Is Clinton a failure?

[immune2irony]

Before you kill me, think about it:

Clinton is an incredible man, who is a titan compared to me. But what did he do as president? How did he make his mark? Will our great personal comfort, safety and prosperity in the 1990's be any more meaningful than the Roaring 20's?

When you compare him against Reagan, who was dumb as a stump and a complete tool, Clinton comes out as the smaller man. This isn't fair. Why is Reagan lionized for his moronic greedy policies and lame jokes but Clinton is regarded as a sideshow in history?

Please make me feel better about Clinton.

[Servo300]

1. Clinton is

a man of great capabilities, and serious flaws.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

2. PowerBrokers

.. inside the Beltway.

Reagan was a yes man.

Clinton was a I'm the man.

'We were not pleased'.

[ikojo]

3. I really think much of the right-wing hatred directed toward

Clinton is due to the fact that he came from the "wrong side of the tracks." People of his class are not *supposed* to be president. That position is intended for the Bushes and Kerrys of the world not a kid who spent part of his childhood in a trailer.

[MikeG]

4. Eliminated the deficit. Eight years of prosperity.

Reagan is lionized by journalists bought and paid for by Republicans.
No thinking, honest man has lionized Reagan.

[lancdem]

5. I'm pretty sure Clinton will not be regarded as a sideshow

I think this whole Reagasm is knocking things out of perspective. Wait till Clinton's book kicks ass in a couple of weeks.

[KissMyAsscroft]

6. Clinton didn't abide by the mantra...

"God, Guns and Gays"....therefore me wasn't a ture Murican.

Fuck em. I don't care.

[kaitykaity]

7. Bill Clinton is and always will be larger than life.

Historians will judge him differently than the Republican
Taliban Jihadists, and it is their view of him that is
ascendant right now.

[Lefty Pragmatist]

8. He gave us a blueprint for a new center-left majority.

Before Clinton, our party was mired in hyphenated-American divisions and bickering interests. Clinton demonstrated that the strength of our common ideas is far greater than the strength of our individual grievances. He was the first Democratic optimist with any serious clout within the party since Bobby Kennedy. He combined progressive ideas with a patriotic belief in America. It's still fun and heartening to listen to him speak.

The next generation of Democratic leaders will be colored by Clinton's upbeat feistiness in the same way that the previous generation was colored by Vietnam's self-doubt and refusal to enunciate a strong defense of our core beliefs. I consider him to have been a great success.

[mountainvue]

9. "Dumb as a stump?"

Your name isn't Christopher Hitchens, is it?

[Hamlette]

10. history is written by the victors

and the loud mouth bullies at Fox et al.

[keithyboy]

77. Kosovo, Bosnia, ...victories for freedom but no credit.

Ask the folks in Ireland if they think Clinton is a failure. I don't think Clinton was about "failing" or being lionized. I think he honestly wanted to make a positive difference for peace in the world and prosperity and civility at home. However, the Republicans just would not abide him and they won't give him credit for balancing the budget, triming welfare, and puching family-friendly changes in the workplace. the Republicans only talk about "family values" others try to live them.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vickers]

12. Once this temporary RW insanity passes, and it will, he will be judged

fairly.

Not perfect, but, with history taking a look at arm's length, his tenure will be looked on favorably, particularly when highlighted by the folks who bookended him.

[pinto]

13. Money item: Reagan: deficit was tripled. Clinton: historic surplus.

[AP]

14. You didn't see those pictures of Clinton on 5th Ave near union sq, did you

?

[lancdem]

18. What pictures?

[AP]

26. These pictures

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1738524

[Media_Lies_Daily]

64. That feeling of overall well-being is EXACTLY what we're missing today.

[hippywife]

15. I don't feel very good about him myself.

He had a huge responsibility to this country on his shoulders. His real failure was in not protecting the legacy that the Dem to follow him could ride into the WH on. He failed to control his basest natures in order to insure a succession for those who followed him into office. While I don't think he should have necessarily been pursected to the extent that he did, he hasn't suffer the backlash for his actions as much as the people have by giving the religious right a foot in the door.

