Can anyone help my Deaniac husband???

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

I am really serious about this and I am NOT looking for a Kerry flame war. It may turn into one anyway, but I sincerely hope not.

Here's the deal. My husband is a liberal, but up until last year, was pretty apolitical. Barely bothered to vote. I'd tell him who I was voting for and he'd go vote for that person(s).

Well we discovered Dean last year. And I have NEVER seen my husband get into a candidate or politics so much. Ever. Yes, he is still a bit.....how shall we say?....bitter about Dean not being the candidate.

I got over it after a few weeks and am now a strong Kerry supporter. I always knew I would support WHOMEVER won the nom and my husband said he would, too, but.....

Just so we're clear, he just told me that if bush were standing in front of him now on fire, he wouldn't PISS on him. So this isn't some latent bush-loving going on (gag, that's grounds for divorce in this house!).

I know it's "just" June. And I honestly think he will end up voting for Kerry (he is now considering abstaining), but it bothers me that he is having such a hard time with this. I have told him how much it means to me, how hard it would be for me to take if he just sat out, etc.

For the record, we are NOT in a swing state. We are in a red state. But I don't care. I know he wants bush out of the White House, so he is GOING TO HAVE to vote for Kerry.

Can I get some honest feedback on how to help him? He would love to be in the place I am. He's just having a hard time (when he falls in love, he falls hard....).

Thanks!

(It's not anything in particular AGAINST Kerry, by the way...just that he can't let go of the Dean dream....)

[seabeyond]

1. just wasnt deans time, his is coming

tell him in the next four years support dean, i see in creating something wonderful in this time. i am a beleiver now was too soon for dean, wasnt his time. i feel strongly the 2008 is it. now kerry mey take off and be good and pat him on the back, but if not, kerry is the first step to be taking the neocons down,. and may perfectly be what this nation needs to start getting out of the mess, and i see dean coming in and healing

dean is not done

[GOPisEvil]

2. Show your husband this:

http://www.blogforamerica.com/archives/004065.html

"WASHINGTON, DC--Governor Howard Dean, M.D., today endorsed Democratic Presidential candidate Senator John Kerry (D-Mass.), citing Kerry's experience and vision.

"While my run for the White House ended last month, our work to take back this country has only just begun. George W. Bush's policies continue to fail to deliver on issues that matter most to Americans, and we desperately need a change of leadership come November," said Dean, speaking at a rally with Massachusetts Senator at The George Washington University's Kogan Plaza."

[bigwillq]

3. As a Deaniac myself

I was bitter for a few weeks but realized I must throw my support and vote behind Kerry.

Tell hubby Dean's cause was to make people more aware of the political system and political policies. Even though Dean didn't get the nod, his fight (and ours) is not done. Our mission is too bring Dean's message out in the open and get these crooks out of political office.

Your husband would be failing in a way if he did not get out and vote. Dean would want him to vote. That's his real mission-to be active in politics and voting is one action we all must do.

[mike_c]

4. my advice--

Wait and see what the Green Party does at their convention. That's what I'm going to do. You asked for "honest feedback...."

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

8. And I thank you for it

but I threatened bad things if he votes third party. I am actually a third party person at heart, this just isn't the year.

Again though I thank you for your honest feedback!

[mike_c]

12. anytime 'mam....

Shucks.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

14. I like your avatar

:toast:

[LizW]

5. Leave him alone, he's fine

He's going to vote for Kerry. What more do you want?

He sounds like he's at the same place I am. I can't get excited about Kerry, but he's so incredibly much better than Bush that it just doesn't matter.

A vote is a vote. It counts the same whether the voter is cheering or holding his nose as he casts it.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

7. True very good point and thanks for posting that eom

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

6. I did tell him about Democracy for America

and that just made him love Dean more. I did tell him Dean would want him to vote for Kerry, that softened him up a bit.

If worse comes to worse, I might promise things I can't type here. Lots of them.

