Are You Proud Of Your Fellow DUERS Who Are Pissing On Reagan's Grave?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Poll question: Are You Proud Of Your Fellow DUERS Who Are Pissing On Reagan's Grave?

I opposed Reagan in 1976, 1980, and 1984. I found his policies to be diametrically opposed to just about every thing I believed in.. I remember saying in my Poli Sci class how yahoos had put him in office...

But I take no pleasure in his passing and won't use his passing to spew venom towards him...


The people on this board who are using his passing to spew venom bring us no honor...

One day our heroes will pass... Ted Kennedy, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and the right wing hate peddlers will have a field day...

I believe we are better..

The questions is do the posters who are spewing this venom bring honor to us?

[WilliamPitt]

1. Define 'spew venom'

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. K

"Fuck the old bastard"

"I'll piss on his grave"

For starters...


Outside of Hitler and Stalin I can think of very few leaders whose graves I'd piss on...


edited for typos lol@me...

[Wonk]

How does one "pass on a grave"?

:shrug:

I'd think that was a typo except you spelled it the same way twice...

[WillyT]

131. On The Left, But Please Use Your Blinker, K ???

:silly:

[Zynx]

11. I could piss on Nixon's grave and I don't think Reagan was much better.

[RapidCreek]

112. why would you piss on Hitler or Stalins grave?

I'd love to hear your rational since you seem so forgiving of other theiving murderous leaders. What you only piss on the graves of people who commit genocide on White folk?

RC

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

37. Different strokes for different folks, I guess...

There's a difference between analysis of policies and actions (Reagan did X and it was bad for Y, which is how I took your earlier piece) and "Reagan is a bunghole. I poop on him forever!"

The former is useful, intelligent discussion. The latter is just lame, in so many ways that I'm tired of repeating. I'd like to see less of the latter and more of the former.

[genius]

182. 250 new people on DU since Reagan kicked the bucket.

That explains the vote.

[wndycty]

2. No. . .

. . .I am one of Reagan's biggest detractors, however when we celebrate this man's death we do OURSELVES a big diservice. As my father has always said, "Do not be as bad as everyone else, be better!"

[liberalhistorian]

55. Amen!

I could not, and cannot, stand Reagan, I threw a party when his miserable presidency was finally over, I think he did more damage to this country than can ever be calculated, and I'm already, only a few hours in, sick to fucking death of the media adoration and worship of St. Ronnie of Raygoon, and the media saturation. I'm ready to turn off my TV and radio and not even look at newspapers for the next week or so. I'm surprised the Bushistas haven't declared a National Day of Mourning in which we are all required to sit in sackcloth and ashes, and people are to report those who aren't doing it. And obviously, I'd be lying if I said I had any kind of nostalgia at all for the man or his miserable, worthless damaging presidency.

But the man was a fellow human being who suffered a long, slow, drawn-out, death from a terrible disease, a painful decline for himself and his family, the kind of death I wouldn't wish on anyone, and we do not at all bring honor on ourselves by any kind of rejoicing or pissing on his grave whatsoever. Now, I know that when Clinton and Kennedy, et al., die, the RW will not be so kind and will probably not be able to restrain their glee and mean-spiritedness. But that doesn't mean that we have to do the same.

[DFLer4edu]

130. I like the sound of you and your father!

[Zynx]

4. Why is someone's death such a sacred thing?

If I had been alive at the time Stalin or Hitler died, should I have been all teary eyed and trying to find praise for them? Now, those are extreme examples, but I think it proves my point.

[kiahzero]

9. Not really

No one is saying you should have respected the mourning families of Hitler or Stalin... but Reagan pales in comparison to those two.

So, no, it really doesn't prove your point.

[Zynx]

13. How about Nixon? That's a good comparison.

[kiahzero]

18. And I would say that you should be respectful

It's not for the benefit of the person in question, it's for the benefit of the family members. The person has to be particuarily bad to justify the kind of joy coming out of some DUers; I don't think the case can be made that Reagan qualifies.

[Zynx]

27. Reagan killed thousands in Central America through his actions.

I will never forgive him for that. There was no excuse to back Efrain Rios Montt and the rest of those thugs.

[kiahzero]

98. No one's asking you to

How about just a little compassion for his family, who didn't back the Contras or the Iranians or anyone else. They just lost a husband, a father, etc.

On Edit: Corrected a brain fart. Glad I caught that one.

[RapidCreek]

54. No not really

Reagan affected my family much more directly and certainly more severly than either Hitler or Stalin ever did.

If anything it's a rather innocous comparison.

RC

[rachael7]

123. Regan was every bit as bad as Hitler

I think he was just as bad as Hitler. As a matter of record, he and Hitler and the rest of the neo-cons all share the same economic policy. Further, he sold out his beliefs (I believe he was at heart much more of a liberal) to bolster his political career. And, though he didn't manage to cause as many deaths as Hitler, he certainly caused a lot. His meddling in the Iran/Iraq war and the Afghan war are still being felt today. The 15000+ Iraqis that have died in the present invasion are the direct result of the policies that he put in place. That's just this war. I've heard experts claim that between the first war, the sanctions, and this war, that we've killed hundreds of thousands of people there. We destroyed a civilized country. And that's just one of the many he and his followers have decimated. Granada, Panama, Haiti... the list goes on and on.

So, while I agree that calling him the names he so rightly deserves does nothing to help our cause and may in fact hurt us by making us look vicious, I will NOT degrade myself or the rest of the people of the world by pretending to honor him just because he's dead. Are people so afraid of death that we automatically have to like someone just because they are dead? Are his crimes against humanity and sins against the god he claimed to believe in somehow lessened now that he's dead?

May he rot in hell, where he belongs.

[Raskolnik]

138. You don't know what you're talking about.

If you think that Reagan and Hitler belong in the same classification of "bad", then you need to pick up a history book and start reading.

Of course you didn't like Reagan's politics, no one with any sense did. But when you do the "he's as bad as Hitler!" garbage, you make us all look ignorant.

[Forkboy]

144. enough with the "you make us all look bad" crap already

you're making us look bad. :silly:

[Raskolnik]

145. Then don't do it.

If you don't want the "you make us all look bad crap" then don't make us all look bad. Its really pretty simple.

Do you think that the way people are acting here right now helps us advance our ideals in any way? I don't.

[Forkboy]

147. I can only make myself look bad

if others associate you with my words it's because they are simpletons who can't understand that people have different reactions to things and dont march in lock step.

I dont concern myself with simpleton's and I'm sorry that you are doing so.But that's your choice.

[Raskolnik]

150. Not a lot to ask.

That's bullshit and you know it. When a conservative Republican says something moronic, is our first reaction, "well he probably doesn't speak for all of us". Hell no. We hold groups responsible for what their members say; what you say about this reflects on me whether I like it or not. And I don't.

I'm not saying we all have to march in lock-step. Disagreements are healthy and passions should run high from time to time. I just ask that people think about what they say, and if in doubt, don't be hateful.

[Forkboy]

151. I'm sorry you dont like it

but I'll be how I want.

