Very Disappointed

[louis c]

I thought that DU would advance the cause of defeating Bush. Even in the posting rules you said you would eliminate any message that did not advance our cause. I feel I can do more good spending time working for John Kerry than getting so upset with reading anti-Kerry remarks here. This is Democratic Underground, and for some reason I thought the emphasis was on being a Democrat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when was the last time Nader was a Democrat. Please convince me that the most recent posts for that asshole Nader were an aberration or I will be forced to no longer participate in this forum. You see, all day long I try to convince people I meet to defeat the President. I thought this site was in line with my efforts, and we could share ideas for the next day's battles. But if I have to put up with the same bullshit here as I do during the day, I am better off resting up for tomorrow's fight.

[TrueAmerican]

1. You're right

Don't let the Naderites intimidate you.

[Terran]

2. Sorry, there's no rule here

that says everybody must support Kerry. Me, I think you'd be insane not too, but there's that dern free speech thing goin' on, ya know. Don't be a wuss just because someone here doesn't care for Kerry.

[sendero]

12. Supposedly...

... you have to be a Dem to post here, or be pro Dem at least. Nader is not a Dem and is as anti Dem as any GOP'er, so why the owners of the board don't delete posts about him is beyond me.

As for dissing Kerry, one can be a Dem and not be particularly impressed with Kerry. I have not engaged in much criticism of Kerry since he "won" the nomination, but self-criticism is important. If we all agree about everything, what is the point of being here?

[Terran]

17. Nader is still a progressive, technically

despite his assholish insistence on remaining in this race. As I have always understood it, DU is broadly dedicated to the principles of Progressives, not just to the Democratic Party. Thus, Nader supporters are given their right to stay here. I do believe that anyone who flat out expresses a desire for Bush to win (as opposed to support for Nader) will get their butts banned.

[Seeking Serenity]

28. Agreed

If this board were strictly limited for Democrats or those who only vote for Democrats, well, then we'd have to welcome Zell Miller voters, but kick out more ideologically akin Greens.

That seems kind of backward, if you ask me.

[Walt Starr]

3. Later

Threats to leave unless DUers do or don;t do something really don't go over well here.

BTW, those of us who really really really despise Kerry are mostly going to vote for the guy, not to mention send his campaign cash, put his bumper sticker on our cars, put his sign in our yards, and try to convince fence sitters that Bush has to go and Kerry is the only way to do it, but that doesn't matter to you because you're obviously taking your ball an going home.

[David Dunham]

4. Excellent point. We all need to help Kerry win the swing states

An LA Times poll just out shows Kerry leading nationally 51%-44%, but he is even with Bush in the key swing states of OH and WI and losing MO. That means that there is a possibility that he could win the popular vote by a greater margin than Gore but still lose the electoral college unless he has enough organized support in the swing states (where Bush backers are already well organized). We need to help Kerry win the swing states.

[Kazak]

22. Don't want ot get too overconfident here, but...

I could envision Kerry sneaking out with a couple of states that he's not expected to win and pull in the swing states rather simply. I don't feel a whole lot of support nationally for ShrubCo that the polls would suggest.

Democrats have got to turn out the vote, it's that simple, and I expect turnout to be high.

[Forkboy]

5. Oh quit weeping

99.99% of the Nader threads are by people who hate him.

If you're going to go just go already.If you going to stay buck up and deal with opinions that dont always match yours.

[Octafish]

6. Relax! You should have been here a year ago.

We were down to just a few hard-core Kerry supporters.
Most of us toughed it out.
And look at us now!
There's a whole bandwagon full.
Ha ha ha ha.
We're goin' to Washin'ton!

Ha ha ha ha (Democratic donkey laugh)!!!!

You know who's really scared?



"Governor, you're going to jail."

[Walt Starr]

10. Yup, Kerry's gonna take the White House!

and I'm trying to help him take it regardless of how I feel about him.

There's a lot more at stake this go around than anything making ideological purity an important consideration.

