William Jefferson Clinton was an amazing President.

[robnycny]

I can't stop thinking about President Clinton's legacy and how tarnished it is/will be by the vast right wing conspiracy (so eloquently evoked by our former First Lady).

I suppose my Clinton distraction can be attributed to the absurd RWR mania... but, I write this post with a suggesttion for a DU salute to Bill.

Or maybe I'm crazy... regardless, I salute President Clinton and all he did for our world. And, his leadership will be what I think of tomorrow.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

1. No he wasn't.

He did that, that thing. What do you call it?.......Ah yes sex. Let's think of the children.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fone Book]

33. dont get hooked

n/t

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fone Book]

35. actually ur right- i shouldve been nicer

[wyldwolf]

44. Funny how the people here who don't like Clinton concentrate on...

...things he didn't accomplish, like universal healthcare. I read it here all the time - Clinton was bad because he didn't give us universal healthcare.

Guess what?

He didn't cure cancer.
He didn't invent an alternate fuel source.
He didn't reinvent the wheel.

Did he want to give us universal healthcare? All indications are that he did. You hold it against him that he couldn't do it? Should we go back and point out everything every president tried to do but couldn't deliver on?

You say he gave us NAFTA? Actually it was signed into law during Bush I's term. It was altered and refined during Clinton's tenure and like many things, it looked good on paper. Hind site is 20/20, folks.

Welfare reform? You bet! The idea was very popular with the American people at the time. Why? Because the public and the rightwing were intent on it. It was going to get done so thank whatever god you pray to Clinton was the president when it happened and GHW Bush wasn't. Clinton turned back several worse congressional versions before settling on a more moderate one.

Media deregulation? Leftover from Bush I and Reagan.

We often criticize the right for "revising" history. It seems some on the LEFT hated Clinton so much they ignore his vast accomplishments, sometimes denying they even happened, and overplay his hand in just few of their pet issues. Could it be that, just like the right, they can't stand that someone who isn't one of them could be so damn successful?

The Strongest Economy in a Generation. Longest Economic Expansion in U.S. History. In February 2000, the United States entered the 107th consecutive month of economic expansion -- the longest economic expansion in history.

21.2 million new jobs were created since 1993, the most jobs ever created under a single Administration -- and more new jobs than Presidents Reagan and Bush created during their three terms. 92 percent (19.4 million) of the new jobs were created in the private sector, the highest percentage in 50 years.

Fastest and Longest Real Wage Growth in Over Three Decades. In the last 12 months, average hourly earnings have increased 3.7 percent -- faster than the rate of inflation. The United States has had five consecutive years of real wage growth -- the longest consecutive increase since the 1960s. Since 1993, real wages are up 6.8 percent, after declining 4.3 percent during the Reagan and Bush years.

Unemployment was the lowest Nearly the Lowest in Three Decades.

Highest Homeownership Rate in History.

Lowest Poverty Rate in Two Decades. The poverty rate has fallen from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 12.7 percent in 1998. That's the lowest poverty rate since 1979 and the largest five-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years (1965-1970). The African-American poverty rate has dropped from 33.1 percent in 1993 to 26.1 percent in 1998 -- the lowest level ever recorded and the largest five-year drop in African-American poverty in more than a quarter century (1967-1972). The poverty rate for Hispanics is at the lowest level since 1979, and dropped to 25.6 percent in 1998.

Largest Five-Year Drop in Child Poverty Rate Since the ‘60s. Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, child poverty has declined from 22.7 percent in 1993 to 18.9 percent in 1998 -- the biggest five-year drop in nearly 30 years. The poverty rate for African-American children has fallen from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 36.7 percent in 1998 -- a level that is still too high, but is the lowest level in 20 years and the biggest five-year drop on record. The rate also fell for Hispanic children, from 36.8 percent to 34.4 percent - and is now 6.5 percentage points lower than it was in 1993.

Improved Access to Affordable, Quality Child Care and Early Childhood Programs.

Increased the Minimum Wage.

Enacted Single Largest Investment in Health Care for Children since 1965.

Extended Strong, Enforceable Patient Protections for Millions of Americans.

An environmental budget that included a record $1.4 billion for Lands Legacy -- a 93 percent increase and the largest one-year investment ever requested for conserving America’s lands.

So much more on the environment, families, the economy, education, crime, etc.

[Dogmudgeon]

47. Bravo!

Well said!

Better than I could say it myself -- and I've tried often.

This one's a keeper.

--bkl

[Killarney]

50. Bravo!

He did many great things. People seem to forget that he was hampered greatly by a Rethuglican congress that would rather shut the government down that give an inch to him.

[scarletlib]

71. 2nd that

Imagine what he could have accomplished if he hadn't been hounded constantly by the repugs.

I am amazed that he was able to accomplish all the things he did do.

I'll be buying his book as soon as it hits the stores.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

57. Now, you do get what I was saying, right? n/t

[Deja Q]

62. Minimum wage didn't help. But Clinton is not the problem.

$5.15/hr when the liveable wage is closer to $12/hr. When minimum wage goes up with no means of controlling what the corporations will do, they're going to raise their rates so they can keep their big salaries the same. And that's the problem: Corporate CEOs who will destroy small businesses and try to be their own monopoly, while not paying their employees decent wages.

People whine about IT folk, saying they whined too much for more money and that's why IT is being shipped to India. Bull shit. IT is considerable work, worth the pennies they put into it. The CEOs just want their $30 million bonuses attached to their 9 digit salaries, while finding ways to get their workers to do more and more for no wage increase.

24 years of rising graphs show a huge gulf between what a CEO gets and does and what workers do and make. I saw no 8 year repreive when Clinton took office, the gulf continued to get wider. With this, we have proof that Clinton did nothing for the middle class. Or maybe he wasn't in control or could do nothing, as he'd be seen as "big government" and get voted out.

:shrug: Clinton's not the problem. The American people are.

[KittyWampus]

63. Really Well Done Post

IMO, Clinton prevented things from getting desperately worse. I'm not sure that anyone else could have done any better.

The Neo-cons would have been working against WHOEVER the Democratic President would have been.

[JanMichael]

88. Do you honestly believe that Clinton made the Tech Boom happen?

Hell I voted for him twice (Tried to do it three times but was declined...I lived in Florida...) but wasn't the "Boom" more of a Societal/Technological thang than Clinton's th...Policy?

Sure I know there are people who worship Bill, and compared to Dubya he prolly deserves it, but I'm starting to wonder about those that ignore a worldwide Tecnology paradigm shift...

Oh and the Minimum Wage props are simple silk on a pig, meaningless.

[wyldwolf]

94. uh... yeah... partially, anyway

With the "Next Generation Internet" initiative, for one.

He planned for a U.S.-based non-profit company to take over DNS registrations and to govern top level domain names.