That and the fact that NAFTA has caused so much suffering not just in the loss of jobs here but in the displacement of so many indigenous people in Mexico from their only livlihood...their land.

I can't help but think, too, that much the prosperity of the 90's was unnaturally propped on the high tech bubble which was bound to burst because of investments made against a clear lack of profits or much hope of ever providing any.

[kaitykaity]

19. I hate to remind you, but he did provide a legacy.

Al Gore won in 2000.

Sometimes it's funny how people forget that.

[hippywife]

21. By a mere whisker.

Funny how sometimes people forget that or try to conveniently blame that on other factors other than the Clinton legacy or the fact that the Dems can't seem to run anyone who energizes the electorate the way it needs to be energized. The only thing that will energize them this time is that Bush is the worst president ever.

[kaitykaity]

22. You stated he didn't provide a legacy, and I proved

that he did.

It is only because the Thugs are base criminals that
Gore isn't president today. By any fair, full, and legal
count of the votes, Gore won Florida by a SIGNIFICANT
margin.

So please go peddle this anti-Clinton bullshit elsewhere.

'Kay?

[hippywife]

25. If he had provided a strong legacy

Gore wouldn't have sought to distance himself from it and would have had a much more comfortable lead that couldn't have been overcome by the factors in Florida, let alone the loss of his homestate. It was his behaviour and failure to control himself that was the rallying cry for the religious right to storm the election comfortably.

[kaitykaity]

28. Gore distanced himself because Gore was a fool.

Gore ran a bad campaign, and he still won the election.
I don't know why I'm bothering. I'm really tired of seeing
right-wing talking points ("he couldn't win his home state")
on this board.

Clinton made mistakes, but his mistakes pale in comparison
to Bush's. If you want to go back there and refight
the blow job, you go right ahead. You're wasting your time.

Bill Clinton's book is going to sell millions and millions
of copies. He's going to help get John Kerry elected to the
White House.

Look forward. Stop looking back.

[hippywife]

33. I'm just answering the question

according to how I viewed the events that unfolded. I'm not the one getting all defensive and mad about it. Or being an apologist for his faults. He put out the welcome mat for the RW that was poised to pounce on him. Lack of discipline and foresight.

And I am far from right wing. Much farther from it than Clinton, in fact.

[kaitykaity]

38. Calling me a "Clinton apologist" is a right-wing talking point.

Calling me defensive and mad isn't getting your argument
anywhere either.

So I guess the right wing is blameless in their jihad
against Clinton, eh? Their $70 million continual, unending
investigation of Bill and Hillary that uncovered nothing
except this personal failing?

You said he didn't provide a legacy. He did--Al Gore
won the 2000 election. So you were wrong. Yet, as usual,
you stand by your assertion as if it were not wrong.

Gee where have I seen that kind of behavior before?

[hippywife]

43. Where have you seen that kind of behaviour before?

From people independent enough to see the big picture maybe?

I agree that the persecution that ensued was ridiculous. I think his private sexual life is his and Hillary's business but he knew that he had a reputation going in, and true or not, they were going to be watching and waiting for the opportunity they needed. He gave it to them.

Again, not saying it was right to hunt him like a dog and hang him out to dry, just saying that he could have had enough discipline to at least waited until he was out of office and his successor securely ensconsed in the WH. If he had, then there wouldn't have been the opportunity to call the 2000 election results into question in the first place because a Dem would have been the winner by a margin that would have overcome the dirty dealing that took place in Florida. And there never would have been the $70M spent on that ridiculous Salem witch trial.

And I actually worked for Kucinich as regional coordinator in my state. That's how much of a RW freeper I am. Too bad people can't express, civily, a difference of opinion without the flames going up.

