I keep hearing "Reagan restored pride to Americans"....

[glarius]

As a non-American, that puzzles me....Are they saying Americans were not proud to be Americans while Jimmy Carter was president??....This is a slap in the face undeserved by President Carter.....They also give Reagan credit for ending Communism.....a fable as far as I'm concerned....I remember Gorbachev going to England and Margaret Thatcher saying he was someone she "could do business with."....He also came to Canada and toured our country, checking out how things ran before he met with Reagan.......In other words Gorbachev was on the road to changing his government's system some time before he met with Reagan.....

[Fovea]

1. I am a heathen

But isn't pride a sin to Christians?

[troublemaker]

2. It is hate dressed up as love

It's all they can do... even their idea of positive is negative at heart.

[kentuck]

3. Just part of their big lie...

Nobody called them on it and they were able to get away with it.... Didn't you know everybody loved Ronnie?

[theboss]

4. Read Carter's "Malaise" speech

Carter largely created the story of the 1970s being one of lack of pride, lack of purpose, lack of hope for the future, etc. Reagan latched onto that admission and road it for all it was worth and then when things improved, took all the credit for it.

The story of the Fall of Communism is a long and complex one. Reagan was a central player in the story, but what bothers me is that we act like he was the first president to "stand up" to Communism. Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, and Carter all spoke against it publicly and committed men and treasure to fight it. But again, Reagan gets all the credit (though Poppy Bush tried to take all the credit in '92).

[salin]

10. That is how it is portrayed... but if I recall

the speech was more about making sacrifice (eg conservation of energy) to work together to make America strong... recall it was a period of stagflation and inflation (nixon on several occasions placed price freezes on certain goods due to the inflation)... it was a period of hyper reliance on foreign sources of oil - he called us to put our creativity into the development of alternative fuels to prevent being held hostage again. He talked of sacrifices being shared (poor and wealthy) as a whole in a unified working as a single people...

The message wasn't about malaise as much as unity and shared work/commitment to the country.

Compare that to: we are going to war... now do your thing and go shop! oh and give the rich more tax cuts! oh and we'll give no bid contracts to some of our biggest campaign donors - so when we double tax you to a point because we use those excess social security dollars to pay for our spending and tax cuts... making it less and less likely that you will get anything.. hey no problem the rich are richer and you got to go shopping!

[theboss]

12. True

The speech was largely misinterpretd, but it was misinterpreted from the moment it was given.

And it was largely Carter's fault for being misinterpreted. He was honest to a fault. No other President in American history would have said that the nation was adrift and lacked confidence:

"The threat is nearly invisible in ordinary ways. It is a crisis of confidence. It is a crisis that strikes at the very heart and soul and spirit of our national will. We can see this crisis in the growing doubt about the meaning of our own lives and in the loss of a unity of purpose for our nation.

The erosion of our confidence in the future is threatening to destroy the social and the political fabric of America."

[TreasonousBastard]

13. Yup, Carter was repeating...

Kennedy's "Ask not what your country can do for you..." and it flew like a lead balloon.

The country was much more in the mood for "You don't owe anyone shit-- you are greedy little spoiled brats, and that's OK."

[theboss]

17. It had a different tone

Kennedy's "Ask not what your country can do for you" request was surrounded by rhetoric talking about how it was a new generation leading a strong country into an exciting time that may be filled with dangers but was also filled with great opportunity.

Carter's request was filled by rhetoric that said "We are in trouble" and "You all think I am a poor leader."

[TreasonousBastard]

22. I'll go along with that...

and you are right that no politician should ever give a speech so pessimistic as Carter's was.

It wouldn't have been all that difficult to change the mood of the speech from pessimism to optimism in what we are capable of. Optimism is where Reagan came in and blew away all challengers.

[theboss]

24. And that's the difference

Pride is largely perception. Carter and Reagan could have been presented the same problem and Carter would always come up with the better solution, but he would have made it sound very unpleasant. But Reagan would offer no solution but make you feel good.

[cosmicdot]

21. the word "malaise" isn't used in the speech

using it as the speech's "title" helps enable the lies which Reagan-Poppy-and DimSon are based and continually are based ...