Expanded k-12 internet access.

Promoted global electronic commerce.

more..

http://usinfo.org/wf-archive/2001/010116/epf208.htm

[ulysses]

101. couple of things

You say he gave us NAFTA? Actually it was signed into law during Bush I's term.

No. It was signed by the heads of state during Bush I, but was approved by Congress in 1993 and signed into law by Clinton on December 8 of that year.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104566.html

Welfare reform? You bet! The idea was very popular with the American people at the time. Why? Because the public and the rightwing were intent on it. It was going to get done so thank whatever god you pray to Clinton was the president when it happened and GHW Bush wasn't. Clinton turned back several worse congressional versions before settling on a more moderate one.

Was it destined to happen? If so, was it only because the GOP wanted it? I'm sorry, but BC campaigned on a promise to end welfare "as we know it", and a moderate version of a bad law is still a bad law. It the kind of thing that happens when we acquiesce to what the right wing wants, only not quite so much.

[wyldwolf]

110. Response

No. It (NAFTA) was signed by the heads of state during Bush I, but was approved by Congress in 1993 and signed into law by Clinton on December 8 of that year.

Your link says:

"In three separate ceremonies in the three capitals on Dec. 17, 1992, President Bush, Mexican President Salinas, and Canadian Prime Minister Mulroney signed the historic North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)."

Yes, it was formally signed into law in 1993, but it was just a formality. When Bushed signed it in '92, we became constitutionally bound to it.

September 18, 1992
Bush notifies Congress of his intention to sign NAFTA. Congress has 90 days to study the agreement and recommend changes.


December 17, 1992
NAFTA is signed.


May 27 & June 23, 1993
Canada's Parliament is first to ratify NAFTA.


September 14, 1993
NAFTA "side deals" signed.


November 1993
NAFTA ratified by the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives, and the Mexican Senate.

http://jordan.fortwayne.com/ns/projects/nafta/naftac.php

And like I said, welfare reform was popular with the electorate. Clinton ran on it. Bush and the GOP were for it. Obviously the American people were, too, because they voted for Clinton.

[ulysses]

112. that's not how it works.

When Bushed signed it in '92, we became constitutionally bound to it.

No. Congress has to ratify treaties.

[Tim4319]

106. Remember what he had to battle!

While he was president he had to battle a Republican congress. So, many of the things he would like to have done was shot down in congress.

[durutti]

119. Bah!

Did he want to give us universal healthcare? All indications are that he did. You hold it against him that he couldn't do it? Should we go back and point out everything every president tried to do but couldn't deliver on?

Clinton cowardly retreated from his plan due to business opposition. Nonetheless, he kept the cuts in Medicaid and Medicare.

You say he gave us NAFTA? Actually it was signed into law during Bush I's term. It was altered and refined during Clinton's tenure and like many things, it looked good on paper. Hind site is 20/20, folks.

Right. If it happened under Clinton, then it "looked good on paper." If it happened under a Republican, then it was a conscious screwing-over of working people. Please! I don't think he's apologized for NAFTA, has he? He was just serving his corporate masters -- which is what he did best.

Welfare reform? You bet! The idea was very popular with the American people at the time. Why? Because the public and the rightwing were intent on it. It was going to get done so thank whatever god you pray to Clinton was the president when it happened and GHW Bush wasn't. Clinton turned back several worse congressional versions before settling on a more moderate one.

Clinton's welfare reform went far beyond anything proposed by Reagan or Bush. Even more extreme right-wing proposals were proposed after Clinton's, in an effort to drag him even further to the right.

Media deregulation? Leftover from Bush I and Reagan.

The 1996 Telecommunications Act passed with the blessing of Clinton, Gore, and many Democrats.

We often criticize the right for "revising" history. It seems some on the LEFT hated Clinton so much they ignore his vast accomplishments, sometimes denying they even happened, and overplay his hand in just few of their pet issues. Could it be that, just like the right, they can't stand that someone who isn't one of them could be so damn successful?

On the contrary, Clinton-worshippers won't acknowledge that Clinton cemented the rule of the DLC over the party and apparently feel the need to embellish his supposed successes.

The Strongest Economy in a Generation. Longest Economic Expansion in U.S. History. In February 2000, the United States entered the 107th consecutive month of economic expansion -- the longest economic expansion in history.

21.2 million new jobs were created since 1993, the most jobs ever created under a single Administration -- and more new jobs than Presidents Reagan and Bush created during their three terms. 92 percent (19.4 million) of the new jobs were created in the private sector, the highest percentage in 50 years.

Fastest and Longest Real Wage Growth in Over Three Decades. In the last 12 months, average hourly earnings have increased 3.7 percent -- faster than the rate of inflation. The United States has had five consecutive years of real wage growth -- the longest consecutive increase since the 1960s. Since 1993, real wages are up 6.8 percent, after declining 4.3 percent during the Reagan and Bush years.

Unemployment was the lowest Nearly the Lowest in Three Decades.

Highest Homeownership Rate in History.

Lowest Poverty Rate in Two Decades. The poverty rate has fallen from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 12.7 percent in 1998. That's the lowest poverty rate since 1979 and the largest five-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years (1965-1970). The African-American poverty rate has dropped from 33.1 percent in 1993 to 26.1 percent in 1998 -- the lowest level ever recorded and the largest five-year drop in African-American poverty in more than a quarter century (1967-1972). The poverty rate for Hispanics is at the lowest level since 1979, and dropped to 25.6 percent in 1998.

Largest Five-Year Drop in Child Poverty Rate Since the ‘60s. Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, child poverty has declined from 22.7 percent in 1993 to 18.9 percent in 1998 -- the biggest five-year drop in nearly 30 years. The poverty rate for African-American children has fallen from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 36.7 percent in 1998 -- a level that is still too high, but is the lowest level in 20 years and the biggest five-year drop on record. The rate also fell for Hispanic children, from 36.8 percent to 34.4 percent - and is now 6.5 percentage points lower than it was in 1993.

All of the above had very little to do with Clinton's policies and everything to do with the business cycle. It's also worth noting that the the bottom economic third of Americans gained very little from this expansion.

Increased the Minimum Wage.

Not nearly enough.


An environmental budget that included a record $1.4 billion for Lands Legacy -- a 93 percent increase and the largest one-year investment ever requested for conserving America’s lands

And let environmental crimes go less prosecuted than Reagan.

So much more on the environment, families, the economy, education, crime, etc.

Maybe in your imagination.

[wyldwolf]

121. humbug?

Clinton cowardly retreated from his plan due to business opposition. Nonetheless, he kept the cuts in Medicaid and Medicare.

I think Congress had a bit to do with it? Do you have proof of "business opposition" statement?

