Why is America so different than other western democracies?

[EldreEdda]

Why is America so right-wing compared to all other western democracies? The american dream? Is that it?

[rucky]

1. we're more isolated (geographically)

we don't have to try as hard to get along with our neighbors because we have less neighbors to worry about.

[EldreEdda]

4. So what you mean

is that you aren't so influenced with other mentalities like the European countries are? What about Canada? They are like Euro countries with a good social security net who take care of every citizen.

[rucky]

11. But we're the 800-pound gorilla

we are in a unique position to have a don't-fuck-with-me complex. balance of power in Europe is much more evenly spread around.

[EldreEdda]

15. Yeah, I guess that's true

even if Germany is still (unjustified IMO) crippled by WW2. Good point. The power you've always had on your own continent gives you the same mentality domestically as well. The bully mentality. Did I understand your point correctly?

[rucky]

19. yeppers... also the xenophobia

and that's why I think our nation collectively went insane after 9/11 - even though the danger of a terror attack is greater in Europe.

[iangb]

16. Nup.........not that........

.....look at Australia and New Zealand.......now that's isolation. And yet we (Aus) and NZ are no where near as conservative in our outlook as you.

Perhaps that's because, not being all powerful we've had to learn to compromise in our international relations, and have become used to seeing issues from differing points of view.

Whilst our present conservative Government has taken us a bit to the right, the average Aussie would still be perceived as a radical lefty by most main-stream Americans.

The average Aussie still sees free education, medical care and other social services as a right. Attempts by our Government to limit Social Welfare and Health Benefits have been met with cries of outrage......and have been blocked by the Senate.

[EldreEdda]

20. The US

America hasn't been all powerful for that long in history either though. Before WW2 started, the US wasn't considered among the greatest military powers in the world.

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. More like World War One

Because even the spoof English history book "1066 And All That", written in 1930, ended with "America was thus clearly top nation, and history came to a ." (thus preempting Francis Fukuyama by over 60 years).

[Djinn]

43. don't know if that's it

we're stuck down at the arse end of the world, you guys are considerably closer to Canada and Mexico than we are to our neighbours - you're also not that far from the rest of South AMerica and if you measure from Alaska and Hawaii, close to a whole host of other nations too.

[Sliverofhope]

2. I'd say two factors

Religious fundamentalism, which provides a base, and we're the home base for a lot of raw corporate power, which can inflame the base at will.

[EldreEdda]

3. So religious fundamentalism

is the basis of the "you get what you deserve" mentality? When I mean right-wing, I'm talking economically, I understand that abortion and homosexuality are vital issues in a country like the US.

[DaveSZ]

5. The corporations

The corporations have really pulled this country far to the right, and Reagan legitimized this melding of corporations and the state (dictionary definition = fascism).


He was a paid puppet for GE before he was Pres.

[swag]

6. We get most of our information from Television

And television has almost nothing but total shit to offer.

So we're some stupid motherfuckers who are easily taken to the cleaners.

[EldreEdda]

9. Hehe

Well, I understand that you don't like the current situation :D But I'm just a foreigner and would like to truly know what the reason behind this right-wing society. Why did corporations get so much power in America compared to corporations in other countries then?

[DBoon]

26. No feudal aristocracy to interfere

The capitalist classes could make the US at their bidding. The American Revolution removed the last vestige of royalty.

Even though Australia, Canada, and New Zealand were new terrortoy, they were still very closely tied to Breat Britain and their indigenous capitalists could not consolidate power so quickly and so completely.

[Burma Jones]

7. The Puritans, Money, Slavery, Genocide, Power

Then we declared and achieved independence from a superpower of the day (with great help from France of course) based largely on economics.

We had enslaved Africans and destroyed the native peoples. If we were not right wingers, we couldn't handle the heavy guilt. Abraham Lincoln was starting to get this concept when he made that comment about God extracting a drop of white blood for every drop of blood drawn by the lash..... Of course, he was shot and we went right back to the business of business and slaughtering what's left of the original inhabitants.

Our forefathers came upon a sparsely populated continent rich in resources. The impulse is to take what you can from it. The character of Al Swearengen in the HBO show Deadwood is a very telling metaphor for a certain force that is very American. Cynical, effective, powerful, hiding painful secrets and willing to use whatever he has at hand to erase past transgressions.

