My thought on Reagan and the attitude people are taking toward him...

[Rosco T.]

Never mind his politics.. his accomplishments or lack there of.

There's such a thing as dignity. Both in life and in death.

Unlike Shrubya, he was elected by a significent majority twice. He was popular and had a charm, a charsima about him that was impossible not to see. Did he screw up. Yes. Did he take responsibility. Yes. Compare that to Shrubya.

BUT ALL THAT ASIDE.

Many of you have wives, husbands, children. How would you feel if after your passing, you had people defaming, disparaging you personally, insulting your PERSONAL honor. You wouldn't feel a thing. They will.

Now, every vitrolic PERSONAL insult you throw... imagine the effect it would have on your loved ones.

Criticize the man's policies, but don't degrade THE MAN. Remember the dignity of life must carry over to the dignity of death. Stand above those that will crow and chortle with delight when Clinton passes on.. or those that tried to drag Paul Wellstone thru the mud. I suspect that this great man's passing (and anyone that can win the Presidency legitimacy TWICE has to have some measure of greatness) will bring into even more sharp focus the FAILINGS of Shrubya, there's that old chestnut that is waiting for someone to toss at Shrub..."I knew Ronald Reagan, I admited Ronald Reagan.. and you sir are NO Ronald Reagan"). The eloquence of his speaking ability that was aired over the weekend in contrast with Shrubya stumbling over his words was stark).

Some have already pointed out that at the Normandy Ceremonies, that the world leaders seemed not to want to be seen with Shrubya... they could cover that up by selecting pictures.. BUT WITH A 27/4 and LIVE coverage of the Funeral/Ceremonies.. you'll see the world leaders, past and present, comfort Nancy and the family... and walk away from Shrub... that will be hard to coverup..

Ciritize his acts, but do so with RESPECT, respect for the dignity of an HONESTLY ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THIS COUNTRY. Would you expect any less for yourself?

(flame retardant suit on.... proceed)

[DrWeird]

1. Hey, Hitler was elected too.

I don't see why that makes up for murdering a bunch of people.

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

9. Why do some of us

always feel the need to call our opponents fascists or equated them with Hitler? That kind of stuff is Freeper-like, and beneath us.

[DrWeird]

15. Tell it to the families...

of the people Reagan murdered.

[tom_paine]

16. Well, like a broken clock sometimes, occasionally, that is correct

Don't shoot the messenger because the message is unpleasant.

Similarities of Bush to Hitler:

Demonized/dehumanized opponents
9/11 = Reichstag Fire
PATRIOT ACT = Enabling Acts (the equals signs are metaphoric equality, NOT LITERAL EQUALITY)
Uses government to destroy government
Dislikes Constitutional Law
Rule by Directive, not Legislative
PNAC = Mein Kampf
Bankrolled by (insert nationality) Industrialists

There's more.

Sorry. You are correct that the Hitler comparisons have been overused in the past. Which is a shame because they are right on the money now.

Oh, and lest we forget, Grandpa Prescott Bush laundered Hitler's Millions of Stolen Marks and remained tieed to nazi firms until 1952.

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_Link

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_2

Nah, nothing there, eh?

[katusha]

18. Hitler was not elected

he was appointed chancellor.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitlerdemo.htm

In 1932, hoping to establish a clear government by majority rule, Hindenburg held two presidential elections. Hitler, among others, ran against him. A vote for Hindenburg was a vote to continue the German Republic, while a vote for Hitler was a vote against it. The Nazi party made the most clever use of propaganda, as well as the most extensive use of violence. Bloody street battles erupted between Communists and Nazis thugs, and many political figures were murdered.

In the first election, held on March 13, 1932, Hitler received 30 percent of the vote, losing badly to Hindenburg's 49.6 percent. But because Hindenburg had just missed an absolute majority, a run-off election was scheduled a month later. On April 10, 1932, Hitler increased his share of the vote to 37 percent, but Hindenburg again won, this time with a decisive 53 percent. A clear majority of the voters had thus declared their preference for a democratic republic.

However, the balance of power in the Reichstag was still unstable, lacking a majority party or coalition to rule the government. All too frequently, Hindenburg had to evoke the dictatorial powers available to him under Article 48 of the constitution to break up the political stalemate. In an attempt to resolve this crisis, he called for more elections. On July 31, 1932, the Nazis won 230 out of 608 seats in the Reichstag, making them its largest party. Still, they did not command the majority needed to elect Hitler Chancellor...