Right. If it happened under Clinton, then it "looked good on paper." If it happened under a Republican, then it was a conscious screwing-over of working people. Please! I don't think he's apologized for NAFTA, has he? He was just serving his corporate masters -- which is what he did best.

I never said that because it happenned under Clinton, it "looked good on paper." Reread the post. Even when Bush I signed it and sent it to Congress, it looked good on paper.

"Corporate masters." Gee! Do you know how politics and policy enactment works? Obviously not. Which is why the candidates you support seldom get elected.

Clinton's welfare reform went far beyond anything proposed by Reagan or Bush. Even more extreme right-wing proposals were proposed after Clinton's, in an effort to drag him even further to the right.

You need to reread my post... again. I never compared Clinton's proposals to Reagan's or Bush's but to the GOP's. You need to research this. Clinton turned down/sent back several more extreme versions from the GOP.

Clinton twice vetoed the welfare reform bill put forward by Newt Gingrich and Bob Dole before signing the best compromise he could extract from Gingrich/Dole.

1. Three Ways President Clinton Changed The Welfare Bill

A. Clinton managed to preserve national standards and the guarantee that the poor will obtain food stamps. Congress had called for letting the states do whatever they wanted with food stamp money and program eligibility requirements.

B. Clinton succeeded in strengthening day care support for children of welfare recipients. Congress had been demanding much deeper cuts.

C. Clinton demanded and won the fight to guarantee Medicaid coverage, which generally helps the disabled and poor children. Congress wanted to let states do whatever they wanted with Medicaid, including taking Medicaid funds and using them for other purposes.

Clinton-worshippers won't acknowledge that Clinton cemented the rule of the DLC over the party

Which to most of us is a good thing - wresting control back from the losing McGovernites of the last several election cycles.

All of the above had very little to do with Clinton's policies and everything to do with the business cycle. It's also worth noting that the the bottom economic third of Americans gained very little from this expansion.

I guess Clinton was just lucky, huh? Recession for Bush I, Clinton comes in and gets 8 years of a great economy and as soon as new GOP policies get put in place, recession again. Interesting - the record shows this cycle just about every time a democrat takes office. The economy improves. The business cycle must favor democrats, huh? Actually, though, it had much to do with the 1993 Economic Plan, where President Clinton cut taxes on 15 million low-income families and made tax cuts available to 90 percent of small businesses, while raising taxes on the wealthiest taxpayers.

As for the statement "the bottom economic third gained very little from this exansion" - Is that Clinton's fault? Hey! If he wasn't responsible for the economic boom then your assertion that the poor didn't benefit wasn't his doing, right?

But here is the stats brought about by the 1993 Economic Plan





Looks like the bottom economic third of Americans' economic standing improved greatly to me.

And like a dutiful critic, you say...

Increase minimum wage? not enough! Typically setting the litmus test passing score out of reach.

Improved environmental controls, family policies, education, the economy, crime, etc.? Maybe in your imagination.

No, not in my imagination - but in reality. Do you want me to lay out the facts for you?

[sendero]

78. Really...

... you aren't allowed to have a libido. Just look at Bush*, can you imagine him having EVER had one? :)

[CharlesGroce]

2. No Thomas Jefferson was an amazing president....

Clinton was a president we (and the world) were somewhat fortunate to have..

[dwilson]

3. One of the greatest

presidents ever.

[Rick Myers]

4. Cannot wait for his book!!!

And "The hunting of the President"

[2bfree]

8. I'll buy the book ASAP as well............

Can't wait to see how many copies it sells.

[mopinko]

11. order your copy now

from your favorite online bookstore. let's see how long and how high it can fly on the nyt list, no daggers needed. i ordered my yesterday.

[Gildor Inglorion]

5. History will be kind to the Big Dog...don't worry

The vast, right-wing conspiracy will vanish into the dustbin of historical flotsam along with Tammany Hall, the Whig Party, Aaron Burr, and other footnotes, and Clinton's accomplishments will shine forth ever more brightly. He will join Harry Truman as a president appreciated more after the fact than he was during his term in office. I think he will come to be regarded as one of the 7 or 8 best presidents ever.

[jeff30997]

6. Yep!

[mopinko]

7. one of the smartest

npr read a letter today regarding a bit about the 'lincoln at cooper union' speech. the writer said that he went back and read the whole speech and was stunned at the detail, clarity and intellegence of the argument. said, can you imagine a candidate today giving that kind of speech? and i though- sure, big dog. that fancy pants elitist.

[Taverner]

9. I miss the big dog!

I didn't support him in the 91 primaries (Brown supporter) but voted for him in 92. I think he was one of our best presidents - 8 years of peace and prosperity!

[TheFarseer]

10. He wasn't amazing

If you take away the sex thing, which shouldn't even be a consideration. If the repubs wouldn't have made a big fuss about it, it would not have affected the country in any way. So besides that, he balanced the budget and didn't screw up anything important. That is good but not amazing.

[Taverner]

12. "May you live in interesting times"

Old Asian curse. Clinton made sure it wasn't interesting, just peace and the bills got paid.

Not bad if you ask me...

[freetobegay]

13. With how the budget looks today

Clinton was God to the American people on that fact alone.

[robnycny]

15. Amazing, YES, in my humble opinion.

Nothing to flame about. Things are tough - give me some room to feel amazed sometimes, and say it.

[Yupster]

37. What was the one biggest change Clinton made

to the country that will be remembered 100 years from now?

It won't be the economy or the budget. Presidents are never remembered for that unless there's some disaster.

Otherwise, what's the great accomplishment?

I think Poppy Bush will go down in history as below average, but he'll be associated with the Gulf War and the Americans With Disabilities Act.

What's the change Clinton will be remembered for?

NAFTA?
Welfare Reform?

I just don't think he'll be treated that well by history. More of a caretaker.

[wyldwolf]

84. I find this amazing, don't you?

The Strongest Economy in a Generation. Longest Economic Expansion in U.S. History. In February 2000, the United States entered the 107th consecutive month of economic expansion -- the longest economic expansion in history.

21.2 million new jobs were created since 1993, the most jobs ever created under a single Administration -- and more new jobs than Presidents Reagan and Bush created during their three terms. 92 percent (19.4 million) of the new jobs were created in the private sector, the highest percentage in 50 years.

Fastest and Longest Real Wage Growth in Over Three Decades. In the last 12 months, average hourly earnings have increased 3.7 percent -- faster than the rate of inflation. The United States has had five consecutive years of real wage growth -- the longest consecutive increase since the 1960s. Since 1993, real wages are up 6.8 percent, after declining 4.3 percent during the Reagan and Bush years.

Unemployment was the lowest Nearly the Lowest in Three Decades.

Highest Homeownership Rate in History.