:P

[Eric J in MN]

9. How he feels is how he feels.

We need to contribute to Kerry and vote for him, but we don't need to feel a particular way about him.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

11. See THAT'S what I am trying to get across to him

thanks for putting into words what I have struggled to say. I will have him read all the posts so far, I think they are VERY helpful!!!

[patrice]

10. The thing that is helping Kansas City Deanocrats is . . . .

We are lucky enough to have reinvented ourselves with good local leadership and Democracy for America, which is very active here with America Coming Together to swing Missouri for Kerry.

I don't think Kerry alone would do it for us if it weren't for the DFA emphasis upon local candidates. We are finding our local candidates, giving them our DFA questionnaire, vetting them and ultimately picking some to focus our efforts around.

Having real good local candidates, one or more depending upon your numbers, is very helpful when you don't feel so good about things like the different color tickets (for VIPs compared to non-VIPs) that were handed out here last week at the Kerry rally.

Vicky Walker will probably be one local that DFAs synchronize our efforts around. She is a very interesting candidate with much progressive support even spreading as far as the local Green Party.

Our local leadership has provided very generous e-communities for us and we also continue our DFA MeetUps. This is also very helpful.

There are still some pretty bitter people around, so we try not to talk about the DLC and DNC, but that's hard when you see something like those colored tickets that people were gaming each other with before last week's Kerry rally at the airport.

[onecitizen]

13. I know how he feels.........

but tell him Dean wants us to vote for Kerry. He'd be letting Dean down NOT to vote. It's hard I know. I love Dean too. I'll never forget him:loveya: but life goes on. Dr. Dean wants us to go on too. Besides, Dean will be back(in fact he hasn't left).

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

15. I feel the exact same way!!!!! eom

[jpgray]

16. If he was that set on Dean, odds are he's heard all my arguments already

If he's more interested in voting his conscience than removing Bush, I agree with mike_c; see what the Green convention comes up with.

[patrice]

17. And OH YEAH, I forgot to mention, as long as I have anything to do with

the Democrats, I will be looking for ways to hold their feet to the fire on the issues.

This whole thing isn't over on November 3, no matter who wins!

[Eric J in MN]

21. The election is November 2 nt

nt

[patrice]

22. I was refering to the day after the voting, since

during the vote the result would be indeterminent.

[Jacobin]

18. I have felt the same way and it is only by GREAT stint of

self-control that I am able to (grudgingly) send money to Kerry and vote for him.

I understand precisely how your husband feels. I felt exactly the same way. The man would respond to Bush idiocy with four paragraph come-backs that made my heart sing. He did not put up with Smirk's faux "religious" bullshit, gaybashing, gun promoting smears. He was completely and utterly and unabashedly in favor of the separation of church and state and was clear that he wanted religion OUT of government and recognized the ghastly effects on civilization and government when religion takes control.

He didn't pander to the 'middle class tax cutters' like Kerry who realize we are on the brink of an economic collapse and that the revenues will be needed to fund the SS contract and medicare and to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure.

The man spoke the truth, and let the chips fall where they may. He is and was GREAT. It is extremely difficult to come from seeing him as a possible candidate to settling for Kerry. EXTREMELY difficult.

Give your husband some time. It took a lot of time for me too. As undesirable as Kerry is, it does not seem possible that he will be worse than Smirk. God I hope I'm right and the SOB better not reinstate the draft, or I'll be out marching in the streets against his ass, too.

[jpgray]

20. If Kerry reinstates the draft, I will eat my hat

I disbelieve that any Democratic president could ever survive such a move politically, and Kerry is nothing if not a politician.

[Jacobin]

50. Here's hoping that either you won't have to eat your hat

or, that you have a smallish and flavorful hat. :-)

He worries me. As IraqNam descends into utter chaos and strife and the re-enlistments plunge, is he going to do an LBJ? Or will he admit that this was a ghastly and horrific mistake and pull out. I'm hopeful that NATO might be more willing to help out with Kerry in office, but by January 2005, my guess is that IraqNam will be in full fledged, full-blown meltdown mode.