[Spiderm0n]

172. some people do like to revel in their ignorance

[Forkboy]

187. I know

I hate FreeRepublic too.

[david_vincent]

38. I tend toward the same attitude

It's very important to be dignified and honor someone who has at least tried to contribute something, but the sad fact is that there are some people who are so twisted that there's no reason to feel sad or somber when they die. Note that I'm NOT saying this applies to Reagan! I'm just saying that, hey, when someone like Pol Pot dies, it's stupid to pretend to show anything but relief mixed with happiness. And I think it's naive to think that this could or should apply only to people in distant lands.
I remember reading an article once that was a first person account of "where were you?" reminiscences of the JFK assassination. One guy grew up in Louisiana and said that people were happy and saying "it's about time someone nailed that bastard" and things like that... are we really supposed to feel sad that someone who showed utter contempt for the institutions of American democracy and the Constitution itself has died? I'm indifferent myself.

[Raenelle]

5. Before we start eating our own young, let's think how'll they'll be

when Carter or Clinton die.

[DarkPhenyx]

19. So? WE can assume they'll act like idiots.

How does that justify our acting just like them?

change a few words and you get "they are doing the same thing to our people when they get hold of them." Oh how quickly we can become that which we hate.

[barbaraann]

20. Every single time Dems have tried to behave decently

the Republicans have just spit on us. Lots of Dems in the Senate tried working with Bush and look how they got treated. No matter how we act, the Republicans will find some way to attack us. Heck, if we act respectful they will probably say it was phony or not respectful enough or god knows what.

They can twist ANYTHING and they do.

[scarletwoman]

100. The Dems weren't "behaving decently", they were CAVING

and not standing up for their (supposed) principles. There's a big difference between behaving decently -- which is a form of behaving honorably -- and making compromises with people who are up to no good -- that's DIShonorable.

sw

[truebrit71]

104. Someone ELSE who gets it!!

Remember the outrage from the bilious puff-adders in the media about Senator Wellstone's funeral? Think that any of those whores will say so much as 'boo' when they politicize Ray-gun's funeral?

Didn't think so.

Apologists make me puke....

[barbaraann]

119. Hmmm....I wonder if Michael Reagan will be making a speech

at his father's funeral. If it's anything like his radio show, it will be a vicious attack on liberals.

[ElectroPrincess]

176. You got that right ...

Here here ... I like your perspective. Please wake-up fellow democrats, the republicans are playing dirty and playing for keeps. There's no room for apologists nor "can't we all just get along folks." My suggestion: if this political seasion for the Democratic Rallies is to nasty and distasteful for "nice nice" then I respectfully request you get out of our way. I'm a strong local democratic party member, military veteran for John F. Kerry. We must get focused and dedicate ourselves like there's no tommorw if he does not get elected. If Bush serves another term, there may be no tomorrow for our grand children. My suggested motto for those of us actively participating in the "Kerry for President" campaign is the old adage: Lead, follow or get out of the way. ;)

[barbaraann]

117. Yeah, even when the Dems cave they get spit on.

But at least then you don't get anthrax.

[jmowreader]

26. They will celebrate Carter and Clinton's deaths

whether we mourn beside his grave, dance on his grave or piss on his headstone.

Fuck it, man, I'm pissing on his grave right now. And it feels pretty fucking good!

[salin]

68. No offense

but that kind of reasoning is not far from the... abu ghraib isn't bad because Saddam was worse.

I am not saying not to ever speak ill of Reagan - just give it a rest for a couple of days out of respect to the family (and frankly - they have been through alot and are probably a whole lot more aware of the challenges of those who are not the elite than they did while Ronnie reigned supreme) - and out of recognition (as much as it pains me) that a large part of my fellow citizens really responded to the guy. I can hold my words back, or at least make my criticisms be worded in a way that isn't terribly invectivek, for a couple of days.

It is called common decency. And when I get to the point that I no longer hold myself to that level of behavior... because the other guys are worse (again a line of logic not far from what we hear currently from the GOP per the Iraqi torture scandal)... then those assholes really have won - as they have moved me to the point of losing my own dignity.

[Moloch]

156. Who cares how THEY act

Are you saying we're no better than the freepers or the idiots on lucianne.com?

[NNadir]

6. If you can't thrill at the passing of evil, what can you thrill at.

Reagan went to Bitburg to place flowers on the graves of Nazi SS troops. I'll be damned if I'll repeat the act.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Chalk That Up To Ignorance And Stubborness

I'm not convinced he was evil...

[NNadir]

31. Probably because you never lived in Nicaragua or Chile or El Salvador

[Michael Costello]

109. What do the survivors of El Mozote think?

I suppose a white upper middle class American liberal can stop and pause about if Reagan was bad or misguided. I think the victims of the South African apartheid regime he supported, the survivors of the village massacres in El Salvador, the Mexican farmworkers whom he trampled on in his super-sycophantic appeasement of grape growers in California, the black youth he condemned in urban slums and so forth don't have as much of that luxury. In my mind, Reagan was a bigwig in the most evil movement that exists on the earth today.

[Senior citizen]

47. A U.S. Prez who pays equal respect to fallen allies & Nazis

is just ignorant? Never heard of WWII or just forgot it?

[Djinn]

189. I can point you in the direction

of South American victims of torture who'd seriously disagree with you.

No Reagan didn't rape kids, attach electrodes to genitals, set dogs on babies, but then again we have no proof that Hitler ever personally lifted a finger against any victims of the Nazi Party either.

[Misinformed01]

7. Jesus H. Christ on rollerblades...

You want warm fuzzies about Reagan on a website called "DEMOCRATICUNDERGROUND.COM?"

Get a freaking grip, dude.

[DarkPhenyx]

14. No...

but it would be nice if some of us weren't acting like assinine giggling children about it. They sound like Freepers.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. Well

I don't expect fuzzies I expect respect at the passing of just about anybody....

And I have a grip

<kisses>

Brian

[Misinformed01]

21. Tell ya what; I haven't said anything snotty about Reagan.

However, watch out the day Richard Mellon-Scaife dies. I hate that evil son of a bitch worse than anyone in the US, and it will give me nothing but a warm fuzzy feeling to see that bastard's hearse roll down the streets of Chicago.

[billbuckhead]

48. I'll drink to Scaifes demise

Maybe Dick Scaife and Dick Cheney will have a hunting accident

[Dropkick]

183. THAT would be reason to cheer!!

:toast:

[LibertyorDeath]

16. Cheers

[LuminousX]

23. How about dignified silence?

No reason to have warm fuzzies, but he had long ago ceased being a threat to our causes. He had become just an ill old man. Can't we treat him like we would any ill old man who has passed away?

[Misinformed01]

35. No. Do you not understand what Joseph Campbell meant by

the "Power of Myth?"

Wake up...that "Welfare Queens driving Cadillacs" shit is going to haunt Americans for decades to come.

Homeless, mentally ill people are sleeping out on the streets tonight.

As my husband said, "Like Pinochet, I don't forgive people just because they get old."

Reagan left a bitter legacy...and if you don't want to hear about it, I would get off DU tonight. Wait until people get drunk...it's going to get really bad. It was kind of DU's misfortune that the man died on a Saturday.

[salin]

76. *lol*

isn't that the truth (about Saturday...)

[Zomby Woof]

108. I was saying the same thing earlier...

Reagan, ever the actor, had a sense of timing. Lucky for us he died on a Saturday so we could have unfettered posting time...

Hey Stephanie and Salin, good to see you both this evening.

[sundog]

66. Dignified silence is a good concept...

When two teams are on the field & a guy goes down, you don't see the opposing team jumping up & down when he's carried off on the stretcher...

How did JK react?

We have to think in terms of collective strategy. Our actions are reflective of Dems as a whole.

Love him or hate him -- Remember two wrongs don't make a right. Our reactions will be judged harshly by the opposition. Think in terms of the bigger picture.

If the freepers want to jump up & down when one of our heroes goes down, let them. I'd like to take the high road...

[Misinformed01]

71. "Dignified Silence" on a public political internet forum

I was going to respond to this, but, that damned unicorn is after the cat again, and I need to go pop him with a rolled up newspaper.

[Zomby Woof]

110. FUCK

:D That was funnier than a skirt on a skinhead.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. No warm fuzzies, Steph...I was disgusted by the Repubs' treatment

of Wellstone...because it just demonstrated what knuckledraggers they were...so when I see it en vogue with liberals, it makes me cringe a bit. There was nothing to love, for me, about Reagan's policies because they were built upon conceptualizing the poor (ala welfare queens) and dehumanizing opponents via Freedom fighters versus those generic Sandanistas (aka poor)...sooo...when I see similar concepts at play on my own side...it gets me REAL FUCKING nervous.

[Misinformed01]

41. And that is why I haven't written anything until now

I completely understand what you are saying...but, to make comments like "he was a decent man..." and worse...."why are people being mean about him," were just too much for me to read.

He was a great actor...no doubt about it. But his policies will live on to hurt people for a very long time.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

50. Sure they will and everyone was holding back due to him being infirm

Remember all the truth that came out after Nixon finally left us? I'd rather demonstrate class now in exchange for that information which we can demand now be forthcoming...I don't have to do a victory dance on his grave to get there.

[Misinformed01]

59. I respectfully disagree with you on this one. Jr.Bush made DAMN

sure that the truth about what went on during the Reagan years will NOT come out at the very least while the key players (Poppy) are still alive.

We are not going to have a clue in hell what went on in those last 6 criminal years.

As far as the "truth" about Nixon is concerned....who's Deepthroat? We still don't know. What else are we missing?

[salin]

79. Question about that... that was by Executive Order

can't that be undone by act of Congress, or by a new Executive Order? Or is there something magic about jr. All the more reason to take back congress and the WH.

[Misinformed01]

84. Nothing is permanent, but it's going to be a bit like

archeologists trying to learn something about a tomb, after the raiders have already been there.

Those documents are being sanatized as we speak.

Those missing 18 minutes of Nixons aren't going to be anything compared to what's going to be missing from Reagan's papers.

Remember the silence of the Reagan family when that executive order was being passed; if they were so proud of him, why did they want to keep his legacy a secret?

[salin]

85. They are not "more sealed" then they have been for years

any sanitization - I am sure has been going on for years.

[Selwynn]

53. Very well stated.

It makes me uncomfortable too, but the thirteen threads of moralizing about it have kind of gotten on my nerves as well.

[MarkTwain]

51. Very Well Said....

... ditto, so to speak.

[DarkPhenyx]

10. Yet another voice of wisdom and integrity...

...speaking out to uphold good Liberal values and views. We need more like you.

[barbaraann]

12. To me his death is a non-event.

For all practical purposes he died a long time ago, when he became incapacitated due to Alzheimer's. He hasn't been able to help the Republican Party for years and wasn't causing any trouble.

[azmesa207]

33. His death was a non event

He died in the last four years of his presidency he was a bumbling fool than already he was as bad or worst than the present president so no I wont morn his passing

[Nite Owl]

17. No one has to spew venom

he was what he was. Dying doesn't make him any better a President. Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy will be 'spewed' upon by the right wing nutso's when they pass but they sincerely tried to do good in this world. They weren't haters and they won't deserve it.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. You know nothing about me

[Forkboy]

136. He didn't say anything about you

just your poll.

Guilty conscience? :evilgrin:

[Ohio Dem]

24. Reagan was one of the worst Presidents we've ever had.

I am not, however, "glad" he's dead. I'm not mourning his death, and I'm not praising his life.

You don't have to be a fan of someone to not revel in his death.

JMO

[number6]

25. no, but I understand it ....save your energy for removing the

toxic bu$h, Reagan was already more or less dead ...

[jus_the_facts]

28. they had a field day against us when Paul Wellstone died......

....said we POLITICIZED his death to our benefit somehow...their HYPOCRACY began the second Raygun's death was announced...just stay tuned to FAUX!

I'LL SAVE MY SYMPATHY FOR THE PEOPLE AND FAMILIES DESTROYED BY AIDS....which these people HAD and still HAVE NONE! :evilfrown:

[Bluebear]

32. Indeed.

nt

[polar]

29. I don't think it matters how we act...

Every liberal everywhere could not say a bad thing about Reagan and they would still have a celebration when Carter, Clinton, etc die. Sorry but I don't anything we do or say could prevent conservatives from shooting off fireworks when one of "ours" dies.

[Lars39]

57. You're probably right, polar.

Welcome to DU! :toast:

[kiahzero]

101. If we want to point out how inappropriate it was

we can't exactly go about doing the same exact damn thing now, can we?

[linazelle]

36. Why not let people have their opinions? Whatever they may be

That's liberlism--like it or not. Yes "they" will oppose Clinton and Carter's deaths, and nothing we do here today or in the next week of funeralizing Regan will change that inevitability.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. It's Not A Matter Of Opinion.. It's Showing Reverence At Thre

Passing of A Human Being...


My opinion is Ronald Reagan and I disagreed about just everything..


HATE IS NOT AN OPINION....

[rachael7]

124. Reverence?

Show reverence for a man who showed nothing but contept and reckless disgregard for his fellow human beings?

No thank you.

[Forkboy]

137. Well duh

HATE IS NOT AN OPINION....

Niether is love,or fear,or any other emotion :eyes:

[Career Prole]

39. Eeeeeeenough about Reagan, already!

I.....don't.....care! He's dead! So what? BFD and whoop-di-doo!
Old men die all the time.
Much younger people are dying every day who deserve our attention so much more than this one old man!

[smirkymonkey]

142. Here, here!

I agree with you completely!!

[ikojo]

40. At least they are not being hypocritical. They loathed him

in life and to speak of him as a compassionate human being now that he is dead is to lie.

What a peculiar thing. If Bush died tomorrow would people on DU say the same types of things? Without Reagan there would have been no 41 and most definitely no 43 (because there would not have been certain Supreme Court Justices appointments).

There is a direct connection from Reagan to Bush II. His death does not negate that. He is the patron saint of the right-wing.