Lowest Poverty Rate in Two Decades. The poverty rate has fallen from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 12.7 percent in 1998. That's the lowest poverty rate since 1979 and the largest five-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years (1965-1970). The African-American poverty rate has dropped from 33.1 percent in 1993 to 26.1 percent in 1998 -- the lowest level ever recorded and the largest five-year drop in African-American poverty in more than a quarter century (1967-1972). The poverty rate for Hispanics is at the lowest level since 1979, and dropped to 25.6 percent in 1998.

Largest Five-Year Drop in Child Poverty Rate Since the ‘60s. Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, child poverty has declined from 22.7 percent in 1993 to 18.9 percent in 1998 -- the biggest five-year drop in nearly 30 years. The poverty rate for African-American children has fallen from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 36.7 percent in 1998 -- a level that is still too high, but is the lowest level in 20 years and the biggest five-year drop on record. The rate also fell for Hispanic children, from 36.8 percent to 34.4 percent - and is now 6.5 percentage points lower than it was in 1993.

Improved Access to Affordable, Quality Child Care and Early Childhood Programs.

Increased the Minimum Wage.

Enacted Single Largest Investment in Health Care for Children since 1965.

Extended Strong, Enforceable Patient Protections for Millions of Americans.

An environmental budget that included a record $1.4 billion for Lands Legacy -- a 93 percent increase and the largest one-year investment ever requested for conserving America’s lands.

So much more on the environment, families, the economy, education, crime, etc.

[seabeyond]

14. dont cha think

that history is going to present the repugs in such a horrible way about laughing and in disgust of their behavior. maybe not today, or tomorrow, but 20 years from now.

i think

[HootieMcBoob]

16. Overall probably the best President of my lifetime

I was born during Kennedy. Johnson's Great Society and civil rights legislation would put him at the top if it wasn't for that messy Vietnam thing. Otherwise I have to go with Clinton. He could have been great if it hadn't been for them.

[Maddy McCall]

22. Johnson's accomplishments were more substantial than Clinton's.

If you don't look at one Johnson policy as a counterbalance to another, Johnson's domestic policy was bar none the best in my lifetime, and I was born in the Johnson administration. Speaking as a historian, though, not from my memories.

In the past four decades, Johnson was the best president on domestic programs.

[robnycny]

23. Didn't compare Clinton to others before him.

Was just stating my thoughts, in the context of today, RWR, etc.

On edit: typo!

[Maddy McCall]

24. I wasn't replying to you but to the poster above my post...

However, since you are responding to me, I will reiterate that Clinton was a good president, but not an amazing one.

It would be hard to find ANY president (many Republicans included) who, in comparision to Bush, would not seem amazing.

[robnycny]

26. Jchild you are so right.

I'm sorry... didn't mean to specify my response to you. GD is tough!

[Yupster]

38. Regardless of what else you think of Johnson,

he'll always have medicare and Civil Rights Act to hang his hat on in the history books.

I just don't see it with Clinton.

With the economy doing well and the world being relatively peaceful, I think he wasted a good opportunity to tackle imortant issues and make major changes.

[wyldwolf]

80. uh...

With the economy doing well and the world being relatively peaceful...

Due in large part to Bill Clinton. Can he hang his hat on it, then?

[Yupster]

95. Yes, Clinton will be remembered

for the economy going well and a relatively peaceful world.

In fact, he wasn't the only president who could hang their hate on those two issues.

William Howard Taft, Benjamin Harrison and Calvin Coolidge all hung their hats on those two things two. Yep, the greats.

[wyldwolf]

97. yes, but what did they do to specifically improve those issues?

Keep it short.

[no name no slogan]

115. Depends on what part of the world you were in, really

If you were a child in Iraq, the continued US/UK-backed embargo (despite WMD evidence) might well have killed you. If the embargo didn't do it, then the continued low-intensity war might have.

If you're East African, you may have been helped by the drugs produced at the pharma plant that was supposedly producing chemical weapons in Sudan that Clinton bombed in 1998, during the Lewinsky affair. BTW, it was bombed despite strong evidence from reputable sources that it was, indeed, a pharma plant.

If you were East Timorese, you probably got to watch as yet again the US government ignored pleas from the international community to STOP supporting the butchery of Indonesian dictator Suharto against your people. Bill Clinton was calling Suharto "our kind of guy" while thousands more East Timorese were murdered. Finally, the Australians stepped in and stopped the slaughter-- despite the fact that there's no oil in East Timor.

If you happened to be a Serb living in Kosovo, you may have been run out of your home by the Albanian Kosovar gangs, who made their money by running opium from the middle-east to western Europe. Your plight was exacerbated by the US-led bombing of Serbia, which caused the Serbian government to ethnically cleanse the Albanian Kosovars-- just as they promised they would if they were attacked.

If you were a Palestinian, not much changed for you during the Clinton years-- other than the fact that Rabin, while preaching peace and a two-state solution, continued building Jewish settlements on your land at an even FASTER rate than before.

If you were a welfare recipient in the US, you were forced to get a job-- ANY job, regardless of whether it got you out of poverty. So now, you get to work 1-3 jobs for 50-60+ hours a week, with no benefits, making little more than your measley welfare check. Lucky you.

Clinton was a good president. Nothing more, nothing less. He presided over an economic expansion that made the rich even richer, while the poor and middle-classes stayed about the same, or maybe gained a little. His policies (and those of his appointees) did little to stop the consolidation of corporate power into the hands of fewer and fewer individuals. Unions became less and less a factor in the economy, and our "peace dividend" from the end of the Cold War didn't materialize.

Clinton was good, but certainly not the best.

[Leilani]

42. LBJ was a lying war criminal just like the current Texan

in the White House.

As an historian, you can wax eloquent about LBJ, but I lived through those times, & he lied us into a war. And everytime he opened his mouth he lied.

Sorry for the rant, but LBJ & Shrub are tied for the worst presidents of my lifetime.

[DerekG]

49. Don't misread them, Leilani...

No one is even attempting to absolve Johnson of his genocidal war against the Vietnamese. They are pointing out, correctly, that Johnson's domestic accomplishments were greater than any other modern president's--even Roosevelt.

Johnson's legacy consisted of great good and great evil--Clinton's is neither.

[wyldwolf]

81. Saved our economy, peace in Northern Ireland...

... stopped Genocide in Kosovo.

Sounds like great good to me.

[Blue Wally]

56. Leilani Said:

"As an historian, you can wax eloquent about LBJ, but I lived through those times, & he lied us into a war. And everytime he opened his mouth he lied."

