Ashcroft - 'We're at war; questions about legalities are inappropriate.'

[bobbieinok]

last 2 paragraphs in article...

Ashcroft challenged the lawmakers on whether their questions were appropriate. ``We are at war,'' Ashcroft said. ``And for us to begin to discuss all the legal ramifications of the war is not in our best interest, and it has never been in times of war.''

Senator Jeff Sessions, an Alabama Republican, told Ashcroft that ``you are wise'' not to offer an opinion ``on the absolute, ultimate power of a president of the United States to protect the people of this country.''

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aasW6PrW2U5Y&refer=top_world_news

[Endangered Specie]

1. translation: "Be quiet or get re-educated"

[Vickers]

2. Ever heard of war crimes, you ignorant fuckstick?

Goddammit, why do I have to explain the fucking LAW to the fucking ATTORNEY GENERAL?

[Beearewhyain]

11. Vickers...

Best. Reply Rant. Ever

lol

[Vickers]

12. Sorry, I was just yelling at my kids, and some of it spilled over

:P

[Beearewhyain]

13. Why were you yelling at your kids?

They weren't torturing Iraqis were they. :silly:

[Vickers]

14. Nah, they said they wanted Reagan on the dime

I said, "You little bastards, they can put him on the goddam 2.6 trillion dollar bill if they want him on some goddam money!"

:crazy:

[Beearewhyain]

15. LOL

[NuttyFluffers]

22. Honestly, you make the best sound bites, ever

still love the 2.6 trillion dollar bill one

[mopaul]

25. i'll use nickels till i die rather than touch a reagan dime.......n/t

[Endangered Specie]

3. I swear, I keep trying to tell myself these guys arent REALLY fascists...

but I tell you they are making it harder and harder every f***in day.

[MoonRiver]

9. I keep trying to tell myself they're not REAL.

But no matter how many times I pinch myself the evil scum bags are still there. :cry:

[mopaul]

26. fascists, nazis, fundie whackos, merely words

these guys need a new classification.
my theory is, they'll do whatever they damn well please since no one is actually stopping them.

[Endangered Specie]

4. Inter Arma Einem Silent Leges...

In time of war the law falls silent.

[spanone]

5. I heard him on PBS today. Boy, we have got to get rid of that man

One arrogant, fanatical, fundamentalist.

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. Left unsaid: "Unless it's not a Repub in the Oval Office, in which case

fire away." :eyes:

[kalian]

7. No we're not you ignorant POS!

Congress has NOT DELCARED WAR and therefore you are LYING before
Congress when you are stating that "we are at war". :mad:
Friggin fascist pig!

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kalian]

20. Let's see....what drags its knuckles....

and TROLLS for a flaming....? :eyes:

And the FOOL...is YOU. ;) Buh-bye. :hi:

[polmaven]

28. And, rzstor, only for you....

Constitution of the United States of America

Section 8:
Congress shall have the power to.........declare war (emphasis added)

[paulk]

31. the War Powers Act

does not guarantee protection from prosecution for war crimes; it's not some blanket approval for doing whatever the fuck you want, which seems to be the Bush/Ashcroft interpretation.

You could make the argument that we are at war if you accept the validity of the IWR, however Bush violated that document at every turn - his 48 hr. post invasion notification to Congress, required under the terms of the IWR, was an absolute fucking joke.

If the Republican Congress/ and or John Ashcroft was really interested in the rule of law, GW Bush would be impeached by now.

By your definition, the US has been at "war" with someone for it's entire existance - in which case we might as well do away with Congress and have a dictator lead us - an idea that would sit well with Bush and his friends, I'm sure.

[Old and In the Way]

8. Watch 'em do a 180 when Kerry's elected.

The shift will be so violent that restraints may be in order.

[Disturbed]

10. War Crimes

The Congress is not allowed to speak about War Crimes?

Asscracked is in Contempt of Congress, The Constitution of the USA and The American people. Charge this criminal now!!!!

Unless Congress challenges this Admin. it will be plain that the USA is no longer a Representative Republic but a Right Wing Dictatorship!

[Q]

16. Suggesting that the Bush* administration is unaccountable...

...even during a 'time of war' is treason in and of itself. There is NOTHING in the Constitution or the law that gives the excutive branch absolute power over the other branches...even during wartime. In fact...the 'checks and balances' and coequal branches of government exist to keep any one branch from attaining dictatorial powers.

- Ashcroft is pissing on our Constitution and outright claiming the right to full control over our government....without consequence or responsibility for their actions. The sad, ugly part of all of this is that a majority of congress seems to agree or are willing to look the other way.

[Nlighten1]

17. Can we impeach him YET?

Come on! WTF are we waiting for?

[polmaven]

29. Unfortunately,

We would have to have a Democratic Congress.

[spanone]

19. Geez I hate that SHIT. He is lying or he would answer the fucking questio

n

[PretzelWarrior]

21. Ashcroft, F*ck you, little man

this guy sounds like the character in some holocaust movie that is absolutely loony. sends people to their deaths and slavery out of "necessity" and cuz "God told me to" while covering statues, singing tacky jingoistic songs he makes up....

jesus! this guy is straight from central casting. and he's not acting!

I'm ashamed he's from my home state of Missouri. But I still laugh that he lost a senate election to a dead guy.

[mopaul]

23. he's nuttier than a shit house rat

he was so arrogant and steeped in his holy convictions. if it weren't so horrific, it'd be funny.

these men cannot be reasoned with, only stopped.

we have got to stop them, somehow, some way, real soon.

[GSL]

24. But we're not really at war...

It's been one of the greatest media tricks ever... labelling this invasion of Iraq as a "war". Because when you're at war a whole lot of new rules apply.

1. Support your leaders.
2. Support the troops. They're just kids, after all, barely 18 some of them.
3. Don't ask too many questions.
4. Don't hold the generals accountable for atrocities committed. Leave them where the action is, they have an important role to play.
5. And now from Ass-croft... "don't discuss all the legal ramifications of the war" while you're at war.

Ignoring for the moment the most sickening reversal of all, the opinion that the prisoners at Abu Ghraib were not really prisoners of war (since they were insurgents, and not soldiers), and thereby not protected by the Geneva Convention, we have a most god-awful situation that leaks its monstrous lies day by day.

Forget impeachment. Forget resignations. Arrest them all, charge them with mass-murder, leading a nation to war on false pretences and a whole host of war crimes. Shut them away in maximum security and confiscate their property as partial payback. There is no other honest way out of this. That will become clear in the future, unless America keeps managing to avoid the ugly reality for ever.

[MsMagnificent]

27. Amen!

Forget impeachment. Forget resignations. Arrest them all, charge them with mass-murder, leading a nation to war on false pretences and a whole host of war crimes. Shut them away in maximum security and confiscate their property as partial payback. There is no other honest way out of this. That will become clear in the future, unless America keeps managing to avoid the ugly reality for ever.

Amen Amen Amen!!!

Welcome to DU (although I'm pretty new too :)

[BeFree]

33. A citizens arrest?

How do we gather the scum up and get them a hearing?...
Aye, that's the million dollar question, eh?

Well, as Q pointed out, what they are doing IS against the Constitution.
I dunno, how 'bout we use that tattered piece of 200 year old paper?

Someone, anyone?

[GSL]

36. It's difficult...

The problem is that the people that hold the power (Congress) are as guilty as Bush and the rest of them. They voted for the war. As Michael Moore seems to be pointing out in 911, Congress probably doesn't read or investigate very much, except when it comes to a hearing. My guess is they all voted for the war because they didn't want to seem unpatriotic. Especially if some kind of Al Queda/Sadamm link were proved, then the anti-war congressman would be politically vulnerable. And therein lies the crunch: these civil servants were really protecting their jobs and their reputations when they launched us into catastrophe. So now we can't count on them for any kind of truth. They're protecting themselves... just silly members of the board who allowed the CEO to make terrible decisions and bankrupt the company.

