Judy Woodruff: Alexander Hamilton was a Republican.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

Umm, Judy, Hamilton died in 1804, the Republican party was founded in 1854.


What an idiot.

[hatrack]

1. No, Judy, he was a Federalist

What a dumbass (Woodruff, not Hamilton).

[gasperc]

4. I thought it was WHIG

:beer:

[elperromagico]

6. No, he was a Federalist.

The Whig party grew out of opposition to Jackson, IIRC.

[Jacobin]

2. Time for another email campaign???

:bounce:


She just ate dirt on her statement that Raygun was the most popular president.

[redqueen]

7. Each and EVERY time you see or hear soemthing so ridiculous

it's worth an e-mail.

Demand quality journalism!

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tishaLA]

10. Best laugh of my day

thank you

[fertilizeonarbusto]

14. My pleasure

Any day I get to insult her is a happy day for me too.

[Bake]

40. Then make it a daily thing!

And always be happy! "Back alley whore!" Love it!

Bake

[Feanorcurufinwe]

72. WTF? since when is it against the rules to attack Judy Woodruff?

A post deleted for calling Judy Woodruff "back alley whore" -

:wtf:

that's not against any rule.

[elperromagico]

5. Yeah, and Abraham Lincoln was a Democrat.

The parties have shifted considerably since the 19th century. It's rather silly to apply modern labels to 19th century political figures, IMHO.

[Jacobin]

9. So true.

Barry Goldwater today would be considered a "freedom hating leftie terraist"

[Feanorcurufinwe]

11. No, Lincoln was a Republican, the first Republican President

He ran against a Democrat, Stephen Douglas.

http://www.multied.com/elections/1860.html


Of course the politics and policies are different, but our Democratic Party is the same one founded by Thomas Jefferson in 1792:
http://www.democrats.org/about/history.html

http://www.rnc.org/About/GOPHistory/Default.aspx

[elperromagico]

13. Watch the balloon as it goes over your head.

I'm making the point that it's stupid to apply a modern title to a 19th century politician, as ideologies have shifted.

Lincoln, were he around today, might be more comfortable in the Democratic Party. But to say that about Lincoln is pure conjecture, and as silly as saying Hamilton was a Republican. He wasn't.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

22. You are right that it would be dumb to ideologically label

a historical figure. However, party identification is not an ideological label, no matter how common this misconception is.

Party membership is about being a member of the party, it is totally unrelated to ideology. Yes, it is a historical fact that Lincoln was a Republican. That statement says absolutely nothing about Lincoln's ideology.

[elperromagico]

54. You're still missing my point.

Woodruff called Hamilton a Republican. I assume it's a reference to his ideology. If so, it's a poor one, as Hamilton favored a strong national government. But still, she is applying a modern standard to a long-dead political figure.

Applying that same standard (let's call it "the Woodruff Standard," shall we?) to Lincoln, it would not be at all incorrect to call Lincoln a Democrat. Is it accurate historically speaking? No, of course it isn't. Lincoln was a Republican. But with Woodruff's idiotic standard, he could be called a Democrat.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

65. No, I understand your point. It's wrong, imo.

Woodruff called Hamilton a Republican. I assume it's a reference to his ideology.
That assumption is the crux of your error. 'Republican' is a reference to party. There is no such ideology.

[Walt Starr]

67. If you look at the transcript, it's slightly possible you're wrong, too.

The context can almost be a quote of Mitch McConnell, although she doesn't state she's quoting McConnell.

More than likely, though, you are correct and she just fucked up royally.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

68. That is to say, if you change the wording of the transcript

than it could indicate she is quoting. However, if you just read it, without changing the words, it says:

WOODRUFF: Suggestions on ways to pay tribute to the late President Reagan are growing. California Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, a speechwriter in the Reagan White House, wants to put Reagan on the $20 bill, replacing Democrat Andrew Jackson. That idea joins an earlier suggestion to put Reagan's face on the dime, replacing Franklin Roosevelt. And Kentucky senator, Mitch McConnell, says that he's going to continue to try to get the former president on the $10 bill, instead of one-time Treasury Secretary, Republican Alexander Hamilton.
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0406/09/ip.00.html

No quotes, and the wording does not indicate she is quoting.

[Walt Starr]

69. Read the sentence

And Kentucky senator, Mitch McConnell, says that he's going to continue to try to get the former president on the $10 bill, instead of one-time Treasury Secretary, Republican Alexander Hamilton.

Not a quote, but there's an easy out for her to attribute the claim that Alexander Hamilton was Republican to Mitch McConnell.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

70. I don't really understand what your point is here - Woodruff is an idiot

who said Alexander Hamilton was a Republican. Sure, I agree with you, she could blame her mistake on someone else if she wants. So what?