[kaitykaity]

49. Sticking by this "lack of legacy" assertion

has nothing to do with being independent-minded and
everything to do with being narrow-minded.

Yes, Bill Clinton screwed up. But is failing pales to
Bush's failings. When Bill Clinton lied, nobody died.
If you want to harp on this failing, shared by John
Kennedy and Franklin Roosevelt and many other men in
power, you go right ahead. I have to remind you that
Hillary has known about Bill Clinton's penchant for
skirt-chasing, and she still loves him. To me, it is
no one else's business but theirs. Why don't you take your
cue from Senator Clinton?

And to put this whole thing into a relevent perspective,
Clinton was fanatical in his pursuit of Al Qaeda and
terrorism. He prevented the Millenium bomb plot and a
couple of other plots. Clarke, Reno, and Tenet "shook
the trees" and kept us safe from the people who wanted to
hurt us.

Now tell me again why I should care about this?

[hippywife]

52. I don't deny that many presidents have shared this failing,

and that Bush's failings are much greater and more horrifying. And I agree that it should be nobody's business but theirs. However, he knew they were out to get him and he gave the religious RW fanatics that the BFEE had been preening all the opening they needed to tear him down and everyone associated with him. That's why you should care.

Is it fair? No, but it can't be denied that was the event that caused the election to be so close. They used it to rally their base and it worked. As for Florida, they got away with great treachery and felonious behaviour but there could have and should have been a greater margin that would have negated all their underhandedness.

[kaitykaity]

56. No, it was not "the" event. Not even close.

The media's going soft on Bush had a great deal to
do with how close it was. If you look at comparable
statistics, Gore was covered negatively much more than
Bush was. Bush's AWOL story was ignored, as was the
Harken Energy matter.

Yes, Clinton knew they were out to get him, but if they had
not been willing to abuse their power in such a heinous
way, with patently illegal tactics such as leaks from
the special prosecutor's office to the media, they would
not have been able to spring the perjury trap on him, and
we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You are expecting perfection out of an imperfect human
being, and you're just not going to find it. I'm just
glad you are willing to admit there were other factors
involved in the situation.

[hippywife]

60. No, just expecting

a little short-term discipline for long-term gain. And I work at a place that is very fundie Christian and RW, where people are huddled around their radios all afternoon listening to Rush, Hannity, and Snow along with all the other local RW AM radio luminaries and think people tell terrible lies about GW. (I live in Tulsa for pete's sake...the town that Oral Roberts took by storm and can't see how the populations supports the number of churches that it does. It's seriously big business here.) I see on a daily basis how their minds work and for them, and most freepers, it always comes back to one thing and one thing only...Clinton. If he had only exercized a little more discipline for just a little longer or hadn't lied about it, they wouldn't have shit to hang their hat on and he would have beat them at their own idiotic game.

[kaitykaity]

63. Oh you poor thing.

I'm being sincere. I'm sorry I was so hard on you. I wouldn't
be able to handle being in that environment. I'd either lose
my temper or go out of my mind.

It wouldn't matter. If it hadn't been the blow job, it would
have been something else. They never let facts get in the way
of their hatred. They hated Clinton from day one. They never
saw him as legitimate because of the Perot factor in the '92
election.

[hippywife]

65. Well,

it was good talking to you Kaity. We hashed out our opinions and ended up none the worse for it, as it should be.

Goodnight! :)

[kaitykaity]

66. Thanks. Good talking to you, too.

CU around the board.

;)

[hippywife]

69. BTW,

I'm totally jealous of where you live compared to where I do. I jsut placed an order for bumper stickers and buttons from the Peace Project in Arcata, Ca and they included a copy of the PeaceWorker newspaper out of your neck of the woods. Yes, I'm jealous! :)

[Justice]

92. If it hadn't been the blow job, it would have been something else

sorry to jump into the discussion (after it is over), but that is the truest statement I've read in along time.