BTW, If I were to have but three possible choices, Bush, Kerry, and Nader, and voted for the one of those three closest to my own ideology, Kerry would still have to get my vote.

[senseandsensibility]

7. I can see your point

And I feel the same way sometimes myself. I can't believe any Democrat would give Nader the time of day. But what is the option, really? We're Democrats. We believe in free and open debate. So as angry as it makes me sometimes, I don't want us to be the liberal version of Freepers. Give it a little more time. I'll think you'll find the kind of posts you're looking for. Sometimes these things go in waves.;-)

[louis c]

15. But When

does the debate end and the unified campaigning begin. The other side seems to get it. We all got involved in the process. I supported Gephart, the Union guy, but it's over and it's time to pull together to defeat our common enemy. This is the equivalent of war, and decent now, to me, is equivalent to treason because their's too much at stake.

[Forkboy]

16. "and decent [sic} now, to me, is equivalent to treason"

Bush and Ashcroft agree with you citizen.

[Gildor Inglorion]

20. Please stay and post and contribute your ideas...

we need every (small d) democrat, every (capital D) Democrat, every liberal, every progressive, every union member, every environmentalist, and yes, even some freakin' Naderites to beat the evil bu*h empire. Nothing less than the survival of civilization is at stake (I really truly mean that!). Four more years of these monsters and America is gone forever.

[senseandsensibility]

21. I know what you mean

but I wouldn't call it treason. But, you're right, there's too much at stake for squabbling. We need to come together because our strength is in numbers. The unions achieved so much for all of us by sticking together: The forty hour work week, paid vacations, child labor laws, workplace safety, we all just take it for granted now. Corporations would never have GIVEN us any of this. People suffered and died for it. It's my opinion that we have to take back our government in the same way, through unity and sheer numbers. That's what we have going for us. If we refuse to use it....

[Leprechan29]

8. The rules specify

only that posters be progressive - not necessarily democrats. That said, I think you will find that most people here will support John Kerry regardless of actual political affiliation

[Cleita]

9. This infighting has been going on since the first day I arrived at

DU and it will probably be that way right up to the election. There are a lot of good reasons to stay at DU. For the annoying stuff use the ignore functions. It makes your experience much better.

[WilliamPitt]

11. The place of definitions

This is the place where you go to take everything an opponent of Kerry can throw at you, and then either bat down the arguments, or decide you can live with whatever got the other person going. I have found my support for Kery has been magnified a thousandfold by all the mudfights and madness of primary season. The stuff that'sd happening now is pretty tame by comparison.

The people who are pissing you off are not bad people. Some are still roiled by the defeat of their chosen candidate, but most have genuine bones to pick with Kerry. They're actually very good people...and remember: Whenever you find yourself screaming at someone who agress with 95% of what you believe in, one of you might be a zealot. :)

If you take away the sand, you don't get the pearls.

[senseandsensibility]

13. I also wanted to say

we need more union voices and working people's voices around here, Brother. I, for one, would appreciate any union-related news or strategies that you have to post.

[LTR]

14. It's just a message board

With thousands of people here, you'll alwaysrun into a few negative cranks.

I'm sure you'll find that the majority here will do anything in their power to ensure a Kerry win in November.

[Solly Mack]

18. Why should anyone try to convince you that differing opinions

are an aberration just to mollify your feelings?

While I applaud your efforts to defeat Chucklenuts, your efforts in no way entitle you to issue ultimatums.

"If you wanna leave you just leave..if you wanna go you just go...if you wanna leave you just take all the money and all the lawyers...it's an adult situation...I'm gonna handle it like an adult."

(Tom Petty Rules the Pit!)