[Walt Starr]

71. Then it slides off her dumb ass

Of course, if she did make the claim, then the question would be, "why didn't you quote McConnell directly, you dumb ass media whore?"

You are absolutely correct about one thing, though. Looking at the transcript, there is abslutely no way she used the term "Republican" to try and tie Hamilton's ideology to modern Republicans.

[Oddman]

44. Not only would Lincoln be considered a Democrat in our time

he would be a LIBERAL Democrat!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

46. No, it would be up to him which party to join.

[elperromagico]

16. I disagree with you about the original Democratic Party as well.

The Democratic Party was the pro-slavery, anti civil-rights, states rights party. It's not those things now. And those are just three examples of how the party has changed since its foundation.

Yes, the politics and policies have changed, but what is a political party if not politics and policies?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

27. Party membership and ideology are two totally different concepts.

what is a political party if not politics and policies?

A political party is made up of the people in it. That is why you can have Democrats who disagree on all the issues you see argued on DU. Because you don't have to agree with any particular ideology in order to be in the Democratic party. All you have to do is say: "I am a Democrat"

[H2O Man]

35. The republican party was started

in large part out of a coalition of Free Soil leaders, the NYS Anti-Rent Movement (a great part of American history that is hardly known), abolitionists, Whigs, and dissident democrats. An Irish immigrant, Thomas Devyr, suggested naming the new party "republican" in honor of Thomas Jefferson. It is interesting to see that in almost every way, the democratic and republican parties have become the exact opposite of what they once were. There were, at the time of the Civil War, a large number of political parties.

[lanparty]

58. Ironic ...

In modern terms, Jefferson would be a cross between Libertarian and Democrat.

Washington would be an independent. He didn't believe in political parties.

I agree with Wudroff though. Hamilton was a bit of an aristocratic prick. In modern terms, he'd definitely be a Republican. In fact, I dare say that Alan Greenspan is Hamilton re-incarnated.

[elperromagico]

55. We still disagree.

If political parties are nothing but people claiming a political party, then why have political parties? I simply disagree with your rather broad definition of what a political party should be.

Political parties are built on ideas, concepts, and core beliefs. People join a party, or claim themselves as members of a party, because the beliefs and principles of that party are the ones most closely aligned to their own.

Does every member of a party agree with every single belief? No. But those beliefs do exist, and I cannot look at the Democratic Party of 1860 (or even 1960, in the South at least) and say that it is the same party as today.

I daresay that most of us here at DU would have been Lincoln Republicans in 1860, and that most of those over at Free Republic would have been Breckinridge or Douglas Democrats. The two parties have undeniably shifted since then.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

61. If your interpretation were correct,

Zell Miller would be a Republican and Lincoln Chaffee would be a Democrat.

But since in reality, what makes someone a Democrat is saying they are a Democrat, and what makes a Republican is saying they are are Republican, Zell Miller is actually a Democrat and Lincoln Chaffee is actually a Republican.

Stubborn things, facts.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Wright Patman]

29. She did look

a lot better 20 years ago when she was working for NBC. You can't say she slept her way to the top as she married Al Hunt of the Wall Street Journal after she had already established herself as a network correspondent.

I don't watch CNN, but I would wager she still is rather easy on the eyes compared to (I Ate The) Candy Crowley.

[frank frankly]

31. she is nasty

she probably smokes cigars with the boys, putting them out on the "help"

i just asked a student if Hamilton was a Republican. he looked puzzled and said that the repubs didn't exist then. bravo!!!

[hatrack]

12. Just emailed them

"Judy Woodruff just stated that Alexander Hamilton was a Republican. Huh?

Alexander Hamilton was a Federalist. The Republican Party did not come into existence until 1854.

This is high school civcs-level stuff, and Ms. Woodruff should know better."

I feel much better now!

[Jacobin]

15. E-Mail Addy???? Puhleeze?

I would like to send mine in too

[Walt Starr]

18. Here's a link

BLAST HER WHORE ASS!!!

http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?6

[hatrack]

21. Pile on, y'all!

If there's anyone in the Beltway Bubble with a big fat "Kick me!" sign taped to her big dumb ass, it's Woodruff, and she just bent over.

[tishaLA]

23. Sent n/t

[playahata1]

53. Just zapped her a nice fat one.

I am so glad I got out of (print) journalism when I did.

