducting "wargames" and thinking the planes were part of the scenario. Why LIE about the combat readiness of our planes assigned to protect the East Coast. Why does the administration play games and confuse the meanings of the words intercept and engage???

Why did the president waste 45 minutes in a second grade classroom when our nation was under attack. I'll use one of Rhandi Rhode's favorite analogies, the Godfather. When all Don Corleone's shit goes down, he is doing things that are perfectly mundane. Then someone comes and whispers in his ear. So Andrew Card came and whispered in Bush's ear that morning "it's done". Bush was cool as a mob boss who knew he just wiped out a whole host of enemies.

The motive is clear. Bush wanted his "trifecta". He wanted a crisis. He created one just like his father created crisis in Panama and Iraq.



I'm not 100% convinced. But the pieces are starting to add up.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

98. "Good evening, I'd like to report on the state of the war

against the American people"


http://www.guerrillafunk.com/audio/paris/Sonic_Jihad/WhatWouldYouDoLong.mp3

[LincolnMcGrath]

107. MIHOP

Four Generations of the BUSH Crime Family. The Walker-Bush Dynasty has proven itself above the law on many occasions over the last century.

[Rationality]

108. What evidence do you have of this?

We can argue how evil Bush may be, but I'd like to see some evidence before you state that Bush ordered the attacks himself. After all, Pat Roberson can say God is on Bush's side with the same authority you have if you don't have any evidence.

[mopaul]

111. i don't gotta show you nothin'

i have my faith and my opinion to keep me free

[Sideways]

114. Hey baby GOOD to see you rockin on

You don't need to show anybody SHIT. Love to you from Sicily.

MT

[Rationality]

125. Then you're no more logical than the Christofascists in Bush's camp ((nt))

[Liberal Classic]

135. Do you also believe

Jews didn't show up to work that day?

:puke:

[mopaul]

137. i believe i'll have a beer, that's what i believe

i don't have answers, just whacko theories to be ridiculed by those who are 'in the know'.

[Liberal Classic]

138. Thought you weren't debating nonbelievers?

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. Don't assign to stupidity what might be due to ignorance.And try not to assume your opponent is the ignorant one -- until you can show it isn't you. - M. L. Plano

[Minstrel Boy]

139. If it's evidence for complicity you want,

please consult the links on post #30.

Here, let me help you out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1718051&mesg_id=1718632&page=

Sorry, George - stupidity cannot explain this.

[Minstrel Boy]

150. The silence from those who said they hadn't seen a shred of evidence

is noted.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

142. Plenty of Jews died that day

Just ask Mindy Klienberg.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing1/witness_kleinberg.htm

But, correct me if i'm wrong, I don't believe any Israeli nationals died in the Towers.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=77744

[He loved Big Brother]

148. When pieced together

9-11 sounds like it'd be pretty easy to pull off...they could do even more elaborate things and get away with them, I think.