Can it happen here?

[Solon]

One thing I find odd about Americans is the idea that we think we are immune to certain things such as coup d'etates and banana republic tactics. Is that really true though, even the coup of 2000 was different from most, it was an extra-legal(as in outside the Constitution), rather than illegal or violent coup. Many here know about Smedley Butler and many of his accomplishments, did any of you know that he, single-handedly, saved American Democracy?

READ THIS about the attempted Coup against Roosevelt:

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Butler.html

[EdGy]

1. absolutely!

power is power. when it is threatened it lashes out.

if real power in this country were threatened, we'd see the same kind of thing except more ruthless.

In fact, if it looks like Bush is going down, I hope that Kerry has established good relations with military and cia types, because that may be the only thing to stop them from going along with a coup or martial law scenario.

[amber dog democrat]

2. I believe you are right.

With the obsession for secracy that this administration is steeped in, will the full extent of abuses of power ever be known?
In order to head off being held accountable they must stay in power -
and I think in desperate circumstances there is a chance they would stop at nothing.

It could happen ANYWHERE.

[demigoddess]

11. at the same time I have to wonder if * wants a second term

with only one term he is still set for life. He has the pension and protection for life and he can use his former position to do the same job his father does now. And now that he has stirred up the middle east we may have wars and skirmishes for years to come. I don't think the *es really care about who holds the white house as long as there is instability to take advantage of.

[amber dog democrat]

12. Oh but "They " need him!

Where would Karen Hughs be if the Chimp stops now?

He is a cash cow for so many vested interests.

Yes I don't think he really even wanted the first term. Bush's whole life has been inauthentic. Just a very powerful pawn on the chessboard.

[Q]

3. But..doesn't the CIA and Military work for THE PEOPLE?

- The very fact that you have to HOPE that Kerry can 'get along' with the CIA and military demonstrates that these government entities tend to work outside the Constitution and act as rogue agents.

- The People tend to forget that the GOVERNMENT is supposed to serve the people...not the other way around.

[amber dog democrat]

6. Yeah, well they work for SOME of the people.

Some of the time.

But it is interesting to me that some of the leaks that are damaging to the Bush Adminsitration seem to be coming from malcontents in the Dept of Defense and the CIA. I tend to think there are honerable professionals in these agancies and in the armed forces who take their oath of allegience to the Constitution against all enemies foreign AND DOMESTIC more seriously than others.

Call me an idealist, but I do believe there are checks to the current pretender to the Oval Office that will come into play if something like this was put into motion.
My question is how far does treason need to progress before something happens?

I hope we never find out. Bush and his Junta have to go all the same.

[Az]

7. This is why all funding for the miltary must come from the people

The CIA drug connections and the out sourced armies are the real danger here. Any means of creating a selfsustaining military is a true threat to We The People. The US military would fall apart if it was not supported by our tax dollars. The same may not be true of orgs like the CIA.

[EdGy]

14. let's be realistic here

there's "supposed to" and then there's reality.

It would be very naive to think that these institutions don't serve their own interests and the interests of the people who really run this country, the wealthy.

We have to fight like hell just to keep it from going over the edge, but let's not fool ourselves about how this place really works.

[pnorman]

4. I'd done a lot of reading and web-searching on that topic,

and was fairly familiar with most of the details. That website you cited was one I had either glanced through or missed altogether. Reading it carefully this time, I saw where the anti-Prohibition group, AAPA, had become a focus for political manipulation by wealthy figures. That it was the forerunner of the American Liberty League was brand new to me. I'll have some new leads to search out.

pnorman

[amber dog democrat]

5. and a parrallel - What was the NSDAP doing

before Der Furher?

[pnorman]

9. I'm not sure of the relevance of that to this discussion.

The original NSDAP was a tiny gab-group dedicated to a sort of state socialism, with heavy overtones of ant-Semitism. That was just the sort of "useless jabbering heads" that Hitler despised ("club-ism at it's worst"), when he infiltrated them in behalf of the German Army.

He spotted some worth in the group and took them over. He turned them into a well organized gang of zealot-thugs. From about that time, Hitler began to attract rich patrons, but I fail to see any close parallel here.

pnorman

[amber dog democrat]

10. I made the connection based on this

" I saw where the anti-Prohibition group, AAPA, had become a focus for political manipulation by wealthy figures."

I know it is not a one to one correspondance to the anti prohibition group, but something similar appears to have happened.

Just wondering, Was Sinclair Lewises's It Can't Happen Here, based on the conspiracy unmaksed by Butler? It would appear so.

What is fascinating is that I had no knolwedge of this event. Smedly Butler goes up even higher in my estimation.

[pnorman]

13. The "conventional wisdom" of that time was

that Sinclair Lewis was referring to Huey Long and his "Share The Wealth" movement. Coming from a "radical" perspective from an early age, I had known the broad outlines of that Smedley Butler affair. But without a scholar's access to primary materials, I could never be really certain. Search engine results still have to handled with some caution, but this internet comes pretty close to that "scholar's access". ie: I'm pretty certain now.

But that AAPA transforming into the Liberty League, is another "lead" I'll start digging into. With some accuracy, aspects of FDR's New Deal had been likened to the Corporate State (ie: Fascism). But that LIberty Legue comes much closer. It wasa the first time in our history that Corporate America felt "threatened" enough to form an open political organization. It never really dissolved, and can be linked to the Electoral Coup of 2000.

pnorman

[bobthedrummer]

8. It was "studied" and papers on the efficacy of coup presented at neo-

conservative dominated military think tanks during the President Clinton era (who was hated by some RW politicized officers).
Revolution in Political and Military Affairs/RPMA from USAF/INSS 1996
http://www.guerrillacampaign.com/coup.htm