There they go, again.

yet, the title, "the Malaise Speech", is found everywhere where the myths and lies are perpetuated ... as if the truth ...

... truth out, people ...

For a Democrat to use the GOP-George Will-type pundit-given title out of context, as if 'fact', just reinforces the learning process on just how easy it is to mislead and dupe the public ... people bought it ... still buy it ... super-size it ... presto ... voila ...



yes, do read the speech ... read it for yourselves ... compare for oneself ... see how Reagan and his I-O-them team, along with the complicity of the spurned Beltway Inside establishment and their puppet pundits ... toss in some uninformed public ... spread their disinformation and misconceptions ...

this current White House is a flashback ... Déjà Vu ... to this earlier version of the same song and dance team ... smoke and mirrors updated ... and, of course, the obligatory dog and pony shows ...

Carter was challenging the American people, and appealing to them to ask Congress to do the smart thing about ... of all subjects ~~ surprise ~~ energy --- Déjà Vu ... one still with us today ... calling on the American people to assess their materialism and selfishness, so we could unite behind resolving a common denominator ... an issue challenging all of our standards of living: energy.


"Human identity is no longer defined by what one does, but by what one owns."

If it was anyone espousing "family values" in challenging the American people, it was Jimmy Carter.

Considered one of the most important speeches given by a US president, but often over-looked. Carter tells of a country on the brink of selfishness, greed, and a further polarity in the economics of the citizens.

Déjà Vu

America choose - with the help of little hostage-weapon espionage, myth-building PR and plain old lies - to accept the astronomical lines of plastic credit the Reagan Bankers bestowed upon them ... and, mail-order catalog buying soared ... heck, we must have been in a malaise ... now, we were in debt ... up to our eyeballs ... who created malaise?


~snip~

First of all, we must face the truth, and then we can change our course. We simply must have faith in each other, faith in our ability to govern ourselves, and faith in the future of this Nation. Restoring that faith and that confidence to America is now the most important task we face. It is a true challenge of this generation of Americans. . . .

We are at a turning point in our history. There are two paths to choose. One is a path I've warned about tonight, the path that leads to fragmentation and self-interest. Down that road lies a mistaken idea of freedom, the right to grasp for ourselves some advantage over others. That path would be one of constant conflict between narrow interests ending in chaos and immobility. It is a certain route to failure.

All the traditions of our past, all the lessons of our heritage, all the promises of our future point to another path, the path of common purpose and the restoration of American values. That path leads to true freedom for our Nation and ourselves. We can take the first steps down that path as we begin to solve our energy problem.

Of course, Jimmy Carter, the grassroots politician, who rose to the Presidency by way of 'post-Chicago 1968-smoke filled backroom' arrived in Washington to closed arms ... the Democratic nominating system had changed, but the insiders were still insiders, and not pleased of not having their way - so, Carter faced a hostile environment from day one.

~snip~

"Little by little we can and we must rebuild our confidence. We can spend until we empty our treasuries, and we may summon all the wonders of science. But we can succeed only if we tap our greatest resources--America's people, America's values, and America's confidence.

I have seen the strength of America in the inexhaustible resources of our people. In the days to come, let us renew that strength in the struggle for an energy-secure nation.

In closing, let me say this: I will do my best, but I will not do it alone. Let your voice be heard. Whenever you have a chance, say something good about our country. With God's help and for the sake of our Nation, it is time for us to join hands in America. Let us commit ourselves together to a rebirth of the American spirit. Working together with our common faith we cannot fail."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/filmmore/ps_crisis.html



DÉJÀ VU

by David Crosby

If I had ever been here before
I would probably know just what to do
Don't you?

If I had ever been here before on another time around the wheel
I would probably know just how to deal
With all of you.

And I feel
Like I've been here before

Feel
Like I've been here before

And you know
It makes me wonder
What's going on under the ground

Do you know?
Don't you wonder?
What's going on down under you.

We have all been here before
We have all been here before
We have all been here before
We have all been here before

[theboss]

23. The problem is it was viewed as a failure at the time

Yes, Reagan latched onto it. But it was a viewed as a defining moment for Carter nearly from the time it was given. Teddy White made it the centerpiece of his 1980 volume of "The Making of the President." And Carter's few remaining allies in Congress fled from him.

