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The Covert Kingdom: Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Texas

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 08:38 PM
Original message
The Covert Kingdom: Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Texas
Edited on Sat Jun-12-04 08:42 PM by mzmolly
by Joe Bageant
www.dissidentvoice.org
May 18, 2004



snip

I'll Fly Away, Oh Lordy (But you won't)

Yes, when The Rapture comes Christians with the right credentials will fly away. But you and I, dear reader, will probably be among those who suffer a thousand-year plague of boils. So stock up on antibiotics, because according to the "Rapture Index" it is damned near here. See for yourself at http://www.raptureready.com. Part gimmick, part fanatical obsession, the index is a compilation of such things as floods, interest rates, oil prices, global turmoil... As I write this the index stands at 144, just one point below critical mass, when people like us will be smitten under a sky filled with deliriously happy naked flying Christians.

But to blow The Rapture off as amusing-if-scary fantasy is not being honest on my part. Cheap glibness has always been my vice, so I must say this: Personally, I've lived with The Rapture as the psychologically imprinted backdrop of my entire life. In fact, my own father believed in it until the day he died, and the last time I saw him alive we talked about The Rapture. And when he asked me, "Will you be saved?" Will you be there with me on Canaan's shore after The Rapture?" I was forced to feign belief in it to give a dying man inner solace. But that was the spiritual stuff of families, and living and dying, religion in its rightful place, the way it is supposed to be, personal and intimate -- not political. Thus, until the advent of the Reconstructionist Christian influence, I'd certainly never heard The Rapture spoken about in the context of a Texan being selected by God to prepare its way.

Now however, this apocalyptic belief, yearning really, drives an American Christian polity in the service of a grave and unnerving agenda. The pseudo-scriptural has become an apocalyptic game plan for earthly political action: To wit, the messiah can only return to earth after an apocalypse in Israel called Armageddon, which the fundamentalists are promoting with all their power so that The Rapture can take place. The first requirement was establishment of the state of Israel. Done. The next is Israel's occupation of the Middle East as a return of its "Biblical lands," which in the Reconstructionist scheme of things, means more wars. These Christian conservatives believe peace cannot ever lead to The Rapture, and indeed impedes the 1,000 year Reign of Christ. So anyone promoting peace is an enemy, a tool of Satan, hence the fundamentalist support for any and all wars Middle Eastern, in which their own kids die a death often viewed by Christian parents as a holy martyrdom of its own kind. "He (or she) died protecting this country's Christian values." One hears it over and over from parents of those killed.

The final scenario of the Rapture has the "saved" Christians settling onto a cloud after the long float upward, from whence they watch a Rambo Jesus wipe out the remnants of the human race. Then in a mop-up operation by God, the Jews are also annihilated, excepting a few who convert to Christianity. The Messiah returns to earth. End of story. Incidentally, the Muslim version, I was surprised to learn recently, is almost exactly the same, but with Muslims doing the cloud-sitting."


end snip

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May2004/Bageant0518.htm

Good read here.

The article ends:

Pardon me, but religious tolerance be damned. Somebody had to say it.

This article is not a slam on christianity, it's an examination of the Christian Reconstructionist thought process, or uhm lack their of. ;)

It's frightening to think that our President subscribes to this train of thought. EEK! :scared:
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sorry, but I think that a reference to bush* and the words 'train of
thought' don't exactly belong in the same sentence, let along paragraph.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I spose I 'train and wreck' are a bit more appropriate?
;)
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theivoryqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. deliriously happy naked flying Christians.
I think that says it all!!!
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. LOL, I loved that line. But, is it ok to be 'naked' just because it's the
end of the world? :P
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Your assessment is toooooooo funny LOL
Unfortunately, the whole thing at that site and so many others is very true. These folks do think this way and are jumping up and down for everything to come falling down.

I am a reformed evangelical. I grew up in this stuff. I know how these folks think. Some are a wee bit more constrained, other's go all the way to snake handling. The one uniting theme is the "End of the Age" scenario as you've described it.

I can't believe I fell for it for so long. As I said, I grew up in it so I guess I was indoctrinated, so to speak. I'm still a believer but not in this way. Now, I'm a "heretic" Liberal Christian....YOWZA!

It's absolutely horrifiying how people can get so entrenched in a belief system......even to the point of death (usually of others)
We that grew up in these systems believe because we were told it was right by others near to us. We get into it, get the "warm fuzzies" at some point and feel it is ABSOLUTELY correct. We are taught NOT to think outside the box. Most religions do this to their adherents.

The odd thing about this neo christian movement: fundie/evangelical/dominionist/reconstructionist thing is that all the end time scourges that are suppose to happen, the wars, the christians being "persecuted" etc....all of it is being brought about BY THEIR OWN HANDS!! A self fulling prophecy, as it were.
Unfortunately, this craziness is going to get all of us killed in the meantime.

Occasionally, I write in to some of their websites and give 'em the straight skinny on where they've all gone off their rails. These people's covers have got to be yanked by other believers because simply removing Bush from office isn't going to stop THEM
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. This article would be right up your alley then...
The author is a reformed fundie as well.

