Pope is still trying to throw American elections

[DaveSZ]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/a/2004/06/04/international1058EDT0538.DTL&type=printable


Pope denounces ``self-centered demands'' for abortion and same-sex unions
-
Friday, June 4, 2004


(06-04) 07:58 PDT VATICAN CITY (AP) --

In his latest blunt assessment of U.S. society, Pope John Paul II on Friday denounced the acceptance of abortion and same-sex unions as "self-centered demands" erroneously depicted as human rights.

The pontiff said that "in the face of such erroneous yet pervasive thinking," visiting U.S. bishops should stress to congregations "their special responsibility for evangelizing culture and promoting Christian values in society and public life."

"Rights are at times reduced to self-centered demands: the growth of prostitution and pornography in the name of adult choice, the acceptance of abortion in the name of women's rights, the approval of same sex unions in the name of homosexual rights," he said.

The Catholic Church forbids abortion and considers homosexual activity a sin.

[Vickers]

1. He'd better get his own house in order before sweeping mine up

IOW, mind your own business, cowboy.

[DaveSZ]

2. The only nations

The only nations that agree with the Vatican on global family planning treaties (policy) are the US under the Bush Administration, and some of the Fundamentalist Islamic countries.

To my knowledge all of the highly Catholic Latin American countries disagree with the Bush regime and the Vatican on family planning policy.

That really says something.


http://www.planetwire.org/details/4591


Bush Administration Opposes 40 Latin American Nations in Agreement on Women's Health
For Immediate Release: March 10, 2004

For More Information: Kirsten Sherk, Planned Parenthood Federation of America, [e-mail], 202-973-4864


Sponsor Organization: Planned Parenthood Federation of America

Santiago Conference Poised to Reaffirm 1994 Cairo Consensus


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WASHINGTON, DC-In a repeat of its widely criticized behavior at the 2002 population conference in Bangkok, the Bush administration today stood alone in opposing a declaration of Latin American countries reaffirming the Programme of Action of the 1994 International Conference on Population and Development (also known as the Cairo Consensus).

"Once again, the United States stands alone, turning its back on women, public health and global consensus," said Gloria Feldt, president of Planned Parenthood Federation of America.

Health policymakers from Latin America and the Caribbean gathered today in Santiago, Chile, to reaffirm their commitment to the Cairo Consensus, a landmark international agreement to improve the health, education and economic well-being of all the world's citizens. The final text of the draft declaration is still being negotiated, but it is expected to reaffirm the rights of adolescents to receive medically accurate sexuality education, and support the family "in all its forms," not just as a unit based on a marriage between a man and a woman, two positions opposed by the administration.

At a similar regional conference in Bangkok, Thailand, in December 2002, the administration used threats and intimidation in an attempt to compel other nations to join its opposition to the Cairo Consensus. The effort ultimately failed in Bangkok, and the U.S. position was defeated, 30-1. In Santiago, the vote was 40 nations against the United States' one vote.

"The Bush administration has systematically put its extreme political agenda ahead of the health and rights of women worldwide," Feldt remarked. "Fortunately other nations have seen through this attempt to scale back individual rights, and so do most Americans."

[2Design]

3. since he doesn't like what is going on in iraq....why doesn't he

ban politicians who vote for war and murder thousandss.....when he does that....he will have credibility....that is what all the demonstrations in the street were about....not about gay or abortion...but about war and murder.....

[DaveSZ]

4. Exactly

Which is worse?

A loving gay couple being married/entering into a civil union, or war profiteering and killing thousands of innocents?

[TheFarseer]

7. unfortunately

there are plenty of people in this country that have to think about that one!

[napi21]

5. I don't think he is trying to throw the election at all.

He is try to tell people he believes these activities are WRONG. That's OK. I happen to believe they are wrong too. I'm not telling people how to vote or who to vote for, and neither is the Pope. Last time I checked, Kerry wasn't telling people they had to have an abortion, or be gay, or take birth control pills for that matter. He's saying that the STATE shouldn't forbid people to make decisions regarding their own lifestyle.

The Pope is the head of the Catholic Church, and it is his job to evangalize. To try to convince everyone to believe in what is is saying because it's the right thing to do. That's OK. That's his job.

It is NOT Kerry's job, nor Bush's job to do that! Nor is it the job of the STATE!

Any Christian who believes in life after death also knows they alone will be judged by what they did in their life, and the excuse that my government said it was OK just ain't gonna make it!

What ever happened to separation of church and state?

Please, let religious leaders do their job, and the government do theirs. Never the train to meet!

[Arianrhod]

9. The Pope is heavily attempting to influence US politics

by denouncing Catholic Congressmen (like Kerry) who are pro-choice. The Pope is telling these AMERICANS that they must abandon their consciences if they are to be Catholics. By making such proclamations, he sends a message to all American Catholics that they put themselves in danger of excommunication if they vote for pro-choice politicians.

