More (NEW) Abu Ghraib Prison Photos [GRAPHIC WARNING]. . .

[TeeYiYi]

An unmuzzled dog appears to be used to frighten a detainee at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
Two military dog handlers told investigators that intelligence
personnel ordered them to use dogs to intimidate prisoners.


An Iraqi detainee appears to be restrained after having suffered injuries to both legs at Abu Ghraib.
It is unclear whether his injuries were from dog bites.


A US soldier gives the "thumbs up" sign as she appears to be stiching up a prisoner's leg wound.
It is unclear whether the injury was from a dog bite.

http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444

TYY

This thumbsup shit is getting on my nerves.

On Edit: Added 'Graphic Warning' to subject line. Thanks AZDemDist6

[NMDemDist2]

1. well with Rayguns funeral over

I guess we're back to the "real" news hmm?

I think I'd add a "graphic" photo warning tho, that is so sick letting the dog savage the man

[TeeYiYi]

2. Pics were actually posted yesterday . . .

. . . just overlooked by DU for some unknown ray gun . . . er, reason.

TYY

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kaitykaity]

96. This misspelling is deliberate.

Kind of like the way we spell "Moran." Goes with the pic
of a stupid Republican who also doesn't know how to spell.

Aw, poor you. Can't handle a little constructive
criticism?

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

Oh and the mass graves? You can credit Bush 41 for those.
He told the Shias to rise up against Saddam, and when they
did, he left them to hang and die at Saddam's hand--using
American helicopters to do it.

Gawd, where's a moderator when we need one.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lanparty]

110. It WOULD be that bad if ...

Americans were treated in this way. This is the point. We are implicitly giving other nations permission to treat our captives this way in future wars.

These are NOT isolated incidents. Permission for this behavior came DIRECTLY from President George W Bush!!!!!

[kiahzero]

128. Here are some facts for you

Fact: He is not an anti-war candidate. He voted for the war.
Fact: One does not exclude the other, except to those who are too narrow-minded to grasp any but the simplest scenarios. He was never "anti-war" in the strictest sense, but he was not in favor of this war. His vote for the war was the superior option in a series of bad alternatives.

Opinion: he changed his tune to win the nomination.
Good thing you marked that as "opinion," seeing as it's complete bullshit.

Opinion: If you want us out of Iraq sooner than later - vote Nader!

In other words, if you want to abandon a country for the second time in a row, all out of a misguided desire to be "pure," vote Nader. Gee, sounds about right, doesn't it?

[bitchkitty]

136. Green, are you?

Sure, I believe you. Of course you are. Mmm hmmm.

FYI: Bush is a chimp. Tell your friends.

[bluestateguy]

3. You know

I hope these soldiers are sent to the brig and that they receive "prison justice" over there. They can go to hell.

[TeeYiYi]

5. Yup. Me too. Check this out . . .

CA Guardsman alleges detainee abuse in Iraq
Published on Thursday, June 10, 2004

A California National Guardsman says three fellow soldiers brazenly abused detainees during interrogation sessions in an Iraqi police station, threatening them with guns, sticking lit cigarettes in their ears and choking them until they collapsed.

Sgt. Greg Ford said he repeatedly had to revive prisoners who had passed out, and once saw a soldier stand on the back of a handcuffed detainee's neck and pull his arms until they popped out of their sockets.

"I had to intervene because they couldn't keep their hands off of them," said Ford, part of a four-member team from the 223rd Military Intelligence Battalion that questioned detainees last year in Samarra, north of Baghdad. He said the abuse took place from April to June.

<snip>

Ford said the soldiers routinely brought guns into the interrogation room, and he once saw his team leader pointing a pistol at a detainee's head.

More: http://www.sfexaminer.com/article/index.cfm/i/061004b_iraq

TYY

[lanparty]

111. THIS ...

... is Hanoi Hilton behavior!!!!!

[Wilber_Stool]

63. Chances are

that they will be treated like misunderstood heroes. It will be the easiest time anyone ever did.

[King_Crimson]

126. Guarantee ya this...

I spent two years of the six I served in the USAF('71-'77) in Thailand, am an American Legion, VFW member... and you let one of these sicko, coward "soldiers" get near me and start talking or bragging it up about this shit...and I swear I'll tear right into the fucker! I.m not the only one feeling this way in the vet clubs I belong to either! This is NOT what "interrogation" is about!
:grr::grr::grr::grr:

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

140. My husband

(active duty Army for 12 years and in Desert Storm) said he'd personally VOMIT all over any of these guys (or gals) if they were standing in front of them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. back to the news

ah the great communicator only managed to protect Junior
for a week...

[mopaul]

6. as always, the perky, smiling, thumbs up nazi girl

she gets me sooooo hot. thank teeyiyi, i've been waiting for these and more. always that perky girl....like an old 50's cereal commercial. fucking sick

[TeeYiYi]

9. I think I've finally seen lipstick on a pig . . .

. . . bitch put on lipstick for the photo op. WTF? :wtf:

TYY

[Kinkistyle]

17. She looks like "Rosie the Riveter"

The famous poster-girl who encouraged women to pick up the mens' slack while the boys were off at war. Except terribly perverted.