Leilani, Leilani, you need to read or reread "The Best and Brightest" by David Halberstam. The Vietnam roller coaster was on the move long before LBJ took office and the guys that started it (Rusk, the Bundys, McNamara, et al) were held over into the Johnson administration from the Kennedy administration. Could Johnson have called a halt at anytime? Yes, he could have stopped at anytime and begun withdrawal. We had a withdrawal plan in our files in 1967 ready to execute. His "Harvard smart guys" were telling him he couldn't be the first president to lose a war and he stuck stubbornly to the course. After everything turned to shit, all of the smart guys bailed out and wrote books glossing over their faults and the Kennedy faults on Vietnam and hanging the whole albatross around the neck of LBJ and later, Tricky Dick (who did get us out, but not as fast as some folks would like).

[wyldwolf]

82. So, essentially...

It wasn't LBJ's fault even though he was president... BUT to read all of the anti-Clinton posts in this thread, it was all HIS fault 'cause he was president.

[Fone Book]

30. Best in my lifetime too- im only 15

n/t

[BigMcLargehuge]

17. I have mixed feelings

he signed the 1996 Telecommunications act, the single most destructive piece of deregulation ever, let the insurance lobby walk all over he and Mrs. Clinton's universal health care goal until it ceased to exist, let the Rwandans dangle until the Hutus got tired of hacking Tutsi's to death and the neighboring revolutionary army had enough waiting for UN approval to move by then 800,000 people were dead, hamstrung the UN mission in Bosnia by withholding troops (though Congress owns alot of the blame for that), championed NAFTA and GATT and the FTAA.

On the other hand -

We were involved in no major wars. The economy did improve significantly. He erased the national debt.

I still find him more socially conservative than to my liking, but he was several million orders of magnitude better than his predecessor and follower.

[Maddy McCall]

19. I have mixed feelings, too, BMLH. n/t

[Yupster]

39. Erased the national debt?

Let's not go overboard.

[theboss]

52. He balanced the budget

The debt was still there.

[Maddy McCall]

18. Am I the only Democrat who remembers that travesty called...

WELFARE REFORM?

In Mississippi, immediately after passage of the WElfare Reform Law, EIGHT HUNDRED EIGHTY women were kicked out of college because it was not a "job training activity." They were forced out of college, into McDonalds, Jitney Jungle, and Sanderson Farms--some even were forced to pick up garbage along rural roadways!--so that they could conform with federal welfare reform laws.

Clinton was a good president--especially in comparison to the monster who now occupies the Oval Office--but let's not let our despisal of Bush Boy affect our objectivity about the predecing presidency.

Welfare Reform has been a dismal failure--objective studies have shown it to be so. No one wants to talk about it, and, even Democratic senators who participated in passing the bill said that they never again to visit the headache of that law.

[BigMcLargehuge]

21. I DID forget that

otherwise i'd have included in my list

:)

[wyldwolf]

77. hindsite is 20/20

The idea was very popular with the American people at the time. Why? Because the public and the rightwing were intent on it. It was going to get done so thank whatever god you pray to Clinton was the president when it happened and GHW Bush wasn't. Clinton turned back several worse congressional versions before settling on a more moderate one.

[ulysses]

102. some folks

didn't need the gift of hindsight to oppose it, no matter what the polls said. :shrug:

[wyldwolf]

103. some folks

don't believe in cradle to grave crutches. They also don't have the gift of foreordination.

[ulysses]

107. ok, so

my question to those who refer to welfare as "cradle to grave crutches" is this - what are we to do with the 3-7% of the workforce that is permanently and (via Fed action to fight wage inflation) intentionally unemployed? Shall we let them starve?

[wyldwolf]

109. I never said the welfare reform was good... just better than the ...

GOP alternate plan that WOULD have been passed.

The best we can do is rotate more workers in and out of the ranks of the unemployed (and on and off wellfare), as obsolete or temporary jobs close down and new, more modern jobs arise. And the only economically sound way to do that is to provide training and personal development opportunities for the unemployed, so they are qualified when the labor market rotates them into those newly-created jobs. (Kangas)

Would I have voted on welfare reform as it was written? No.

But since I will never see eye to eye with any politician on every subject, I try not to let my pet issues cloud my judgment of a leader's overall accomplishments.

[ulysses]

111. but what happens

when the job rotation doesn't move quickly enough or snags the same guy two or three times in a row. Five years can add up quickly. What do we do for him?

Would I have voted on welfare reform as it was written? No.

Well, ok, but Clinton's presidency is the topic here, and the man (as noted) was only doing exactly what he came in promising to do.

[JCMach1]

93. I am with you there...

[lyrical di]

20. surrounded by good people

Just think of the hours Gore spent pouring over expenditures looking for cuts. Think of Hillary trying to accomplish miracles with health reform (damn those insurance companies & doctors). Think Of Albright's keeping us on good terms with most of the world. Think of Janet Reno, Bruce Babbit, Bill Richardson.... sigh! When Bush was elected, I railed at my boss because Bush was an idiot. My boss tried to tell me that Bush would do like he did and surround himself with brainiacs. Oh, was he ever mistaken. Fortunately my boss moved on so I could have a smarter boss.

[Catherine Vincent]

25. President Clinton was definitely the greatest POTUS in my lifetime!

[NicRic]

60. Same here !

I was only around 6 or seven years old when Kennedy was murdered, and uninterested in politics when LBJ was our pres. However President Clinton ,came at a time in my life when I was interested in the direction of our country. One of the frist things Clinton tried was a national health care system ,so all would have some kind of coverage ,of course staying true to their greed and selfishness,it was quickly shot down,by those representing big business! All I can say is that for me,President Clinton was a breath of fresh air, an intelligent leader that really cared about the working people,poor and middle class. I trusted his sense of fairness. Its a shame that so many road blocks had been thrown in front of the best of the best Presidents, or Iam sure he could have acomplished much more . He gave the American people long days filed with working towards a better country. I admire him very much and he is near the top of my people I would most like to meet in person list !

[Carolina]

27. yes,

he was/is amazing. During his terms in office, actually before, the wingnuts did everything imaginable to discredit, no, DESTROY him. And that galled me to no end. As Will Pitt noted in a long ago post, we progressives, liberals, whatever the designation du jour, were so happy to have a Democrat in the White House finally that we sat back and relaxed. The rest is history. No, Clinton was not as progressive as many of us would have liked but look at the times and what he was up against...

The fact that they threw everything but the kitchen sink at him and yet he still left office with higher approval ratings than St. Reagan's is, as you state, AMAZING.

Like you, rob, I sometimes fear how Clinton will be treated when juxtaposed to this orgy of whiteashing we're seeing this week. I can only hope that history will reveal the ugly truth about Republicans in the last decades of the 20th century, their genuine scandals and the ones they manufactured against their opponents. Only then can a FAIR and true assessment of Clinton be rendered.

[robnycny]

29. thank you, carolina. thank you.

i just really needed that. repeat, really needed that.

[dumpster_baby]

31. clinton was just another neoliberal

he was more like a republican than a democrat. In many ways, Nixon was more liberal than CLinton.

