Dean's 2nd column..."A Problem We Must Not Ignore" Health care.

[madfloridian]

http://www.caglecartoons.com/previewColumn.asp?columnID={D9C59831-2708-4DFD-92C9-40076B173C2C}
SNIP..."There are over 43 million Americans who do not have health insurance and the problem is getting worse. Put another way, you could sell out every single game at Yankee Stadium for the next five seasons with only uninsured Americans in attendance.

In the richest, most advanced country in the world, we have to do better. It's simply wrong for sick children to go without seeing a doctor because their parents cannot afford it. It is wrong for a woman to find out she has late-stage breast cancer, because she couldn't afford a mammogram. It is wrong for seniors to have to choose between prescriptions they need and putting food on the table. Above all, it is wrong for America to be the only industrialized country in the world that does not guarantee in one way or another, that all Americans can afford adequate healthcare."

SNIP..."We can do better than this. America can no longer afford to pretend this problem does not exist. As a doctor and former governor, I know there are no easy answers; however, the current course we are on is setting the health care system up for complete collapse. After all, the British, French, Germans, Canadians, Spanish, Greeks, Japanese, Irish, Italians, Israelis, Dutch, Swedes, Norwegians, Finns and even the Costa Ricans have health insurance for all their people. So should we. ...."
Love the reference to the other countries...like old times.
:cry:

[anelson]

1. Bill Clinton started this debate

and we are still fighting the good fight. I wonder how so many other countries could be wrong about such a basic necessity? I am sure the cons will tell us, but will it make any sense? In my mind, medical care is an inalienable human right, not a priviledge. Howard Dean is absolutely correct.

This reminds me of a recent event where an ultra-con guy had a serious heart attack. His son was very comforted by the "terrific medical care" he recieved. I said to him..."good thing he is not poor, huh? If so, he would likely be dead now." I think his son missed my point entirely. Its sad when money defines who lives or dies...

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. Welcome to DU. :^)

[cestmoi]

2. Suggested slogan "In America Lazarus wouldn't have a chance"

Democrats have to make hay with the ethical-religious implications of for-profit healthcare.

Onlookers like me, a Canuck, find it beyond weird that Democrats let Repubs lay claim to religion and its moral high ground. Jesus nor any of his apostles ever charged so much as a sardine to heal the sick. For profit health is unChristian. Period.

Democrats have to start putting Repubs on the defensive, make them defend for-profit healthcare as a Christian.

There is something strange in pysches of those that support murdering doctors providing abortion ostensibly to save fetuses but then when the child is born they look the other way when it comes to providing these souls healthcare.

[madfloridian]

4. Nice post, cestmoi. Love this statement of yours.

QUOTE...."Onlookers like me, a Canuck, find it beyond weird that Democrats let Repubs lay claim to religion and its moral high ground. Jesus nor any of his apostles ever charged so much as a sardine to heal the sick. For profit health is unChristian. Period.

You got it right.

[cestmoi]

6. Thanks.

I really think its terrible that healthcare is run on the profit motive.

I don't know how much Americans really know about our healthcare so I found some links to a few of our hospitals should you be interested in eyeballing the care available under a public health care system as the links include video clips.

Hospitals here keep track of performance so one of the links include these performance ratings.

O'Reilly likes to refer to Canada as Canuckistan which suggests that we are on par with the old soviet system however I think a quick eyeball of some of our hosptials puts that myth to rest.

[cestmoi]

7. Links to some Canadian hospitals.

Here are the links I forgotto post in my above message.

http://www.sickkids.on.ca/AboutHSC/section.asp?s=Photos+of+Sick+Kids&sID=1436

http://www.uhn.ca/tgh/clinical_services_building/index.asp

http://www.uhn.ca/patient/wait_times/?nav=8;8

http://www.uhn.ca/uhn/corporate/oppm/site/corporate/corporate.asp

http://www.uhn.ca/uhn/

http://www.uhn.ca/twh/


http://www.uhn.ca/uhn/firsts/?nav=8;8

http://www.uhn.ca/pmh/

[ibegurpard]

3. Thanks

Madfloridian, you are almost single-handedly reminding everyone everyday of what made Dean such a great candidate...his willingness to tackle tough subjects with a combination of idealism and a willingness to make difficult choices for pragmatism's sake.

[madfloridian]

5. That is why I do it....we all have to "tackle tough subjects" like he does

Thanks. :hi:

[mandyky]

8. Reading the list of countries,

I could almost hear his stump speech. He's marching with healthcare workers today in NY, too.