It is up there with when clinton lied, nobody died.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

70. The backers of the "Arkansas Project" would have used anything,...

...and pretty much did, to get Clinton into a bad position. I find myself wondering about Monica Lewinsky and what her role in the White House really was. I just found it extremely interesting that her main "buddy". Linda Tripp, was constantly trying to feed information to the press to fan the flames. Linda Trip was later discovered to have worked for a clandestine military unit, and had been recommended by the Poppy Bush White House for continued employment in the White House.

Read the book, "The Hunting of the President" by Conason and Lyons...you'll be amazed at the information they were able to put together on the "Arkansas Project". Of particular interest are the recollections of Gennifer Flowers and Paula Jones, who were bought and paid for by the Project, and how those recollections square up against the truth.

[catzies]

42. Gore's biggest campaign mistake was not running on their record

so he ran on piety. Why the hell else would he have picked Lieberman?

I would have had a lot more respect for Gore (and I voted for him) if he'd run on the strengths of the accomplishments of their two terms.

You'rew wrong about Clinton's behaviour doing him in; that's a thin reason for the 8 years of irrational witch hunts we had to pay for. They were gonna get him no matter what. Their hatred of him was beyond all reasonable proportions. After all, Starr's report was supposed to be about Whitewater, but that didn't stick and it was barely mentioned and no one even much noticed. So they dug and dug and dug until they were satisfied with the lurid details. It took them years, and cost us millions, instead of letting the man do his job. And public polls were in his favor, both during impeachment and when he left office.

We have tremendous double standards at work here. Nobody died when Clinton lied.

[catzies]

46. Gore's biggest campaign mistake was not running on their record

Gore's biggest campaign mistake was not running on their record so he ran on piety. Why the hell else would he have picked Lieberman?

I would have had a lot more respect for Gore (and I voted for him) if he'd run on the strengths of the accomplishments of their two terms.

You'rew wrong about Clinton's behaviour doing him in; that's a thin reason for the 8 years of irrational witch hunts we had to pay for. They were gonna get him no matter what. Their hatred of him was beyond all reasonable proportions. After all, Starr's report was supposed to be about Whitewater, but that didn't stick and it was barely mentioned and no one even much noticed. So they dug and dug and dug until they were satisfied with the lurid details. It took them years, and cost us millions, instead of letting the man do his job. And public polls were in his favor, both during impeachment and when he left office.

We have tremendous double standards at work here. Nobody died when Clinton lied.

[bunk76]

34. The election was ...

not lost, but stolen in Florida by Jeb and the other group of felons.

[hippywife]

36. For a national election

the margin was miniscule, hence the ability for the criminals to conceal and carry out their treachery.

[indigobusiness]

45. A whisker in a rigged and tainted election.

A fair tally of the intent of the voters would have widened the margin, considerably.

[mopinko]

23. who knew

"He failed to control his basest natures in order to insure a succession for those who followed him into office. "

in all of human history, and primate history, to boot, a blow job here and there was a perk of the job, not an impeachable offense.

and as far as the tech bubble, many tech companies did and still do make a lot of money. all such major economic shifts REQUIRE a little irrational exuberance.

[hippywife]

51. It was more than a "little"

irrational exuberance. There were too many people set on riding the gravy train and pesonally milking it for everything they could get without taking into account they had much stiffer competition overseas. It's the era of selfish, short-term profit-taking for personal gain.

[mopinko]

53. i don't think we are talking about the same thing

i'm talking about a tech industry that made it possible for us to be here chatting today. fools rushed in, some made money and some lost money.
"milking it for everything"? what does that mean? aren't you entitled to profit from your investments? oh, i forgot, for some people only poor democrats are good democrats.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

50. NAFTA was all David Rockefeller...

... and the major banks of New York seeking cash flow on their billion dollar loans to Mexico, who threatened to default on them. David Rockefeller was the "de facto" US ambassador to Mexico to get NAFTA through and Clinton was locked into it by Poppy Bush when Poppy signed the "fast track" deal for NAFTA to kick in 6 months after he signed it. I remember it well, as I subscribed to US News and World Report for 15 years until the mid-90's.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

16. Incredible. Now let's blame Clinton for the best eight-year economic....

...run in U. S. history. Right. Should have thought of that myself.

[mopinko]

17. i think we will always wonder

what he would have accomplished if he had been allowed to govern. maybe no one is "allowed" to govern. maybe great leaders surmount all. but i think the post about the class thing has a lot to do with what happened to him. he was the victim of some of the dirtiest political machinations ever.

[Bill Wade]

20. Well, to the poor people of the US, he was a failure.

But, what president hasn't been? :(

[Trajan]

74. Isnt it true ...

That MORE people left the poverty rolls, and more of those increased their incomes, and that those incomes were the HIGHEST for the WIDEST population that this country had even known ? ..

EVer ? ..

I think you are shortchanging Clinton by ignoring these facts ...

Is there some special reason for this ?

[RummyTheDummy]

80. Funny

I know plenty of "poor people" who think quite the opposite. Be careful not to paint with too broad a brush.

[wyldwolf]

86. That is an example of a LEFTWING talking point against Clinton

What Bush I did...



What Clinton did...



Under Clinton, EVERYONE was better off.

[dumpster_baby]

24. Clinton was one hell of a Republican, er, Democrat, er , Republicrat

he failed to do anything for Americans in the health care arena, and he sold out our job base to 3rd world immigrants and to corporate outsourcing, just like Bush. Gee, I cannot seem to find much good in that....

[lancdem]

27. Actually, that health care for kids plan was passed

when he was president. But I wish comprehensive health care had been enacted. That wasn't all his his fault, though.

[Dropkick]

59. Clinton's health care plans...

...were torpedoed by partisan politics again and again. He spent a huge amount of effort trying to get his reforms through congress, only to be defeated by partisan politics. The first bill he presented (near the beginning of his first term) was sunk because not ONE SINGLE repug voted for it, even those who had earlier indicated that they'd support it.

Read this site for a rundown on Clinton's efforts at health-care reform, and then tell me he is responsible for the failure of health-care reform in the '90's.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/may96/background/health_debate_page2.html

<snip>
December 2, 1993 - Leading conservative operative William Kristol privately circulates a strategy document to Republicans in Congress. Kristol writes that congressional Republicans should work to "kill" -- not amend -- the Clinton plan because it presents a real danger to the Republican future: Its passage will give the Democrats a lock on the crucial middle-class vote and revive the reputation of the party. Nearly a full year before Republicans will unite behind the "Contract With America," Kristol has provided the rationale and the steel for them to achieve their aims of winning control of Congress and becoming America's majority party. Killing health care will serve both ends. The timing of the memo dovetails with a growing private consensus among Republicans that all-out opposition to the Clinton plan is in their best political interest. Until the memo surfaces, most opponents prefer behind-the-scenes warfare largely shielded from public view. The boldness of Kristol's strategy signals a new turn in the battle. Not only is it politically acceptable to criticize the Clinton plan on policy grounds, it is also politically advantageous. By the end of 1993, blocking reform poses little risk as the public becomes increasingly fearful of what it has heard about the Clinton plan.

......

January 25, 1994 - In his State of the Union address, President Clinton tries to refocus public attention on health care reform as Congress prepares to wrestle with the actual legislative proposals. ....
Republicans openly embrace William Kristol's latest advice: Oppose any Clinton health care reform "sight unseen" and adopt a stance that "There is no health care crisis." President and the First Lady who have designed this new government program.

<snip>


Those bastards never even LOOKED at what was proposed. Want to blame health-care reform failure on someone? Give blame where blame is due: the repugs, the tobacco industry, and the health insurance industry.