[Zinfandel]

34. Yes Clinton was...We now have this corporate whore as Prez, a numskull

a puppet, a liar, a republican..."But he'd be fun to have a beer with".

Nowhere near enough, (wouldn't you agree?) Bush is Rove's idea what lies need to be said and to keep people in fear, as if this clown will take care of all the bullshit he created...Hence, contentment,(ala Reagan, just tell the people what they want to hear).

This fuck Bush is a joke. A very bad one, generations will be paying for...but, what do these super wealthy fucks care?

They will continue (the cororate media & the corporations) to whore for Bush to keep the bucks flowing, for them.

And screw democrat FDR/Clinton's way, of giving everyone a at least(semi) fair shot!!!

[Razoor]

40. he was a great president

I thought he was the greatest president in my lifetime so far

[DaveSZ]

41. NAFTA, welfare "reform," deregulation of the media, were Reagan's ideas

Clinton wrapped them with a pretty bow.

His environmental policies were much better than Reagan and Bush II's however, and he balanced the budget.

[theboss]

55. What are his accomplishments?

This is the problem with evaluating Clinton. He did the things any president should do - balance the budget, avoid blowing up the world, keep the economy from collapsing, etc. And he did these things very well.

But there is nothing historical there - no New Deal, no interstate highway system, no Space Program, no Medicare, no EPA.

Even Carter has the Camp David Accords, which Clinton could never quite duplicate with the Palestinians and Israelis.

It's not entirely his fault. It maybe wasn't an era where historical things could be accomplished. But my biggest issue with Clinton was that he made one significant reach for greatness with nationalized healthcare. And when that fell apart, he was content to keep his accomplishments small (or Republican).

[Blue Wally]

58. Health Care

"It's not entirely his fault. It maybe wasn't an era where historical things could be accomplished. But my biggest issue with Clinton was that he made one significant reach for greatness with nationalized healthcare. And when that fell apart, he was content to keep his accomplishments small (or Republican)."

A national single payer health care plan fell apart because of one and one person only, Hillary Clinton. Despite her admirable virtues and liberal stance, Sen Clinton is as paranoid as Richard Nixon. She refused to gather input and consensus from a large number of people and put forward something that had a chance of getting through congress. She wrote it herself with a small staff of people.

Her plan was so complicated and dictatorial (worse than the military health care system in its restrictions on patients) that it failed to gather the support it needed even with Democratic control of both houses of congress in 1993-1994. Yes, the insurance company ads didn't help, but the program was doomed the minute she shut out the rest of the country and began her own little "skunk works".

Pres Clinton should have called in the leaders of both parties in both houses of congress in 1993 and asked each to name a guy they trusted on health care to work with Sec HHS staff to create a consensus plan and carry the water if there was a consensus.

[JayS]

89. Not to mention the fact that Hillary was not an elected official.

That became an issue here.

[Yupster]

90. This is my point too boss

Eight years without major changes to hang your hat on.

Good economy and peace. Sounds like Calvin Coolidge or Benjamin Harrison, or Rutherford Hayes, or William Howard Taft.

Until the stock market went crappers his last year, he had more money than he projected every year, yet he never proposed the big changes that everyone knows are needed.

What was his plan to fix social security? Everyone knows it needs to be changed, and they'll never be a better chance than those eight years. Everyone knows we need universal health insurance. He ran up the white flag quick on that one. Everyone knows medicare is a bean counter's nightmare. Why not tackle it while there's peace and prosperity.

I know the answer will be that he had real good plans, wrote them out but then Newt Gingrich stole his book report.

[Forkboy]

43. He was the definition of "mixed bag"

[wyldwolf]

45. simply the best in the last 50 years - see my post #44

[KG]

46. clinton was/is an amazing person/personality

but amazing president? not hardly.

[stevielizard]

48. I never thought abot politics (pessimist) until the Clinton campaign

this whole TV memorial RR stuff just takes me back to my teens, when I didn't really think about the governnment but suspected it was corrupt in some way- the Clinton years I really felt like maybe we were making the world a closer and better place- I can see how people can sentimentalize the Reagan years, but how can anyone dismiss Clinton after the * years? I know I am preaching to the choir, but these Reagan moments sadden me- our government seems out of touch, and RR though telegenic, in retrospect seems like a simpleton.

[robbedvoter]

51. Truth is the daughter of time. What were the names of the FDR's

or Truman's detractors? Exactly.

[htuttle]

54. Prescott Bush, Henry Ford, the Du Ponts

But that's an easy one. Just name all the crypto-Nazi, old money families, and there you go.

[datasuspect]

59. father coughlin

who railed against FDR with a very popular radio show of all things.

they were accusing fdr of all kinds of weird shit too.

[Yupster]

91. Exactly robbedvoter

and no one will remember the midgets snapping at Clinton's heals either.

[Freddie Stubbs]

96. Huey Long

http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/hist409/long/long.html

[theboss]

53. Clinton was an above-average president

He steered the ship of state very well, but in the end, his most important legacies are going to be the conservative legislation he signed - welfare reform, telecommuincations deregulation, NAFTA, etc.

The problem with Clinton's "liberal" agenda was that it was a thousand small programs, which were all easily shut down by the next conservative who came into office.

I think historians are going to view the Clinton years as a good time to be an American, but an era with no lasting impact.

[Deja Q]

61. His legacy as it might be remembered, please tell me where I'm wrong:

Repukes are evil. They want you to do their bidding and then piss on you whenever they get the chance, especially if you're not a repuke, but they'll go after any of them who don't agree with the repuke's majority consensus. They used President Clinton in this manner. They'll use any Dem centrist or anybody else STUPID enough to try to be bipartisan and to work with these fascist pigs. They cannot be trusted, they will not budge, they will not compromise (unless they do it in a way that will give them a big advantage the next time around.)

Here is Clinton's legacy:

* 1994 firing of Jocelyn Elders because the repukes went wild over her giving a damn about people. This is what happens when people try to get others to think. (No surprise here, President Carter piped up about conserving oil in 1980 and he lost the election because people preferred their blissful ignorance despite the hell that had gone on through the 1970s - speaks volumes about us as a society and possibly why * still has a high rating (anything over 20% is a high rating for the clod*... :scared: )

* 1995 welfare reform act. Funny, it didn't stop corporate welfare one bit.

* 1996 telecom act (more deregulation shit that continued the expansion of the media to the state state that it is in today.)

* NAFTA. Daddy Bush pushed this atrocity. Repuke-enabler Clinton readily signed it. All it does is to gain a lopsided advantage in globalization (to the benefit of American execs only) AND allows us to take the oil and other eneregy sources from the countries who were stupid enough to sign up (which speaks volumes about humanity in general. The 1970s was our one and only wake-up call that this "black gold" does NOT come from a bottomless well. :eyes: )

* DMCA. Digital Millenium Copyright Act. A loosely written set of laws to restrict freedom on technology. For the benefit of corporations, they've also spun this atrocity out of control to conjure up frivolous lawsuits at the drop of a hat. Just ask Lexmark for one...