[number6]

66. she probably has the same brain as ann coulter .....

:puke:

[Must_B_Free]

7. I wonder if they put a firecracker up anyone's ass?

Who would have thought up that one? hmmmm...

[LibertyorDeath]

8. Sick Twisted Fuckers

[thebigidea]

10. may god continue to bless america

this'll help the insomnia.

[Renew Deal]

11. The thumbs up means...

that these guys were instructed to do that. There is no way that all of these soldiers would do the same thing without coordination.

[fishnfla]

35. "thumbs up" is actually an insult in Iraqi culture

the troops are taught that. It has been adopted by the iraqi's,since the frisr gulf war, partially as a joke I think

[Trajan]

41. Do YOU really believe ..

1) THIS display of the thumbs up sign is being used to insult an iraqi audience instead of a signal to those who might view the picture ? ...

2) NO coordination existed between these lower level operatives and Defense Department leadership elements who establish policy and control the military through its command structure ?

Your comment appears to dismiss both cases: There is actually no evidence that in THIS case someone who is 'mending' a severe laceration would be casting insults to an iraqi group or population, but appears to instead communicate the traditional 'thumps-up' to those who are actually viewing the image, which would undoubtably be americans ...

Nor does such a claim reduce the culpability AND the utter moral bankruptcy of those who control policy, and CERTAINLY implemented THESE policies to obtain EXACTLY THESE results ...

[SmokingJacket]

42. thumbs-up = new sieg heil

In any case -- whether the pictures were taken as war trophies or as tools to intimidate and threaten the prisoners, that symbol is pretty much desecrated for me.

[fishnfla]

137. I think you are reading way to much into my post

and are way off base in doing so. I was merely pointing out the facts that:
1. traditionaly the thumbs up is an insult in iraqi culture,as doni georgia indicates below
2. the troops are taught that it is an insult as part of their indoctrination to iraqi culture, which I read about in Harpers as part of their training
3. the sign has been adopted by Iraqi children and has become ubiquitous, and now has multiple meanings, I am conjecturing it may have become a parody of itself.

I was doing this as an informative response to the previous poster, who brought up the subject.

I dont quite follow all that other mumbo-jumbo you are attributing to me, and I really dont appreciate the insuations.

[doni_georgia]

57. Yep thumbs up in Iraq means same thing as middle finger in the US n/t

[MisterP]

72. yes, I remember Wolfowitz getting all giddy when

he was taking his tour through Baghdad and all the smiling locals were giving him the thumbs up. Then he returned to his hotel and his room was knocked in by a small missile and not a massive shower of flowers...

[makhno]

12. Unlike the putrid NYT

The Washington Post seems to have maintained at least some idea of what the role of a critical, independent press in a democracy should be. Note the gradual hardening of the situations depicted in the images - starting with the "fraternity prank" naked pyramid, following up with implied abuse in the second batch of group photos, the fecal humiliation and then the dogs. The blood in this picture raises the bar past the level of abuse and very much into torture territory, since the administration and its supporters, the media included, have been trying to imply that it ain't torture unless "excessive" physical pain is caused.

Well, that shit's pretty excessive right there. I'm awaiting the disculpatory memos.

[DoYouEverWonder]

23. Fresh blood

is usually another good indicator of torture.

[number6]

68. there's bush giving us the finger ...

...

[Eric J in MN]

39. OK, but the editors of the Washington Post were pro-war, and

OK, but the editors of the Washington Post were pro-war in their editorials before the Iraq War.

The editors of the NY Times in their editorials said to give the inspectors time instead of rushing into the Iraq War.

[the Kelly Gang]

13. My God, this is dreadful !..were are their heads at ???

[thebigidea]

14. on General Sanchez's approval of this stuff... hence the thumbs up

[mopaul]

15. they've reverted to the beast within us all

can you imagine the fun at that place after hours, all the hilarity and jocularity, torturing, filming, screaming, laughing, bleeding, partying, fucking. i can't believe they filmed it.

but i'm glad they did

[punpirate]

16. Our fearless President has...

... convinced these troops and their commanders that they are dealing with the people responsible for 9/11.

That's it, in a nutshell. They think they are extracting vengeance for what was done to us.

The smart ones, the ones that could see through the bullshit, are the ones now reporting these acts.

All the racism, xenophobia and fear in this country has been marshalled for this grand experiment in neo-imperialism. We've enlisted the poorest, least-educated and most fearful of our population to the dirty task of bringing our brand of democracy to the Middle East.

God save us from ourselves.

[anarchy1999]

19. Ah punpirate, nice to finally see you back ........

Everything you say is true. Isn't this a new photo of a new female from within our military? I don't recognize her from the last ugly bunch of photos. Hope to hear from you soon and am looking forward to photos from the Friday you were with us in Dallas at Halliburton.

[punpirate]

20. Apologies for the lack of photos...

... life has been a bit chaotic lately, and I haven't gotten them developed yet. Will soon.

Yeah, it's a new face, to me, anyway. I hope, at least, that she's a medic and not an amateur seamstress sewing on the guy's leg.

Cheers.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

60. Excellent point.

I had not thought of that, but I think you are dead on. The 9/11 angle must be a central point in their indoctrination.