I am a heretic liberal christian 'yowza' too! ;)

But, I was raised a liberal heretic so I can't claim an epiphany.

I did marry into a fundie family though, and it's tough I tell ya! :hi:
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Hiya! Whew, thought I was gonna be all alone out here....
.................:hi:...........................

yes, it has to be a very tough row to hoe being married into a fundie family. 'Thank you, Supreme being, that I don't have to endure being in that situation and I don't have to subject others to my being like that anymore....amen' :)
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. A-MEN!
;) :hi:
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks, Someone Posted Re: Reconstructionists A While Back
Edited on Sat Jun-12-04 09:11 PM by cryingshame
I had NO idea how "mainstream" such beliefs hads become.

That many read and adhere to the Left Behind books/mentality says something about our Society.

Not sure what.

Perhaps our inability to feel connected to one another?
Inability to see the Spiritual in the Material world so they want to blow it up?

Any psychologists who could give insight into this mindset?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I found this article at the discussion boards here:
at The Center For Progressive Christianity

www.tcpc.org

Their are some provacative discussions here, but it could use more traffic. ;)

http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Progressive Christianity.... The Religious Left
needs to stand up and be counted this year!

Thanks for the link.

Have you ever heard of Rabbi Lerner at Tikkun.org?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I have not read him but I've heard of him. I am just finding my way as a
Edited on Sat Jun-12-04 10:05 PM by mzmolly
Christian Leftist. I am really a heretic according to most Christians ;) I'll take a look at the site, thanks!

I hope you'll register and take part in discussion at tcpc?

Also note this organization:

It's a leftist alternative to the Christian Reich ! ;)

http://www.interfaithalliance.org

We stand for participation in the political process by people of faith, and against the view of the Religious Right that one’s political beliefs are the measure of one’s faith.

We stand for the proposition that America’s diverse religious heritage is its greatest asset, and against the notion that only the majority faith tradition deserves public acknowledgement and respect.

We stand for the view that all the different faith traditions should have a voice in our nation’s public life, and be free to engage their prophetic voice. We oppose efforts to use government resources or authority to give special preference to a particular religious institution or view.

We stand for inclusion and diversity in American society, and oppose efforts to sow discord and hate, especially under the guise of religion.

We stand for healthy interaction between religion and government and work against efforts to impose religious litmus tests on public policy."


I really think the Christain left needs to better organize and mobilize. :hi: I plan to join and support this organization. It's bad enough these people are stealing elections, let alone the flag and christianity itself.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Tikkun.org - What a great site, thanks!
:hi:
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Got Your Suggestions All Bookmarked
Question:

Why do fundies want to wait for the Rapture?

Why can't they look for Love, Joy and Unity right here and now?

:shrug:

Why not build a paradise on Earth rather than wait for someone else to do it for them.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I agree. It also seems they want *bring about* the rapture?
Edited on Sat Jun-12-04 10:16 PM by mzmolly
Which is very frightening when you think about the fact that they are in power.

I am so tired of these people poisoning the name of the God they profess to believe in. *sigh*
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kwolf68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. The Flat Earth Society Lives

I guess the world is only 2000 years old...despite the radioactive isotope decay that essentially proves it is over 4.5 billion years old.

These people are ahhh...whats the word I'm looking for here? .... ahh, it's coming to me, what is that word?

STUPID!!!
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delete_bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
30. 2,000 years is WAY off...
it's more like, well, 6,000! You see, you start with Adam and Eve and add it all up, it's in the Bible you know, all of the begetting and begatting. Why muddy the waters with all of this science based carbon dating stuff.

I do admit do dating carbon based units, however.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. After reading this I won't sleep, tonight. I sent it to a relative that
I have big problems with because I was so freaked out. This person is a believer in all of this. It's the only article I've found that really shows what we are up against and how clueless most of us are about these folks.

I don't know whether to thank you for my nightmares tonight, or for alerting me to get the hell out of the US..until this is over, if it's ever over.

:scared:
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. America was not founded as a Christian Nation!
Thomas Jefferson was a Deist. A Deist according to Webster's is (1) The belief in the existence of a God on purely rational grounds without reliance on revelation or authority; especially in the 17th and 18th centuries. (2) The doctrine that God created the world and its natural laws, but takes no further part in its functioning. Thomas Jefferson wrote his own version of the Bible (The Jefferson Bible), of which I own a copy. It TOTALLY removes all accounts of the divinity of Christ and all of the miracles - including the virgin birth. Benjamin Franklin was raised Episcopalian, but was also a Deist. John Adams was raised a Congregationalist, but later became a Unitarian. Here are what some of the other founders had to say about it.

John Adams:

"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

John Adams again:

"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."

Still more John Adams:

“...Thirteen governments thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”


Thomas Jefferson:

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."

Jefferson again:

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."

From Jefferson’s biography:
“...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, ‘Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,’ which was rejected ‘By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.’”

James Madison:

"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

James Madison again:

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

Thomas Paine:

"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible)."