[PassingFair]

26. B-yooti-ful post, Jacobin!

Couldn't have said it better myself! After manning the phones, making coffee, and attending countless Dean meet-ups, I am still behind him all the way.
Of course, I will vote for Kerry.
A happy side note: Whilst volunteering for Dean, I signed up to be nominated for a district delegate, then promptly (sic)neglected to join the Democratic Party. Last month, I was in the neighborhood....signed both myself and my husband up. What should appear in the mail last week, but a ballot proof!
It appears I'm a shoo-in (vote for not more than three!).
Dean wasn't kidding when he said the idea was to pack the party with "Dean Democrats". It's a tiny position, but I'm gonna be as progressive a district delegate as ever there was.

[Dems Will Win]

29. Kerry just told 130 College Editors NO DRAFT

He also said 2 weeks ago with a sensible foreign policiy a DRAFT is "absolutely unnecessary" and has put forth what is basically a NO-DRAFT PLAN that adds 20,000 combat soldiers and 20,000 reconstruction engineers, augmenting that with a "Civilian Stability Corps" of several thousand more volunteer patriots for reconstruction tasks.

BUSH '04 = DRAFT '05

KERRY '04 = PNAC OUT THE DOOR!

[sandnsea]

19. Forget Kerry, just change something

I don't care what it is, just ask him to please please please work to change something in your state that desperately needs changing. Some crazy stupid ass right wing ignorance that has GOT TO GO. I don't see how things in red states are ever going to improve otherwise, and the rest of the country desperately needs those red states to move forward!

He'll either come to discover it's something Kerry has worked on for years, or he'll come to discover change is tough and have appreciation for people who have dedicated their lives to political change. Or he'll experience the joy from knowing "Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance". And that's something!

[HFishbine]

43. Good Advice

Sound!

[mainer]

23. Point out that Dean is now campaigning for Kerry

Ah, but I know how your hubby feels. I loved Dean. But Dean is now on the stump for Kerry, and if your hubby supports Dean, then he should do what Dean wants him to do! Vote Bush out!

Dated Dean. Still miss him.

[nostamj]

24. ask him this:

WHAT WOULD DEAN WANT HIM TO DO?

you know the answer.

and have him read Dean's new columns and have him get involved with the revised DFA movement.

nuff said...

[MGKrebs]

25. I'm still working for Dean in a way.

i am dedicated to helping to make it possible for a candidate like Dean to succeed. I have become inspired to become a deputy voter registrar (I've registered 120 people over the past 2 weeks!), and us Dean supporters here in Atlanta have stayed together and formed a 401c4 non-profit organization to continue the fight against special interest domination of our government! Check your area, many others have done the same.

Other issues that help the cause:
- paper ballots ( www.verifiedvoting.org )
- Instant Runoff voting ( www.fairvote.org )
- www.truemajority.org

There are ways to help.

YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!
WE HAVE THE POWER!

"Wake up everybody no more sleepin in bed
No more backward thinkin time for thinkin ahead
The world has changed so very much
From what it used to be
there is so much hatred war an' poverty
Wake up all the teachers time to teach a new way
Maybe then they'll listen to whatcha have to say
Cause they're the ones who's coming up and the world is in their hands
when you teach the children teach em the very best you can.

Chorus
The world won't get no better if we just let it be
The world won't get no better we gotta change it yeah, just you and me."

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

27. From the Deaniac Husband:

His words, as typed by me:

Thanks everyone for your honest advice. I have decided to take at least five shots of Crown Royal on election day, I am taking the day off, and go vote for Kerry. I cannot abide bush in office four more years.

I also could not abide my wife's wrath if I did not vote for Kerry. I might make that six shots, but I'll do it.

Thanks again,
Mr. Moonbeam_Starlight, a liberal Deaniac in Texas

From Moonbeam herself now: I am a deputy voter registrar too and have registered more people to vote than I can count! I actively support my local and county Dem group and have done tons of things to help on the local, state and national level. I have contributed to the Kerry campaign. Mr. Moonbeam doesn't mind that, as we keep separate money.