<snip>

Meanwhile Schleicher was failing spectacularly in his attempts to form a coalition government, so Hindenburg forced his resignation. But by now, Hindenburg was exhausted by all the intrigue and crisis, and the prospect of civil war had moved the steely field marshal to tears. As much as he hated to do so, he seemed resigned to offering Hitler a high government position. Many people were urging him to do so: the industrialists who were financing Hitler, the military whose connections Hitler had cultivated, even Hindenburg's son, whom some historians believe the Nazis had blackmailed. The last straw came when an unfounded rumor swept through Berlin that Schleicher was about to attempt a military coup, arrest Hindenburg, and establish a military dictatorship. Alarmed, Hindenburg wasted no time offering Hitler the Chancellorship, thinking it was a last resort to save the Republic.

[russian33]

2. How did he 'take responsibility'?

I am just curious. From everything I heard and read, he did the exact opposite.

[BurtWorm]

10. He did do the exact opposite.

Jimmy Carter said Reagan seemed constitutionally unable to accept blame for anything wrong that went on on his watch. This was just after Reagan blamed Carter for the number of Marines (some 240) killed in Lebanon during a terrorist attack, supposedly because of a decrease in the military budget during Carter's term.

[Tempest]

23. Reagan blamed everything on someone else

He blamed Iran/Contra on Congress.

He blamed AIDS on gays even though a majority of the world's AIDS population were straights.

He blamed Congress and the press for everything.

Reagan never took responsibility for his actions.

[Walt Starr]

3. I had no respect for the evil old fuck in life

I damn sure don't have any now.

[SudieJD]

33. Ditto!!!

Just because he's dead, that doesn't make him any better than when he was in life. Guess you don't remember "Regannomics" or what he had to say to anyone that protested his policy? I couldn't stand him in life and his death doesn't elevate him to me.

Sudie

[ibegurpard]

4. My father was not the president

He was not a public figure who was responsible for policies detrimental to this country and to the world. He did not end his life with the very best in medical care while other families struggling with the same disease are bankrupted financially and spiritually by it. Reagan is getting FAR less vitriol than he deserves.

[gWbush is Mabus]

5. Fuck Reeegan and fuck Bush

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

6. I think that was well said...

you hit it right on the head. Whether you agreed with his politics, at the end of the day he was a good man. We can criticize his policies, without disgracing him and his family. I don't think it's crazy to suggest he was a man of respect, and at least he didn't have the hubris that Dubya does.

[Arugula Latte]

17. Do you think the families of dead Central Americans would agree with you?

That "good man" had many innocents killed. Just what exactly is your definition of a "good man"? Someone who sits on his hands and lets AIDs mow down thousands because they "deserved" it? Is that your definition? ... Just wondering.

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

24. I don't know,

I was just trying to gave the man the benefit of the doubt. Truly, many of his policies were wrong, but I think we should separate the politics from the man. I just say we honor his best, while also selling the truth about his failings, never making it personal.

[Tempest]

21. Reagan was NOT a good man

Reagan hated the poor, and it showed in his policies which hurt the poor.

Reagan hated blacks, and that was one of the reasons he left the Democrat party.

Reagan was an evil, mass murdering son-of-a-bitch. Period.

[mitchum]

36. HE WAS NOT A GOOD MAN!

You CANNOT seperate his politics from his "character"

[rfranklin]

7. Screw Reagan and screw his bitch of a wife...

They deserve all the Vitriol we can buy at the drugstore.

[Malva Zebrina]

27. Nancy Reagan used to wear designer clothes

believing she did not have to pay for them because she was, in effect, advertising for the designers by wearing their clothes. She thought she was doing them a favor by wearing their creations and they had some nerve charging her for them.

They had to go through some tortuous bill collecting in order to get paid for the clothing they sold to Nancy. Often they had to wait for a very long time for their money.

Nevertheless, she did manage to always look realy good--neat, and coordinated with a good sense of her own style.

Now he,
Ronnie, is dead at the age of 93, and all of sudden, we are to think this family and this rather accomplished con man who did some pretty evil things while president, is from heaven rather than from hell.

Death does that to some people.

