A question about not paying taxes as a protest.

[Cleita]

I often thought that an unpopular government could be sent packing if the people refused to pay taxes. Now I know that in the good old USA this is tantamount to being sent to Leavenworth and having the key thrown away.

But, if by chance the chimperor can't be pried out of the White House, is there a way to withhold ones taxes? I thought perhaps one could fill out their tax forms and then set the money aside in an escrow account. Like if every taxpayer, or at least a significant number of them did this, with instructions not to release the money unless certain conditions are met, just how much legal clout does the IRS have to demand payment?

Let's say if we had done this after selection 2000. What if we demanded a new election with proper ballots before we released our tax money. I mean couldn't clever class action lawyers argue that the Constitution of Florida as well as that of the United States had been violated. Since there would be a question about the validity of this newly elected administration, wouldn't we have a legal right to withhold our money and access to the Treasury of this administration until there was no question of a doubt that the administration was legitimately elected?

Just for the sake of a mental exercise, could this have been possible? Of course you would have to take the maximum in deductions so that withholding wouldn't be deducted. I'm afraid that marching peacefully with signs is no longer effective. We need something with more teeth in it. We need a back up plan for November, just in case.

[camero]

1. I think the only thing that will work...

are General Strikes nationwide. Then you have a two-pronged approach of not paying taxes to Bushco or feeding the corporate monster. It'll never happen though. People are just too fearful.

[Cleita]

9. A general strike would be good too.

eom

[yardwork]

2. My parents tried this during Vietnam.

The feds called their employers and forced them to garnishee their wages. Most employers can't fight this, no matter how sympathetic they might be.

[ant]

3. war tax resistors

There's an interesting history of war tax resistors here:
http://www.warresisters.org/history_wtr.htm

As for what you're talking about, I know that people in my building are fighting with management over a variety of things and instead of paying their rent to management they pay it into an escrow (? or something) account. I'm not sure what that means, exactly, but from what I've gathered the idea sounds similar to what you're talking about. Once the dispute is settled I think the courts deal with distributing the money to either management or back to tenants or a combination of both. It would be interesting to know if that sort of arrangement can be done with taxes, but I imagine you'd have to have a lawsuit of some sort first.

[NCLib23]

4. For something like this to not get laughed out of court

you need a legal (or at least plausibly legal) case that you don't owe the money.

For the election stuff, your debt comes from the prior year, so not paying taxes 4/15/01 is not paying your debt for the last years of the Clinton presidency. you could wait a year and then do it, but I don't seen any case where you can claim that because he wasn't elected fairly, it affects your tax burden.

I think your intention is good, just not feasible.

[izzie]

5. It was done . We would see the jail pictures.

I recall one well known person would not pay the % that went to DOD.

[laura888]

17. Please explain? Link? Who was this well know person? n/t

[sendero]

6. Basically...

... the gov't can NEVER let anyone get out of paying taxes for any reason, because if they did it wouldn't be long before everyone in the country had a reason to not pay.

Find a different way to protest. Nobody ever gets away with this one.

[TreasonousBastard]

7. Ain't gonna be easy.

You can google Priscilla Adams and find out all sorts of stuff, but here's a quick note on what her employer, a Quaker meeting, has been going through supporting her on her war tax resistance.

http://www.pym.org/pm/comments.php?id=P1010_0_10_0_C

It has been an expensive and exhausting fight, and there is a good chance Adams may lose. I doubt many more are up to this kind of fight.

[Cleita]

8. Seldom does one person against the system get fruitful

results. Maybe Roe vs. Wade is an exception. This is why it would really take a very significant number of the population to do this. There is that strength in numbers. Fighting a few dissidents isn't hard, but what if the Department of the Treasury's lawyers and agents were overwhelmed with dissidents, then it's possible you could have something.

[FreedomSpirit]

10. Have a look here

regarding applicability of the US income tax

http://www.861.info/

[Cleita]

12. Thanks. I'll give it a hard look.

eom

[newyawker99]

13. Hi FreedomSpirit!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[TreasonousBastard]

11. true, but...

how to get such a massive protest?

The simple and hard truth is that it is extremely difficult to get much of the population moving for anything. Half of 'em don't even bother to vote. We may have gotten a couple of million to demonstrate against the war over the years, but that's still a tiny fraction of the almost three hundred million here.

Voting and protests are "free"-- they have very little cost to them. No money, no jail time, no unemployment, no being ostracised... And still we can't get everyone on board. How difficult is it to find enough people with the courage or conviction to walk the walk and risk everything over a principle? Lose their jobs and their families, spend every penny they have on lawyers and still end up in a federal slam?

Labor organizers have moaned for years that the biggest battle they have often isn't with the bosses, but with the workers-- too many of them are afraid to lose what little they have for the chance for more. It is a bet they are not willing to make.

Sure, it's a simple observation that the government isn't going to after millions of people who just refuse to pay taxes, but just try to get those millions to refuse. If they won't even bother to vote the bastards out, don't bet on them risking their lives.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cleita]

15. Hey don't you know how to spell that?

It's moran. :kick:

[laura888]

16. Remember: Thoreau refused to pay during the Mexican American war

he said:

"If a thousand were not to pay their tax bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them and enable the state to commit violence and shed innocent blood."


I agree that this is definitely an option.

The fact remains: my tax dollar is being spent on bullets to kill innocent Iraqis.

No one can dispute this fact.

[Cleita]

18. I'm not even suggesting that we don't pay. What I am suggesting

is to hold the money in escrow until we are assured that the money won't be stolen by a rogue administration to wage an illegal war, like what is happening now.

[laura888]

19. gotcha

for this day and age - this is definitely the better option