Just heard something on KPFK - Pacifica that freaked me out

[PlanetBev]

Robert Reich, Clinton's Labor Secretary was being interview by Ian Masters and Reich said that it seems likely now the Bush will dump Cheney and will pick Rudy Guiliani as a running mate. I know we've all discussed this among ourselves, but hearing it from a Washington insider scares me to death. I feel if Bush picked Guiliani, we'd be dead. We'd even lose NY.

I'm a little surprised he said this, however. I believe that Cheney would be kept on as a place holder for Jeb.

Anyway, I just had to take an anxiety pill. I'm that freaked out.

[molly]

1. I don't know how he would get away with it

Cheney is much too powerful.

[Beatrix]

49. So?

He could take one for the team I'm sure.

Also, doesn't he have a phone? He doesn't need to be in the white house to direct things...

[lancdem]

2. I doubt this will happen

but if it does, it won't ultimately make a difference. Vice presidents don't win or lose elections.

[metasphere]

19. agreed- i just can't see it

cheney and bush seem to be a package deal

[Zinfandel]

27. It WILL happen, expect it. This makes perfect sense all the way around!!!

Cheney can collect his millions from Halliburton and still be an "adviser" to Bush (even though Cheney will still be running and directing the show).

Giuliani would give the Bush campaign a huge boost and Giuliani is also Catholic (the good Catholic, anti-choice, pro war, etc...) After 9-11, outside of New York, the country (except liberals & progressives) adore Giuliani. think he's a hero. and he's a much better speaker than Cheney.

Cheney is a handicap to Bush in the campaign this time around, he's mean looking, ugly and snarly. Cheney has too much baggage this time around with lawsuits pending up the ass. Cheney can also take a lot of the heat off Bush by retiring (9-11, WMD, etc.)

And Cheney has the perfect excuse...We all know he has heart problems...So, the great man & American patriot that he is, Cheney is stepping down for the good of the country. What a guy!

It will be a great move for the republicans to hold power.

Expect it to happen.

[DoYouEverWonder]

53. Guiliani is not a good Catholic

He is up to, I believe his 3rd marriage. Publicly cheated on his last wife. Hasn't been much of a father to his kids, since he found his latest love. Plus I'm pretty sure he's pro-choice. Rudi should be a candidate for excommunication, not VP.

[BeachBuckeye]

33. Lyndon Johnson helped Kennedy win

Without Johnson's Texas following, Kennedy would'nt have made it into the White House.

[salonghorn70]

55. LBJ Elected Kennedy

No doubt about it. LBJ was significant in Kennedy's election. Nevertheless, he may have been the last VP to make such a huge contribution.

[bluestateguy]

3. Giuliani is pro-gay and pro-choice

He will be vetoed by the religious right.

[buycitgo]

7. remember, though.......they'll do ANYthing

if that means Cheney having to sleep among the WH ceiling joists to pull dumbo's strings, they'll have him "retire for health reasons"

[NewJeffCT]

26. Yes, that may be true - BUT

But, Bush will still decide any sort of court nominations through Karl Rove & Ashcroft.

Rudy will be the lone moderate, like Powell is now, after Powell leaves after the election. Look how much power Powell has now!

[lanparty]

45. They also dislike ...

...CATHOLICS!!!! For all their pandering over some Bishops decision to bar abortion supporters from communion, the evangelicals still cannot STAND the Catholic Church.

[benddem]

4. This makes no sense

The Christian Coalition would have a stroke. They would never support a candidate who lived with his mistress in the same place as his children...and who is not opposed to gay marriage. Just can't happen

[I_like_chicken]

13. I think it makes a lot of sense

i think the christian coalition will support bush no matter what, given the alternative. Bush's poll numbers have been really shitty lately, and they need something drastic to change things. And from the looks of things, everything seems to be setting up for a Giualani vice presidency, I heard hes going to play a prominet roll at the Repub Convention this year. I think Bush cares more about reelcetion than he does about Cheney.

[seabeyond]

16. christian coalition validates and justifies its hypocrisy

as do the fundamentalist islamics.

[IggleDoer]

20. Rudy the adulterer?

And he lived with two gay guys when his ex-wife kicked him out.

[lanparty]

43. But what if ...

What if Giuliani was "born again" into the evangelical fold. Then his sins would be wiped away with the cloth of hypocrisy ... RIGHT??? ;-)

[Skittles]

50. it they though it would get Bush back in the White House

they wouldn't give a f***

[Mike Niendorff]

57. That's because you are assuming ...

... that those phony "Christians" of the "Christian Coalition" actually *have* principles (beyond their knee-jerk hatred of anything they associate with "the left"). Their behavior strongly contradicts this assumption, imho.


MDN

[I_like_chicken]

5. I dont think we'd lose NY

in this situation, theres too much hatred of bush in NY that I don't even think Giulani can save him there.

[sleepyhead]

66. No way would we lose NY.

There are many many people in NYC who are, to say the least, not particularly fond of Giuliani. And upstaters will mistrust him because he is an ethnic urban dweller. I wouldn't lose much sleep over NY.

[Turbineguy]

6. Maybe Rove has figured out

that if Bush wins, Cheney will dump him and Cheney doesn't need Rove either.

