Does Reagan get credit that should go to George Herbert Walker Bush?

[kentuck]

Seriously, Reagan gets credit for tearing down the Berlin Wall and ending the Cold War almost single-handedly. However, it was George Bush Sr who was the president when both events happened. Gorbachev had initiated the perestroika and glasnost policies while Reagan was president, but the Soviet Union did not actually fall until 1991. At that time, they were attempting to assist Saddam Hussein in the First Gulf War, but George Bush Sr had put together a coalition like none before in history and Saddam, and his Soviet weapons, were easily defeated. The Soviet Union disintegrated after that.

As most knowledgeable historians will note, the Soviet Union was collapsing before Reagan ever came to power. Their defense spending in the 1980's was flat and did not change because Reagan was spending more on the US military. The puzzle is why George Bush Sr, rather than Reagan, would not get credit from his fellow Repubs for the events that happened on his watch?

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http://www.white-history.com/hwr66ii.htm

<snip>
When the Communist Party chose Mikhail Gorbachev as its new leader in 1985, it had little idea of what he would do: he immediately launched a campaign aimed at transforming Soviet society, called perestroika ("restructuring") and glasnost' ("openness"). This included political reforms: by 1989, other candidates apart from Communist Party endorsed ones, were allowed to participate in elections for the Supreme Soviet parliament.

<snip>
Gorbachev withdrew Soviet troops from Afghanistan and signed agreements with American president George Bush to end production of chemical weapons and make substantial cuts in nuclear weapons. Finally in 1990, the Soviet Communist Party surrendered its hold on total power which Trotsky had taken in 1918, and allowed other political parties the freedom to operate.

<snip>

A desperate attempt by Communist hard-liners in 1991 to launch a coup against Gorbachev and his reforms failed, and pro-reformers under the former Communist Boris Yeltsin emerged as the new government of the day.

On December 21, 1991, the USSR formally ceased to exist, splitting up into 11 distinct ethnic and racially separate units: - Armenia, Azerbaijan, Byelorussia (renamed Belarus), Kazakstan, Kirghiziya (renamed Kyrgyzstan), Moldavia (renamed Moldova), Russia, Tadzhikistan (renamed Tajikistan), Turkmenia (renamed Turkmenistan), Ukraine, and Uzbekistan. They all agreed to form the loosely defined Commonwealth of Independent States.

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[BlackActivist]

1. No

Had Bush got the credit, Clinton would have lost in 1992. The Cold War was won more by Reagan than by Bush, but absolutely a lot more people played a role in the American's "victory".

[lanparty]

2. America didn't win ...

The Soviets lost FIRST!!!!! Thats what you get for buying too many guns and not enough butter.

[kentuck]

3. The truth is that Democratic and Republican presidents for 50 years...

and the policy of containment, led to the inevitable collapse of the Soviet system. No one man won the Cold War. Now that's the truth you will not find on FOX TV... :)

[izzie]

8. We did fight it for a few years before Reagan.

The people old enough to know that wondered how come the CIA did not know the USSR was coming apart from the inside out. We also wondered why The DOD got so much money we went into debt. A lot of what we are reading is new history or put out for the and by the Republicans.

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. herbert walker only gets credit for losing the election to Bill

In the minds of the GOP, what did you do for me lately, nobody likes a loser. It wouldn't have mattered if the guy had cured cancer before that.

Seriously tho, nether bush or rayguns had any idea that the USSR was going to fold. It wasn't part of any strategy. The strategy was simply to enrich their supporters with huge contracts and tax breaks. The fall was incidental and unanticipated.

[lovedems]

5. A little off topic, but I saw some dipshit congress person on CNN

yesterday or the day before who was saying that, "it wasn't Clinton's policies that grew the economy in the 90's, it was Rayguns tax cuts *finally* taking effect."

I almost fell out of my chair because that has to be the most assinine thing I have heard when it comes to Clinton bashing! I couldn't believe my ears. I think republicans would credit him with creationism if they thought they could get away with it.:shrug:

[kentuck]

6. That's why some say kind words about JFK...

Because he was like Reagan, he believed that cutting taxes was the best way to grow the economy...But somehow, they would like to give Reagan credit for JFK.. :)

[izzie]

10. In JFK days the tax rate on the top people was really high.

I can not recall the percent but I seem to recall like 55% my father paid and he was hardly rich just made a good income.I guess one would have to do some work on that. So if a man was paying that in middle income you can see how a lesser rate would help.

[thebigidea]

9. someone just argued that on another thread

I ended up taking over his role towards the end.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1766784

[lovedems]

12. What is wrong with people?

Hopefully you left him "thinking" after you all "ganged up on him". From what I gathered on fact check, Reagan raised taxes, here is a snip

But wait -- Reagan's cuts never fully took effect. They were scaled back in 1982 by a tax increase that averaged $37.5 billion over its first four years.

[phiddle]

7. Gorbachev's policies were more important than either

Reagan's or Bush's.

In the context of a failed and treasury-draining Afhgan policy, Gorbachev embarked on 2 changes, Glasnost (openness in terms of political thought and expression), and Perestroika (economic restructuring). Of the 2, Glasnost proceeded much more quickly---newspapers were unshackled, state run TV had more diverse opinions, KGB surveillance of the population was lessened. Perestoika proceeded much more slowly, as they didn't know how to make a transition to a market economy, and degenerated into a crony capitalism stripped of the social nets which existed under socialism, and made economic life a mess for most citizens. The result was both to give vent to, and to increase the dissatisfaction which the citizenry had held for years against the government, as well as to increase their economic expectations. (For a comparison, see Communist China's almost opposite policies, which have kept a tight rein on political expression---no Glasnost---even as they've embarked on radical economic restructuring.)

Carter's supporting the Afghan rebels, Reagan's armament spending pressure, and Bush's blandishments pale by comparison with Gorbachev's inability to deal realistically with the Soviet situation, IMHO.

[DaveSZ]

11. I've heard that too

Ditoheads say that all the time that Reagan's policies led to the 90's boom.