We are by far the world's greatest military power, something that a right winger is more comfortable with than a leftie. We will not readily cede that power, the Europeans would not want us to do so. They may disagree with us, but they appreciate that we carry the brunt of military burdens.

We are also HUGE consumers and must look with a blind eye towards most of the rest of the world. A blind eye is not a leftie trait, but is absolutely necessary for a right winger.

[madrchsod]

8. close to 3000 yrs to get it right....

europe has evolved thru war and peace to the "state" it is in now.we are on the other hand are only a few hundred years old and do not have the centuries of history that europe has..maybe in a thousand years we will be a civilized nation....

[Yupster]

34. I hope we don't have to suffer

all the dozens of wars Europe went through to get to that point.

[Eric J in MN]

10. Would you want Tony Blair or John Howard?

Would you want Tony Blair or John Howard?

They're both pro-Bush.

[EldreEdda]

13. Not only Blair and Howard

Koizumi, Kwasniewski and other head of states as well. But these countries are not as right-wing as the US. From my point of view here in Norway, Kerry is a rightie.

[physioex]

25. Sigh...I know..

I use to be a big fan of Tony Blair. He was cool kind of guy in the sense of Joe Montana. Now I can't stand the man, and he is making his own noose....

[immune2irony]

12. Our horrible education system

I think is mostly to blame.

[Disturbed]

18. Americans

Most Americans are taught that American is the best country on the planet. Most Americans don't know much about other countries and coudn't care any less about knowing anything about them or their people. The mentality of the Right Wing is self sufficiency and not team work, the cowboy mentality of rugged individualism. That is a pure myth because cowboys actually had to have a lot of team work but the myth ocntinues. Reagan perpetuated that myth. Right Wingers have a philosophy of "freedom" but that means that corporations should be free to to what they want to maximize profits. On the other hand, the RW has a strong desire to legistlate morality to the people and force the people to adhere to their idea of Christianity. The RW wants to abolish all social programs incl public education. That's my short take off the top.

Here is an excellent article about the "new" Right Wing.

The New Right Wing Agenda
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0613-02.htm

[Bjornsdotter]

35. Brillant!

<<Most Americans are taught that American is the best country on the planet. Most Americans don't know much about other countries and coudn't care any less about knowing anything about them or their people.>>


Hi,

You've nailed it!

Cheers,
Kim

[Swede Atlanta]

14. U.S. versus Parliamentary Systems

One observation I have had is that in parliamentary systems voters support a party that has a defined platform on key issues. Party members are largely required to vote along party lines and there is strong discipline to allow the leader of the party to speak on key issues.

In this country we have "loosely-coupled" parties in which elected party members are not obligated to follow the party line. Look at Zell Miller from my adopted state of Georgia. Can he look himself in the mirror and call himself a Democrat? No but our party structure allows this type of deviation from party policies.

While I admire the dynamics of our system, at least in a parliamentary system you more or less know what you will get. In our "wild west" system its a crap shoot what you will get.

[Dark]

29. Welcome to DU, lawdem_atlanta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi:

[Yupster]

Very true lawdem

A Texas Democrat may be more conservative than a New York Republican on many issues. As a Texas Dem, I've found this out many times on DU.

[Yupster]

36. dupiciticious

n/t

[iangb]

42. The 'free vote' system also makes it possible

......for 'outside forces' to influence the vote of individual reps.

Here, lobbyists have to convince a party to support them.......there is little value to them in chasing individual members for support if those members are 'locked in' to a party line.

Assuming a lobbyist makes it past first base, any change in policy then has to go to a national party conference before it's adopted.

Put bluntly, your system lends itself to corruption........and your people are disinclined to see it for what it is.

[Djinn]

45. Proportional representation

also allows a broader spread of parties. When the lobbyists only ever need to concentrate on Rep and Dem it's an easier ask

[jsw_81]

17. Far too much religious nonsense

And too much garbage on TV.

[Liberal Classic]

21. Vive le Difference!

Compared with those ayatollah assaholas, we're twins. Fraternal twins maybe, like the Olsen twins without all the boniness.