* DOMA. Gay-friendly president, my big fat hairy arse.

* Ended the 55MPH speed limit on a federal level. Don't forget that going 65MPH uses 15% more gas (made from oil) than driving at 55MPH. Even Nixon put this one into place, in the name of conserving oil and rightly so. It's very hard to believe I can say something good about Nixon...

* Monica - his biggest repuke-enabling act of them all. The one that allowed them to get rid of Clinton in the most disgusting yet apropos manner possible.

Now, before you think I'm all anti-Clinton, President Clinton did balance the budget and had a proper plan to try to get the Middle East to live peaceably. He was not a totally bad guy, not in the slightest. I still hate his bad points with a passion I reserve for hating every neo-con in power or who was in power, but his two good points are very strong points indeed.

[Blue Wally]

67. Not Exactly Balanced

"Now, before you think I'm all anti-Clinton, President Clinton did balance the budget"


To give him credit, he worked towards a balanced budget and came close in his last year. The rosy forecast of surpluses through 2010 was based on an endless continuation of income tax receipts paid on capital gains reported by the dot-bombs going public. When this dried up and the economy turned down, the surpluses went "poof".


The people really hurt were the states (none of Pres Clinton's doing) where the governors and legislators thought the state income tx reciepts were going on like that forever. Instead of spending the money on one-time things as a windfall, they factored it into their basic operating expenses which is why so many states are hurting today.

[JayS]

83. You left off Waco. n/t

n/t

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VolcanoJen]

68. Who Knew???? Morans have mastered the art of cut-n-paste!!!

Damn... and I thought we had it all over them. They're far more adept at spamming the boards than we are!

Ciao, viperdriver. Don't let the door hit you in your freeping, preaching, morallly superior ass, 'k?

[dawn]

65. He was definitely the best President of my lifetime.

I was born in 1971. I don't remember enough of Carter to have an opinion about him.

[progressivebydesign]

66. Love the Big Dog!

:loveya: A damn fine president!

[fujiyama]

69. Very Good

but not extraordinary. It's sort of frustrating and dissapointing in a sense, because I think he could have accomplished much more than he did. He also gave in too many times to the right wingers.

That said, he accomplished a lot given the circumstances he was in -- a GOP dominated congress, which was EXTREMELY hostile toward him, a media that went along with the fabricated scandals (the NYT's fall occured long before their WMD mess...they pushed Whitewater all the way). Unfortunately, he should have known better -- as smart as he was, he should have known that nothing would be secret and the right would go after him.

[Ironpost]

70. Not only a great President

A true American Patriot, This coming from a 15 month Viet-Nam vet...yes Thank you Bill Clinton for having the courage to stand up against an unjust and unnecessary war.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. His legacy was to give the party to the DLC.

He was amazing in that he was able to convince so many Democrats and those that call themselves liberals that the only way to "win" was to turn the party sharply to the right.

I held my nose and voted for him twice. I regret those votes.

[wyldwolf]

76. good!

I do love it when you whine about the DLC and Clinton.

He gave the party BACK to the pre-McGovernite moderates.

Good thing, too.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

87. Good, indeed, for the Republicrats.

You must adore Lieberman and Zell.

[wyldwolf]

92. good, indded, for the traditional Democratic party

Bad for the post '72 far left McGovernites of the party.

I do adore Clinton, Kerry, Gore, Clark, JFK, Truman, FDR...

[in_cog_ni_to]

73. I like this list.

A DU Historian gave this to me. :)

Clinton Policies

Tried to get Universal Health Care
National Health Care Costs rising at 10% per annum. Cut to 3%
Deficit Reduction Package
Crime Bill
100,000 cops on street—crime down down down
Welfare Reform-- Mend do not end. GOP helped bit time
80% increase in child welfare payments
Job Growth-Record 236,000 per month. (Reagan/Bush 167,000)
Largest percentage of Americans working in history
Largest Home Ownership in history
Record number of small business formations
Tax Cut for 15 million working families
Family and Medical Leave Act
Defense Reinvest and Conversion—Bush enjoying weapons created by Clinton
Direct loan programs for students
Guts to put promises in a book "Putting People First"-58 promises in book. Took action on 56 in first two years.
Second best record in history for getting legislation through Congress in first to years. LBJ number one.
Reinvented Government—cut payroll
Fewest number of civilians on federal payroll in 36 years
Attacked cop killing nasty rifle association.
Attacked the cancer inducing tobacco industry
Promoted a global effort to ban abusive forms of child labor
Loan 12.8 Billion to Mexico. Made 800 Million profit. Kept Mexico afloat.
Wash. Post kept list of campaign promises. 162. Took action on 96% in first two years.
Took on prejudice toward other Americans in military
Took on his own Southern Baptist Church
Hard smart work in Middle East and Bosnia-Kosovo
Honored with all of the following:
Dove of Peace Award
Rabin-Peres Peace Award
Gandhi Peace Award
Order of Good Hope Award
Nominated for Nobel Peace Award
Northern Ireland Peace Agreement
Lifeaholics of America Award for Quarter Century "Working for a Life Not Just A Living".
First President to visit Northern Ireland
Cleanup of Toxic sites. Record
Increasing weekly earnings
Shoo Shoo Saddam get away from Kuwait
Stopping Haitians from drowning enroute to freedom
First to visit South Africa
First to make a determined effort to help the African continent come together and grow together
Taxing top 1.2% of very wealthy to get Zoom Zoom Boom economy
Stopping Republicans in the House from raiding Medicare of 181 Billion
Stopping Republicans raid on Medicaid
Stopping Republicans raid on education
Stopping Republicans attack on environment
Largest increase in Education funding since GI Bill
Increased funding for Head Start
Nafta.. A success until the Peso went south
Submitting 8 budgets close to rate of inflation
Brady Bill
Gaat
Assault Weapons Ban
Telling Japan "You take our auto parts or we will apply tariffs on you
California Desert Protection
Forest Management Plan for Northwest
Restoration of Florida Everglades
Preservation of land in Utah
Major increase in funding for homeless
Motor Voter Act
Lobbying Reform Effort. Handshake with Newt who reneged
Pressure to get Campaign Finance Reform.
National Export Strategy. Unbelievable success.
Over 250 Trade pacts
Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Pact
Summit of Americas
Super 301
Chemical Weapons Ban Treaty.
Bottom Up Review of Military
Agreement with Cuba to stop flow of immigrants to USA.
Ameri-Corps
Reduced Nuclear Threat Around the World
Community Banking Act
FEMA used as an active participant and a leader in disaster relief
Tax on well off social security beneficiaries
100,000 new teachers effort
5,000 new classroom effort
50% of classes thru K-12 on internet
Fourth Graders improvement on world tests
Lifetime Learning Opportunity Program
Controls on Spending and Borrowing
Pension Protection Act of 1994
Record high consumer confidence
Very, very, very low Misery Index
National Agenda on Racial Prejudices
First to get African-American unemployment under 10%
Balanced Budget
Record Corporate profits
Record Bank profits
Record Savings and Loan profits
Never whining despite non-sop smears and attacks
Not having a Mean Bone in his body per Historian David Maraniss
Not knowing how to hate
Classing others as "opponents" not "enemies"
Inviting your attackers to the White House functions
Inviting your defeated opponent Bob Dole to visit troops at Christmas
A national attack on hate crimes
Fighting to protect "legal" immigrants from Republicans in the House.
Fighting hard for Fast Track legislation
Kennedy and Kassenbaum Portability of Insurance
Lowest interest rates in 30 years
Allowing millions of homeowners to refinance home loans at lower (much) rates
Lowest unemployment in 25 years
Lowest inflation in 25 years
Lowest welfare rolls in 27 years
Lowest crime Rates in 25 years
First balanced budget sent to Congress in 29 years
Protecting worker pensions (repeat?)
Opposed ban on "Late Term Abortions"
A stock market which passed a 1,000 mark six times
Greatest growth in federal revenues in history
Played Saxophone and Smoked Peace Pipe, instead of beating War Drums like____.
One of History's all time workers for Peace
President in a year when Fortune Magazine classified it as "Greatest Economy in the History of the world"
Popularity jump in the midst of a scandal.
President with highest peacetime popularity in Asia, Africa, Russia and Europe.
Highest popularity of any president at end of fifth year in office
One of the most highly regarded First Lady in History.
One of the most highly regarded Vice-President in History