[Bandit]

43. Thanks for the link

Here is the e-mail I dashed off


I could not believe my ears when I heard Ms. Woodruff proclaim that Alexander Hamilton was a Republican. I also heard her say that Reagan was the most popular president. Both statements are plain bold-faced lies. Is that what CNN represents in this day and age. If these two very easily disproved statements are made so easily what else do you put out there that has the same element of truth? You are beginning to demonstrate as much "Honor and Dignity" as the Cabal presently occupying the Whitehouse.

[Jacobin]

47. Here's mine. Hey, this can be fun!!!

"Apparently, Judy Woodruff's fact checking has been outsourced to Karl Rove. Please advise the vaunted Ms. Woodruff that Alexander Hamilton was not a republican. Mr. Hamilton died in 1804. The republican party was not started until 1854. Please remind Ms. Woodruff that Mr. Hamilton was famous for, among other reasons, writing The Federalist Papers, since he was.......wait for it.....a Federalist and not a republican.

You guys are simply beyond belief in your pandering to the White House. Your credibility is now on a par with that of Fox News, i.e. non-existent."

[Beacho]

17. Uh Gee, Judy

Hamilton aka 'publius' author of the Federalist Papers?

[WI_DEM]

19. Hamilton believed in a strong centralized government

where the GOP is supposed to favor a weak centeralized government.

[Fenris]

20. And Cinco de Mayo celebrates Mexican Independence!

Judy knows her history!

EDIT: Superfluous apostrophe.

[Walt Starr]

24. Here's my blast at Woodruff

Once again Judy Woodruff demonstrates her incredibly high ignorance level. She erroneously claimed Alexander Hamilton was a Republican. Come on Judy! Alexander Hamilton was born in 1755 and died in 1804 (from a bullet wound suffered in a duel with Aaron Burr). He was a member of the Federalist Party.

He also died nearly fifty years before the Republican Party was even founded!

Come on, CNN, get your act together. This is sixth grade civics!

SHEESH!

[Cocoa]

25. don't let your kids watch CNN

it will warp their minds.

[Beacho]

26. had to respond

"Hamilton a Republican?

Uh Judy? The GOP was founded in 1854, Hamilton died in 1804. Hamilton was a federalist. Maybe some similiarities, but some major differences, especially with todays' GOP. Hamilton would recoil at the religious pandering of this party and this president."

[predsfan32479]

28. That, and she didn't even correct Grover Norquist yesterday

when he said that AH was "the only non-president on currency." Hey Grover, ever heard of Benjamin "$100" Franklin?

[redqueen]

36. Good catch !

Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[West Coast Democrat]

41. Was he talking about just major currency?

I'm thinking of Susan B. and Sacagawea....

[Logansquare]

51. And Salmon P. Chase on the $10,000 bill, Sacagawea $1.00

sigh...
I wouldn't object if they replaced old Salmon with Raygun--only Columbian drug lords will see him, and that's somehow appropriate.

[David__77]

30. I think that there is some truth to the statement--he was like Lincoln.

But "Republican" was the progressive party in much of the latter 19th century. The Democrats were then the party of slavery and free trade, while Republicans, especially of the Radical variety, advocated protectionism and redistribution of land to the former slaves and other progressive reforms of Reconstruction.

Hamilton was a "Republican" in the sense that he advocated a strong state in order to safeguard the general welfare--exactly the opposite of the "Republican Party" of today.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

32. Party is not ideology. There is no grain of truth in Woodruff error.

The Republican party did not exist while Hamilton was alive. Hamilton was not a Republican, he was a Federalist. Woodruff is an idiot.

[Walt Starr]

33. If you want to get really technical, it sort of existed

as the Democratic-Republican party founded by Jefferson.

Of course, that went on to be shortened to the Democratic Party.

:evilgrin:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

37. Actually as you yourself have shown, if you get technical, no.

The party founded by Jefferson was, as you point out, the Democratic party of today, not the Republican party.

History of the Republican party (the GOP version): http://www.rnc.org/About/GOPHistory/Default.aspx
History of the Democratic party (the DNC version): http://www.democrats.org/about/history.html

[Walt Starr]

39. That's my whole point, both parties claim direct lineage to Jefferson

Of course, history bears out the Democratic Party being the actual direct link to Jefferson's own party, but never tell a Republican that.

:evilgrin:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

45. Well your point is wrong. The Republicans DO NOT claim that.

As you would have seen if you'd followed the link I provided to the GOP's version of their own history, the Republicans do not claim direct lineage to Jefferson:

The Republican Party was born in the early 1850's by anti-slavery activists and individuals who believed that government should grant western lands to settlers free of charge. The first informal meeting of the party took place in Ripon, Wisconsin, a small town northwest of Milwaukee. The first official Republican meeting took place on July 6th, 1854 in Jackson, Michigan. The name "Republican" was chosen because it alluded to equality and reminded individuals of Thomas Jefferson's Democratic-Republican Party. At the Jackson convention, the new party adopted a platform and nominated candidates for office in Michigan.
http://www.rnc.org/About/GOPHistory/Default.aspx (emphasis added)

[Walt Starr]

48. I read it, and I'm not disagreeing with you

My original post pointed out the name "Republican" was a part of the name of the original Democratic Party.