[RummyTheDummy]

81. On health care

He tried. I don't see how that's debatable. How many other presidents have even done that?

Answer: Zero

[wyldwolf]

87. not really a good analysis

Are you using "Healthcare" as a determination of who is a republican and a democrat?

Under President Clinton's leadership, almost 6 million new jobs were created in the first two years of his Administration -- an average of 250,000 new jobs every month.

His two terms saw record lows in unemployment.

Under Clinton, every economic class saw improvement in income every year.

So how did he sell out our job base?

[Catherine Vincent]

29. I guess I could congratulate you.

In using the words failure and Clinton in the same sentence and in the heading, no less. Pat yourself on the back.

[Flubadubya]

30. "Is Clinton a failure?" ...

Depends on what the meaning of is, is. Hah!

No, Clinton IS NOT a failure, nor was he ever. Actually, Clinton triumphed over adversities that had never beset an American President before. To my knowledge no Am. Prez. was ever attacked so viciously by the "loyal opposition". The fact that he had to put up with this crap and still accomplished what he did speaks volumes about the man's REAL character. This President uplifted America and Americans. The current pseudo-Prez. has done just the opposite... and worse.

All men (including American presidents) have their faults, but Clinton's pale in comparison to the Shrub's, IMHO.

[Yupster]

31. My complaint with Clinton is

that since he governed in a period of general peace and prosperity, he had the time and energy to tackle some of the huge problems the country has and knows it must tackle. Yet he didn't.

We all know social security needs to be changed. Will there ever be a better time than Clinton's eight years?

Medicare will bankrupt us before social security, but there wasn't a serious effort to reform.

I think we all know we'll have to have universal helth insurance eventually. I don't think Clinton made an honest effort there either.

The economy was good. Great. So how was the economy when president Benjamin Harrison was in office? How about President Taft? Don't remember? That's because history doesn't judge presidents on the economy, barring some horrible disaster. History knows the economy goes up and down.

Other than that, what will Clinton be remembered for.

My complaint with Clinton was that he squandered his time in office.

[kaitykaity]

35. And the Republican Taliban's Jihad against him had

nothing to do with it I guess.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

[Yupster]

76. Honest teacher, I had a plan

to raise the retirement age to fix social security. I wrote it all down, but Newt Gingrich ate my book report.

[kaitykaity]

84. Shows what you know about politics.

Clinton was working against a GOP-controlled Congress,
and he was crippled politically by the incessant
investigations.

It's a miracle he stayed in office, much less got as
much done as he did--the Family and Medical Leave Act,
for example.

Some people are just never satisfied. Hung with a
new rope and all of that.

[Hippo_Tron]

67. He DID try to fix social security...

As well as many other things. Clinton could've accomplished SO much more with a democratic congress.

[Yupster]

75. What was his plan to fix social security?

I must have missed it.

[Raster]

32. why should I "make you feel better about clinton"?...

[Bridget Burke]

37. Take care of your own "feelings"

Keep on dreaming about your hero Ronnie.

[AlCzervik]

39. considering Clinton

had a reoublican congress that would stop at nothing to see him go down in flames he did a pretty decent job. Perfect? Hell no, but i'd like to see how another person would have held up if they were in his shoes. As for his lack of control of his baser instincts, he was wrong but let not fool ourselves here, we live in the instant media era. How many past presidents before Clinton had company when they really shouldnt have but got away with it becuase there weren't 24 hour cable news channels always in search of the next GOTCH!?

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[John_H]

41. Ahhhhh, one of those people who feel like shit during eight years

the lowest unemployment, the most people leaving poverty behind, the lowest minority poverty rates, the most mom and pop businesses created, the most stock market gains etc etc etc in history. Not to mention 1 soldier killed in non-terrorist-attack action, increasing rather than decreasing respect in the world etc. etc. etc.