Finally, a word from Abraham Lincoln:


The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
-- Abraham Lincoln


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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. How very interesting! I guess I'm a Christian Diest.
Edited on Sun Jun-13-04 12:01 AM by mzmolly
;)

I believe that Christ was a man (however was the leader/founder of my church/movement) - I don't believe that he is 'god'. I also don't really believe that God much interferes with earthly affairs?

checkout the forums at tcpc.org

http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Oh, I'm so sorry.
I think waking up is the first step.

I am convinced that *truth* will prevail, and these people will come around eventually.
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Don't want to add to your paranoia but...
I know some "religious" folks who are also political activists (left leaning)...they've already made their move to Canada. They fear that the RW religious/political situation in America isn't going to get better any time soon................so they split. They believe that being in Canada is safer at this point than living and pro acting in America. So, ..................Poof!
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Welp, depending on what happens in November...
Me and mine may be *poof* as well?
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #25
37. It would be prudent to start making
"just in case" plans ahead of time. These folks wrote back and said it was a little "iffy" when they crossed. If Bushler wins, he could close the borders tighter than.....well, you get the picture.

These folks I speak of bought property FIRST. Then they connected with others up there beforehand. Having contacts of some sort are helpful in any case. Something to think about...
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
20. I, too, have had my life marred with fundie
beliefs of impending armageddon and the doom and destruction of non-believers. As a result, I don't go to any kind of church anymore but exercise a sort of church within my soul and the spirit of my conscience.

The Boy King * has been asked how he thinks history will view him (not the exact words) and he has stated plainly that there won't be any history because we'll all be dead -- except him, and all the fundy martyrs, of course.

The pope regards Shrub as the "anti-christ." I don't remember where I read that and if anybody else saw that quote please post the link. I will keep looking for it.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. I read the same thing. So tempting to send that 'quote' off to my fundie
Catholic friends.

I don't go to church either, but found a very cool/liberal one near by. It's a UCC and the pastor (a woman) actually prayed for *economic justic, and peace* at the last worship I attended. They also had literature from The Sierra Club on tables for those attending service. One piece of literature was about Bush's environmental policies and how they are damaging the State I live in. I knew then, that I had found a Church home as it were. Now, if I could only wrestle my arse out of bed in time to attend on Sundays! ;)
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Lol...I have the same problem.
Edited on Sun Jun-13-04 12:55 AM by Andromeda
It's hard for me to get up on Sunday morning to attend church. What is UCC? If I could find a nice liberal church, I might attend -- maybe -- I still have that getting up thing to overcome.:)
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. UCC is United Church of Christ. They are very liberal as far as Christian
Churches are concerned.

Some joke that UCC stands for Unitarians Considering Christ. ;)

Howard Dean is a member of the UCC to my understanding, which bolsters my personal opinion of the congregation. They sent out a letter supporting him recently, and I for one appreciated that. :)

Here is their website for more info. They have a church locator as well.

http://ucc.org/index2.html


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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Thanks, mzmolly...
I'll check and see if there are any in my area.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. You betcha ! Let me know how it goes....
;)
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Here is a thread that had that article about the Pope and Bush
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. .I didn't see that thread!
I'm glad so many people have picked up on this. To me, G.W. is just plain evil. I've never thought of him as a "Christian" man. My husband's brother is a rabid fundie Christian and he thinks Bush is an "honorable" man.

Yuck!
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. I'm not sure I get you...did you find the thread with
the link to an article in the first post???

I'm sorry about your bro n law. I've got one too but he is a gentle sort. It's his WIFE that's rabid about religious matters. Sadly, neither of them are very bright, if you get my meaning.

When people believe whole heartedly about something and NEVER allow themselves to think independently, it's dangerous to them and to others. It's terribly sad for all.

One thing that occurs to me about these people is that just maybe some of them are AFRAID to think that "it could happen in America"...that our beloved leaders COULD ACTUALLY BE CRIMINALS...it's just too much to take in. We live in la la land here with all our comforts and consumerism etc. We have been lulled into a sense of safty and nirvana.
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. Pope fears that Bush is the anti-Christ...
http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKY/is_9_27/ai_108881880

WASHINGTON DC -- According to freelance journalist Wayne Madsden, "George W Bush's blood lust, his repeated commitment to Christian beliefs and his constant references to 'evil doers,' in the eyes of many devout Catholic leaders, bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in the Book of Revelations--the anti-Christ."

Madsen, a Washington-based writer and columnist, who often writes for Counterpunch, says that people close to the pope claim that amid these concerns, the pontiff wishes he was younger and in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent the person prophesized in Revelations. John Paul II has always believed the world was on the precipice of the final confrontation between Good and Evil as foretold in the New Testament.

Before he became pope, Karol Cardinal Wojtyla said, "We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel versus the anti-Gospel."

more...
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. That article is a keeper!
:hi: Thanks.
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crossroads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
34. It's not just the Repuke Party we are up against... it's the Christian...
fundy belief system... No wonder they don't get concerned about Bush's mis-rule, lies and propaganda... Dear God, this *is* scary...
:scared:
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Geo55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. What we are up against
Jefferson saw it clearly....
History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

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