Thanks!

[Mechatanketra]

28. Brutally honest feedback ...

Short of ambushing Kerry with an ether-soaked rag to keep him from spouting off more "triangulated" goodies, you're in about as good a position as you're going to get: he's not gonna vote for Bush, and he's probably going to vote for Kerry.

The "Anyone But Bush" meme can win Kerry a vote from a Dean supporter. But it's unrealistic, even insulting, to expect the energy to carry over as well. Speaking as a man who, thanks to Dean, was ready to start thinking of myself as "a Democrat" instead of just a man who happens to vote Democratic as the lesser of who-cares, I'm heading to the polls this November with a plate tucked up my coat over my back, fully expecting to be stabbed by 'my' candidate in 2005. I've got little reason to vote for Kerry, except for the dire need to be voting against Bush. Chances are your husband may feel the same.

Your husband's bitter -- well, he's got a right to be. Anything more than a grudging vote in November is out of your hands -- that'd be up to Kerry, to break free of the yellowbrick Democrat shell and actually measure up to the Dean dream.

[harper]

30. Agreed

I'll vote for Kerry, work for Kerry and send him money, but I can't love him the way I do Dr. Dean. I remember watching Clinton at the Harkin picnic. He made the point that primary season is the time to fall in love with a candidate. After there is a nominee, its time to fall in line.

Well, I've fallen in line behind Kerry but my heart is with Dr. Dean. I'm waiting to see is Kerry lives up to all the support he's getting from people who are holding their nose to vote for him.

[mandyky]

31. I wouldn't push him

Suggest he get involved with the Democracy for America movement. It's his vote to decide what to do with, he'll be okay whether he votes or not. Maybe there is a local race being sponsored in the Dean Dozen thing, that can draw him back to involvement.

I am still not sure Kerry can pull this off, but I'll vote for him to get rid of shrub. Howard Dean is trying to get all of us Deaniacs excited and involved again - maybe have your hubby check out the blogs and the new forums over at democracyforamerica.com

[emulatorloo]

32. per WSJ Dean and Kerry have BONDED -has husband seen pictures

of the two of them playing poker?

also see this WSJ piece:

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB108655747737429973,00.html?mod=todays%5Ffree%5Ffeature

<snip>

No single individual, other than Mr. Kerry's future running mate, may be more important to the success of the Democratic ticket against President Bush. After all the bitterness of last winter, a Dean ally jokes that the two "blue-bloods have bonded." In some respects they resemble two senior vice presidents, who vied for the same chief executive job and now find common interest in staying as a team -- not breaking apart.

<snip>

[hedda_foil]

33. The WSJ article is totally amazing!

No single individual, other than Mr. Kerry's future running mate, may be more important to the success of the Democratic ticket against President Bush.

<snip>

Certainly, Mr. Dean's free-spirited independence makes him an asset as Mr. Kerry tries to fend off defections to third party candidate Ralph Nader. As a trained doctor, Mr. Dean is working with old labor allies to promote health-care proposals at the heart of Mr. Kerry's domestic agenda.

Like no one else, perhaps, Mr. Dean is crucial if Mr. Kerry is to achieve his goal of greatly expanding the turnout among younger voters, who have swung against the Iraq war and remain worried by the lack of economic opportunity at home.

It won't be easy. "My constituency is divided on John Kerry," Mr. Dean acknowledges in an interview. Among young people, he says, the task is harder now that he no longer is a candidate, and the challenge is to keep alive that sense of community and civic involvement his campaign bred among otherwise disaffected voters.

[CWebster]

34. With each passing day, Kerry demonstrates a better reason

not to agonize over not voting for him.

I will vote a straight Democratic ticket in support of increasing a solid Democratic foundation. I will leave the presidential vote vacant as an act of conscience. And I am in a swing state.

[emulatorloo]

38. What Pleasure is there in actively working for the defeat of the Dem

candidate for President and the re-(s)election of GWB?

Even if I beleived for one second that John Kerry was as "horrible" as you say (and I don't and he isn't) a 2nd GWB term will ruin the country.