Oddly enough, that was the party in opposition to Hamilton's Federalist Party.

Sorry if I got your goat. Fact is, most Republicans will still claim direct lineage to Jefferson simply because "Republican" was a part of the Party's name prior to the split under John Quincy Adams.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

59. LOL

Sorry if I got your goat.

I always think it is funny when someone's reaction to being shown to be in error is an attempt to paint me as upset -- merely because I am the one who pointed out that error.

No, you didn't 'get my goat' -- you simply made a mistake. It happens to everyone.


You did in fact say: That's my whole point, both parties claim direct lineage to Jefferson


and that is in fact wrong.

And you repeat it here: Fact is, most Republicans will still claim direct lineage to Jefferson

no, that's not a fact -- it is simply wrong. I challenge you to provide at least one (which of course would not actually prove your assertion of 'most') Republican's words in which he makes the claim you assert.

[Walt Starr]

60. I don't think you've discussed this with many Republicans

because the debate we are having is nothing to the debate I;ve had with dozens of Republicans who claimed Thomas Jefferson founded the Republican Party.

SERIOUSLY!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

63. Which is just a way of saying you can't back up your false assertion. nt

[Walt Starr]

64. Not a false assertion

Anecdotal though, admittedly.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

66. Whatever - you made an assertion which you cannot provide a

citation for, which is directly contradicted by the citation I provided.

[H2O Man]

49. Not really true.

Without going into too much detail, I'd suggest reading "Tin Horns & Calico," by H. Christman, Hope Farm Press, NY. It's about the Anti-Rent War in NYS. The Anti-Renters, who opposed the Hamiltonians who were a few families , intricately intermarried, who had turned 2 million acres west of the Hudson into a semi-feudal state. Many of the 300,000 people who paid rent to landlords formulated by Alexander Hamilton himself, had relatives who had fought in the Revolutionary War less than 50 years earlier.
Long story short: one of the inspired leaders of the ARW was Thomas Devyr, an Irish immigrant (with a connection to my family). The Anti-Renters, along with abolitionists, Free Soil-ers, dissident democrats, and others would form a coalition. Devyr was the fellow who suggested the name "republican" as a tribute to his hero, Thomas Jefferson. Men like Devyr would have strongly opposed bush, etc.

[H2O Man]

42. More than that, he believed that the rich

were entitled to far more power in society than a true democracy would allow. Although he died in before the Anti-rent War in central New York State, the ultra-rich landlords of the day were "Hamiltonians," and he had actually authored some of the legal contracts that created a landed gentry and a peasant population in NYS. The Anti-Rent War was known as the Second American Revolutionary War in the 1800s, but it has generally been "lost" in our history books. (Guess why?)

[West Coast Democrat]

34. I'm convinced she's just putting these out there as a test....

to see whether anyone is actually paying attention to, or watching her show.

[Hubert Flottz]

38. Alexander Hamilton was a gun slinger Reagan was a play actor.

who played a gun slinger! Alexander = Real! Reagan = Fake!

Why would you replace real with Bogus, when it comes to money, unless you were a crook?

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

57. but Aaron Burr was the better shot!

LOL...

....seriously, one does wonder about people like Woodruff to make a comment like that.

[CO Liberal]

50. CO Liberal: "Judy Woodruff is an Idiot"

:-)

[TahitiNut]

52. As "the" Federalist, Hamilton supported a strong central government.

The opposing party, the Democratic-Republicans headed by Jefferson, opposed the stong federal positions of the Federalists in favor of state sovereignty and individual liberties.

Sound familiar?

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

56. did she really say that...without contex?

color me suprised, esp since she used to be on public broadcasting. I thought the PBS/NPR reporters knew their shit better....

[Feanorcurufinwe]

62. Here is the quote from the transcript:

WOODRUFF: Suggestions on ways to pay tribute to the late President Reagan are growing. California Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, a speechwriter in the Reagan White House, wants to put Reagan on the $20 bill, replacing Democrat Andrew Jackson. That idea joins an earlier suggestion to put Reagan's face on the dime, replacing Franklin Roosevelt. And Kentucky senator, Mitch McConnell, says that he's going to continue to try to get the former president on the $10 bill, instead of one-time Treasury Secretary, Republican Alexander Hamilton.
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0406/09/ip.00.html