[NMDemDist2]

8. to die hard Repubs it won't matter who is VP

to die hard Dems it won't matter who runs with *, so it still rests on the 5-15% of the "undecided" and Guiliani won't do much I don't think.

If you have to take a "chill pill" everytime they float a new rumor, you'd better reserve a bed at Betty Ford's for 11-4-2004 :)

But if they run a McCain/Powell ticket we can worry

[PlanetBev]

17. LOL, AZ Dem

I do worry what shape I'll be in the morning after the election if Bush wins. I'll be a wastoid, drooling in the corner.

You think I'm coming unhinged? My 57 year old sister told me that if Bush wins, she can't be held responible for what she will do...

[NMDemDist2]

22. my pacifist hubby says if * tried to steal another election that even

hubby will take to the streets with me :wow:

[lanparty]

46. I'll join you ...

I have a deep fear that if Bush wins, this will be the LAST election this country will see for some time.

[senseandsensibility]

37. I honestly feel

the same. If * wins, I'll have to be sedated to prevent my total breakdown. But, you know what? It's good that we feel this way. This time, we will NOT sit back and "let the process work". We know too much.

[carnie_sf]

9. Cheney's really in charge

Bush will never dump Cheney, since he's the guy that is really calling the shots.

[dbt]

48. Arrrrr!

Welcome ta DU, carnie_sf!

:hi:
dbt

[Jade Fox]

10. I don't believe we would lose NY. The love affair...

between NYC and Guliani has taken some serious blows since 9/11.

Plus, picking pro-choice Guliani would lose Bush a lot of Right wing
Christian support.

If it happens it will be a big risk for the GOP, and I doubt if it would
pay off.

[Beatrix]

56. No it won't

Who are they going to vote for instead? A ticket with two pro choice people or a ticket with Bush and a pro-choice VP? They could go third party, but then they face the same question as the Greens.

[seabeyond]

60. i like love affair is gone

also can be a reminder epa fudged the air quality adn guliani knew, maybe not for rest of country, would impact nyc

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

11. Plame.

There's a good chance that Cheney won't be a viable VP in three or four months. I think that's where this speculation comes from.

[barbaraann]

12. Bush is behaving erratically now.

So, anything is possible, IMHO.

[amber dog democrat]

24. He does seem to be wrapped a little too tight

these days. He will be acting less and less sane from now on.
Not even Rudy can save him however.

[barbaraann]

31. LOL What is an amber dog democrat?

:-)

[amber dog democrat]

39. Its a variation on a theme, I suppose

My folks were Democrats going back to Reconstruction in Texas.
Its still yellow - kinda.

[napi21]

14. I'm not sure it's a lock. Rudy is admired for his handling of

the NY disaster, but prior to that, he was a pretty hated guy. It's also true that the neocons wouldn't accept him because of his pro-choice pro gay stance.

Reich is a pretty good guy, but sometimes says thinks for his own publicity.

[StaggerLee]

15. I dislike Guiliani with a passion

He's part of the failure to protect New Yorkers on 911 and he's gonna be my VP? I don't THINK SO.

But I honestly don't think Cheney will be alive in 2008, unless his brain is transplanted into the body of a *robot.

*See Sealab 2021 episode titled: I, Robot for a good chuckle

[WillyT]

18. Do You Think Guiliani Would Step Onto That Hell-Bound Train NOW ???

I'm seriously asking.

If they had done this stunt a year ago, for Cheney's 'health', it might have been plausible. But Guiliani has his own political barometer and not just a few advisers, and him jumping into this current mess would truly be swinging for the fences.

I doubt that Guiliani wants to be ferried over to the Bush Titanic with all those icebergs on the horizon!!!

:shrug:

Damn, couldn't come up with a plane analogy, LOL!

:silly:

[Gloria]

21. There's been a lot of talk about him running for Senate against Hillary...

Besides, his personal life is not very pretty and his handling of money to NYC post 911 is downright suspect. And, if the media were on our side, they would rehash it over and over....But, it's pretty widely known and some Dems with guts could drop a few comments and snide insinuations.

There has also been a lot of talk about how Rudy doesn't have the personality to be VP. He wants the stage.

[lanparty]

47. Agreed ...

This is one guy who would probably lay low. If Bush loses this election, McCain is the sure fire nominee in 2008. Giuliani may fit well with that ticket.

[Eloriel]

23. Well, where did I read that Mario Cuomo had recently said

that holding the RNC convention in NYC would be "very, very, very good for them." It seemed like a hint at something precisely like this.

Remember, tho, most people don't vote for VPs. And most people realize that the VP doesn't usually have that much to do with policy.

[troublemaker]

25. They would lose as many fundies as they'd gain other folks

Reich is just messing with them.

[Nlighten1]

28. It won't matter...

Cheney will STILL be running the show from the VP's office. Guiliani will have to set up show in the basement.