Yup, Clinton's legacy would make me feel like shit if I were a Freeper or one-percenter as well.

[indigobusiness]

44. Clinton was one of the best...ever. Truly presidential and successful.

The puritanical witchunt that stalked and plagued him throughout his campaign and tenure was a disgrace.

He had no moral obligation to answer the questions for which he was impeached.

[rfkrocks]

47. Clinton's presidency will be know for the insane personal attacks

and how the GOP split the country-the impeachment will go down as attempted GOP overthrow of the government that it simply failed to beat at the election booth-the sore obnoxious rich kids of the GOP won power over the dems in Congress-but at the cost of the civility of the republic- the growing slander industry and the rise of the Oxymoron will be told by Historians-as to your question-ask anyone living in the world if they want personal comfort, safety and prosperity and I guess we know what the answer will be-if your rich the simple comforts of family life are taken for granted like a job, a home-Clinton wanted that for the people-the rich are always willing to forsake the poor in search of their own glory-with Clinton the rising tide did raise even the small boats -the difference in the 20s is profound-the poor were poor and it was really the decade of the wealthy-as FScott Fitzgerald said the "rich are not like us".That was how the 20s felt to the black,jew,irish, italian.-a president is judged by his times as well and I think the investigation orgasm of Ken Starr will be the cancer on the political process for quite some time-as to Reagan I don't think he was dumb-he could deliver a speech as well as any except JFK or FDR-

[jpgray]

48. Very charismatic, pretty lackluster as a president (nt)

[sadiesworld]

55. Thanks for the chuckle.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

62. Right. "Pretty lackluster as a president"...

...let's see...

**the economy ran very well...the best in U. S. history,

**the military was used sparingly/appropriately except for the Mogidishu nightmare,

**we had the respect of the international community,

**the budget was balanced,

**the budget surplus was beyond anyone's wildest hopes.

Your definition of "lackluster" must be VERY different from mine.

[jpgray]

72. The last two are the most important to me

The others are not very spectacular in terms of presidential accomplishments--I don't believe the economy in particular 'belongs' to a president, unless he enacts a very radical policy (Bush). Clinton's stewardship of the economy looks incredible next to Bush's, but comparing him to Bush sets the bar very low.

Clinton presided over the DOMA, media consolidation, an increase in globalization, and a continuation of brutal sanctions on Iraq (along with serious consideration toward invasion/further bombing)--that's just for starters. The progressive causes he advanced were few--in many cases it was a treading of water, and in some cases we slipped even lower.

[wyldwolf]

89. Yeah, and Clinton's was the 1993 Economic Plan

which cut taxes on 15 million low-income families and made tax cuts available to 90 percent of small businesses, while raising taxes on on the wealthiest taxpayers.

Another LEFTWING anti-Clinton talking point debunked.

[kentuck]

54. Define "failure"...

Before I commit? :)

By the way, how many presidents got a blow job in the oval office - that we know about? Just the Big Dog. People will be talking about that when we are dead and gone. :) And it won't necessarily be in a bad light, in my opinion.

[Catherine Vincent]

57. I guess no one has made you feel better about Clinton

since you haven't responded to any posts.

[Mandate My Ass]

58. Is immune2irony going to respond to the flamebait

s/he posted?

Who cares about how you feel about Clinton?

[kentuck]

61. What can they say about Clinton they haven't already said??

He has no where to go but up.... :)

[Webster Green]

68. He should have inhaled......

His welfare reforms were and still are extremely cruel.

I had no problem with the Monica episode though. In fact, I think blow jobs in the oval office should be required, not discouraged.

As Gore Vidal said the other day: "Lying about sex used to be the honorable thing for a gentleman to do.

[RummyTheDummy]

82. Everyone knows he inhaled

I think if you read between the lines, that's what all the hullabaloo was about.

[Mandate My Ass]

71. Author Author (nt)

[Trajan]

73. Clinton faced a GOP congress in early 94 ...

NOTHING was going to pass .. not with that sick fuck Newtie in charge on the Hill ....