There is nothing we on DU can do to make the freepers like us. What we can do is stand our ground. To them even a DLC Democrat is one Dem too many.

[donhakman]

60. To be concise It is my opinion that

this poll was probably made without thinking that it can only serve to divide and demonize a segment of DU'ers.

If one wants to apologize for other people's behavior fine.

Be assured that Limbaugh will use any numerical evidence of such a poll for nefarious purposes.

[kiahzero]

102. Bullshit

Blame the morons who are gleefully celebrating the death of another for any negative feedback that comes of it, not those who have been pointing out how disgusting it is.

[Cobalt Violet]

42. Some people have been hurt by Reagan's presidency

And they have the right to feel the way they do today. Piss on his grave as you say. The poor have never really recovered from his reaganomics and those of us who grew up hurt by his crap are glad to see him go.

[Armstead]

43. You should respect his passing for yourselves

The right wing will be all over this. But that's almost beside the point.

More important, you all ought to behave with restraint for your own sake. There are some things that transcend politics, and a person's death after a horrible illness is one of them.

[rachael7]

125. Didn't transcend for him.

Funny that you think his death should transcend politics. The deaths of the untold thousands killed in the name of making him and his buddies rich didn't seem to warrant the same trascendence. His death deserves no more respect than he gave to the deaths of 1000's in his treasonous escapades.

[Q]

44. Are 'we' somehow joined at the hips?

- If you don't like what people are saying about Reagan...don't READ their friggin threads. It's really THAT simple.

- What is it with these threads that try to join us all together in one big collective brain fart? We are individuals and all have different OPINIONS. So PLEASE stop GUILT BY ASSOCIATION bullshit and allow people to express their opinions without hall monitors trying to make them feel GUILTY.

- This has nothing to do with PRIDE. It's all about freedom of speech and the refusal to be intimidated by worshippers of St. Reagan.

[Indiana_Dem]

45. I think he is now better off than suffering in a shell of a body

without a mind. Yes, I'm sad that he passed away and many are mourning him. However, I think his persona has been a little over-magnified. He caused a lot of painful economic times for me personally growing up and the effects of he and his administration's policies are still felt today in society.

Don't worry. The right will have a heyday when Clinton passes on. Some of those here on DU are only projecting back what they feel has been dealt to them. Doesn't make it right but it's going to happen. Everything became more polarized when Reagan took office. It all started then. Maybe it wasn't all him but he was their leader so I'm not surprised when Democrats give a somewhat cold condolence to his passing.

To me, it's more humane-like thinking to wish for him to pass on than to linger the way he probably has been for a great while. I wish no human the tragedy of being plagued with Alzheimer's...not even my worst enemy.

[Selwynn]

49. avoid the site until BOTH the pissing and the moralizing are done

It's totally true that I don't think we should act like freepers just because we don't like someone. I was one of the ones that complained about the level of irrational unproductive crap that was spewn on every other thread back when Rush was in the headlines. You know what it did to help make DU a more sophisticated place? Nothing.

What's more, now the moralizing of some gets on my nerves every bit as much as the bad taste comments of others. I mean its so pathetically predictable. Whenever misfortune strikes an opponent, you have the venom crowd, gloating in their suffering. Then you have the moralist crowd not only claiming to show compassion, but also attacking everyone else and attempting to shame them into not being part of the venom crowd. Then you have the more rational voices in the middle - the wiser of whom simply ignore the whole fucking internal soap opera until eventually the whole thing dies down.

My advice: You have a hide button. You have an ignore button. If you must, use em.

[Wonk]

56. I've been thinking the same thing. I'm going to watch the hockey game.

See y'all later. Play nice, now O8)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. Re Rush

I was one of those reveling in Rush's problems and still am but one's death is a different story...

[Susang]

82. So a Republican's drug abuse is okay to gloat about....

But a Republican's death is not? Interesting.

So how did you feel when other DUers posted threads telling you how horrible you were for gloating about Rush's drug problems? And how can you have the nerve to post a thread like this when you still say you revel in Rush's illness? Don't you find it the least bit hypocritical?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

89. No

There's a difference in schadenfreude which is taking glee in the problems of others and reveling in the death of a human being...

Unlike fundamentalist Christians I don't think all sins are the same....

I'm happy Rush is having legal problems... I'm not happy he's battling an addiction....

[Susang]

114. Let's re-visit the definition of schadenfreude, shall we?

Schadenfreude is a German expression (from Schaden: damage, harm; and Freude: joy) meaning pleasure taken from someone else's misfortune or shameful joy. The equivalent Latinate English word is epicaricacy, although the German term is far more widely used.

Schadenfreude was seen as a sin by German theologians, and philosophers such as Schopenhauer, unless the joy was felt in response to a just punishment by God or the State. It might now be similar to the "tall poppy syndrome", where people are pleased when someone with some status, celebrity or pretence in society is brought down. Perhaps true Schadenfreude is the feeling of pleasure at the feeling of guilt at having a secret joy in someone's misfortune.

In Sweden, a common saying is: The Schadenfreude is the only true joy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude

schadenfreude \SHAHD-n-froy-duh\, noun:
A malicious satisfaction in the misfortunes of others.

http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2000/05/10.html

So, as you can see, Reagan's death can easily fit under the general definition of schadenfreude. How your "glee" over a living Rush's legal troubles is different or morally superior to those DUers who are are gleeful about Reagan's death is quite debatable. Glass houses are tricky, aren't they?

[rachael7]

126. It was just punishment

As you yourself pointed out, its not schadenfreude if we take joy in just punishment by god or state. Now I'm not a believer in higher beings myself, but that Reagan bastard was the one that figured out how to capitalize on the religious right to gain political power. So I find it kind of appropriate that his god should choose to punish him with a long death. I shall rejoice. And I am not ashamed. Here's to the passing of a right prick!

Cheers

[Susang]

134. Hi Rachael

Welcome to DU! Tough night to be new. Good luck to you! :-)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

164. No...That's A False Dichotomy...

For instance a fool cuts me off on on the highway....


And this has happened more than once...


I see his car overturned and there are firetrucks and ambulances I'm not happy...


And this has happened more than once....


I see he got stopped by the cops...

I'm laughing my ass off...

It seems different to me...

If they put Rush in a minimum security hooskow I'd laugh my ass off

If he bought the farm I don't think it would be funny...

[stevedeshazer]

52. No

It makes us look bad, period.

[Angelus]

61. Oh...another one of these fucking "boo hoo" threads.

Get over it. We can hate on REagan if we want. He was an evil man who screwed us all over tenfold.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

64. Hate

Hate is corrosive... It destroys the container long before it destroys the object of it


Peace


Brian

[Angelus]

72. Well...we all have good reasons to hate that...

worthless son of a bitch.

Even you should know this.

[hippywife]

188. Thank you, Brian.

That's a perfect sentiment.

No one here is being an apologist for Reagan and his destructive policies. Anyone who thinks that is setting up a strawman.

You don't have to be an apologist or want to deify the man to have some sense regarding the passing of a fellow human being.