[seabeyond]

22. independent nature

pull yourself up by bootstrap, conquering the wild fronteir

[Ivan Sputnik]

23. We glorify the individual in our culture

over the group, to the point where many Americans believe they live in a classless society (or an almost entirely middle-class society, which amounts to the same thing). There are many reasons for this, among them our "pioneer" origins, the enormous size and geographic isolation of the country (which has psychological effects), our brief history (relative to Europe), and lots and lots of cleverly disguised propaganda.

[EldreEdda]

24. I guess that's a good summary

however I'm not entirely convinced with the arguments as a country like Australia fall into alot of those categories and they're just like us Europeans as a poster here posted.

[seabeyond]

28. i havent been to australia

but i always felt that they had a lot of the same character of the u.s. i also dont think what we see now of the people is how we have always bee. last couple decades (especially last decade), the who we are as an american people has really retarded.

[iangb]

44. Australians are not very different to......

.....Americans, but:

We see ourselves as part of the World community. and

We remind ourselves of our own limitations.........or if we don't others will do so for us. and

Relying on foreign trade for most of our GDP, we have had to learn about different cultures so as to be able to market ourselves effectively.

[seabeyond]

46. my brother and i have pick australia to meet up in

if we cant do america anymore. both husband (computers) and brother (certified welding on nuke plants) skilled labor, do we have a shot, wink

[newyawker99]

50. Hi Will Robinson!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[theboss]

27. We're so much bigger.

It's tough to build a socialist paradise in a country where you can be 3000 miles from the capital or hundreds of miles from a large city.

You have to remember that modern conservatism was born in the Southwest desert.

[EldreEdda]

31. I don't think there's such a thing as a socialist paradise

,but at least huge countries like Russia and China at least couldn't be said to have had the same capitalist mentality that you've had over the years. But you might be right that America's population densitiy is somewhat more scattered around compared to Russia and China, where the vast majority lives in the west and east of the country respectively. I guess the same goes for Australia as well.

[Kanary]

30. You're asking some good questions, EldreEdda......been thinking about this

It's funny, I've been talking about this with an elderly friend of mine who is Czech, and just tonight was talking about this with another friend. It's really very puzzling.

One of the things my Czech friend says is that USians are too rich. I really believe that is true....... there isn't a natural inclination to empathize with poor folk, because the economic gap is so huge. However, from what I see, the Europeans are fairly well off, also. Not as ostentatious, but..... comfortable.

It's really hard to pinpoint it, and I hope that you will offer your viewpoint. Would really like to hear from other Europeans about this.

Either that, or just adopt me as a citizen of your country. :)

Kanary

[EldreEdda]

33. Hi again Kanary :)

Apparently alot of different answers have come up as an answer to this question, I think that's very interesting. Seems like it's very hard to pinpoint on anything exact really...As to what your Czech friend says, I would ask again: but why do the americans accept such an economic gap (not everyone does accept it of course)? which again leads to: Why are they so right-wing? Why that "tax is stealing" mentality?

P.S. It's not paradise here either :) In fact, I would love to live a few years in the US, so we could switch if you really want to. :)

[Kanary]

40. Hey, EldreEdda, I live close to my beloved mountains, so.....

you might enjoy living here for a while. :) :hi: :) It really is very beautiful in the mountains here. And, I like cold weather rather than hot, so........ maybe a switch would be a really good thing. :)

I'll ask my Czech friend to say more, but for tonight, my reply.... When you have lots of money, are quite comfortable, and really do feel that you've accomplished it all with your own efforts, then you tend to not have much sympathy for someone who hasn't made it to the point where you have. Otherwise, you'd have to credit your success more to luck rather than your own efforts, and people here just don't want to do that. (I know that one thing I like about my Czech friend is that he often says he has been quite lucky. I find that very pleasant to be around........ much nicer than the puffed up ego stuff.....)

The other friend was saying tonight that USians now are so well off that they just wouldn't even know how to cope with hard times. They wouldn't be able to pull together and make it through a depression, like the older generation did. I think she may well be right about that. We just don't do teamwork very well. IT's sooo sad.

Maybe we can find some books that address this, and find some answers to why this country is so #__*#&#@!!! pig-headedly conservative. I don't know if knowing why would point to any answers as to what to do, but........

Kanary

[unkachuck]

32. because....

the Central Committee of the Capitalist Party, Washington, D.C. likes it that way.....

I think we are basicly a one-party political/economic state....the Dems and Repubs, little more than the A and B wings of the Central Committee of the Capitalist Party....