[Hoping4Change]

76. Well said. nt

[fujiyama]

18. Each time I see these pics

my stomach gets queasy and I get chills down my spine. It leaves me somewhat numb...for I know that my nation did this.

It's about damn time we get back to the news. I think the nation has climaxed to Reagasm already.

[aquart]

156. We did worse. They're not showing us the videos.

[ibegurpard]

21. Not that much blood.

How bad could it have been?
That's what they'll say to raise the bar again.

[Hoping4Change]

77. And that's Florence Nightingale.

[soup]

22. Thank you for the warning.

It's not enough. and for the sake of our own humanity, I hope it never is. There's just no way prepare to see something like this.

Even when I try to look away from the sheer terror and then the anguish on that poor man's face and try to get past the hideously out of place grin and thumbs up -

there's the casual hands in pockets stance of the onlooker in the first photo, the bloodstained floor in the background of the second one, and the boot planted on the man's chest in the third.

I have no words - just a horrible jumble of emotions that I'm not sure I can handle.

[Solly Mack]

24. Sick bunch of human filth

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. A few oddities about these pics

First there is no recognizable military insignia on anyone of the uniformed people?

Second, who is wearing the green camo, everyone in Iraq wears beige?

Third, what is the girl in the third pic doing? She looks like she's been picking or cutting the prisoner with that pointy looking tool in her right hand?

[Solly Mack]

26. Soldiers took BDUs as well as DCUs

green and desert uniforms...nothing odd about that.

She's stitching his leg. The man appears to have suffered from dog bites.

I can't see the picture well enough to ascertain insignia....though the girl is from the same group as England. I've seen her in the other torture pictures.

[NewHampshireDem]

27. What about the tattoo?

I could be wrong--since I don't know anything about this kind of stuff--but I thought tattoos on the lower part of the arm were now forbidden in the military? (Or does that rule just apply to certain branches? My friend told me that you can't join the NH Air Guard if you have tat's that would be visible when you where your short-sleeved uniform.) :shrug:

[Cooley Hurd]

32. Isn't that Spc. Sabrina Harmon (in the 3rd pic)?

Same girl as in this sickening picture:


Sy Hersh described these new pics previously. I think they're from the same incident as this pic:

[Solly Mack]

33. Yes. Thank you! Her name had escaped me earlier.

but I knew it was one of Englands torture buddies..

[elperromagico]

28. Is that a boot on the guy's chest

in the third picture? I can't tell if it's a boot or some sort of covering...

[floda]

31. Yep,

Yep,It sure looks like it.

It's a different cell block too. Notice the massive cell doors.

[Disturbed]

29. Slow exposure to more sadistic torture?

It seems that the Media is slowly showing more of the graphic violence and getting people used to more of what will be next. Rumor has it that next will be a military man raping a young Iraqi male in front of his mother. Photos and Video.

What is needed now after the Torture memo that was leaked to the Net is a document that has the Pres. signature approving torture.

[lanparty]

112. It will be faked/redacted ...

Just like the October 11 PDB.

[KayLaw]

30. Pure, undiluted evil

They are truly doing Satan's work though, like Graner, they probably consider themselves Christians. Thanks, Bush. I always wondered how decent, moral Germans felt when Hitler was doing the work of Lucifer in their names; now I know first hand.

[Nlighten1]

34. Sick, sick, sick.

I am so ashamed of our country.

[mopaul]

37. i'm ashamed too

but it's amazing how many americans AREN'T. that is scarier than the photos

[myccrider]

36. The top 2 pics are of the same detainee...

I think. Look at the pattern of body hair across the shoulders & chest & the haircut - shaved high above the ear on the sides. The face is hard to make out in the first photo, but the general shape of the face & the hairline in front is similar in both shots.

The first two are a sequenced set of photo's!

1) Pre dog attack.
2) Immediately after dog attack after field first aid.

(Third shot may be the same guy, the wound is in the right place if his leg is rotated out a bit while she is sewing.)

This is horrible! Can you imagine being arrested, stripped naked in front of your captors and then having dogs let loose on you?

I'm so sickened :puke: and angered :mad: by all of this.

EVERYONE who "enabled" this torture should be in jail.

(Isn't the thumbs up an insult in the Arab culture? Maybe that's part of why it is in almost all of the posed shots? I remember reading somewhere that one of the perps stated the photos were intended to intimidate and 'soften up' other detainees, also. That would lend even more credence to the allegations that these were NOT isolated incidents perpetrated by a few bad apples, IMHO.)

[lumpy]

50. The thumbs up

indicates 'here's one for Dubya', his favorite 'bring em' on sign'.

[mopaul]

54. and i doubt they gave him anything for his pain........n/t

[lanparty]

113. People are saying ...

That this treatment isn't up to the 5 puke rated Hanoi Hilton. But letting dogs rip into human flesh IS the type of service one would expect from the Hanoi Hilton.

I think that the speculation is true. The CIA is leaking these photos in a STAGED fashion. They are allowing the administration to lie in reaction, and THEN following up with photos that show they were lying.

BTW, attaching genitals to electric wires IS Hanoi Hilton service. Whether the wires are ATTACHED to anything is irrelevant. Besdies, one does not know what happened BEFORE or AFTER the photo was taken.

