If the U.S. is hopelessly, incurably conservative...

[Speck Tater]

what then?

If the U.S. population swings far enough that liberals become a persecuted minority then what is left to love about our country?

If the middle class is destroyed by outsourcing,
If the Bill of Rights is pushed aside in favor of repression,
If the land is scarred by unrestrained corporate exploitation,
If the air is poisoned by industrial pollution,
If the government becomes a Christian theocracy,

wouldn't it just be better to leave this piece of land to the "Theocratic Muricans" and find another piece of land somewhere else in the world to call home?

What would make "America" worth staying and fighting for if everything that makes America great has been systematically destroyed?

I'm a seventh generation American but I have to face the fact that the time may come when I'd be better off somewhere other than in a neo-dark age theocracy.

What's your breaking point? What would it take to send you fleeing for the border to escape the repression at "home"?

[Commendatori]

1. Both sides could present me with breaking points

The Republicans hover over one of mine on religious issues alone.

However, if we ever get to the point where taxation reaches or exceeds levels in Europe, I'm gone. If I'm going to pay Europe-level taxes, I'll take Europe-level services and culture, thanks.

[denverbill]

9. Do you think Democrats just want to tax you for no particular reason?

#1, we pay nowhere near the tax rate of Sweden or some other European countries
#2, Democrats, myself included, don't enjoy paying taxes any more than anyone else does
#3, if taxes do go up under Democrats, it's likely because a new 'service' is being added.

I'd gladly pay higher taxes for guaranteed national health care.

I will not gladly pay higher taxes so Dick Cheney can pay less.

[Commendatori]

11. And your post relates to mine how, exactly?

You write:

"#1, we pay nowhere near the tax rate of Sweden or some other European countries"

I know. All I was saying is that if it ever gets to that rate, I would prefer to live over there.

"#2, Democrats, myself included, don't enjoy paying taxes any more than anyone else does"

Read my username and then tell me exactly why this statement of yours needed to be brought to my attention.

"#3, if taxes do go up under Democrats, it's likely because a new 'service' is being added."

"Likely" means nothing - but even if true, that doesn't mean I'll approve of it. Do you approve of every social program and every service the federal government offers (or, for that matter, that the Democrats have instituted)?

For the record, I'm all for services, but I'm not all for the federal government managing every single one of them. I believe social services should be handled by states whenever possible. If you honestly think every social program currently handled by the feds is a.) impossible to handle at a state level, and b.) being handled efficiently with a minimum of waste and administrative cost, then on this issue we have nothing to talk about.

"I'd gladly pay higher taxes for guaranteed national health care."

If that's what it would take, as long as pork and waste was cut, that would be fine. Guaranteed, though - NOT so-called 'universal.' I believe that those who need help should be helped, those that are happy with what they have should be left alone and not forced into any new program.

"I will not gladly pay higher taxes so Dick Cheney can pay less."

Agreed, but I don't want to pay higher taxes so that we can sustain current levels of waste and pork.

We probably aren't that far apart overall, but all I was saying is that if my taxes ever get to European levels, I'd rather live in Europe. What the hell was wrong with that? Where did I say that Democrats tax us for fun? Are we honestly to the point where even the slightest (implied, no less) criticism of use of tax dollars gets one treated like a Freeper now?

[BlueJazz]

2. I was born in Australia but Damnit, I'd love to stay here....

and fight to get back our country but (again) if Bush is elected
for a second term AND the house and senete is solid Repugs....
I just don't know.....I just don't know....

[Speck Tater]

3. Out of curiosity

What makes the U.S. preferable to Australia for you?

It seems to me the land down under has a lot going for it.

[BlueJazz]

8. Well, I've been here since the age of 8 and have fought .....

...many a battle (Getting out the Vote, trying to inform people, Etc)
I suppose I just hate to give up America to the very folks I've fought my whole life, PLUS...ironically, the very policies of the Repugs has also hurt my wallet so I'm caught in a Catch 22....

[DNA]

4. I have a problem with your premise

I don't think this country is "incurably conservative." I believe people have been erroneously labeling themselves conservative in this country and/or refusing to identify with the liberal label, but that's because they're mistaken about the labels. In fact, most people identify with liberal stands on issues, membership in liberal parties and groups surpasses membership in conservative parties and groups, voters overwhelmingly voted for one of the two liberal candidates for president in 2000, and, now, there is a tremendous increase in people identifying with the liberal label and reading liberal political material (both books and magazines and websites). None of this sounds like a country that is incurably conservative. In any event, I don't think the people who call themselves conservative are conservative. Many of them are simply right-wing fanatics. Some are fascists even.

[I_like_chicken]

6. I agree

I think another problem in our country is that many people vote on canidates based on character, not ideology. That was Reagan's strong selling point, his character. In order for liberals to excel in this country, we just need to put up strong canidates who have that winning personality.

[Speck Tater]

7. A few days ago there was a post

about a RW author who was claiming that America's "flirtation with liberalism" was a passing fad and that we were returning to our conservative Christian roots. His prediction was that the country would become more Christain and more conservative for the immediate future.

My scenario is a kind of delayed reaction to that post, which is lost in the murky sludge at the bottom of the old posts barrel by now.

[Shredr]

5. First of all

Who says the country is hopelessly conservative? I still cling to the (naive?) belief that Americans are generally decent, intelligent, compassionate people, i.e. liberals.
If the country did become the horrific Christian thocracy you discribed, I'd say we coup and throw over the government, revolt, fight, before we lose our country.

[physioex]

10. Most of the countries in the world hate the american policies...

So even if this country has lost its brains, hopefully other countries can help keep it in check...But that is the last line of defense, not the first...

[oneighty]

12. Nonsense

If we were 'one man one vote' we would rarely elect a conservative 'God- Like' person to president.

Blame the red welfare states.

IMHO.

180

[Crachet2004]

13. I won't give them the satisfaction of my leaving...

The tide comes in, and the tide goes out...the conservatives have seen their high-water mark for the time being, and we all know it.

I'm looking for a backlash, like what happened under FDR, after Hoover. The GOP under Bush has betrayed all their own bedrock beliefs...and are leading us to ruin. They will be laughed at if they try to run campaigns on fiscal restraint (given Bush's budgets), more tax-cuts (for the rich), and family values (after the BDSM show in Iraq).

What are the idiots going to run on? They believe in God and hate Gays? Somehow I think America wants more.

America wants guaranteed healthcare, energy independence, a military that stays at home, social security, and so on. Americans want the Big Story to be the World Series, or the Super Bowl, not OBL and company. OBL should be in the bag by now...the GOP is even weak on this front-the Terror (oh my!) front.

Their whole damn game is wearing thin-and the death of Reagan, as others have indicated, puts a very sharp point on what his 'Legacy' has really been.

[htuttle]

14. This country currently presents a threat to the entire planet

I stand a much better chance of doing something about it here than I do from New Zealand.

:shrug:

[sendero]

15. It is a self-correcting problem....

... as conservatives get too much power, they inevitably abuse it. Leading to disfavor and more people voting liberal. This, I claim, is already happening on a large scale. Bush* has just gone too far and does not realize how far out of the 'mainstream' he has drifted.

On the other hand, if after a time liberals start drifting too close to the "government can fix every problem" school of thought (which they will), people will swing back to the conservatives.

This is what has always happened and always will.

[lanparty]

16. Liberals are an oppressed MAJORITY!!!!

They just don't vote in such high percentages as conservatives.