[dweller]

26. let him up

he's had enough...

dp

[louis c]

29. Bye Now.

I can see you just don't get it. I'll fight my fight in my own way, leave you all and wish you good luck. This site should never have allowed pro-Nader comments in an attempt to defeat George Bush. I have no time to waste on such nonsense. I stumbled on to DU because I thought I could learn more in my effort to defeat Bush. However, I'm afraid this Nader crap makes me think I have learned more on how Kerry could lose. I hope you end up with another Union voice to give you the perspective of working people who form the Base of the Democratic party. The next time I will log on will be Nov. 3, 2004. Let's hope we can all celebrate.

[Forkboy]

30. Damn differing opinions!

:eyes:

[Solly Mack]

32. Yes..I just don't get it

I'm also a radical, the leftist fringe, and a pinko commie liberal to boot.



Let me tell you what I don't get...people who expect everyone within the liberal/democratic community to see things the exact same way.

people who post "or else" posts.

You're hardly the only "working class" perspective on this board.
Instead of jumping to conclusions about people why not spend more time getting to know the DU community.

You form an opinion from a few posts and then go on to tell people to give you a reason to stay or else (you're taking your toys and leaving) simply because you're disappointed not everyone here marches to your drumbeat.

[Djinn]

34. don't let the door hit you on the ass

Seriously don't know how anyone thinks a few people suggesting that Kerry isn't the best candidate, or is a bit too centrist for them on a leftie forum is going to hurt his chances of beating Bush at all.

Does anyone think there's a mass of swing voters out there coming to DU to have their minds made up for them!

[0rganism]

19. Relax. By the time the convention rolls around, we'll be on the same page

We're just now coming out of a rather contentious 9-way primary race. Some people are still grouchy about the outcome.

That doesn't mean that we won't support the Democratic nominee.

If it's annoying you, maybe take a break from DU for the next few weeks and try again in July. This site can be a valuable source of information and organization.

[Walt Starr]

27. Nah, I doubt it will even take that long, for the most part

DUers are smart enough to see reality. There is but one way to vote if you truly want to see the chimp gone regardless of how you feel about that person.

[MercutioATC]

33. Actually, we won't...

As one DU'er so aptly put it, a vote for Kerry counts the same even if it's cast while holding your nose.

I will not "be on the same page". I'll vote for Kerry because he's not Bush, but I'm not happy about being put in this position. I'm not pro-Kerry and never will be - I'm just anti-Bush.

[Sporadicus]

23. I'm Saving My Criticism of Kerry

for November 3.

[crossroads]

24. Don't run off, I am on your side! I'm working for Kerry too...

I belong to several groups...DU is the most vocal and diverse, but you can get the message out here...
:dem:

[onecitizen]

25. It's pretty easy to......

recognize those posts that might inflame you right away. If they bother you, don't read them. You'll soon find out which posters are the ones most likely to post them. I don't like nader at all either. But you got to recognize the fact that some here will vote for him. It's their right to do so. I'll leave when those rights are taken away.

[flaminbats]

31. a post which says "No to Nader" is not the best way to start..

why not start with a list of reasons we need Kerry to be President?

1) We need a Democratic President to act as a check and balance on the Republican House.

2) Kerry would make available to all workers and employers guaranteed issue through the FEHBP. To hold down premiums, the federal government will reimburse companies for 75 percent of catastrophic claims - lowering premiums by almost 10 percent or up to $1,000 per family. No worker would be a prisoner in a job they didn't want to be in because of the fear of losing this healthcare, and no person would have to wait for health benefits because they had a pre-existing condition.

3) Having a leader who will make us proud again, nor embarrass us with lies about WMD or immoral excuses for the abuse and torture of prisoners.

4) We would once again have a President who would actively pursue a balanced budget and stopping the crime of piling our tax burdens onto future generations.

5) And Kerry would provide the nation with security from terrorism and crime, which this incompetent administration has been unable to control. There will be no more distractions by starting bloody and expensive wars, when the objective is to find bin Laden. And our troops would be brought home now that the Iraqi people are liberated and that security is also needed in this country! Republicans have a tendency to forget that our military exists to defend America from attacks, not to wage endless crusades!