Ron Jr. speech....Did Nancy know that was coming?

[Armstead]

If so, I have new respect for her.

Either way, my respect for Ron Jr. just multiplied. He inherited his father's fire, and put it to good use.

[happynewyear]

1. right

maybe it is not a like father like son scenario we can only hope and pray. I have hope for him. For Nancy I only feel pity and sadness because she has lived with a dead man for a very long time already. This is really nothing new to her.

They need to lay off Nancy Reagan. They don't know when to stop do they?

[Zero Gravitas]

12. Nancy

I feel terrible for Nancy. I never liked her as first lady (or, needless to say her Husband's polices) but I do really feel for her now.

[crossroads]

35. She seemed so very frail...

I feel compassion towards her... especially when I realize she may be the one who may have to carry the torch for stem-cell research...she needs some rest...Ron surprised and delighted me... they hate the Bushes...I think the feeling is mutual...
:eyes:

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

38. I think she had one thing on her mind...her late husband.

The photos of her sitting in the car, looking out the window...pretty brutal stuff.

Bush likes to wear his Christianity...his own unique VERSION of Christianity, which offends many Christians, myself included...on his sleeve.

Look at the photos of Nancy and ask yourself "how will Bush's God reward him for using this woman's grief to further his ambitions?"

As of 10:00 PM Pacific Time, the White House Web Site has apparently removed that one sickening photo of Bush giving Nancy his best "compassionate conservative" hug while Pickles looks on admiringly...so I WILL give them credit for having the decency to do THAT.

[snippy]

55. Me too.

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, she has to say concerning Bush or the election a few weeks or months from now.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

23. Ron Jr.s been a good liberal for years. He's been quite outspoken

about Bush and the war in Iraq for a while now. Hopefully - they'll be trotting him out for the next few weeks.

He has appeared on MSNBC several times as a commentator and does a good job of lambasting Bush and the Pubs.

[Say_What]

37. TRANSCRIPT of Children's Remarks

... Dad was also a deeply, unabashedly religious man. But he never made the fatal mistake of so many politicians wearing his faith on his sleeve to gain political advantage. True, after he was shot and nearly killed early in his presidency, he came to believe that God had spared him in order that he might do good. But he accepted that as a responsibility, not a mandate. And there is a profound difference.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36014-2004Jun11.html

[Cooley Hurd]

52. That was the best part of the entire funeral...

I sure hope he stumps for Kerry!!!

[Hoping4Change]

2. What was in the speech?

[wicket]

3. Speech

He criticized those who only claim to be Christian to exploit it for political purposes. Awesome!

[Hoping4Change]

8. That is awesome. Thanx.

[stopbush]

4. Only caught the tail end, but he spoke of RR's religious belief

and how he didn't wear it on his sleeve, "like others do...that would have been a big mistake" or something to that effect.

Yowza! He zinged shrub!

[ronnykmarshall]

21. Even Michael hugged his brother.

It was nice to see.

[merh]

27. something like this

he was religious, but he did not wear religion on his sleeve for political gain.

"And make no mistake. It was a responsibility. Not a mandate. And there IS a difference."

[delhurgo]

5. I think there's more to this remark by Ron Jr than just

a slap at Bush, which Im sure it is in part. But its probably more him saying to the Taliban Wing that his dad wasn't on their side as much as they'd like to think. I guess you can argue whether thats true or not, but I think thats what he's trying to say - he's sort of trying to rescue his Dad's memory from the far right that are trying to claim him.

[judgegina]

11. Yes...

It was a slam at Bush and at the Taliban Wing of the GOP

[mountainvue]

26. Sorry.

"Dutch" created the "Taliban Wing."

[Justice]

34. Ahh, urgh, ummm,

no, I don't think Ron Reagan was speaking about the Taliban.

Nice try though.

[Judi Lynn]

60. If you follow closely, you'll discover people sometimes refer to radical

right-wingers (American) as "Tallibans," and they aren't actually trying to include Afghan extremists.

Your put-down was misplaced.