One of the things I find most strange on DU is the failure to understand Carter's Presidency. His failures are viewed as some sort of Republican conspiracy.

But it was a different era. The Right was not organized then as it was now. The Christian Right was still taking shape. There was not a righ-wing attack media led by Limbaughs, Murdochs, Scaifes, and the like. The Party was still led by the Rockefeller wing.

Carter's failures are that of a man overwhelmed by a job and unable to control his own Party.

Carter had a huge Democratic Majority in the House, a Filibuster-Proof Senate. He could still not get important legislation passed. And Ted Kennedy ran against him.

[randr]

5. He restored pride to the most ugly of Americans

His rhetoric gave the racists and unamerican scum that had taken a beating throughout the civil rights movement a voice.
Hate crimes became the daily news and the woman's movement toward an ERA became history.

[Philostopher]

6. The Cold War ended because

The economies of the 'superpowers' could no longer afford an infinite buildup of weaponry. The Soviet Union's economy was suffering badly, and Gorbachev saw opportunities for the people for whom he was responsible.

Reagan was in office at the right time to take credit for the culmination of policies started while Eisenhower was in office that forced a massive hemmorhage of money into weapons programs on the USSR, and took money for social programs away from Soviet citizens. Eventually, the people of the USSR got to the point they couldn't tighten their belts anymore, and I think Gorbachev feared a violent revolution of some kind.

All the gladhanding and 'saved the world' crap is just that -- crap. It could have happened at any time from about 1975 on. Of course, I challenge you to find a Republican -- or any Democrat who voted for Reagan, for that matter -- who'll admit that. Most of them want to see American history as some kind of Mother Goose fable where might makes right, and their ostensible heroes are the only ones who did anything right.

That's not to say we don't have a certain percentage of that on the left, as well ... but we generally tend to see our leaders, even the successful ones, as human beings not archetypes. Republicans like archetypes -- they don't want to get involved in all those dirty complexities of motivation and intrigue behind the scenes. Ronald Reagan was a strong, heroic man who single-handedly trampled the USSR. Because they said so.

[phantom power]

7. Reagan was highly overrated

Reagan was extremely overrated as a president. Nobody talks about the failure of his economics, or the massive debt he left us with. Or the damage he and James Watt did to the environment.

And I never understood the whole "great communicator" myth. About the same as calling dubya a "compassionate conservative" Everybody says it, but it's just a hollow phrase that people repeat to themselves.

Don't get me started on the whole "Ending the USSR" thing. What a crock.

[GOPisEvil]

8. It was a con job.

Reagan blew sunshine up all of our asses. He gave us endless platitudes about how great we were, then proceeded to borrow against the future of the country to create the illusion of strength.

[KharmaTrain]

9. It's A Media Myth...Always Has Been

I wish I could remember who wrote the book about growing up in the 70's and 80's (I read it a long time ago), but the point of the essay was "our generation"...The Baby Boomers reached financial "maturity" in the 80's...finally had our first taste of making money and those who did became Repugnicans, those who didn't stayed Democrats. While I never totally subscribed to that theory, I never forgot it either.

Carter gets a bum wrap since he inherited an economy in the late 70's that had been ravaged by nearly a decade of non-stop inflation that took off even further thanks to draconian Nixon price controls. Carter's failure was not bringing in Paul Volker sooner than he did (Raygun got that credit) and increasing defecit spending (nowhere near what Raygun later did) to stabilize the economy...but that didn't happen. I dare say the next Democrat elected President will have a similar problem thanks to this regime's spending and slashing.

For most of us, the 80's was the roughest decades of our lives. Minimum wage was $3.35 an hour and never budged...union busting, down-sizing, consolidating and the first wave of deregulation hit the economy...making the rich richer and tearing the middle class apart. Many others have chronicled how Raygun's economic policies created the worst living conditions since the Depression, but that's ignored since those who sing the praises on our media were the winners, not the losers in those days.

I think a lot of this Raygun adulation is wrapped in a test of faith among the Repugnicans in this country. They are now using it as a distraction from the non-stop bad news about their regime and also a rallying point (similar to how some Democrats did around Wellstone) for their own special interests.