So what is the point of actively encouraging others in swing states to vote against the Dem Candidate for president? What will this accomplish, besides 4 more years of GWB?

[CWebster]

40. Would be a problem if

Kerry was demonstratably a Democrat....otherwise what would be the need for the rallying cry: "We will hold his feet to the fire" ? Why not hold his feet to the fire now? What better time could there be? Don't you find the irony in that desperate drive for ABB is in support of the one who continually challenges Bush on the small stuff only--Like complaining about the price of gas - presumably so Americans can fill the tanks of their SUVs.

[emulatorloo]

47. Complaining about the price of gas is the only challenge?

You need to check in w Yahoo news more often if that is your perception; Kerry is out there everyday challenging Bush.

As to which is a Dem:

George Bush is against abortion rights.
John Kerry is for abortion rights.

George Bush wants to make tax cuts for rich permanent and doesn't care about the middle class
John Kerry wants to repeal the tax cuts on rich and give more breaks to middle class

George Bush is against gay rights
John Kerry is for full partnership rights and family rights for gay couples/families

George Bush proposal for dealing w energy issue is drilling in ANWR
John Kerry is against drilling in ANWR and proposes investment in devel of alternative energy sources

Ok now, which one sounds like a democrat? Bush?

As to "Holding Feet To The Fire", we have held Bush's feet to the fire, and it is time to face the fact that George Bush Does Not Listen To Us. Kerry will listen, Bush Never Will. . .

[CWebster]

48. Didn't kerry just say that he would consider anti-choice judges?

Kerry wants to cut some of the tax breaks for the very wealthy, but if the entire package was shelfed there would be more money to help the lower ranks of the middle-class.

Kerry equivicates on Gay Rights, disapproving of Gay marriage as if Gays were second class citizens.

Didn't Kerry recently state he would consider the drilling of ANWAR to some oil drilling workers?

Kerry will listen? Sounds like you haven't been.

[emulatorloo]

49. Yes if their personal beliefs don't cause them to be bad judges

and as long as their personal beliefs about abortion don't cloud their judgement.

What is wrong with that? He stands behind his strong defence of abortion rights.

Kerry and Bush disapprove of Gay Marriage. But Kerry's position is a hop skip and a jump away from Gay Marriage. . .Bush's position is LIGHT YEARS away from Gay Marriage. Teresa Heinz-Kerry has already said in interviews that she thinks gay marriage is coming. . .

No he did not recently state that re ANWR. . .You are misquoting Kerry on ANWR as well - he has supported drilling in the areas that are *already open* to drilling - I would find the quote for you but advanced search is down. It was in an interview w Judy Woodruff on Inside Politics.

[Pastiche423]

53. Almost the exact same here, CWebster

The difference being, I will write-in my choice for president.

My vote did not count in my primary (May 18), so what why would it count in November?

Moreover, it's only one vote, right?

[gottaB]

35. get out and mingle

Mingle with former Lieberman supporters, Sharpton supporters, Gephardt supporters....

[OpSomBlood]

36. I'm a Deaniac, and I'm bitter too.

I have always been a registered Independent who always voted Democratic. Dean inspired me to change my affiliation to Dem so that I could vote for him in our primary (which unfortunately was held a month after the nomination was already decided).

Aside from his desire to renew the Assault Weapons Ban, every stance Dean took resonated well with me. Being an engineer, I was excited about the idea of having another scientific person in the White House.

I'm voting for John Kerry for the sole reason that his name is not George W. Bush. Kerry inspires me in no way whatsoever, and I'm still angry about the behind-the-scenes DLC/DNC/media character assassination of Dean, which I'm sure Kerry was involved in.

You don't have to worry about your husband. It sounds to me like he knows how important this election is. He's in the same boat as a lot of us.

[suzijane]

37. Another sad Deaniac here

Of course I'll vote for Kerry. I just don't like him as much as Dean. Kerry's a politicain, Dean is a patriot(which I suppose explains why he's NOT the candidate.)I'm almost 60 years old. Just once I'd like to vote for a President and not be holding my nose.