[madfloridian]

10. This is the only pic from the rally that I can find anywhere.

Only one article,too. Guess it is supposed to be a secret. :evilgrin:

[Commendatori]

9. So let's help the 43 million,

but I am very nervous any time I hear "universal" health care mentioned. "Health care for all" is one thing, but as I understand it, "universal" means "everyone must participate." I do not want to be forced into an HMO when it would be cheaper and more efficient to help the 43 million and leave alone anyone who is happy with what he or she has.

[madfloridian]

11. I don't think that the plan is to be forced.

Kerry's plan is supposedly based on Dean's, and it is incremental and not forced.

[Commendatori]

12. I hope you're right.

I'm not sure, though. Did you ever read Hillary's plan? I saw stuff in that plan that gave me the creeps.

(Edited to add that I haven't enough specifics on Kerry's plan to know for sure what he has in mind, I'm just very nervous about "universal" care)

[cestmoi]

13. Don't believe proganda about universal healthcare.

I don't know how much Americans really know about universal healthcare so I found some links to a few of our Canadian hospitals should you be interested in eyeballing the care available under a public health care system. (The links include video clips and photos which are worth eyeballing)

Hospitals here in Canada keep track of performance so several of the links include these performance reviews.

Universal healthcare is much more efficient than anything provided in the US because it doesn't have a costly insurance bureacracy to factor in and hospitals can pool resources.

Recently a Canadian doctor who had moved to Florida to work as a family doctor came back to Canada to practice as she was fed up with the paperwork and arguning with HMO's about care. Her salary BTW was the same in both countries.

O'Reilly refers to Canada as Canuckistan which suggests that we are on par with the old soviet system however I think a quick eyeball of some of our hosptials puts that myth to rest.

http://www.sickkids.on.ca/AboutHSC/section.asp?s=Photos+of+Sick+Kids&sID=1436

http://www.uhn.ca/tgh/clinical_services_building/index.asp

http://www.uhn.ca/patient/wait_times/?nav=8;8

http://www.uhn.ca/uhn/corporate/oppm/site/corporate/corporate.asp

http://www.uhn.ca/uhn/

http://www.uhn.ca/twh/


http://www.uhn.ca/uhn/firsts/?nav=8;8

http://www.uhn.ca/pmh/

[eridani]

14. So what if you are 'forced'?

You are also 'forced' to pay property taxes directly or indirectly to support your fire department, even if your house has never caught fire. Like the fire department, health care is infrastructure.

You would only be coerced as to the choice of insurer, which would be the government. What you would gain in return is absolutely free choice of any medical provider anywhere, just like they have in Canada. (Not that that will do you any good out in the boonies where doctors are thin on the ground, but that's an entirely separate problem.)

[Commendatori]

15. Because if you are,

you lose your choice of doctor, and my family has been using the same one since the day I was born. You also lose the opportunity to switch doctors if you have a problem with it.

Canadian health care sounds good until you have to wait as long as they do, and as long as your tax dollars fund it, it's not "free." I have quite a few friends in Ontario who drive down to Rochester to pay for what would be "free" because they can't get it in time.

What's wrong with just helping people without insurance and leaving alone those who do? There is no reason that helping 43 million should mean that the other 250 million should have to lose choice, especially if the other 250 million are picking up the tab for the 43.

If I take you out to dinner because you're hungry, should I be forced into my menu choice?

There's no offense or hostility intended with this post, but this is important to me. People who do not need government help shouldn't lose anything but tax dollars to help people who DO need government help.

[eridani]

19. You do NOT lose your choice of doctor

Where do you get this crap about losing choice? American insurers have already taken the choice of provider away from most of us. Canadians have absolutely free choice of doctors. They have far, far more choices than we do. The waits are vastly exaggerated, and in any case, the WA state Health Care for All helpline sends large numbers of Americans to Canada to get seen by doctors there at half price.

Ask the survivors of the 18,000 people in the US who died from being denied health care on financial grounds whether it would bother them to make a few people with more money wait for non-lifethreatening operations like hip replacements.

Last year you did not need 'government help' to put out a fire in your house. You were forced to pay the goverment to put out fires in other people's houses, and that's exactly as it should be. Get over it. Health care is infrastructure too.

[Kanary]

20. I'm afraid you've misunderstood "Universal"

How 'bout thinking in terms of "Medicare for all"?

NOBODY wants to be FORCED into HMO's, and that is a big part of the point. NONE of us HAS to.... we can have the care we want, if we become activists, and press the issue.

You mention making medical care "cheaper and more efficient"...... the way to do that is to include EVERYONE. That's how all those other countries do it.

I suspect you won't like that answer, unfortunately. You seem to have a bias against it. However, if you will really ready up on Universal healthcare, I think you will find your fears unfounded.

Kanary

[pezcore64]

16. i have no insurance

and i just payed 50 bux for a doctors visit and 200 bux for my medication.

god bless america!
haha

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. You are in the wrong state. Come to Maine.