[OKNancy]

6. This Nancy did

I just knew, with all I've seen of Ron Jr, that he was going to say SOMETHING.

( and ex-ballet dancers are tough people :-) )

[Tellurian]

7. I hope when this is over, Ron and Nancy expose all that Bush did to Reagan

to subvert his presidency and work hard to clear and seperate his name from the most corrupt family to ever walk the face of this earth.

[OKNancy]

9. That would be delicious

BWHAHAHAHA

[Forkboy]

10. all ballet dancers are tough

I got my ass handed to me by one about 15 years ago.Learned my lesson damn quick :)

[Armstead]

13. My thought is...

I don't think Ron Jr. would deliberately upset his mother at this time by saying something that would upset her. And that was not an innucous side comment -- that was a direct slam at Bush and the Taliban GOP.

So my hunch -- only a hunch -- is that was the family sending a message.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

14. Don't use my Dad's death for your political gain, you SOBs!

[Political_Junkie]

15. Makes sense to me.

I didn't see it, but didn't Michael tap his leg to show him support after he spoke? This would seem to me that he was also showing support for what he said.

[DeepModem Mom]

16. Michael did make a gesture of support to Ron, when he sat down --

[ronnykmarshall]

22. and Nancy hugged Michael after he spoke.

Later, Michael stayed behind with Dora (Ron's wife) and his wife at RR's coffin. It was very touching.

[union_maid]

17. Well, there is the stem cell thing

Nancy is probably really upset about that and this is a round about slap at that, too. I assumed she loved or cared for her husband. Watching that happen to someone you love really sucks. Having someone essentially say they don't give a shit and and because of a personal religious belief is going to block the research that may prevent the same thing from happening to her children someday has to piss a widow off. Don't you think?

[Eloriel]

18. Ron apparently doesn't understand that

it was Reagan who made the deal with the Devil, so to speak, and brought the Radical Religious Right into politics BIG TIME. I blame him for their political ascension.

Quite a few years ago I met a minister who told me about a meeting they'd been called to by Reagan, and it was basically a shake-down. I was so shocked I couldn't actually remember what he'd told me, just the gist of it.

[merh]

31. Kind of like Dubya's meeting with the Pope?

When he met with him, he tried to get the Pope to make the cardinals, bishops and priests in the United States follow him (Dubya). He had the nerve to ask the Pope to force the religious here to follow his anti-gay, anti-abortion stances and to enforce them. (you know, no communion for pro-right Catholics.)

[lanparty]

40. Anti Death Penalty!!!!

Sorry, but the Catholic hierarchy only answer to themselves (and sometimes to god).

Bush II the WORST record at putting people to death. The Catholic church is 100% AGAINST the death penalty!!!!

[merh]

43. I know that

I am simply pointing out how Dubya sees himself, so important, so great that he can dictate to the Pope what it is the Pope needs to do to reign in the U.S. sinners (to do to help his candidacy). He has alot of nerve and he is crazy .......

[mitchum]

32. You are absolutely correct

While I applaud RR Jr's slap at the religous right, his father certainly did pander to, and empower, those jackals.

[calimary]

57. Eloriel and union_maid - you're both correct.

There was a media observer on CNN this morning talking about it and actually getting close to the mark. You guys are both on point.

Nancy is bucking the religiosos that have taken over the republi-CON party and turned them into ravenous attack dogs for Christ. So was Ron Junior. But those same ravenous attack dogs for Christ DID MOST CERTAINLY get a huge booster shot from Reagan himself. This guy on TV reminded me that Lee Atwater got his start in REAGAN's campaign, and carried through to bush-the-elder's also, as, I believe, republi-CON party chair. He was single-handedly responsible for the take-no-prisoners, scorched-earth, character-assassination political campaigning that created the Willie Horton scare against Michael Dukakis, and the "he fathered a black child out of wedlock" sliming of John McCain later on for dear little sonny-boy. Lee Atwater should have been BURIED with Willie Horton.