[MercutioATC]

41. I feel the same way. I was voting FOR Dean, not against Bush.

Luckily, as somebody above posted, a vote for Kerry counts the same even if you hold your nose while casting it.

[NashVegas]

39. Tell Him This:

"all that matters is what we do with the time that's left to us."

LotR speak goes will with Deaniacs.

[HFishbine]

42. Kerry can help him

Your husband sounds a lot like me (at present, I've been more politically involved previously). You'll get plenty of advice about what your husband can do, but the real question is what can Kerry do? I've not seem him go out of his way to acknowledge former Dean supporters and bring them into the fold. Kerry is the one who has the power to keep the flame alive in your husband. Instead, he seems content to let those hundreds of thousands of flames die. If he nominates a pro-war VP, I will abstain from voting for president.

I know this wasn't supposed to be a flame Kerry thread, but really, Kerry bears the responsibility for inspiring the Deaniacs.

[pezcore64]

44. well im not happy

i hafta vote for kerry either, but im gonna. im sure he'll come around too.
there was always some bad blood between the kerry and dean camps. i dunno why people just thought thatd vanish.

[Upfront]

45. Me To

I can't seem to let go either. Tell him Dean is not over yet. He is working hard to elect Democrats who think along his lines. Maybe he can look into helping with that. Mean while we must vote for Kerry. More Bush is to big a risk to not vote for Kerry. It is the real world, sad as it is.

[Cheswick2.0]

46. tell him to Join DFA and get involved with other candidates

He will bring people to the polls who will vote for Kerry even if he can't.

[Larkspur]

51. As a Dean supporter this is my philosophy about Kerry...

"Politics is not the art of the possible; it most often is a choice between disaster (Bush) and the unpalatable (Kerry)." (quote by James Kenneth Galbraith)

I'm voting for Kerry but not donating my time or money to his campaign. And when people ask me who I'm voting for for Prez, I explain my Kerry vote in the context of Galbraith's quote. I don't like Kerry but Bush is leading this nation into the black hole of catastrophe.

Instead of donating time and money to Kerry, I'm donating time and money to my local Dem Congressional candidate. If your husband can't support Kerry, that's OK. Even Dean recognizes that many of his supporters can't stand Kerry, so Dean says to find a Democrat, especially one in a swing state or in a competitve seat, who needs time and/or money. If he doesn't know of one, he can choose one from the Dean Dozens lists.

Of course, your husband could also run for local office.

[lastliberalintexas]

52. Leave him alone

You're in Texas for God's sake. Let him vote however he darn well pleases, since it won't count anyway.

The more productive path is to ask him to work for Dems on other levels. We have several Dem Congresscritters under attack b/c of Delay's re-re-districting and Dems like Van Os running for judicial offices who need our help. Probably even better- we have many county Dem clubs that need to be started or re-energized- get him working on that in your county if it's needed!

By refocusing his energies he might come around to Kerry. But one thing is for certain- the more you nag him, the more you run the risk of irritating him so that he is completely turned off by Kerry. Let him try to come around to the man in his own time. If not, at least he'd be working for the cause on other levels!

[quaker bill]

54. It is just this simple for me.

I simply want to hand Bush the largest defeat possible. At this point, I can only do this by supporting Kerry.

I want the Republican party to learn that they should never do stuff like this again. They need to know this just in case they achieve this kind of power ever again.

They need to learn a lesson and voting Democratic is the only viable way to teach them, for the time being.

[MoonRiver]

55. Your husband sounds like a great guy!

I really appreciate that type of dedication and loyalty, and I also believe that Dean is a great person. However, Dean has thrown his support to Kerry. Does that sway your hubby at all? I mean, Dean is consumed with a desire to get * out. Plus, he is honorable enough that I doubt he'd be supporting and working for someone he believed was as bad as * (the only reason, imho, not to vote for Kerry). Your husband should emulate his hero Dean, and vote for Kerry. It's simple!