Beware Repugs....some Dems are going to Swtich Parties for 2004!

[KoKo]

Some folks are thinking of "switching votes" from Dem to Repug for this coming election. In the states which allow crossovers (all, I think) this means we can give to the Repugs...but work against.

Actually, becoming a "Bush Pioneer" gives great coverage to us Dems who might be worried about being "targeted" by Asscroft and his "militia."

Some Dems can be "Rangers or Pioneers." We could do this...the professionals in the Dem Party who have money enough to "fly below the radar."

Giving money to Repugs..getting on their "mail list" and registering in the Party...sort of "counteracts" the Freeps but allows us to be "MOLES" in the Repug Party and maybe we can make a BIG DIFFERENCE!

[iconoclastic cat]

1. The logic of this tack escapes me.

Seems like a lot of effort for mischief.

[leyton]

2. Huh?

We raise thousands of dollars for Bush-Cheney between now and September... for what purpose?

[KoKo]

3. To be "cover" and "Moles." There's a group of us who can do this.

We think it's a way to achieve something.... Agree..this isn't for everyone, but it's a way of getting an "IN" that when the rest need help during the Fascist Bush Takeover..we can do an "Underground Railroad" kind of thing.

IOW...it's a way of "going underground" and looking like Repugs, but if things go as badly as we think they are...we can help our fellow Dems by being "underground..above suspicion, having donated big $$$'s and registered Repug.

Some of us think this might be a good time to do this..before this coming election, just "in case"...October Surprise, Terrorist Attack II..that we need to separate ourselves in "Name and Giving" to help ourselves. :shrug: At this point $$$'s to Shrug..aren't worth anything. And, those of us who can be "underground" won't be missed from Dem Party but might be needed later on, if things go very badly in America.

This is only for us Dems who think our system is peril of collapse no matter who is elected, though. It's not for everyone...but some of us think for those of us who could do it..it might be time to get stuff in motion.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

4. Good lord. Please stop.

[KoKo]

5. huh???

:shrug:

[Senior citizen]

17. The night of the long knives

I'm sure Tenet was somebody's "rabbi," but what good does that do them now?

Fascists eat their young--think about the fate of Nazi party loyalists who were later found to have had a distant Jewish ancestor. Well, except Hitler of course. Being "in" with fascists not only won't allow you to help others, you're exceptionally lucky if it will allow you to survive yourself.

There's only one group I know of that are freaking out right now about their "system being in peril of collapse," and it sure ain't Democrats.

[Unperson 309]

34. Night Of Long Knives

was NOT about "distant jewish ancestors". It was about the halting of the more 'socialist' elements among the dissident Sturmabteilung (SA) or "brownshirts" who (along with Ernst Roehm) wanted to "continue the Revolution" instead of settle for the established lines of political power.

Roehm and the men behind him were called "Beefsteak N*zis"... brown on the outside and red on the inside, meaning that they were the more... uh... liberal... wing of the NSDAP. Roehm was what is known as "a 'Du' friend" to adolf Hitler, meaning he was so close to Hitler that he addressed the Fuehrer as the more intimate "Du" (Thou) rather than the more formal "Sie" (you) in conversations. When they started out in the 1920's, I think that both men had the same goal in mind... but the gap widened as Hitler embraced the idea of "coming to power legitimately" and Roehm still advocated direct seizure of power. After the election, and after Hitler was appointed Reichskanzler (Chancellor) by von Hindenburg, Roehm wanted to supplant the established German military with his SA men "The Brown flood tide will wash over the gray rock!" meaning that the old military would be replaced with young revolutionaries.

Hitler knew that he could not hope to hold power for any length of time UNLESS he had the military solidly behind him... and they *hated* Roehm! So he cut a deal. He agreed to remove Roehm from power in exchange for the backing of the German Reichswehr. Roehm's homosexuality (an open secret, after the Muenchener Post got hold of his letters,) made a great pretext.

Hitler and Himmler made up lists of those who were to be arrested, who were to be liquidated, etc. a LOT of "old scores" were settled on June 30th 1934 (Yes, it IS exactly 70 years after the fact that Iraq is going to be "given power", make of that what you will) but the idea of people being killed because they had distant Jewish ancestors was not (AFAIK) among the reasons.