[redqueen]

74. Nice list!

:kick:

[in_cog_ni_to]

79. Isn't it?

As I said, a DU Historian emailed it to me because I had posted on DU about how much I admired Clinton...he thought it would be useful. It IS! :) It's a keeper.

[rniel]

75. actually he was more middle of the road

Clinton was much more a middle of the road conservative than the right wing wanted to frame him as. He sided with the conservatives some of the time on issues like free trade and the environment.

But liberals could be heard to say "even though he's moderate we can work with this guy."

[FizzFuzz]

85. I'll never forget his courageous stance towards abortion

Announcing that it is a private medical issue and not a political one, effectively ending the assault on Roe v Wade that had been building during Raygun and BushI! And in the face of anti-choice woman-bashing repug/RW groups who were already screaming that women should be forced to bear children. It was such a step to speak out boldy on this issue that the RWers were demonizing as hard as they could.

Geez, I still remember the feeling of relief and admiration I had in that moment.

Also this from ABCnews transcript of chat with Pat Schroeder back in 2001: "I think they have supported him because of what he has done for them in terms of issues like pay equity, family leave, women's health and other issues that had been vetoed by prior administrations." Note:VETOED! Clinton actually considered the needs of women. Amazing!!

I miss Bill.

[depakid]

86. Clinton tarnished his own legacy

in more ways than one-

I wholeheartedly agree with the assessment that he was the best REPUBLICAN president we ever had.

and I do have a salute for him- though probably not one his ardent admirers would care to see.

[Hammie]

98. I just realized what Kerry's problem is...

He wasn't named after one of the founding fathers.

BTW, does F stand for anything?

[Selwynn]

99. Clinton was a right wing "democrat," and a profound disappointment...

...to progressive ideals. :(

Edit - that said, I had no idea how deeply I would miss him.. until I got Bush. And some others made good points on this thread. He was kind of a mixed bag, responsible for both really terrbile things and some good things, and as someone else said a person that made liberals say, "he may be a moderate, but we can work with this guy."

Still, I can only imagine what it would have been like to have 8 years of leadership under an honest to god progressive liberal rather than a DLC republican-lite.

[wyldwolf]

105. Clinton was a moderate democrat

... and anything less than perfect is a profound disappointment to "progressives."

Of course, I do realize that anything to the right of simon-pure progressive ideology is suspect and thus, "rightwing."

In truth, the activists on the far left abandoned Clinton.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/101003A.shtml

[Selwynn]

117. mmkay..

[Piperay]

100. I love the Big Dawg...

he disappointed me because he gave into temptation but I love :loveya: the guy no matter what. :D

[Andromeda]

104. Clinton deserves our praise and our thanks.

He did an incredible job in spite of the Republican's efforts to hamstring him.

Amazing isn't adequate enough to describe the Big Dog. He was the best president ever and I don't think his legacy is tarnished at all. He will go down in the history books as one of the most effective and brilliant presidents the U.S. ever had.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

108. The right demonized a moderate-to-conservative Democrat.

The odd thing is that the big domestic policy change in Clintons two terms was a GOP initiative that Clinton coopted,,,Welfare Reform.

Clinton was defeated in his two hi-profile "liberal" policy iniatives ..gays in the military and national health care.

So, not really all that amazing, IMO. Tho he did do good with the Good Friday Agreement and the Dayton Accords.

[Deja Q]

113. In all honesty, despite my nitpicks, he's the best President since Kennedy

Easily the best since Kennedy. (Now I still don't like some of Clinton's policies, but he did do a lot of good too.)

But Carter is a very close #3. Better in some ways, but he didn't have as much of a foreign policy piece as Clinton had... Clinton rocked with foreign policy, period. And being a President also means having to deal with the peoples of the world. Reagan just about caused WW III with his stupidity and had far less to do with the end of communism than people give him credit for. Bush I got cred only because he saw Hussein invading Kuwait (and Kuwait was apparently practicing slant drilling at the time). Bush II is a total imbecile and I bet he doesn't even realize it.

[dumpster_baby]

114. just another neoliberal selected by the corporate media

He NEVER stuck out his neck for the people. He gladly patronized and accepted the establishment "wedge issues," while avoiding the REAL issues for the most part, such as getting a real progressive taxation system and a real healthcare system. He was not MY president, and I wanted to see him impeached for lying, just because we had the chance to take down a president. But of course the senate was not going to have any part of that--they are part of the ruling elite, just like him. And the ruling elite look out for each other.

[Jabbery]

116. He was the greatest President of my lifetime

God Bless Bill Clinton. I believe he is the greatest man who served as President in my lifetime, and since JFK and FDR. The man is a true American. May his filthy critcs die and rot and be eaten by worms.

[AgadorSparticus]

118. yes he is!!! this ridiculous monkey in office makes me miss him even more

[GOPBasher]

120. I think he was good, not great.