It is shameful that those who carry the avatars of Kucinich and Gandhi would paticipate in such vitriolic behaviour such as calling for pissing on someone's grave. They know little of the men they espouse when they do so.

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" ~ Gandhi

Reconsiliation has to begin somewhere. When I see freepers talking about Civil War II or hangings on the WH lawn, it isn't half as scary as seeing people here act with the same kind of blind hatred.

No one says not to be strong or to cave. They only ask that people act like human beings at the passing of another no matter who they are. The worst of men who conduct the most terrible of deeds are diseased with the illness of hatred. Hatred only begets more hatred.

We will never have peace anywhere if hatred from any quarter is allowed to win.

[AlFrankenFan]

62. No, and I agree

We can be better.

[Padraig18]

63. No.

I am still shocked at some of the posts I've read today.

:puke:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

70. I So Disliked Reagan's Tenure

but I ain't happy that he's dead....

[Djinn]

190. it's not about "happiness" at his death

it's about refusing to buy into the crap that a person MUST be respected after their deaths just because they've died, and that that "respect" must take the form of refusing to mention what revolting excuses for human being they were.

How much respect was the old git giving the families of AIDS victims when he said:

"Maybe the Lord brought down this plague ".

Live by the sword, die by the sword, Live like a bigoted, rich, brutal bastard then don't expect people not to mention it when you die.

If there wasn't a enormous load of crap being peddled now and history wasn't being re-written then we wouldn't feel the need to point out what this revolting excuse for a human beings legacy actually was - but it is and we do.

[Piperay]

65. No but

I am not going to condemn them for it either because it takes alot of will power to refrain from it after the horrible way the 'other side' has treated Democrats for the last 20 + years.

I'm not going to join in on the spewing but I disliked Raygun and the repukes too to put out the energy stopping others from venting their true feelings. :shrug:

[bushgottago]

67. When Clinton Dies ....

The right wingers will piss on his grave.

[sundog]

69. So does that mean we are supposed to act like chimps too?

--

[liberalhistorian]

73. I remember when a homeless WWII veteran

froze to death just a couple of blocks away from one of St. Ronnie of Raygoon's megabucks inauguration balls in 1984, after one of his interminable, endless platitudes about gratitude to veterans, blahblahblahblah, after cutting the VA budget yet again; he never spent ONE single fucking day in a uniform, either.

I remember when he joked about nuking Russia in five minutes, totally clueless to how the Russians would take it and to how tasteless and crass it was to joke about something like that.

I remember how his policies in Central America caused the murders and deaths of thousands upon thousands, and how we've never been forgiven for that by those countries.

And I especially remember his heartless, thoughtless, cavalier, callous disregard for AIDS in the beginning of the epidemic, when such total neglect and indifference caused God alone knows how many deaths, and his underfunding of prevention and treatment efforts caused God knows how much damage. And I remember how his people could barely restrain their mean-spirited glee at the whole thing, they just thought it was the funniest fucking thing in the world and their treatment of Mary Fisher, a heterosexual woman who got AIDS from her husband, who spoke at the Republican convention asking for compassion and treatment for AIDS victims no matter who they were or how they got the disease, not to mention their treatment of babies, young children, and others who weren't gay who got the disease, was abominable and very un-Christian.

For these reasons and far too many more to enumerate here, I do not join in the national mourning for St. Ronnie of Raygoon, and I'm already sick of the weeping and wailing and moaning and groaning and howling and crying and and gnashing of teeth and the orgy grief fest of the repukes, particularly Peggy Noonan, Bill Bennett and their ilk. But I do NOT believe in pissing on his grave, either, and I don't think saying things like "glad the old fucker's gone", "hope the old bastards in hell where he belongs", etc., is right, either, and it brings no honor on us.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

74. Augusto Pinochet is just a "poor sick old man" too.

Actually, I'm indifferent to one of the worst president's this nation, and the world, has ever had to endure. He caused the death's of thousands of innocents who were far better than he. But, he has long been out of the power he so wrongfully wielded.

So, the SOB can rest in peace..or not.

[moondust]

75. I believe in freedom of expression.

Much worse things have been done to much better people. This, too, shall pass.

[Carolina]

77. hell fuckin yes

I am so sick and tired of being nice.

While we've been so nice, the wingers -- starting with Nixon and expanding horribly under Reagan -- have been winning and wreaking havoc. We are where we are today because of their legacies. I do not mourn Reagan's death one bit.

Sometimes the best thing an unhappy Democrat has to hold on to is being a bitch ... Thank you, Delores Claiborne and now for my third martini!

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

78. Yes..im very proud of DUs who are not buyin to the "Great Reagan" BS.

I find this board refreshing in that there is a lack of all this false piety.

[Padraig18]

80. Crude, crass and disgusting does not equal 'lack of all this false piety.'

:eyes:

[ScreamingMeemie]

90. Well said Padraig!

:hi:

[Padraig18]

93. Thank you, love!

:hi:

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

94. crude and crass describne the political forces symbolized by Reagan

he was a poltical figure with very little humanity, IMO.

So I dont have any problem with the sentiments expressed here.

[salin]

81. Not an either/or, fortunately

some of us asking for a little (temporary) decorum - have not bought the myth - have regularly spoken out against the myth and will continue to do so.

[Indiana_Dem]

83. And another thing....

I haven't heard one Republican give honor to us and "ours", have you? Why should we care about honor when none is given to us?

No I won't p*** on his grave or have a party but I will sure ignore all the news for awhile when it switches to this topic.

Silence and condolence to and for the family is the best medicine.

[PurityOfEssence]

86. This is our HOME, dammit; this is where we are among friends

We are pursued and marginalized in society at large, and many of us hold our tongues out of respect in "polite" society. This is PRECISELY the place for us to vent our frustration.

Many will go over the top, so don't pay attention. Many of us will engage in many other levels of rancor. If you haven't a scrap of extreme dislike for anyone, then I still don't think you're a better human than I: some people deserve dislike, and that, too, holds society together. If we never excoriate the skunks, it doesn't matter how much we praise the virtuous.

Sure, some show their true feathers. Some go over the top.

This man was a rat. Not of Bushian or Nixonian proportions, certainly, but he was a rat nonetheless.

[BeFree]

105. This is the time

and this is the place. Let 'er rip!! I'm enjoying the rips!

RR was the worst. Hands down, he trumps Nixon. Given another 4 years *, may be his match.

Personally, I will refrain from blasting away at RR, but those who desire to blast, this is the time and place.

Oh yeah, by the way some are asking for respect for the family you'd think the family is reading DU tonight. Yeah, right.

Let 'er rip!!

[peterh]

128. Touché….

If there’s one thing that I hold dearly about liberals…it’s free thought. We don’t need the limpballs, the savages and the hindes to tell us how to think and to judge….we can do that on our own……I don’t feel we are elite, but we are intellectual and thus can speak our mind….we may differ on the path, but the goal is common….I’m no longer a democrat, but my principles are still liberal…..when a spade is a spade…..you call it a spade….

[imax2268]

87. I didn't like

the guy anymore than the next person...but I for one will not celebrate and jump up and down because the man has died...he may have not been a favorite but he was still a human being and he deserves some respect in his passing...