309

[leyton]

18. Wow.

Reality check: Republicans thought the world would end if Clinton were reelected in '96, and Democrats said the same in '84. Republicans survived Clinton, Kennedy-Johnson, plus twenty years of the New Deal. Democrats survived Reagan, Nixon-Ford, Hoover, and the string of Reconstruction-era Republicans that came before. We will survive a two-term president, it's not the end of the world. There is no need for political 'cover' so great that you need to help Bush's campaign.

Second, it's not like a dictator would come after everybody but his donors. Do you expect everyone but the million people (or whatever number of people have donated to Bush/Cheney re-elect) will be under suspicion?

Geez.

Naturally, I will be called naive for this.

[Old and In the Way]

19. You gonna pony up $250K for the Republicans?

This is the funniest post I have read in a long time. And I do believe you are serious about this...did you think this up all by yourself? Or was this suggested by someone else at P4C?

Could it be that perhaps a Republican op is scamming you to part with some serious cash for the RNC?

[camero]

6. Bad idea

Giving them money for their campaign is a really bad idea.

[Rowdyboy]

7. I'm unsure whether to laugh or cry....

I hope the answer is laugh.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

8. This thread makes no sense to me at all.

If you were to contribute 100's of 1000's of $ to shrubco's campaign, which defines "Rangers" and "Pioneers", this would provide a very material benefit to them (i.e. lots of ad blitz coverage in a swing state), with a dubious benefit to the Democrats of having a "mole" providing possible "intelligence".

Now if you could raise the same money for the Dems, the benefit would be much greater just to give it to the Kerry campaign.

If you were seriously advocating this, it would make me wonder if YOU were a mole on DU trying to float some harebrained scheme to get some Dems to raise money for Repubs.

Now, if you knew that there was 100K of money already committed to shrubco (i.e. definitely already leaving the Repub pockets for shrub's campaign coffers), and you could get that money earmarked in YOUR name as the Ranger/Pioneer without contributing anything but your time, then you MIGHT have something. But if you had to contribute 1000 bucks of your own? Please. Give it to Kerry. Or give the lame idea a rest...

[CatWoman]

10. You know, KoKo -- you've always been cool with me

but you kind of asked for Mayberry's response.

[KoKo]

21. But I have given and will still give to Dems....it's "undercover."

That's the point. I'm not advocating everyone do this! NO! But, those of us who are thinking ahead to be the "underground railroad."

[markses]

32. It's called loco in la cabeza

or, just plain nuts.

[Senior citizen]

9. Nary a soul

with the breath of freedom in their lungs would, for any conceivable reason, make it look as if the pukes had enough registered voters to win a race for dog catcher.

Democrats are going to register Democrat, as have hundreds of thousands of independant and third party voters, and, come hell or high water, vote for Kerry and do everything in our power to see that our votes count.

Every dime we can spare will be donated to the Kerry campaign, not only to help his campaign, but also so that he can hire lawyers and campaign workers to make sure there is an end to BBV, "negative votes," improper voter purges, jack-booted thugs trying to keep voters from the polls, butterfly ballots, and the whole host of dirty tricks the pukes pull.

A$$croft can throw us all in Abu Ghraib before we'd give one red cent to the chimp's campaign.

There are some organizations you cannot change by working from within--the National Socialist Party, the KKK, the Aryan Brotherhood, and the present-day Republican Party are just a few that come to mind offhand.

Now there certainly may be pukes who register Democrat because they think they can accomplish some mischief that way. We welcome their hare-brained schemes, their donations to the Kerry campaign if they think they can hurt us by giving us money, and any votes they may cast that are not for Bush. But we don't really need them and wouldn't waste time trying to encourage them.

[napi21]

11. What are you smokin' tonight?

Get rid of it! It's bad stuff!!!!

I can see registering as a Pub to get the mailings, even registering on the Pub sites so you can see how the wind is blowing, but donating money????? That's just really dumb.

[displacedtexan]

12. You've obviously never been vetted by a political party...

for a job or for confidential volunteer work. By the time you finish reading the confidentiality agreement, they've learned to whom you've donated money and your previous party affiliation.

Unless you're a great actor, you won't get past the door; and even if you do, they'll never trust you because of your past Dem loving activities.

[KoKo]

24. Hey...my hubby thinks he lost a job because a co-worker looked up

his voter registration here and confronted him with "I know you're a DEMOCRAT!" The guy was drunk and there had been problems between my husband and him, and shortly after this sales meeting where the drunk was confronting my husband like it was "something he had on him" my hubby was "downsized." So, I know all the pitfalls.