The best we can hope for is more speeches like Gore's, consistently and cutting closer to the bone (although he still held back). There will be much talk of people losing their minds from the right-wingers, but we must persist. When there is evil loose, it must be brought into the light and shown for what it is.

[Toots]

37. Pretty damn accurate description of events if I say so myself.

Welcome to DU :beer: :toast: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :beer: :toast:

[Straight Shooter]

38. What we need is more people like you standing up and speaking out

:yourock:

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[BeFree]

41. Ah, a newbie...Welcome!

Damn, you're up to speed on the whole deal.
You just posted a recap of what we have been discussing here for months. You covered it nicely. But like my first reply to you, I ask: How, what is the way from here to there? I might suggest that it is only the true patriots who are insiders in DC who are capable of stopping the train, or at least making it wreck.

As we speak, the CIA, et al, may be leaking the details for any one of the scandals. Let's hope they do pee on the RR descendants.

[Disturbed]

30. War Crimes Ciommited by BushCo: Any doubters here?

What is a war crime?
By Tarik Kafala
BBC News Online


Article 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention defines war crimes as: "Willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including... willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, unlawful deportation or transfer or unlawful confinement of a protected person, compelling a protected person to serve in the forces of a hostile power, or willfully depriving a protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial, ...taking of hostages and extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly."


This, international lawyers say, is the basic definition of war crimes.

The statutes of The Hague tribunal say the court has the right to try suspects alleged to have violated the laws or customs of war in the former Yugoslavia since 1992. Examples of such violations are given in article 3:

* Wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity
* Attack, or bombardment, by whatever means, of undefended towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings
* Seizure of, destruction or willful damage done to institutions dedicated to religion, charity and education, the arts and sciences, historic monuments and works of art and science
* Plunder of public or private property.

The tribunal defines crime against humanity as crimes committed in armed conflict but directed against a civilian population. Again a list of examples is given in article 5:

* Murder
* Extermination
* Enslavement
* Deportation
* Imprisonment
* Torture
* Rape
* Persecutions on political, racial and religious grounds.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1420133.stm


btw the US has been commiting crimes in Afghanistan for two years. BushCo and Congress has been trying to avoid the obvious. The intial photos were damning but not the worst of the crimes and not only perpetrated by a "few bad apples" in isolated events. This was a system wide policy approved by the CIC himself. This is what they ahve been trying to sweep away.

[RememberTheCoup]

32. "absolute, ultimate power" of the President?

Since when was the Constitution changed to give the Executive Office "absolute, ultimate power...to protect the people of this country"? I always thought Congress shared a little of that power. Senator Sessions sounds as clueless about the Constitution as our so-called Attorney General.

[Vickers]

34. No kidding!

This is what I was (profanely) talking about up there...these idiots who MAKE laws and ENFORCE (sic) laws don't underSTAND laws.

I will bet that I have spent more time reading the Constitution than Ashcroft.

I will bet that I have read more of the writings of Thomas Paine, James Madison and Thomas Jefferson (for instance) than the goddam President!

And to top it all off: I SHOWED UP FOR DUTY!!!!!

[Hubert Flottz]

43. Jeff wants another Hitler!

That's what he means I suspect!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

35. I must have missed the Declaration of War by Congress

but if it didn't happen, even if our military forces are engaged in action, we are not legally at war.

[qwertyMike]

39. "We're at war. Elections are unnecessary and counter-productive"

[PartyPooper]

40. Where in the world did Ashcroft go to law school?

:dunce:

[Endangered Specie]

42. Obviously nowhere near Nuremburg

[Bridget Burke]

45. University of Chicago Law School

After attending Yale.

But his most important degree was the Honorary one he received from Bob Jones University in 1999. Previous recipients: George Wallace, Strom Thurmond, Lester Maddox and--in a gesture at internationalism--Ian Paisley.

[truthspeaker]

44. Absolute, ultimate power? Not in this country, asshole!