[erpowers]

88. Some Democrats Fail to Realize

There are some Democrats who are trying to convince others not to speak poorly of Ronald Reagan or celebrate his death. They say that we should not do this because some of our heros will die someday. They ask khow the Democrats who are celebration Reagan's Death would feel if Freepers did this to Clinton, Carter, Kennedy, or any other Democratic hero that dies. It seems that the Democrats that try to convince others not to celebrate Reagans death don't realize the Freepers will celebrate the deaths of our heros even if we mourn their heros. In addiion, they will say even worst things and not apologize for them.

Some of those who would tell other not to celebrate the death of Reagan should read Alan Colmes book "Red, White, and Liberal." He quoted a person who celebrated the death of Paul Wellstone. This person called Wellstone a communist and said he was in hell now. The person also critized Wellstone's religion. When Clinton dies you will see Republicans setting off fireworks as if it were the 4th of July and they will not apologize

[DemocratSinceBirth]

92. Well

I don't remember one prominent Republican celebrating Paul Wellstone's passing ....


And I don't think we have to emulate the simian behavior of the Freepers...

[lapauvre]

91. As Usual (blush) I wrote too long a response

and it got lost.

I will try it on articles or something. Or, as some people have suggested, writing it in Word and copying and pasting. I don't know how to do it.

But I am really sorry it is lost. It was really good.

Oh, well.

[charlie]

97. On a PC?

Click inside the textbox, hit Ctrl-A to highlight everything. Then hit Ctrl-C to copy it all to clipboard memory. Then go ahead and post. If your post gets hosed, reopen a reply window, click in the textbox, and hit Ctrl-V to paste what you've just saved.

[NV1962]

95. No: I'm proud of DUers taking a #2 on him...

I call it the triumph of moral clarity over a misguided sense of decorum.

I'm not apologizing for my convictions and views, and I'll present them whenever and however I see fit.

Screw PC.

[indigobusiness]

96. latebloomer said Reagan was a meat puppet

latebloomer (1000+ posts) Sat Jun-05-04 08:06 PM
Original message
Reagan was an amiable meat puppet


He was Bush's predecessor in many ways, not least of which was that he was not the president, he just played one on TV. He was a second-rate actor who finally found the role of a lifetime. The masses bought his kindly, down-home, twinkly-eyed persona even as his strings were pulled by a cabal of fascist traitors who sought to dominate the world by any means necessary and to gut the social progress of the previous forty years-- a process which the Shrubbery is hell-bent on completing

[ulysses]

99. neither proud nor ashamed.

Reagan was a bastard, and it's no great surprise that people would respond to his death by wanting to piss on his grave. I don't worry about it.

I'm just looking forward to the whole hoohaa being over. The man's damage has long since been done. If we want to counter all the glorification, we could do worse than detailing American crimes in Central America in the 80s.

[BeFree]

103. If ever i get to california i will

piss on his grave. Today all we can do is exercise our free speech, thank you.

[Crowdance]

106. Couldja' pass the toilet paper?

Death and illness did not redeem Reagan. He was an evil human being, who perpetrated horrible acts on us. Though I don't feel any joy at his passing, his passage does not transform him into a decent human being.

[Zomby Woof]

107. spewing venom is good

Mmmmmmm.............spewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Fuck Reagan. Embrace the venom. No mercy on his corpse.

[Susang]

116. I prefer bile myself

Batboy likes guano. He just can't spew enough of that stuff. He makes his own, you know. He gives it out as gifts for Xmas. }(

[Forkboy]

111. Oh no...a fellow DUer may not be proud of me!

whatever shall I do?

[charlie]

113. Start the 10,000,000th vanity thread, of course

Everyone must have a thread with their name on it, it's the au courant thing to do this weekend.

[Forkboy]

118. My opinion isn't important enough for it's own thread

Something I wish a lot of others would get :)

[NV1962]

120. Yes it is!

Start a new thread on how important your opinion is, and I'll launch another with a poll on it!

[Forkboy]

122. lol

:D Dont get me started :spank:

[Lou_C]

153. LOL

[DemocratSinceBirth]

160. Whatever Dude

NT

[doni_georgia]

115. My mama always said

not to speak ill of the dead. I feel like it's bad form to do so until the family has had a time of mourning. Call me old fashioned, but that's just how it is for me. I agree with everyone here in that I did not like Reagan and felt his policies greatly damaged our country. Still, after watching my grandmother suffer for years before her death with Alzheimers, I wouldn't wish that only anyone. I know that for the Reagan family they "lost" him gradually over time, and that's a horrible experience. Regardless of the man's politics, he was a husband and father, and I will not bash him out of respect for the right of a family to mourn their loved one.

[yellowdog]

121. I can't think of much Reagan did that I approved of,

but I take no pleasure in his death. He had family and friends to miss him and Alzheimer's would be a hell of a way to go. It is an awful stress on the family as well as the sufferer.
We pitch a fit on this board when the freepers crow over a tragedy to a Democrat, such as Wellstone's death, so I would hope we would behave better when it happens to their side.

[scottcsmith]

127. I know it angered liberals when Wellstone died

...and how the right reacted to it. I know liberals who were very angry over right-wing reaction to Paul Wellstone's death. And now people here are stooping to the same level. It makes us look dumb, and it makes us look like hypocrites.

[Zhade]

158. How does it makes us hypocrites?

What you're forgetting is that Wellstone was an honorable man who worked hard to help the people, while Reagan was the killer of thousands of innocents and a destroyer of people's worlds.

You can't compare a lack of sympathy for a now-dead devil to the right's glee over the death of a wonderful man like Wellstone. It doesn't compute.

Remember how some young Republican fascists joked that they "had to kill Wellstone" to get Coleman in? The difference between the right and us is that we didn't kill Reagan, and they probably DID kill Wellstone!

[Spider Jerusalem]

129. I'm utterly indifferent.

Besides, I don't know who or what this "us" is. There is no "us". There is a large group of individuals who have very different opinions and choose to express them in a forum in which they are somewhat pertinent. Those who express (frequently quite colourful) negative opinions of the late Mr. Reagan may bring honour or dishonour upon themselves with their opinions, depending on one's viewpoint, but to suggest that any political party OR opinion forum which has room for right-of-centre Clintonite neo-liberals, pro-Israeli hawks, and firearms enthusiasts, AND for ultra-left anti-corporatists, Palestinian sympathisers, and militant animal rights activists is more than a little absurd.

Who exactly was it who decided that you get to define what is moral or acceptable, anyway? Since you speak of "we" and "us", it's obvious you think someone did.

[fujiyama]

132. I'm indifferent

I really don't care. I would prefer not to dance or piss on someone's grave or cheer about it. That's just bad taste.

However, the politics the man represented trully were terrible and I don't think people need to act as though they are sad in anyway. Let's not kid ourselves in anyway.