My point was that we've already voted for everything we needed to this year as registered Dems...except in our Primary which I think is the last in the Nation...and Kerry will win that hands down..so doing this will give us a way to help fellow Dems in case Bush wins again...or Kerry is so compromised by what Bush has done that the Nazi Like control makes it unbearabale and we and other Dem friends need to get out or have a network to protect ourselves from whatever comes of Bush's dismantling of Democracy in America.
:shrug: BTW that was four years ago, but was during the Monica hype. He's employed again. But, it was our first encounter with folks "checking up on you" as to how you vote.

[Atman]

13. I'd rather be on the Montgomery Ward mailing list

(Top Secret)

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

14. The other problem with your idea is that it assumes that the "Rangers" and

"Pioneers" get access to information about the workings of the campaign that could be used against shrub to defeat him.

Example, by raising 500K in bundled contributions, you now attend cocktail receptions with top campaign officials where you hear rumors about a staged terrorist attack that actually occurs. You float the info to Seymor Hersh anonymously, whose investigative expose brings down the Bush II administration in a hail of fire and brimstone.

Yes that would be worth scraping together a MILLION in shrubco campaign contributions. Way cheaper than what the actual campaign will cost. But it's not worth trying because I'd assume a very small probability of such an outcome for all the aid and comfort that campaign contribution money would provide to shrubco. Much more likely to ELECT them than the reverse.

The trouble is, while such a scenario is possible, what the Ranger/Pioneer type fat cats typically get is legislative pats on the back for their industry ("I think we'll be having no more environmental regulations on the paper products industry in our second term Mr. Bacon. And we can meet again to discuss tax policy next week at this same restaurant. More caviar?"), or simply the opportunity to dine with the pres and get your pic taken and brag to all your buds. I don't think you can reliably conclude that there is any good gouge to be had simply by hanging out with rich fat cat contributors and becoming one.

[KoKo]

25. Where I live it would be "helpful" with my neighbors. I don't need to

be a spy for Hersch, he's got enough connections of his own. It's on the "local level" I'm talking about.

[struggle4progress]

15. More ideas for you:

Organize national forest clear-cuts to raise funds for the Sierra Club! Buy a Hummer to emphasize America's need for energy self-sufficiency! Play Russian roulette to teach kids gun safety! Become a bank-robber to publicize the crime problem! Set your hair on fire to keep dangerous lunatics at bay!

[CatWoman]

16. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

STOP IT!!!

STOP IT!!!

:D

[Vickers]

20. Omigawd, lmao!!!

:toast:

Perfect! Bravo, bravo!

[Selwynn]

22. BWAHAHAHAAAHA!!

Geez I don't even need to say anything else in this thread now...

[KoKo]

27. ROFL! But, you missed my point. n/t

[struggle4progress]

28. Gosh, I really thought I got your point.

Do I think these scum buckets will stop at nothing? Yes.
Do I think that we may be tottering on the edge of a totalitarian state? Yes.
Would I give those miserable flunkies a penny? Absolutely not.
Do I think we may need a genuine underground soon? Yes.
Is an internet message board a good place to organize it? Absolutely not.

[AlinPA]

23. ???????. I read this post 3 times. n/t

[KoKo]

26. Subtlety and Nuance and thinking "out of the box." hmmmmmm

Lost arts?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

30. You have yet to demonstrate for us what the benefit would be.

You seem to be accusing the rest of us, who think your idea of giving HUGE AMTS of MONEY to OUR ENEMY and OPPRESSOR is an incredibly stupid one, of lacking creativity or flexible thinking. But you haven't even given a vague hypothetical of why it might even be remotely worth it. Give us a scenario, why don't you. You don't have to make it specific to your area.

Bah.

[markses]

33. I suppose

paranoid delusions and completely self-defeating tactics could be considered "thinking outside the box." Of course, there are some boxes that we should think inside of. Sanity and good sense, for instance.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

29. Ranger and Pioneer = insanely large amounts of money (6 figures).

Have you really raised or intend to raise this amount of money for shrub? What "secret spy" information do you hope to obtain to make it "worth" giving them that much scratch?

[markses]

31. This is, bar none

the stupidest idea I have yet heard on DU.

And I read the 9/11 forum regularly...

Bizarre.

[Norquist Nemesis]

35. It's not counteracting...it's simply counterproductive.

Just my opinion, of course, but it sounds like a lot of energy (and money) expended just to be sneaky like that would just make us become our enemy and that which we loathe.