[Skittles]

29. some DUers are giving kudos to Nancy for supporting stem cell research

like she would really give a shit if it didn't affect her piece of shit husband.

[Malva Zebrina]

31. well, it is rather ironic

because her husband refused to do anything to help those victims of AIDS and ignored them and their plight because he thought they sinned and therefore deserved to die of AIDS.

But, she is old now--and she is bent and frail but still putting on a
face--she is, I think, 81 years old and has the look of a vain woman who in her old age, desperately used bo tox treatements to make her appear younger.

It is axiomatic that the church has done everything it can, historically, to prevent scientific benefits, medical as well as others, to mankind with all they have . They probably are responsible for the deaths of millions of human beings due to that type of repression. and we see more of it, over and over--in our age it is stem cell research.

But that is another subject.

Such is Hollywood--here is Nancy now and she is quite frail and vulnerable looking here, catching my pity.

[sadiesworld]

8. Actually his "charm" is what made his horrendous policies possible.

Hopefully, the whore press will not be able to convince voters that * is "charming" (likable, if you prefer) this time around.

[Bjornsdotter]

11. Respect?

Hi,

"Ciritize his acts, but do so with RESPECT, respect for the dignity of an HONESTLY ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THIS COUNTRY. Would you expect any less for yourself?"


Sorry, I don't happen to believe that respect and being elected honestly necessarily go hand in hand. Respect is earned through our actions.

Anything I say about anyone, I would say to their face....that's how I am. To Reagan....I would tell him.."You weren't that great". I stand by that whether he is dead or alive....I WILL NOT make him a saint for doing something every living thing eventually does...die.

Cheers,
Kim

[qwertyMike]

12. Perhaps if I take care...

not to do do anything evil or dishonorable in my life . . . .

"Many of you have wives, husbands, children. How would you feel if after your passing, you had people defaming, disparaging you personally, insulting your PERSONAL honor. You wouldn't feel a thing. They will."

[andyjackson1828]

14. What I remember about Regan...

Republicans always talk about Federalism and States Rights, but only when it suits them. Reagan and then Secy of Transportation Elizabeth Dole were behind linking federal highway funds to states raising their drinking age to 21. It really screwed up my drinking. Bunch o' Hypocrites!

[PretzelWarrior]

13. I agree. some of these over the top people

must have serious emotional issues. the reason I say so is even if they felt personally harmed by some policy of Reagan's....the guy hasn't been in office for 16 years!! He has been out of the public eye for about 10 or so years. If you haven't gained perspective and "let it go" to some degree in that amount of time...that is sad.

I think discussing the negative parts of his legacy is fair game. But saying "F*CK Reagan and his B!tch wife" is just weird. It becomes even weirder when people then link to FREEP board threads that are of the same tenor and we say "MAN, these peope are SICK!"

Well, they aren't really that much different from you and me. Heck, you can find common cause with the Iraqis and see they are people why can't we let it be more of a civil debate about what Reagan's legacy was?

[Mr_Scarecrow]

19. I remember a woman who came to my college

and talked about her torture at the hands of the Contras. Rape, mutilation, murder of family members. She was not a Sandinista, just someone caught up in the U.S. foreign policy that you so politely want to discuss. Get a copy of "Salvador" and refresh your memory of those times.

I have no problem with the vitriol spewed at that president.

[John_Shadows_1]

20. Did those people who died in El Salvador at the hands of....

... Reagan's death squads die with dignity?

[stopbush]

22. Honestly elected? Are you kidding? How about "treasonously?"

That's right.

Reagan's campaign *negotiated with Iran* to keep those 52 hostages prisoner until AFTER the election. Reagan promised to sell Iran tow missiles if they complied, which they did.

It is against the law of the land for ANYONE to negotiate with foreign governments unless they are our *official* elected representatives or their agents. Ergo, the Reagan campaign's negotiations with Iran were treason, plain and simple. Just becasue the public didn't know about the treason doesn't mean it wasn't treason.

Why did they do it? Because they feared an October Surprise, that's why! Had the hostages been released pre-election, Carter would have won in a slam dunk.

So, please tell me, how was Reagan *legally* elected in 1980?

[BeFree]

25. Ahhh, yes, the memories keep a' coming

It was a stolen election, no question. As soon as Raygun took the oath, the hostages were on a plane out of Iran.

I almost feel sorry for RR, he's meeting his maker. I don't think the maker is very happy.