At the very lowest rungs of hell you will find Lee Atwater. The nice, young, clean-cut, gee-lookie-there-a-hip-young-Republican-who-even-plays-rock-music-on-his-electric-guitar Lee Atwater. He brought that attack-dog politics to the national scene. He committed such grievous mortal sins by doing so that he felt compelled, while dying of brain cancer (!), to call Michael Dukakis to his deathbed to apologize for what he'd done to the guy - what does THAT tell you about the grave nature of the offense he obviously realized, at the bitter end, that he carried on his conscience?!?!?

Reagan birthed all of that. Lee Atwater could have been the obstetrician to Reagan's expectant mom, or vice versa. Because of the two of them the fundamentalists gained a powerful foothold in national politics and never looked back. Because of Reagan, also, and his jones to deregulate everything and "get the government off your back," among the things he deregulated was broadcasting. Bye-bye Fairness Doctrine. Hello Rush Limbaugh. Check, and mate. I rest my case.

[LandOLincoln]

19. I love Ron Jr. He's been slamming * every chance he gets for

years now, and his mother surely knows and approves.

He did an interview with Wolf Blitzer (I think it was) back in March or so. When Blitzed made the mistake of mentioning * and Ron's father in the same sentence, Ron bit his damfool head off:

"My father is a man," he snapped. "George Bush isn't fit to carry his gym socks."

He went on to say that he believed his father had been suffering from the Alzheimer's long before it was acknowledged publicly, and blamed the worst of his father's administrations' policies on the same NeoConnuts who're now pulling *'s strings.

Of course, that explanation begs the question of Reagan's policies as California governor in the 60s, but I'm not going to call Ron Jr. on it. It can't be easy, being the loving and loyal son of a man whose politics you abhor.

I just wish he'd run for office himself, but he's apparently ruled that out. He's a smart man--and his decision is definitely our loss.

[Hailtothechimp]

28. The comment was on a show with Maria Bartiromo.

and it was sweet. Ron said that bu$h has a ranch to pretend to be like his father. Wish I had tivoed it.

[LandOLincoln]

30. Pretty sure he was talking to Blitzer when I saw him, which

doesn't mean he couldn't have said essentially the same thing to Bartiromo. Hey, the more the merrier, right?

[UTUSN]

20. And Kick Again n/t

[LostInAnomie]

24. I wish the news would make a big deal about it in the next few days.

I think it was clean to everyone who the remark was pointed towards. It would make a huge difference if people knew the Reagan's family do not support Shrub.

It won't happen though.

[mountainvue]

25. I'm certain she did.

however, I think she is probably also sedated.

[susanna]

29. I said the same thing to my husband.

He was well spoken, articulate, and WOW! He nails his points home. Good for Ron the Younger.

[kaiso]

33. Reagan was closet Democrat.

Reagan was closer to Clinton than he is to Bush.

Ron Jr's speech proves this.

The Neocons are already upset at Nancy calling for stem cell research....

Reagan appointed the 1st woman supreme court justice and Sutter, both pro-life, anti right wingers.

[mountainvue]

36. Um No.

Clinton eradicated the deficit. Reagan increased it more than any other president until that time.
Ron Jr.'s speech proves that he loved his father and he's not down with the Compassionate Conservative bs being spewed by his father's political party.
I haven't heard anyone Repigs say they are pissed at Nancy on stem cell research-they don't have the stones.
Bush appointed Justice David Souter.

[kaiso]

39. Mr Gorbachev tear down this wall. Bush: Mr Sharon, build up this wall!

Let's see, top tax bracket 70%, unemployment 11%, inflation 10%, interest rates 15%. Reagan was correct to cut taxes under those conditions, BUT he later raised taxes to help balance the busget unlike Papa Bush. Papa Bush in his four years increased the national debt more than Reagan's 8 years. Baby Bush today is the biggest deficit hog in history.

What else? Clinton, small government, Reagan small government, Bush big government.

Reagan believed in opening gates and pulling down walls, he initiated free trade agreements, all along Clinton's lines, Bush tells Sharon to build the wall.

Clinton and Reagan great communicators, Bush, poor communicator.