[salin]

29. Would lose a big chunk of the voting but not overly politicized

religious voters. A whole chunk of voters who trend moderate conservative but are not loyal republicans - voted against Ford (due to Nixon) in 1976, and (sadly) voted against Gore due to affiliation with Clinton (claim was "he should have denounced Clinton's behavior) in 2000. I know a number of these folks. They aren't quite fully taken with Bush's God act - but are trying to believe the best in him (giving him the benefit of a doubt...as to believe otherwise allows some pretty heinous considerations of which they are not ready to 'see'.)... but they aren't thrilled. Put Rudy ... divorced twice and moved my girlfriend into the Mayor's mansion while my wife and child was there... on the ticket. Those folks will be torn. Kerry is divorced - but wasn't flaunting and as bad (in their opinion) as Clinton.

Bush loses more than he gains with Rudy.

[dsc]

30. Guiliani is pro choice

end of story.

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. Not sure Rudy would play that well outside of NYC

[Media_Lies_Daily]

36. Based on the 911 Commission hearings, it doesn't look like...

...he's playing too well inside NYC either.

[kentuck]

34. The Christian Right would not accept him...

I do not believe...Mistresses in the state house, etc...

[senseandsensibility]

38. I want to believe you're right

and I respect your opinion, but, as a Californian, I have to say.... the Christian right accepted the Gropinator. So if this in fact happens, we can't sit back and accept it. Someone will have to hit Rudy hard to force these issues into the media. I canceled my subsription to my hometown paper, a major daily, because they literally did not print a word of the Gropinators Nazi ties, harrassment of women, drug use, gang bangs, etc. If Rudy is part of a * ticket, we better scream bloody murder and not be afraid to get our hands dirty, because the Christian right WILL accept what the mainstream media tells them. And they will be doing backflips to hide it from the public.

[Zinfandel]

40. Your absolutely correct, senseandsensibility

[salin]

42. The christian right doesn't tip elections in Calfornia

but they have serious pull in other areas.

[senseandsensibility]

44. The point is

the Christian right in most parts of the US do not KNOW about Rudy's infidelity,etc.They listen mostly to right wing talk shows and FAUX. Even CNN and the networks can be trusted to cover for him. So if he is part of the ticket, we have to make sure they know. And it won't be easy. In California, if the average religious Republican had known about the Gropinator, it would have been much more difficult for him. But even middle of the road media outlets were silent. Finally, the LA Times broke something days before the election. It was too late.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

35. Now, why would ANYONE think that this would HELP the Fratboy Fuhrer??

[yellowcanine]

41. Calm down, Guiliani would NOT help Bush in NY or anywhere

else. In fact he would lose rw fundy support because Rudy is prochoice. Besides that Bush would be lost without Chaney. Why would he dump him? If Cheney goes down Bush goes down.

[Beatrix]

51. Also this prepares them for 2008

Chaney won't seek office for obvious reasons in 08. Guiliani, however, would be able to run and continue repub rule.

[Zinfandel]

52. Yes, again, it makes perfect sense for the republicans.

[charlie]

54. Guiliani is a showboater

a gloryhound, a look-at-me incorrigible ham. A self-interested loose cannon. High maintenance. Not a team player. Dubya would have major regrets 5 minutes after recruiting him. I doubt it'll happen.

[Beatrix]

59. Ok if not Guiliani

Then another VP. I think this might just be "testing the waters" with Guiliani.

I expect they will try a new VP. There is every reason for them to do it and few for them not to. If they do it right it could give Bush enough momentum to come ahead in the polls.

[Beatrix]

58. Just also occured to me

1. As far as abortion... He could have a sudden change of position if it was really required. Still, I think the people who vote solely on abortion will STILL vote for Bush. Again - a ticket that is entirely pro-choice or a ticket that is headed by a strongly anti-abortion bush and a pro-abortion VP. The Bush ticket would still be far better than the Kerry ticket. (they run in to the "Green" situation. Vote 3rd party and let Kerry in, or vote Bush? Considering they are the lockstep party probably Bush.) This is especially true considering more than likely Bush will remain president his entire term, so if the VP supports it or not is not important.

2. This would also help down play the poor taste of exploting 9/11. "Ohhh no! We had this all planned! We didn't pick NY because of 9/11, we picked it because we knew the VP would be from here!"

[ElectroPrincess]

62. Cheney is the power ...

Albeit from an undisclosed location, make no mistake = Cheney runs this country. Cheney's President in everything but name. Rudy is too power mad, goofy, and uncontrolable to the PNAC crones who pull the USA Executive Branch's strings to risk replacing Dick with a Macho-Mahn.

Hell, the old bastards so horny, we just might have to tolerate another "intern" scandal. Nope, as long as Cheney's pacemaker's functional, he's the man. :P Remember kids: Evil never takes a day off. LOL

[seabeyond]

61. may have been said, would show desperation of bushie

it would suck any positive energy they had out of their team if they were to drop cheney. would smell like losers

[Beatrix]

63. I don't see how

if they come out saying Cheney's heart condition makes him unsuitable to run for office again then I don't see how it would...

[seabeyond]

65. nobody will believe the heart thing

nobody. everyone is joking about it

[malachibk]

64. We would NOT lose NY

There a LOT of people here in NYC that remeber pre-911 Guiliani. We'd be able to remind people of his fascist tendencies -- there are many examples.