This noise will soon hit "critical max" in the media...and I think it already has...a majority of people will tune off the coverage and soon we'll start hearing about all the abuses and scandals this current regime is involved with.

Also, remember, this is the memorial time...soon there's gonna be the "second look"...where the icon is brought down to size. And history has already judged Raygun's legacy by the results in Central America and Afghanistan.

[Demeter]

11. Ronald Reagan--He Put the Ugly Back Into American!

A fitting epitaph, if I do say so myself!

[the Kelly Gang]

14. My favorite Reagan scene was when he was filmed chatting to

the Queen of England and he commented on the terrible traffic travelling to Buckingham Palace..HRH replied it was because of the transport strikes ,in a very non judgmental way as an explanation..and Ronnie got animated and began to say " oh we have those type of people as well and.."..Nancy's face froze, one eye on the camera and one on the Queen's face as RR was about to embroil the Queen in a diatribe on Unions !
She quickly changed the subject and saved the day..this man was just stupid.

[LoverOfLiberty]

15. Its partly true

Jimmy Carter was a good man and an effective president. Unfortunately for him, events during his presidency (economic problems, Iran hostages, cultural shifts) played into people's fears that the United States had become weak.

I think that by the late 70's Americans were in a funk over a lot of things, most notably the fall of Saigon in 1975. There was a sense that the US had reached it's apex and was on the downslide. Remember, up until Vietnam, Americans believed that we had never lost a war.

Reagan reversed these emotions by dumping tons of (borrowed) money into the military. It become clear in the 1980's that we were militarily the strongest country in the world. He stood up to the Communists. We were once again badasses and proud. Most of it was bluster, of course. Imagine the good we could have done with all of that money spent in the 80's (and now) on the military.

"Yep, Reagan made us proud once again to be Americans." You'll hear it a million times over the next week if you watch the news.

The sad thing is, it is true.

[indigobusiness]

16. Among other deadly sins...

how many of the other six, I can't say.


From I. Fester Auspice's day in court:

The damn Clinton appointed liberal Judge brought forth the charges. I sat patiently in my chair admiring the lovely gray suited court reporter. The Judge went on and on about indecent and illicit activities. I began to wonder how in the world they could make me out to be such a pervert. I am a conservative republican. I served in the White House on President Ronald Wilson Reagan’s staff. How can I be anything but a man of morals, values, honesty, and integrity? At that moment, the court reporter uncrossed her legs and unknowingly, her muff winked at me. "Old I. Fester has made a new friend, " I thought to myself.

http://www.republicanpress.com/auspice.htm

[Az]

18. He returned pride to Fundimentalist Christianity

For a long time social and scientific progress had been forcing Fundimentalist Christianity ever more into obscurity and silence. The Neocons behind Reagan saw his fundimentalist views as a link to the growing chorus of radical religious right groups that were forming around the Roe V Wade and School issues.

The liberal dominance of the schools enforced ideas repugnent to the radical religious right. The idea that tolerace of different views and science could help us to understand the truth were poison to their view. Reagan called upon them to vote for him in order to restore their sense of ownership of the society. He rejected the ideas of Moral Relativism and called for a restoration of Moral Authority based on the bible.

It is this sudden rise of the religious right that creates the illusion that he restored dignity. He brought a sense that the US was absolutely right and that errors of the past were the failings of the liberal position. Manifest destiny was returned to the public's mind.

[trogdor]

19. From a nationalistic standpoint, it was true.

The Carter admin wasn't about flagwaving so much, or outward expressions of patriotism in general. That stuff was as superficial then as it is now. Carter led best by example. Reagan was better at getting people fired up, while ignoring the idiotic things his administration would do from time to time. He was probably the most effective user of the bully pulpit since Franklin Roosevelt.

I think if Reagan had been office on September 11th, we'd feel a lot safer than we did (or still do) under Bush II, regardless of whether we actually were safer. I also kind of doubt he would have went along with going to Iraq, and we would have had OBL's head on a platter by now.

[MadHound]

20. What Reagan "restored" wasn't national pride

It was a jingoistic nationalism that we are still living with today. It is the same sentiment that was prevalent in Nazi Germany, and we saw the results that such a sentiment brought about then. Sad to say, it looks like that sentiment will wreak the same damage here unless we are very careful.