Reagan from California, Bush from Texas.

Clinton and Reagan did not force religion down our throats, Bush, a Christian right wing radical.

We Democrats could use Ragan's strengths against Bush but some are too sensitive to fight that winning battle. Ron Jr opened the gates with his speech on religion today. Bush is no Reagan, in fact he is the antithesis of what Reagan stood for.

Clinton and Reagan restored hope, Bush is currently destroying the moral fabric of the country.

Clinton and Reagan built respect around the globe for America, Bush has destroyed our moral standing throughout the world.

[mountainvue]

44. Sorry.

Clinton and Reagan don't even belong in the same sentence together.

[sadiesworld]

45. What a load.

Reagan and shrub both remade themselves into phony cowboy ranchers. Both appealed to a fundie, racist base. (Bob Jones University anyone?) Reagan ignored AIDS and shrub wants to amend the Constitution to ban gay marriage. Reagan was anti-choice, shrub is anti-choice.

Extreme tax cuts for the wealthy were the first order of business for both upon taking office, even as they drastically increased defense spending. Both incurred huge deficits (you do know that Reagan almost tripled the debt, right?) Reagan dealt an enormous blow to organized labor when he fired the air traffic controllers, Shrub won't even meet with union leaders.

None of the above bears any resemblance to Clinton or his presidency. While I don't agree with everything Clinton did, particularly in the area of trade, the idea that he is more ideologically akin to Reagan (than shrub is) is ludicrous.

(As an aside: Clinton had a pretty difficult bunch to contend with as you may recall. He at least tried to deal w/ the health care crisis and he vetoed Newt's unfortunate corporate deregulation bill-though it survived and came back to haunt during shrub's kindler, gentler SEC.)

[SoCalDem]

48. Yep.. If I had MONEY, even I could be a "fake-rancher"

all it takes is tons on money to buy some primo land, build a fancy-schmantzy "ranch-house", buy some pretty horses, and then invite the press to take the pics..

Reagan was an ACTOR ..first and foremost... he knew how to play a role and play to an audience.. he was IN the image business..It's no surprise that people bought it...Hell, after a while, even HE bought it..

The people we elect to public office are NOT ORDINARY people..As much as they work on their image, they can never again be "ordinary folks".. They are rich, pampered,privileged people.. The only thing missing is the crown..

We are their subjects...willing or otherwise.. they RULE over us, and tell us what to do. They live well, and we watch with noses pressed to the glass, and tell ourselves that they are "doing "our" business"..They are NOT.. they are securing the fortunes of their progeny, and if in the process, they accidentally do something that benefits US, that's ok too..

[delhurgo]

46. Good post. I agree totally.

Reagan was pretty good on the economy. He was right about cutting taxes, deregulating sensibly, ... He didn't control spending tho, so therefore the deficit sored which was bad. But otherwise'Reaganomics' worked.

He was right to rebuild the military and call the Soviet Union 'the evil empire' too. And he wasn't bad on social issues because he believed in small govt, live-and-let-live. It was definitely good tho to have a Democratic congress to keep him in check. His supreme court appointments have turned out pretty well too: O'Connor and Kennedy are both good jurists, Scalia's a disaster - but 2 outta 3 ain't bad :-) Of course, the Dems stopped Bork too - he would of even been worse. So I wouldn't go so far to trust him on civil liberties without a Dem congress.

On social issues tho: choice, church/state, etc... he didn't force things at all - he didn't give the 'religious right' anything really. And thats why he's as popular as he is today. Thats why I said earlier in this thread what I think Ron Jr was trying to say.

Oh, one more good thing about Reagan is he restored the country's pride, and gave people hope.

[kcwayne]

51. This revisionism is pathetic

Please, quit reciting this mantra spewed by the Republicans about Ronnie's accomplishments. It is astounding how many people will buy into myths and lies when the data is readily available for anyone to see. The posts here seem to come from people who probably were not sentient during the Reagan years, but hells bells, it was only 20 years ago so this collective amnesia is amazing.