I wish I could think of something good to say about RR, but there really is nothing good to say, is there?

[Skittles]

28. he made Osama and Saddam the men they are

look who is paying for that. The very idea that I should show any respect whatsoever to that miserable SOB is laugable.

[Skittles]

26. that evil bastard trashed the country for eight years

He ushered in the decade of greed and selfishness that affects us to this day. Now I'm supposed to show some respect? F*** THAT.

[mitchum]

30. The man's ACTIONS are what defame him, not the words...

of his detractors.
He was a stupid and destructive man.

[bluestateguy]

32. I endorse your statement

I have criticized Reagan's record for 15 years (I was only 13 when he left office), and I don't think it will kill anyone to lay off for 3 or 4 days.

And we'll see how respectful the Freepers are when Carter and Clinton's day comes.

[BiggJawn]

35. I don't CARE how they do it over in Freepsville!

LET them pour it on Jimmy and the Big Dawg. in fact, you wanna know something? If they DON'T unload on Bill and Jimmy, I'd be worried, because that's just not like them.

It'd be easy to be "respectful" of Ronaldus Ray-guns Rex if his policies would vannish, and all the people killed in his name would pop up out of the grave, but you know what? Ain't gonna happen just because he's gone to his dirt nap.

[nomaco-10]

34. I've been off line for over a week....

and I can't believe some of the crap I've been reading here. Ronald RAYGUN, fake, phony Hollywood whore; "I'll stay in Tinsel Town making B grade movies for the war effort thank you very much, instead of participating in D Day" himself like other notables like Jimmy Stewart, Clark Gable and many others. He was then and still is, nothing more than a political pansy and the bonified father of the bogus "family values" platform that has been the downfall and division in this country for the last three decades, both at home and abroad.

Unbelievable that he is getting any kudos or respect for living to the ripe old age of 93 and being the single most revered icon of the neo conservative party that has taken over and ruined this country for the last two plus decades. He gets sympathy and calls for dignity and decorum in regards to his passing, you gotta be kidding me!

He was the father of neo conservatism and deserves no respect or well wishes from anyone professing to be a true democrat. So, now he rests in peace whatever god he believed in. How telling is it that he died a gibbering idiot in diapers after all the heartbreak and havoc he reeked in this country. The homeless, the veterans of Viet Nam and mentally retarded he turned out of their confines to root hog our die under bridges, the middle class families he ruined with "reagonomics".

Gee, I'm really sorry if I can't muster up any sympathy for his passing. He changed the face of American politics forever, but not in a good way, just remember that before you decide to go all misty eyed and nostalgic.

[dogman]

37. It's not the man, it's the monster that I have no respect for.

Everything you dislike about B$$$ was planted by this monster. The reason B$$$ is so arrogant about his misdeeds is because he has seen it can be done.

[CBHagman]

38. We're all going to die, and some will suffer dreadful illness

That does not automatically confer virtue upon our actions in life.

I have sympathy for Nancy Reagan, but I refuse to honor what was essentially an extremely corrupt and short-sighted administration headed by her husband.

It's creepy to listen to and read efforts to rewrite history in order to glorify Ronald Reagan. The claim that he was the most popular president of recent times has been debunked (check out the actual approval ratings) but nevertheless lives on. The fall of the Soviet Union is credited to him, with little said about the decades of effort expended by those who came before. Reagan is credited with lowering taxes, but few recall that Social Security taxes, which comprise a larger part of the average working person's paycheck than do federal income taxes, went up rapidly and dramatically following the income tax cuts.

In short, I feel the glowing depiction of Reagan's presidency is a fraud, and even memories of his so-called charm leaves me cold. He had a certain artificiality that always put me off. Certainly he could say the right thing when the occasion called for it (i.e., in the aftermath of the Challenger tragedy, the beginning of martial law in Poland, etc.), but even these efforts were rather guarded and packaged.

[Kickin_Donkey]

39. There's a big difference between Reagan ...

and, say, my parents. Reagan was a public figure; in fact, he was in the most public position in the nation.

Reagan's actions as a public figure cannot be separated from him. He can and must be judged on his actions.

Morever, 99% of the anger directed at Reagan are a direct result of his actions.

So quit the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou admonishments and stop telling the rest of us how we should act and feel regarding Reagan's death.