Finally, beating a prisoner to death IS DEFINITELY one of the finer services offered by the Hanoi Hilton. The US Military has really made remarkable strides in closing the "torture gap". Good fucking work assholes!!!!

[Eric J in MN]

38. Where were these published? (nt)

nt

[Domitan]

40. Washington Post

That's where these pictures are leaked.

[DemonFighterLives]

43. I can't stand this

But I'm right here looking at them anyway. MSNBC was reporting Sanchez ok'ed much of this stuff, but had to revise his list of tortures so that some required his approval. I could tell he was a dirty killing thug long ago. He always seemed so brazen when death was mentioned. I even had the goofy freepers call me unamerican for disliking Sanchez.

[randr]

44. Every image of the "thumbsup" should morph to * w/ thumbsup

[Hoping4Change]

79. Brilliant idea. nt

[zydeco]

45. Man I'm glad I never got

involved with a frat. I don't think I would have been able to participate in the hazing ritual.

[Hoping4Change]

80. Droll, very droll.

[Q]

46. Where is the accountability? Where does the Buck Stop?

- The leadership of the Nazi party was put on trial for the crimes of their subordinates. But where is the accountability now that we KNOW that the Bush* admin. was involved with these atrocities?

- Democrats...and indeed all Americans...can't allow the Bushies to cover up this latest in a long series of scandals. The ONLY way justice will ever prevail is for an INDEPENDENT COUNSEL begin investigations and bring criminal charges against EVERYONE with knowledge of these events.

[Hoping4Change]

83. In the thread about Hersh's comments about child abuse photos

a UDer left this interesting post:

"If those pics are released, how will that affect the troops currently in Iraq. Afghanistan, and all across the world? Think for a moment. I know we all want Bush to get what he deserves. And we all want the rest of the cabal to face the consequences....but think for one moment of the outrage from the entire muslim religion.

Here is what I would suggest....offer Bushco an exit strategy. He has 48 hours to voice his and his entire administration resignation. Cheny, Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice, Wolfowitz, Feith, Pearle, all must write their resignations, effective immediately....or else the pics get published...and the US suffers the consquences. AND THERE WILL BE DIRE CONSEQUENCES THAT ALL THE NUCLEAR, BIOLOGICAL AND CHEMICAL WEAPONS CANNOT DETER.

This still gives the republican party a little time to cobble together a new candidate for the November elections at which in the interim, government would be run by the Congress and Senate. They would appoint an interim White House resident with very very limited powers....basically keeping the seat warm until November.

Should he refuse, then publish all of the pics. It would be far far better for the US that he resign....torturing children will inflame the entire world. I say this in all seriousness -it would mean the end of the USA as we know it.

Some might suggest that this smacks of extortion....I would rather say that this is precisely what the US has done to Iraqi people...they imprison family members in the hopes that wanted people come forward and turn themselves in.........I would rather call this Karma in action.

[immune2irony]

47. THANK GOD! I'm so sick of this Reagan shit

Good ol' Abu Ghraib! Let's remind the people whose policies resulted in this: * and his neocon thugs! Let's remind them America is not all sugar n' spice like Reagan spoon-fed them. Let's show them THE TRUTH!

[lanparty]

114. Just imagine what we would see ...

If the little cameras with digital images were available in the jungles of Central and South America in the 80s. What kind of evil Reagan shit would we have seen????

[Porcupine]

127. Much the same and worse.....

I met a refugee from El Salvador in '83 that had been tortured by the National Guard. They had hung him and cut him down repeatedly. You could see the pattern of the rope they used in the scars on his neck.

As criminal as the Reagan regime, so goes the Bush family.

[lumpy]

48. Sure as hell looks like a puncture

wound, like a dog bite. Fresh blood on the floor indicates newly inflicted wounds. Damn these fiends to hell.

[Beetwasher]

49. Isn't That Nice, They Bandaged The Jagged Flesh From A Dog Bite

w/ duct tape and gauze! Nothing but the best...

[Miss Authoritiva]

70. Looks like they were trying to fashion a crude compression bandage to

slow down the bleeding. Suffice it to say, the immediate medical attention here is not good. This injured man should have been taken straight to the infirmary. Dog bites this severe would have to be treated in a much more sterile environment (not a dirty prison floor).The wounds would need to be carefully flushed out with saline, X-ray films would be needed to make sure that the bites didn't reach the bone (which could cause a deadly infection), tetanus and antibiotics would need to be given, and medical personnel with more experience than a medic would need to determine whether any tendons or ligaments were involved.

This is a long way of saying that not only inflicting the injuries is a war crime but also the failure to properly treat the injuries is a war crime.

[Beetwasher]

89. Indeed...

You got it...

[lanparty]

115. You would think ...

That they would have doctors on hand to resucitate their subjects when performing acts of torture. Shit, Winston had the VERY BEST medical care after each session with O'Brien. The military can't even manage that courtesy!!!!

Oh wait, doctors are bound by a hypocratic oath. They are honor bound by their profession to report conduct like that. No doctors for torture subjects at Abu Ghraib. Only scared, brainwashed kids who are intimidated by Military Intel and Civilian Mercenaries.

[Eloriel]

51. Re THUMBS UP -- in Iraq means something different than here

In the Middle East the Thumbs Up is equivalent to The Finger. This keeps getting overlooked re these photos. Once the Americans arrived, there was some shift to thumbs up being a positive "A-Okay" signal (probably esp. among the kids) -- but I have no doubt that in these photos that gesture is meant in the original Iraqi vernacular.

[Cat Atomic]

52. Oh look- it's the dog that was only being used to "scare" prisoners.

These fucking criminals need to be tossed in prison- and I'm not just talking about the uniformed pigs in the pictures.

[demgrrrll]

53. I think Sy Hersh is right, we have not begun to see evil. I am sick just

sick about this. I will work until I collapse to get this
lunatic out of the White House.

[DaveSZ]

55. Center for Economic and Social Rights

http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0609-06.htm


New Report Documents Extensive U.S. War Crimes In Iraq
Purported "Transfer of Sovereignty" Condemned as Farce, Despite UN Resolution

NEW YORK - June 9 - The Bush Administration is committing war crimes and other serious violations of international law in Iraq as a matter of routine policy, according to a report released today by the Center for Economic and Social Rights. The report, "Beyond Torture: U.S. Violations of Occupation Law in Iraq," documents ten categories of war crimes and rights violations regularly committed by U.S. forces. It can be accessed at http://www.cesr.org/beyondtorture.pdf.

"Torture is only the tip of the iceberg," said Roger Normand, an international lawyer who directs the Center. "From unlawful killings, mass arrests, and collective punishment to outright theft and pillage, the U.S. is violating almost every law intended to protect civilians living under foreign military occupation."

The report blames the Bush Administration for misusing the war against terrorism to exempt itself from the Geneva Conventions and other legal norms, creating a climate of impunity in which ordinary soldiers feel free to torture and abuse Iraqis. Rather than scapegoat those caught on camera, the report recommends that George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, and other responsible U.S. officials be held accountable for war crimes resulting from their policies.

According to the report, these crimes are so entrenched in U.S. policies towards Iraq that they will end only when the occupation itself is ended. This would require withdrawal of U.S. troops and an end to U.S. control over Iraq's political, economic and military affairs. Absent these fundamental changes, the purported June 30th "transfer of sovereignty" to Iraqi authorities is "a form of political theatre with no legal effect" on U.S obligations as an occupying power, notwithstanding the diplomatic fig leaf provided by yesterday's UN Security Council resolution.

[Wilber_Stool]

67. WHAT THE FUCK? N/T

[Hoping4Change]

84. Its not just US citizens who are concerned about the WH lunatic.

Much of the world is relying on people like you to oust this criminal imbelicile. All our thoughts are with you in your efforts.

Hopi Elders; 2001 Message

To my fellow swimmers:

There is a river flowing now very fast. It is so great and swift that
there are those who will be afraid. They will try to hold on to the
shore.They will feel they are being torn apart and will suffer greatly.
Know that the river has its destination.

The elders say we must let go of the shore, push off into the middle of the river, keep your eyes open and our heads above water. And I say: see who is there with you and celebrate. At this time in history we are to take nothing personally, let alone ourselves. For the moment that we do, our spiritual growth and journey come to a halt. The time of the lone wolf is over.

Gather yourselves. Banish the word "struggle" from your attitude and vocabulary. All that we do now must be done in a sacred manner and in celebration.

We are the ones we have been waiting for. Mitakie Oyasin



:grouphug:

[newsguyatl]

56. ...

this little ***T should be tied up by her ankles and beaten by the prisoners she so abused.

[qanda]

61. I just noticed that there's a boot on the man's chest

How completely and uttterly sad!

[lanparty]

116. The next Anne Coulter ????

Being mean is a culture I guess. Taking joy or pride in anothers suffering is the sign of a sick mind.

[Walt Starr]

58. Who has the Media Blast information

We need to be asking the "mainstream" "liberal" media why they haven't shown THESE pictures!

[arwalden]

59. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld... ALL CRIMINALS.

Perp walks and orange jumpsuits for all of them.

-- Allen

[Walt Starr]

62. Most important thread of the week kick!

:kick:

[troublemaker]

64. caption question

re: "An Iraqi detainee appears to be restrained after having suffered injuries to both legs"

It's seems in the photo that only one leg is injured (the rest is blood from that wound because he was left to lie in his blood for a while). I'm curious whether the captions are original or from the original publication of the pix. (This is a journalism question, not a 'severity of incident' question. One wound is plenty)

[number6]

65. now I see what the Distraction of Reagans Funeralaplooza

was for .....:(

[supernova]

69. Why the blurred out genitals?

The pics are already obscene to begin with, and daintily rempoving penises doesn't make them any more acceptable.

It's disgusting. And yes, I'm as pissed off about the :thumbsup: as I am about the torture. All of it is obscene.

[lanparty]

117. American media "standards"

Showing virtually ANY act of violence on American TV is perfectly acceptable. Indeed, it's encouraged to desensitize us to violence.

On the other hand, tits and penises are an offense against society. Our society is SO FUCKING SCREWED UP in this regard. It's a human body. GET THE FUCK OVER IT!!!!!!