This is an attempt to undermine the American system by an outside agent.

[TheFarseer]

10. that's exactly how i feel

well put, sir

Although one thing I will say is that the Catholic church DOES hand out voter guides. The last one I got had a straight republican ticket. The one thing that burns me up about the Catholic church is that they try to play politics and I just don't think it's their place. I don't see where I or anyone else has the right to force my religious beliefs on other people.

[napi21]

12. I agree with you. They should not influence politics.

I've been a Catholic all my life. Even went to Catholic schools for 12 years. I have NEVER been given or seen a voter guide in a church. If they are doing that it is wrong! Wonder if those doing that realize the church could lose their tax exempt status by trying to interfere?

I didn't hear the Pope saying anything about not giving communion to Kerry or any officials who support pro choice. As far as I know, that was a few bishops, and they are wrong too.

The same as a few Bishops were wrong in covering for the pedofile priests.

I don't think the Catholic church is going to swing the election. There are some Catholics who already are Shrub supporters, and they won't change. They wouldn't change their mind even if the Pope said don't support Shrub because he is facilitating an unnecessary war and killing people. The Catholics who support Kerry won't change their mind either.

[Sugarbleus]

6. The Pope should mind

His own business! How pathetic it was to watch him struggle to speak when he read a speech in front of shrubya and laura! Too proud to step down? Too proud to let someone else read the speech? Still going onward to visit other countries? I think this is called PRIDE: A CARDINAL SIN!

My sister is making t-shirts saying:
"Keep your rosaries outta my ovaries"

The Vatican is beautiful. The Pope is a dope.

I'm not a catholic. I have no problem with individual catholics-mostly fine people doing good work. I think, however, that the "Institution" of the Catholic Church, the rw fundamentalist protestants, the radical zionists, and the radical islamists are all vile. They've given the world more trouble than help, no matter what they "say". None of these represent true Peace, unfortunately.

[MrPrax]

8. Does Appear to Be An Holy Alliance...

forming to save Bush.

It does seem a bit much to drop all this 'sin' at the US's doorstep...

Hmmm...let's see

In countries that are affluent and educated, the Catholic Church has lost power, lost laity and have very little credible influence.

In countries that are poor and illiterate, the Catholic Church continues to have power, lots of members and much influence in the society and it's politics...

Essentially, the Catholic Church doesn't need a 'genius' marketing guru to figure out that if it promotes policies that create poverty and ignorance, it will continue to thrive...

[kiahzero]

11. To reiterate:

Fuck you, John Paul II.

The last time the Catholic Church got to run things, you fucking BURNED PEOPLE AT THE STAKE. So, really, how about you leave the governing to real governments, and go back to coddling pedophile priests.

You apparently don't even know the history of your own fucking religion, since the Catholic Church made same-sex marriages a sacrament in the early Middle Ages, whereas different-sex marriages were not made a sacrament until at least the thirteenth century.

Stop trying to run the world, you old coot. Be happy you've at least got the Vatican to fuck around with; most religions don't get their own sovereign territory to rule however they please.

[napi21]

13. Nice of you to stoop to the level of the Pat Robertson crowd.

I remember how upset a lot of Christians were when he blamed gays and abortion for 911. How foolish we all thought he was.

You're right that all religions have had a lot of violence in their past, but I thought that was all just that.....in the past.

Your crude words directed toward any religious leader doesn't do anything but alienate the people who believe in them.

I thought we were trying to get people to want to be Dems because we care about PEOPLE and their welfare. It sure doesn't seem like your way is going to accomplish that.

[kiahzero]

14. Bah-pssch

How was my post an attack on all religions, or any given religious leader? It was a very specific attack on the notion that the Catholic Church should have any say in the governing of nations.

Theocracies will never respect fundamental human rights, and will therefore NEVER be valid governments. The Catholic Church is free to say "Same-sex couples should not marry." However, it has no right to attempt to control governments into denying fundamental human rights on the basis that it misinterprets a 2000-year-old document as attacking those human rights as an "abomination." :puke:

Earlier, someone posted a bumper-sticker that said "You cannot be Catholic and pro-abortion." A similar sticker could read "You cannot be a Catholic and pro-same-sex-marriage." Those are both accurate statements. What is also an accurate statement is "You can be Catholic and pro-choice." The difference is that you understand that your religion no longer rules the entire known world (praise whatever divinity you believe in), and that your religion may contain restraints that are not present in other people's faiths.

I thought we were trying to get people to want to be Dems because we care about PEOPLE and their welfare. It sure doesn't seem like your way is going to accomplish that.

I do care about PEOPLE and their WELFARE. What I don't care about is the feelings of a religious leader who seems to think that he has the authority to dictate to legitimate governments.