The federal government grew under Reagan, even though he claimed that he was for small government. And guess who got the blame? Democrats! Reagan cut social programs and increased military expenditures which combined with tax cuts drove the largest deficits ever known to any government. Democrats got the blame for trying to protect social security, Medicare, and other entitlement programs, but the majority of the spending was defense related.

His economy was only good in some segments of the economy. If you were in farming, manufacturing, savings and loan, energy, and some real estate areas, you lost your ass. Workers in those fields saw their earning decline, homelessness skyrocketed and bankruptcies absolutely soared. Reagan was the starting point for the loss of jobs that can sustain a middle class, and Bush is accelerating our decline into a 2 class system.

The person that had more to do with ending the cold war than anyone was Gorbachev. If Andropov had remained as premier, Reagan's blustering and defense posturing could well have led to a nuclear exchange. The Reagan administration spent money on defense like there was tomorrow (and as an End Of Days believer, Reagan thought so as well), but Gorbachev had to convince a bunch of hard line Stalinist to give up power and change the course of the Soviet Union. Without his persuasive powers and effective leadership, it would be a different world today, possible devoid of human life.

Don't be mislead by the 70% tax rate. No one who made the kind of money that would put them in this bracket paid this kind of rate. Their were much different tax laws on write offs then. For example, you could buy real estate that had positive cash flow, and use accelerated depreciation to show a tax loss that dropped your gross income. Once you used up the depreciation, you sold the property and bought another one and kept the game going. What a deal! Rake in 2 million of positive cash flow on an office building, but show a 4 million loss from depreciation. There were very many of these types of tax shelters that allowed those with capital to shield their income.

When Reagan cut the tax rate and the deficits skyrocketed, they starting eliminating these shelters to get some sanity in the budgets. Real estate shelters were eliminated and people started losing their ass in real estate, which also impacted the S&L business as they had massive portfolios of real estate that was suddenly worth 60-70% of loan value.

Quit taking the stupid pills offered up by the revisionists, and check the facts before you buy into this right wing drivel.

[notbush]

41. Souter was a Bush 1 appointment.

[leftynyc]

49. I'm pretty sure Souter was nominated by Bush

Reagan nominated O'Connor, Kennedy and Scalia.

[Rebel_with_a_cause]

42. Ron just handed Kerry the election

Bush's WH "sleeps" are numbered.

[DaveSZ]

47. I wish I had seen it

Will it be replayed on c span?

[SodoffBush]

58. I heard the whole thing on MSNBC

Check over there.

"The Great Communicator" sceptor has been passed from father to son Ron, though I fear the eulogy's subtlety will leave Bush Jr. scratching his head.

[stevielizard]

50. *'s family friend tried to kill my Dad!

Have we EVER had a president (even Washington or Lincoln?) who actually knew all of his enemies on such a social level? Did Washington know George III? Or did Lincoln know Jefferson Davis? It seems the *es knew the Hitlers, the Hinckleys, the Binladens, the Husseins, plus lots more on a social level. Once again, preaching to the choir, but GODDAMN!

[kaiso]

53. What do you guys think of Ron Jr on the ticket with Kerry?

[i_c_a_White_Ghost]

54. Ron Jr. has my Respect!

He's been on Msnbc every once in a while, and he's always made it clear he can't stand *sh policy's. As far as his father's concern, he definitely has his respect though he disagreed with him. A class act!

[snippy]

56. I find it hard to believe that every speech was not screened and approved

in advance. However, that does not mean that Ron did not slip something extra in without anyone's knowledge. I expect to hear more about what he intended by his comments.

As much as I liked the slam at Bush about the mandate from God, my favorite Ron Reagan comment about Bush is:

"My father crapped bigger ones than George Bush," says the former president's son, in a flame-throwing conversation about the war and the Bush administration's efforts to lay claim to the Reagan legacy.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/04/14/ron_reagan/index_np.html

[ronnykmarshall]

59. It was the family's memorial to Ron.

They didn't have to run their remarks by anyone for approval.

All three of the kids did a wonder job. Too bad Maureen wasn't there as well.