[bigtree]

133. I don't want to wait to clean up the drool from the apologists

I'm content to take the floor with the truth about this daft loser who cared for none other than his rich friends who bought him his ranch after his presidency and the cohorts and Japan who paid him two million after he left office. I don't see any need to give room for apologists who would blank out every slight and abuse of power that damaged millions of american lives. Tell it to the kids who grew up in poverty while Reagan yanked their safety net to pay for tax cuts for his wealthy friends. Let's hear some mourning for those who died of aids because of his willful neglect, or those kids who suffered without proper medical care because of his mindless, arbitrary cuts in the social net. Let's hear some mourning for the victims of his sectet Contra war and covert meddling.

These outweigh any obligation for any pause to pay homage to this dithering industry troll, this deposed king of corporatism, this privleged pretender. Cry for the children. Cry for the families. Give no quarter to the revisionist cannonization.


"I see your brows are full of discontent,
Your hearts of sorrow, and your eyes of tears."
William Shakespeare (1564–1616), British dramatist, poet. Abbot of Westminster, in Richard II, act 4, sc. 1, l. 332-3.

Speaking to the deposed King Richard’s supporters.


For God’s sake, let us sit upon the ground
And tell sad stories of the death of kings!
How some have been deposed, some slain in war,
Some haunted by the ghosts they have deposed,
Some poisoned by their wives, some sleeping killed—
All murdered; for within the hollow crown
That rounds the mortal temples of a king
Keeps Death his court, and there the antic sits,
Scoffing his state and grinning at his pomp,
Allowing him a breath, a little scene,
To monarchize, be feared, and kill with looks,
Infusing him with self and vain conceit,
As if this flesh which walls about our life
Were brass impregnable; and humored thus,
Comes at the last and with a little pin
Bores through his castle wall, and—farewell, king!

William Shakespeare (1564–1616), King Richard II (III, ii).

[Yupster]

135. You should have trademarked the word "yahoo"

back in 76.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

161. 80.... And Man Did One Fellow Student Take Offense

NT

[Raskolnik]

139. I'm posting this all over...

When my hero Paul Wellstone died a few years ago, the progressive liberal movement lost someone who they viewed as a champion and an icon. Some conservatives took the opportunity of his passing to mock his ideals and score cheap political points at his expense. They were terrible people for doing so.

Some conservatives, however, simply stated that although they disagreed with many of his political decisions, Wellstone was a man of his principles and at the moment it was simply a time to mourn a human being's passing and give condolences to his family. In particular, Rush Limbaugh showed restraint and behaved appropriately (surprisingly enough).

My question to those here at DU is this: if we can't be at least as good as that piece of garbage Limbaugh, what good are we? I LIKE being able to categorize liberals as the more humane and generous political group. I don't want to give people reason to doubt that.

I am NOT asking people to forget Reagan's many ill deeds. History will remember him appropriately, I believe. However, there is a time and place for attacking a man and his politics. The day of his death is not that day. We do ourselves and our cause a disservice when we descend into this kind of childish, ghoulish gloating at a man's death.

[fortyfeetunder]

140. Only exercising their First Amendment Rights!!

I'll withhold comment on those p*ssing on Reagan's grave. But remember it is the First Amendment that the son of Reagan's VP -- who is now working very hard to dismantle--gives them the right to say whatever they damn well please. Not that we may or may not agree with it...

[galadrium]

141. Well put, I agree

[Lori Price CLG]

143. Why yes, yes, I am ('Seinfeld' intonation).

Any time a Reichwing terrorist is dies, such as Ronald Raygun, we do not feel sorrow.

Lori Price
http://www.legitgov.org/

[Neecy]

146. They're STILL pissing on LBJ's grave

Let's bitch now about the father of the White House press secretary appearing on a History Channel "documentary" and giving a very vague account of how Johnson killed Kennedy (gasp!).

Lady Bird is still alive, and so are both of his daughters. Johnson, as we know, has been in the grave that they're still pissing on since 1973.

The "documentary" was so bogus that The History Channel had to run a special program apologizing for the sham and presenting a panel of historians to refute the smear.

If the idea of the do-gooders is to show respect to the family, I'll make a deal with the devil Republicans: if they stop pissing on the graves of those who have living family members, I'll do the same.

[Citizen Daryl]

148. "Shut It"

From my blog (http://www.thisistheshit.org/):

I'm neither happy nor sad at the news of Ronald Reagan's death. I feel absolutely nothing. This is a man who died a long time ago, and is only now able to be put to rest. As a teenager, I viewed him as I viewed Soviet General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev - the equal of two evils. Of course, we were never really taught about the nuts and bolts of Communism in public school, so I couldn't really make an informed decision as to whether the Communist ideal was ultimately good or bad. All I saw were two nations mad with power and each bent on imposing itself on it's rival and the rest of the world. I did think it was rather embarrassing to have a B-movie actor as president. I remember when he made the "we begin bombing in five minutes" comment and thinking how badly I wanted to punch him in the face for it. Then, of course, there was Iran-Contra, selling Saddam the chemical weapons he used on his own people, trafficking in drugs to further fund the Contras, his refusal to address the emerging AIDS crisis, the draconian "War on Drugs", and so on.

I guess what I'm saying here is that I'm going to have to disagree with the "Reagan is the Greatest American President" crowd. On the other hand, it does me no good to piss on Reagan's grave. It does no liberal a bit of good to piss on it - not in an election year. Like it or not, a lot of Americans view Ronald Reagan as an American hero. We're going to have enough opposition from the right-wing pundits next week. They're going to accuse us of everything but raping his corpse. We don't need to do their job for them. If you can't say anything about Reagan that doesn't involve Exorcist-style expletives, please keep it to yourself. Surely you can do that until November. Don't get me wrong, I still believe that any election this year is going to be an utter farce, but I desperately want to be proven wrong. What we don't need to do is hand it to them on a fucking platter.

[Forkboy]

149. I'm an American and I dont view him as a hero

and millions more also dont view him as a hero.

And no,we wont "shut it".

[Citizen Daryl]

166. Then enjoy another four years of Bush...

...after you've pissed off all the fence-sitters who respect the man. I hope your hatred for a dead man is worth another four years of hell.

[Forkboy]

179. yes yes yes

if someone is a big enough fuckwittage to vote for Bush because of something someone named Forkboy on the fucking internet says we deserve anything we get.

"If God is truly just then I tremble for the fate of my country"

[neuvocat]

152. The time of honor has long passed.

Reagan has brought the vitriolic rhetoric into everyday political debate. The morals and values he spoke of daily were eroded by that same rhetoric of his and civility under his rule deteriorated rapidly.

No one can respect such a man who did such things. They do not respect him now. Your appeal based on how we should appear to others is shallow and disturbingly insensitive.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

162. I'll Eat My Monitor If The Man On Your Avatar Didn't Repsect Reagan

And I respect him...


Honor has nothing to do with how you want others to view you...


It's akin to doing the right thing when no one else is around...

[Citizen Daryl]

169. Pissing on dead people = Cowardly Freeper behavior n/t

[Zhade]

154. Bullshit question.

The better one to ask is, why are progressives allowing Reagan's crimes to be swept under the rug?