[mopaul]

71. she's so popular now, she's a brand name

[Judi Lynn]

74. You're right. It's a perfect match, isn't it?

Thanks for taking the time to make the point so well.

She looks so happily involved in her work......

[Whoa_Nelly]

73. After viewing the antiwar page of graphics

I clicked on the the homepage link, and saw this headline:

Moon Over Washington

Why are some of the capital’s most influential power players hanging out with a bizarre Korean billionaire who claims to be the Messiah?

by John Gorenfeld, Contributor
6.09.04

Should Americans be concerned that on March 23rd a bipartisan group of Congressmen attended a coronation at which a billionaire, pro-theocracy newspaper owner was declared to be the Messiah – with royal robes, a crown, the works? Or that this imperial ceremony took place not in a makeshift basement church or a backwoods campsite, but in a Senate office building?

The Washington Post didn't think so. For a moment on April 4, a quote from the keynote speech was in the Web version of its "Reliable Sources" column. The speaker: Sun Myung Moon, 84, an ex-convict whose political activities were at the center of the 1976-8 Koreagate influence-peddling probe. That's when an investigation by Congress warned that Moon, after having befriended Richard Nixon in his darkest hour, was surrounding himself with other politicians to overcome his reputation: as the leader of the cult-like Unification Church, which recruited unwary college students, filled Madison Square Garden with couples in white robes, wed them in bulk and demanded obedience.

That was before he launched the Washington Times – "in response to Heaven’s direction," as he would later say – and a 20-year quest to make his enemies bow to him. He has also claimed, in newspaper ads taken out by the Unification Church, that Jesus, Confucius, and the Buddha have endorsed him. Muhammad, according to the 2002 ad, led the council in three cries of "mansei," or victory. And every dead U.S. president was there, too – because Moon's gospel is inseparable from visions of true-blue American power.

Now, this March, Moon was telling guests at the Dirksen Senate Office Building that Hitler and Stalin, having cleaned up their acts, had, in a rare public statement from beyond the grave, called him "none other than humanity's Savior, Messiah, Returning Lord and True Parent."

more...
http://gadflyer.com/articles/?ArticleID=131

:wtf:

[Hoping4Change]

88. A link to photos of Moon crowned Messiah in US Senate!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1774320&mesg_id=1775445&page=

[lanparty]

118. This HAS to come out !!!

But remember that Danny Davis has to be removed from Congress as well. He was the dumb fucker carrying Moon's crown with head lowered.

When your toes go gaingreen, you have to cut them off to save the body. Danny Davis is gangrenous and in the power of that fucking Moony lunatic. Democrats can't afford someone like this on THEIR side!!!!!

[Hoping4Change]

75. As someone who doesn't ever use bitch. I'm using it now.

The bitch is wearing blood-red lipstick. Its identical to the blood oozing from the wound.

I'm going to puke.

[VolcanoJen]

78. Scumbag pieces of sub-human shit.

That's what these soldiers are. There's no gentler way to say it.

God, I am steaming mad right now!!!!!!!!

[Kazak]

81. What's with the thumbs up in all these pictures?

Is that seeming way to common, or is it just me?

[SOS]

82. Here are Bushco's LIES prior to release of these war crimes photos

A press release from the US Embassy in Tokyo dated April 8, 2003:

Iraqis Who Commit War Crimes Will Be Prosecuted, Parks Says
Coalition accords full legal protection to Iraqi combatants

By Jacquelyn S. Porth
Washington File Security Affairs Writer

A top U.S. military legal expert says coalition forces are granting captured Iraqi soldiers all the protections called for by the Geneva Conventions and other relevant laws, but those Iraqis found to have committed war crimes will face prosecution.

In an April 7 Pentagon briefing, W. Hays Parks, special assistant to the Judge Advocate General for the U.S. Army, noted that the United States and Iraq are both parties to the Geneva Conventions requiring them to treat prisoners of war (POWs) according to set international standards. All parties are obligated to follow the laws of war, he said.

The 1949 Geneva Conventions apply to anyone serving in the military who is wounded or becomes sick on the battlefield, those who are in the same category but are shipwrecked, POWs, and civilians who are held by the enemy.

Any soldier who is captured or surrenders, Parks said:

-- must be treated humanely;
-- cannot be executed or endangered while in captivity;
-- should be removed from the battlefield as swiftly as possible and protected "from physical or mental harm";
-- must be given adequate food, shelter and medical care;
-- must be protected from "acts of violence, insults or public curiosity";
-- need only provide -- under questioning -- name, military rank, serial number and birth date;
-- cannot be tortured physically or mentally;
-- should be allowed to retain his or her personal property, or, if it is collected it must be "receipted";
-- should be given access to representatives of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) as soon as practical;
-- should be protected from assault, including sexual assault; and
-- if a soldier dies in captivity (or dies in battle), the body must be protected from pillage and maltreatment, interred, and his or her identification provided to the ICRC.

http://tokyo.usembassy.gov/e/p/tp-20030408a4.html

[Walt Starr]

85. I don't have the power to pin this thread to the top

but I sure as hell can come back and keep kicking it.

We are like the Germans of May, 1945. We must be FORCED to look at the crimes our nation committed in our names!

[Walt Starr]

86. Okay, I think we've got a murder story here. Look closely

First, look at the man in this picture:



Now, look at this one, it's the same guy:



Same guy again with the dog bit injury (patched via a dirty T-shirt and duct tape the all purpose fixer upper):



Now, it's fairly obvious Spc Harmon is patching up the same dog bite victim here:



Here's the kicker! Look closely at the facial features you can see. Spc. Harmon is posing with THE SAME TORTURED MAN IN THE PREVIOUS FOUR PICTURES!!! THEY MURDER THIS GUY!!!!:

[TeeYiYi]

87. Good eye Walt . . .

. . . I concur. :kick:

TYY

[kymar57]

90. I disagree

The assault vic has a serious black 5 o'clock shadow type beard. The unfortunate murder victim appears to be older, with a thinner graying beard. JMOP

[Walt Starr]

92. You're probably right

but I did get you to look at the photos closely again.

;)

EVERY AMERICAN SHOULD BE FORCED TO LOOK AT THIS!

[kymar57]

94. Mission Accomplished

No. Really.:hi:

[Snazzy]

95. she's not patching him up

She's threatening to put a knife in his wounds.

Not doing surgery on a dog bite (and I don't think she's a medic either--she's an MP).

----

I think the bite victim has a darker beard, BTW, than the guy on ice. But your thread posting motives are spot on. Cheers.

[Solly Mack]

98. It was reported early on that they would stitch the people up

themselves. Even cause an injury for the sole purpose of doing the stitching.(shades of Mengele)

MP's can be combat lifesavers as well. Some combat lifesavers are trained to stitch. The equipment for stitches would be available.

a combat lifesaver is not a combat medic of course..

[Snazzy]

99. yeah, looks like the guy (Graner?) is doing stitches

and I'm not a doctor.... But why would a knife/scalpel be involved with a dog bite?

Remember, one intent of the photos is to show to other prisoners.

[Solly Mack]

101. I'm not convinced she didn't "probe" the wound with the clamp

but you do use a clamp like device to pull the "thread" with..when stitching

Not entirely sure it was a clamp either though...though it would make sense IF she were aiding in the stitching. Sick fucks probably called it a "training" exercise.

I think the victim could have suffered dog bites severe enough to warrant stitches...it is possible.


It would not surprise me, at this point, if she used the device to make the wound worse either..

[Snazzy]

102. right, it is a clamp, he's got a needle

She's holding one end of the thread, like you say. (I blew it up locally here).

No doubt there's no anesthetic besides the boot and the guy with the needle (probably sitting on his legs).

So I'd say the patching up is probably torture itself.

Sick fucks indeed. Thumbs up.

[TorchTheWitch]

130. she's holding basic bandage scissors

Ms. Evil is holding a pair of basic bandage scissors. It appears from the way Mr. Evil (with the purple gloves) has his hands positioned and spanned that he is holding a piece of suture thread for Ms. Evil to cut. Basic bandage scissors have a rounded "nose" on the bottom "leg" of the scissors to avoid accidently scraping or cutting the patient's skin (not that I believe she gave a rat's rear about that). They look like this...



I recognized them as your basic bandage scissors from the "nose" at the end. My mom was a nurse and used hers for lots of things.

There's no doubt that they made no attempt to use any kind of sterilization... my mom would NEVER have used her unsterilized bandage scissors for cutting suture thread being used on a patient. They clearly didn't bother to clean the injury site or anything... I'd guess they wore the gloves for their own worthless protection.

This makes me thoroughly sick. That DISGUSTING smile! UGH!

[Dropkick]

143. Looked more like...

...an Olsen-Hager needle holder to me.


Or a Gillies needle holder.



Both of which are a needle holder/suture scissors combo (which would make a lot of sense to have in a "field" first aid type of kit, as it combines both your needle holder and suture scissors into one instrument, meaning less instruments to mess with). The Gillies seems more likely to me, as they are curved, which would make the already wider, slightly flattened end (the needle holder part) appear to be larger in comparison to the scissors portion.

***edited to say - I work with these instruments on a regular basis

[TorchTheWitch]

149. could be forceps

but I'm clearly seeing the "nose" at the end.

[lanparty]

119. If they murdered him ...

They gave him a good shave afterward!!! To me, the face doesn't match. It doesn't look like corpse is the same guy as the one threatened with the dog.

[Snazzy]

91. ADD radar kick

:hippie:

[AlCzervik]

97. for chissakes

if i see one more gawddamed thumbs up i'm gonna scream. These people are fucking sick.

[gardenista]

103. Kick in honor of Bab's "Beautiful Mind" nt

[Gregorian]

104. America is in big trouble. What the fuck is this about?

I swear I see these types of people every day in this country. They aren't an isolated case. These are the same people who live down the street from me. These are people who don't care about anyone.

These are Republicans.

[gardenista]

105. Kick

:kick:

[jean]

106. kick

[TacticalPeek]

107. I won't blame Reagan.

"He was, as you know, a famously optimistic man. Sometimes such optimism leads you to see the world as you wish it were as opposed to how it really is. At a certain point in his presidency, Dad decided he was going to revive the thumbs-up gesture. So he went all over the country, of course, giving everybody the thumbs up.

Doria (Ron Reagan Jr.'s wife) and I found ourselves in the presidential limousine one day returning from some big event. My mother was there and Dad was, of course, thumbs-upping the crowd along the way, and suddenly, looming in the window on his side of the car, was this snarling face. This fellow was reviving an entirely different hand gesture. And hoisted an entirely different digit in our direction. Dad saw this and without missing a beat turned to us and said, 'You see? I think it's catching on.'"

Ron Jr., from yesterday
http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news04/061204_news_ron.shtml

[Walt Starr]

108. Kick to the top, the world must see

This is REAL TORTURE, not some "frat prank".

:kick:

[mopaul]

109. kick it to death...........n/t

[UTUSN]

120. Kick n/t

[Snazzy]

121. see that and raise ya a kick n/t

[LibertyorDeath]

124. kicking

[Walt Starr]

122. Get back to the top!

:kick:

[Disturbed]

123. More on the way

I suspect the photos will become more gruesome. I also supsect that another memo tying the Pres. to appoval of torture will surface.

[xxqqqzme]

125. her parents must B

so proud....where were these people raised? and by what?



BTW, great shot of the shoe on the chest.

[LibertyorDeath]

129. When I get to the bottom I go back to the top of the slide

Where I stop and
I turn and I go for a ride Till I get to the bottom and I see you again

[Geo55]

131. Yes !

BRING IT ON !!
MORE BLOOD...MORE PAIN...MORE AGONY !

RAPTURE !!!

[okieinpain]

132. why are you guys getting all upset. this is just typical frat sh**, these

soldiers are just pledging these guy's to the good old american prison system. Geeezzz you guy's just take everything about ronnie's america and turn it upside down.

[Walt Starr]

133. Back to the top you go!

:kick:

[TacticalPeek]

134. Kick.

:kick:

[Catt03]

135. The explanation is

as Michael Hirsch, Newsweek said on C-Span this am:

(paraphrasing)
We are a nation that is moral and fair and we have set these standards for the entire world. Who are we now?

It is also about development of humans. We can make critical decisions because we can think; we are not animals.

These displays of glee about torturing others and sexual deviance should be a social science project for some enterprising student.

What's missing in development in these men and women: values, morals or intelligence? Where they abused by others, brainwashed, self hatred, weak egos? Where is the deficiency?

This could be one heck of a story.

[Walt Starr]

138. BAck to the top you go, no frat prank bullshit in THESE pictures

This is real, honest to gosh torture!

:kick:

[Deja Q]

139. Torture? Looks more like pure unbridled BRUTALITY

Apart from various moans and "owie", what's the dude going to say?

WIll they let him go if he spills the beans?

What beans? Is he a real prisoner or an innocent? If he's an innocent, the only thing he can do is to lie after being hurt so many times when saying "I know nothing". Upon discovery of the lie, they'll hurt him more or kill him.

I don't know. The whole world's been turned topsy-turvy by the psychopaths in power.

[molly]

141. I just watched the replay on C-Span of asscrack's

Tues testimony before the Judiciary Committee. It goes all the way to the top - take my word - this came from *.

on edit - I watched a lot of it Tues - you always catch more the second time.

[WillyT]

142. Anybody Know Who The 'Scared Constipated' Dude Was On...

AssCrack's right (our left on the screen)???

That guy had one uncomfortable expression on his face!!!

LOL!!!

:hurts:

[Walt Starr]

144. Probably the author of the memo

I would guess, anyway.

[WillyT]

145. Wow... Never Thought Of That !!!

Makes sense.

:shrug:

[molly]

146. He was an asscrack staffer - we were watching him

on Tues - should never play poker.

[TeeYiYi]

147. kick

TYY:kick:

[Rex]

148. I actually know one of those guys!

I served with him at Ft Drum. HOLY SHIT. He seemed like a good kid in 1998.

[mopaul]

150. kick

them out

[myrna minx]

151. Keep this kicked.

I can't stop crying. What have we become?

[TeeYiYi]

152. Monday kick . . .

Last week was consumed with Ray Gun pomp and annoyance. This week needs to convey the real message.

TYY:kick:

[mopaul]

153. kick

[rumguy]

154. sad, fucked up sadism

[LibertyorDeath]

155. found on page 4 of GD

Tisk Tisk

[Snazzy]

157. Still no other coverage of these photos anywhere

besides the one WAPO story mid-Raygunfest.

In fact, even other WAPO stories with link to abuse stories don't link it.

I checked Google News, nothing, unlike on May 21 when the last batch of photos came out and ALL the media reported the WAPO's release of them.

Even the Memory Hole doesn't have 'em. Need to write people!

The bloody dog bite photo speaks volumes and sure as hell ends the abuse versus torture debate in a pic is worth a million spin cycles way.

[bobbieinok]

158. .........

:kick:

[tom_paine]

159. They were SOOOOO happy to behave like Monsters

I tell you, they would do the same to US without a second thought.

[THUNDER HANDS]

160. I'll kick this too

since its the first time I've seen it.

Dis-freakin-gusting.

[spanone]

161. Kick!

[SheepyMcSheepster]

162. kick................for a few bad apples.

[LibertyorDeath]

163. *