We only 'pretend' we are democratic and tolerate political diversity....we talk loudly and continuously as though we had 'real' choices to make....we go to the polls and 'pretend' to vote and the Capitalists 'pretend' they've been democratically elected.....another 'election' cycle American style....lots of fire and smoke, but never any 'real' change....

Yes, debate rages as the Good-Cops (Dems) v.s. the Bad-Cops (Repubs)....but where is our Universal Healthcare coverage they've been threatening to pass for 50 years?....50 years after most of the civilized/industrialized world has provided it to their people....

[Dark]

39. Welcome to DU unkachuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi:

[newyawker99]

51. Hi unkachuck!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Dark]

37. I think it stems from a 'rebellious youth' style.

When our country was founded the patriots (rebels) had an extreme aversion towards Europe. They hated it and everything about it. So, where Europe was totalitarian and conservative, they became liberal and free. As time went on, Americans continued to feel the anti-Europe sentiments, evident in proclimations and legislation such as the Monroe Doctrine. The U.S. didn't want anything to do with Europe. It had separated itself. It did everything it could to distance itself from Europe, its 'motherland'.

You may say that Canada and Austrailia also did this. But I remind you that they were peaceful and mutual separations. The American Revolution was not. That war and the 1812 war created an anti-Europe feeling which passed into every generation.

You may think the World Wars are evidince against my claims, but they are further proof of America's continued anti-Europe bias. We had to be practically drug into WWI. And WWII, Germany actually declared war on us. After WWII and the Marshall plan, Europe became more liberal in the west. During the Cold War, the anti-Europe sentiments amalgamated with the anti-Communism ones, so they were less noticiable. But after the fall of the USSR, they began to focus again on Europe.

The sentiment isn't so much a hatred now as a simple aversion. The GOP doesn't want to kill Europeans, they just don't want to have to deal with them or rationality.

If you still doubt me, look at some Republican responses when they debate Social Security. They don't tell you to move to Austrailia, despite its famous liberalism, or Canada, with its renowned medical system. They say, "If you don't like America so much, why don't you move to Europe?"

Every time I hear that,I want to rip out someone's spine and give them an enema with it while doing riverdance on their bare toes with baseball kleets. :mad: :grr: :mad:

[Dark]

41. Also, I believe that the right wing stems from selfishness as well.

Which comes from the fact, as others have pointed out, that Americans don't live in close proximity to one another. Thus, many middle class people don't know the poor.

[pansypoo53219]

38. because of our 'youth

the puritan pilgrims who got here in the beginning.
and religious freedom.
in eurp, you have a state religion, so everybody is more political. here we don't and we are less political and more religious.

[historian]

47. sheer ignorance and false sense of superiority

[jason_au]

49. Well there's one difference.....

Well, one major difference I can think of is that to win an election in Australia you have to get more votes than your opponent....

But seriously, I think the rightward drift of all western democracies - a drift particularly strong in the US - comes about as the result of public fear. It's particularly difficult for us as individuals to come to terms with a world we have very little control over. Right-wing parties present us with strong leaders who provide certainty. You can see this in the glorification of "moral courage" against the popular sentiment, and the general edification of will-power. Most would note that these same characteristics could be described of the Nazi party and also Mussolini's Fascists.

Our own Prime Minister has even gone so far as to brag about his contempt of democracy by saying he is "not poll-driven" - that is, he doesn't care what the population thinks. The public, in this worldview, is a morally flawed rabble which needs to be led -against its will if necessary - by the "men of best quality".

But let's take another example. The father of one of my friends was recently diagnosed with bowel cancer here in Australia. The had no health insurance (which we call "private health insurace") but were able to get world-class treatment through our public health system, at zero cost to themselves. Ask yourself what happens in the US if someone is diagnosed with cancer who does not have large amounts of money or health insurance.

I can only think that this must subconciously weigh on the minds of many American people, a gnawing fear that they don't acknowledge consciously, but is there none-the-less. This total lack of control must be quite destabilising, and I think one of the ways this fear manifests itself is in the massive religion found in America. I guess the subconscious rationale is that if you believe - and really believe - that God will take care of you, then you don't need to worry about the fact you don't have health insurance.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Some of you might recognise the thinking of being heavily influenced by Ehrich Fromm, which it is.

Cheers,

Jason