FUCK that. The man was a horrible president and human being who pursued policies that killed thousands of innocents - millions, actually, by ignoring AIDS for six years - and that affect us to this day.

I won't piss on his grave, or dance around with glee, but I sure as hell will NOT assist the right in whitewashing the man's record.

[incrediblehulk]

157. It Is Because Of Reagan

that "Liberal" is a swear word to much of the country. It is because of Reagan and his followers that Democrats/Liberals constantly have their patriotism questioned. It is because of Reagan that deficit spending has become a way of life in this country which endangers the future of our once-great land. It is because of Reagan that Social Darwinism replaced Christian Charity as the underlying philosophy of our government. I will not miss him. But then, he's been "gone" a long time already.

[flaminbats]

155. Only freepers piss on tombstones...

they do it to the graves of Kennedy, Wellstone, Ron Brown, Vince Foster, and even Martin Luther King.

Nothing is sacred to freepers. But life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is sacred to all DUers.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

159. His haliography as Saint Ronnie continues to kill. That must be debunked.

His grave MUST be pissed on to deny the mythology of virtue that has been fabricated around his avuncularity.

His image as a loveable grandpa justice cowboy goes a long way to convincing TV Nation that they are the master race and can bomb and murder with impunity in God's name.

HE MUST BE REVILED FOR HIS REAL LEGACY OF MASS MURDER AND EUGENICS:

-His secret wars in Central America complete with death squads and mass graves (oh look, John Negroponte is headed for Baghdad now),

-his emptying the mental institutions on to the streets giving us armies of homeless many of whom are veterans,

-his economic eugenics from insisting that poor people were lazy and not to be trusted,

-his obscene military budgets and fixation on an already dying Soviet Union,

-his inability to distinguish reality from myth that Americans to this day suffer and causes mass murder as a result of their inability to think rationally without jingoism.

These are just a few of the reasons I'm glad the bastard has left this world to join the many he killed. Good riddance. Now let's evolve and heal from the grotesque dysfuntion he helped bestow on this trouble nation.

[noiretextatique]

163. other: i don't give a FUCK!!!!!

there is no "US" people...we are here for a common purpose (to rid the world of ANOTHER american madman masquerading as president...again)...that's it and that's all. i have little else in common with most of you, and honestly, i don't think any of US are really any better than THEM.

[dbt]

165. Honor has NOTHING to do with this.

And who gives SHIT ONE what anybody who reads this might think of us? Let's face it. If Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy or Bill Clinton were to die, the Reich Wing would be elbowing each other out of the way to do EXTREME amounts of grave pissing.

FUCK REAGAN.

dbt

[JHBowden]

167. Of course.

Reagan bashing has no negative consequences. Why not?

[qanda]

168. I cannot say that I am proud of them

Because it's not something that I would do, but I absolutely respect their right to say how they feel. Like I said in a thread yesterday, the opposite side of people revising history to make Reagan a saint should be just as annoying to people.

[ElectroPrincess]

173. No, but it cuts both ways ya know ; )

No I'm not proud of those who trash Reagan.

However, more to the VALID here and now. Presently I'm even more disgusted with the Right Wing Radical sites who *obsess* on degrading the character of individual DU members.

Words can not describe how dispicable and immature (Junior High Pranks) it is for some to devote entire forums to degrading individuals who have no option of a sane and viable recourse. Despite our size and diversity, we deomstrate the discipline and class to refrain from attacking any *individual* from this or any other forum.

Can't the radical right wingers lurking here find more valid ways to entertain themselves rather than scamper off to their right wing forums to degrade individuals posting at DU?

My Point: The far left and far right are EQUALLY deplorable in their radical rhetoric and stereotyping individuals the other POLITICAL side (liberals vs. radical right) as less than human. Although leftists are welcome at DU, they are not permitted to degrade other individuals. Therefore, IMHO, the left is demonstrating far more class than the radical right. <cursy and exit stage moderate left>

*edited for grammar

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

170. Oh boo hoo. People are saying things I don't like

Man, this is a free forum and I don't feel like pissing on his grave. I hated the presidency, was indifferent to the man, have sympathy FOR HIS FAMILY - not him, but I'm not going to hold anything against angry DUers who want to vent. Nor ones who liked Raygun.

[scrotim]

174. this is hardly a free forum. folks get banned from here all the time. n/t

[ElectroPrincess]

175. I agree ...

The administration makes no apologies that this is a Democratically oriented forum,i.e., democratic party leaning views on issues. Unfortunately far too many folks from the far right try to disrupt things here. I am so thankful to be here rather than the radical right sites who constantly shout individuals down who disagree with Herr Bush. It's nice not to be referred to as a "leftist bitch" within every other post on right leaning forums.

Thank God (very sincere) for DU!

[bobthedrummer]

171. He made several references to alien forces uniting the world and he

placed a fucking wreath and spoke friendly words in a fucking Nazi SS cemetary:puke::grr::argh:

CIA Heroin, Crack and Iran-Contra spilled out as traitors like Ollie North lied to the world in the uniform of a United States Marine:grr:and T.V. evangelist buddies were recruited for fascist, racist ideology and agenda imho.

It was on his watch that space was militarized and mind control expanded.
Star Wars, Star Trek and Killing Politely by Dr. Nick Begich
http://www.adacomp.net/~mcherney/starwars.html

I'm glad that fucker's gone.

[takebackourjobs]

177. The subject of your topic

puts a slant on the vote you request. Most of what I have seen posted in this forum is not "pissing on Reagan's grave" or dishonoring his life. The whole story of his life needs to be told, complete. Discussing the many despicable acts he presided over that are being glossed over in deference to his status as POTUS, is not mean-spirited. The republicans will seize the moment of his death to beat the drums for their cause by hitching their policies to his distorted legacy. I see no reason for their opportunism to go unchallenged.

[bullimiami]

178. Bring honor?

No. But Reagan was a monster in many ways and I dont begrudge anyone their right to express any feelings.

[buddhamama]

180. spew venom or truth? this is HIS legacy

i'm not celebrating, i'm remembering.

to be honest though,
and maybe i'm more realistic than some, or less sentimental whatever,
but if i hd done even a quarter of what ol' Ronny did,
i wouldn't be surprised if people pissed on my grave too.
heck, i'd expect it.

[patdem]

181. I refuse to respect a dead man who when alive trashed live people

and made their lives hell!!!...may he go to the hell he created for so many people in America...the most vulnerable in America to enrich the lest vulnerable...just like bush*

[DebJ]

184. Bush regime will now make Reagan into a God, rewrite history

[FlaGranny]

185. My question is WHY?

Reagan has been dissed here ever since there's been a DU. None of us, that I know of, has any respect for the man. Why do you all feel the dissing has to be revved up a notch at the time of his death? The man actually died years ago.

One of the posters above had it right - shows a total "lack of class."

The man had people, family and friends, who cared for him. You can't hurt Reagan any more, but you can hurt some perfectly nice people who are still around.

[quaker bill]

186. I relish the death of no man.

My condolences to this family.

That being said, there was for all practical purposes nothing that Reagan did in public life that I agreed with.