Clinton DID get a tax increase on those with high incomes, and helped bring balance to the lopsided GOP deficits of the prior 12 years ...

Otherwise: there wasnt much he COULD do ...

Clinton was adored by moderates ...

I thought he was a wonderful man: too bad he was hamstrung by a recalcitrant GOP congress ...

Perhaps you really hate him, but decided a passive-aggresive attack was a better approach in DU ? ...

[Yupster]

78. Just to pick a nit

The Republican congress took over in 95, not 94. Clinton had a Democratic House and Senate for 93 and 94. I wish he would have used the time to tackle the biggest issues.

Also, just because you have an opposition congress doesn't mean you can't tackle big issues.

Reagan had a Democratic House his entire eight years and got an awful lot of big things passed that you'd never think a Democratic House would vote for.

[notbush]

83. Clinton FUCKING blew healthcare...

If he would have any kinda fuckin' plan that was understandable, we would ALL have healthcare today!!!!
He didn't have a real plan that Democrats could support....let alone Repugs.

[Bridget Burke]

88. There's too much money on healthcare

Those who stand to make the money will oppose any attempt at reform. That's what happened to Clinton.

[Yupster]

79. duplicate

[Dogmudgeon]

85. Clinton's Real Legacy

1. Optimism. Unlike Republican "optimism," which dictates that a wrathful God will punish the wicked world, Clinton really did believe that the future was going to be better.

2. Belief in Humanity. The Conservatives do not like people. They delight in such ironies as "Democracy is Mob Rule" and "the more I get to know people, the more I like my dog." Bill Clinton loved people and was never without a good word for anybody, even Shrub.

3. Teamwork. And without bloviation. A lot of hot air gets wasted over "teamwork" and "partnership," but it was a core value of Clinton's approach toward international rerlations.

4. Trying to please all interested parties. We often look at this as a major character flaw -- that a Strong Leader should lay down his Law and enforce compliance. Clinton tried to keep everyone as happy as possible. At the time, it looked like it was a failure of a policy. In retrospect, it seems to have worked quite well.

5. Emotional responsiveness. Most of our "leaders" have been rigid and robotic. This is often called gravitas although it might better be called rigiditas. Clinton was one of the most "human" Presidents we have had.

6. Respect. This is an outgrowth of his love for people. Although he failed spectacularly with regards to Hillary, Chelsea, and Monica Lewinsky, he always respected other people's points of view and ideas. Conservatives/Republicans, on the other hand, believe that the Superior owes nothing to the Subordinate but the whip hand. Bill Clinton was able to make so much progress in the Mid-East, in spite of a bias toward Israel that he admitted to, because he really did respect Islam and the Arabs. His work was paying off, too, until the back-channel efforts of Team Bush to destroy it.

Progressives can, and should, appreciate Clinton. Too much of modern American progressivism is based around self-righteous ideologizing, and that is a fatal mistake. Politics is "the art of the Possible," and the world -- and America -- improved quite a bit under his administration. The constant cry of "conscience!" is ignored, not because of moral deafness, but because no one trusts the consciences of angry perfectionists, even angry progressive perfectionists. Thus, Bill Clinton's frequently-faulty conscience is trusted more than the pristine conscience of Alexander Cockburn.

If you want to see how his failures really occurred, read some news from when the failures happened. I seem to recall that there was a fairly big group of politicians which was quite active in trying to scuttle his plans and to make him look bad.

History will judge Bill Clinton. I believe he will get a very positive verdict, indeed.

--bkl

[CWebster]

90. Clinton is a slick and charming politician

Who sought compromise when he should've stood firm. He continues to defend that compromise for the sake of his legacy at the expense of party objectives.

[SlingBlade]

91. The Freepers Favorite Subject

Clinton, And why it’s all his fault.
:puke: