Something in Ron Jr. speech just hit me...Re: "thumbs up."

[Armstead]

I realize this is a longshot, but it's one of those things that make you go "hmmmm.." :crazy:

Remember during the invasion of Iraq and so many Iraqis were giving the "thumbs up" signal?

There was discussion here and elsewhere (but naturally not in the mainstream media) that this might be the oppoosite than the show of support that we interpreted it as. There were reports that in some Arab cultures, the "thumbs up" gesture is actually a gesture of contempt and defiance, like our version of the middle finger.

Perhaps it's a coincidence (or my English-major literary analytical past coming back to haunt me) but something in Ron Jr. speech yesterday struck me as a possible reference to that.

Was Ron Jr. making a very subtle and veiled dig at the Iraq war, using those leftie discussions regarding that? Or is my imagination making connections where connections don't really exist?
I dunno. Maybe it's just coincidence or synchronicity. Or grasping at straws for relief from the endless lovefest in the media.

Whatever, it's interesting possibility.



From speech:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040612/ap_on_re_us/reagan_ron_reagan_text_1

"He was, as you know, a famously optimistic man. Sometimes such optimism leads you to see the world as you wish it were as opposed to how it really is. At a certain point in his presidency, Dad decided he was going to revive the thumbs-up gesture. So he went all over the country, of course, giving everybody the thumbs up.


(UNINTELLIGIBLE) and I found ourselves in the presidential limousine one day returning from some big event. My mother was there and Dad was, of course, thumbs-upping the crowd along the way, and suddenly, looming in the window on his side of the car, was this snarling face. This fellow was reviving an entirely different hand gesture. And hoisted an entirely different digit in our direction. Dad saw this and without missing a beat turned to us and said, "You see? I think it's catching on."

End snippet

[heidiho]

1. Little did Ron Sr. know it would go all the way to Abu Ghraib

so many years later. I think it's communication from Republican to Republican.

[many a good man]

2. So WHAT does thumbs-up REALLY mean to Iraqis?

Does anybody know the answer to this question or is it all conjecture???

[Armstead]

3. I heard both at the time

It was never satisfactorarily answered for me. Some said it is a well-known Iraqi cultural thing. Others said it is hooey.

[w13rd0]

4. I think that with the Sunni's, with ties to Iran...

...it might or might not be an obscene gesture, with the Shia population, less so. In other words, who knows. It's not as if we have experts on customs in the region over there or over here letting us know.

[KoKo]

5. I had your exact same reaction, Armstead! I thought why would he pick

that particular story to tell given what it means in the context of prison torture.

But, after I thought about it, it occurred to me that only here on DU and maybe sites which pick up tidbits from here, was the "thumbs up" gesture so analyzed as to what it meant to Iraqi's as opposed to what it
would normally mean here in America. I think we spent more time on it and maybe over-analyzed it and unless Ron scouts DU, he may not have thought any more about it than that.

But, who knows. There were certainly alot of jabs at Chimp yesterday that were under the radar for most Repugs. Maybe Ron was making a statement by using that anecdote.

Please see my post, if you have time about Poppy's warning to Chimp here in GD. The transcript of Poppy's speech is there, but I pulled quotes out that are very interesting. I don't think it was just Ron who was making political statements, it was Poppy, too.

:hi: