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evworldeditor Donating Member (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:24 PM
Original message
Bush Clinically "Nuts"
Sorry if this is a dupe. I didn't see any other references to this article in Washington Post.


"In the book, to be released Tuesday, Justin A. Frank, a clinical professor at George Washington University Medical Center, claims President Bush exhibits "sadistic tendencies" and suffers from "character pathology," including "grandiosity" and "megalomania" -- viewing himself, America and God as interchangeable. Frank told us yesterday that his opinions are based on publicly available materials, adding, "I've never met the president or any members of his family."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A30085-2004Jun10?language=printer
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is it really so wrong...

...to be a sadistic megalomaniac??
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. Not if yer doin it for Jesus!
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. And not if you're from Texas.
I understand those are all required character traits to be a good Republican Texan.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. he isn't from Texas.. & wasnt born there, just got out of Viet Nam there.
Edited on Sun Jun-13-04 10:24 PM by sam sarrha
and bought some there property so he could run for Governor..so he could be pRresident.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. Texas is out of control.
I don't believe that Bush could have gotten so out of hand in any other state. The corrupt G.O.P infra-structure was solidly in place, supported by arcane state laws, and nurtured the worst in him. We're only seeing now just how nutzoid those Texas G.O.Pers really are.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. As are his supporters ... based on publically available materials ...
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. HE NEEDS VIOLENCE TO OBTAIN AROUSAL
A little like Charles Daumer.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Houston?........We've gotta problem!!!!
No more small talk!!!

Time for action.
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. Some of us in Houston know we had problems long ago! n/t
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. I've been saying for months that I believe he is
a malignant narcissist (sociopathic personality disorder). He has a mean streak, feels no shame, feels no remorse, cannot admit guilt/fault or apologize, has over blown ego, self serving, devious, liar, will do ANYTHING to meet his objective because failure to do so would be like dying to him.

I swear I saw Laura sporting the remains of a black eye on a TV while she was making a speech at gawd knows where.


.............GET THE NET!.........................................
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #33
63. Read these DU threads from 2002 ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=18179&forum=DCForumID35&archive=
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=25450&forum=DCForumID35&archive=
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=18196&forum=DCForumID35&archive=


The Magistrate (4786 posts) Mar-24-02, 06:44 PM (ET)
34. Why Do They Do Those Things They Do?

This is an excellent topic for discussion. On any rational assessment of the prospects enjoyed by nine persons out of ten, in almost any polity, it is hard to escape the conclusion that psychological factors must condition any mass attachment to a rightist outlook. Serious consideration of this is a good step to advance beyond mere castigation of these people for being misled fools and malignant tools. That can never lead to forging political lines that can affect the enthusiasm of these people’s attachment to rightist views.

Projecting an authoritarian personality type is reminiscent of a common division of humans into those who place greatest value on upholding convention, and those who place greatest value on transgressing it. Both are necessities: things cannot function without being to some degree predictable, and cannot survive without a great degree of flexibility. Shared conventions define the social limits of human groups of all scales, from national states to families. Humans gain such benefits from adherence to some group that they must always be susceptible to placing great value on some collective entity beyond themselves, and willing to do what it takes to belong.

Rightist voting strength in the United States arises from three tendencies. First, a traditionalism of patriotic and religious stripe. Second, a gamble on free market beliefs by people who do not yet own property. Third, people who have calculated that what is good for the boss is good for them in the long run. Persons most moved by these tendencies, it seems to me, are well aware they vote against their immediate economic interest in most cases. Indeed, it is part of the behavior’s attraction for them, that they do so.

Patriotism, the civil religion of identity with one’s country, offers many a solace in their sorrows, by the feeling they are part of a great land; above, and envied, by all. Voting for a candidate who espouses patriotism, or rallying against a candidate who they can see is not a patriot, cements their identity with the national grandeur. For that pleasure, they are willing to pay; there is a positive value on sacrificing oneself for the nation, after all.

Religiosity, the politicization of traditional mores, offers many a panacea against the continual change afflicting their lives; they are sincere in their belief nothing would be wrong if things were like they think they used to be. Voting for a candidate who tells them they are right about that, gives them the momentary thrill of feeling they might actually be making how they think it used to be come true again. For that end, they are willing to pay any sacrifice, perhaps, even, bear any burden.

The largely property-less free-marketeer is in essence the patron at a casino. Voting for the candidate espousing free market principles is the price of admission. Most know, even, that most will fail of success in the game; still, each is sure those will all be other people who fail. The argument may be heard in its purest form from people who think they might win the Lotto, so they don’t want much tax on rich people.

People who calculate that what is good for the boss is good for them in the long run, are frankly confessing their dependence on the boss. Their vote becomes a tangible expression of loyalty, its casting a sort of “kickback,” like an old patronage worker buying tickets to the alderman’s ball. Identifying themselves with greater power makes them feel more secure, confident it will move mostly against other people in its abuses.

Most rightist voters will, as individuals, be moved by some mix of these most basic tendencies, but one or another will be predominant in most. A line based on educating them to their self interest does not seem promising, nor does a line based on increasing the payoff, so to speak, in benefits offered for voting left. These people ascribe a higher value to voting for a rightist candidate than their immediate economic self interest, even feel a thrill of virtue when they do so. They are willing to forego something for that, or simply will conclude that still the free market, or the boss, remains the surest bet in the long run.

It would be worth something to the left to contrive some line that would make the “anti-patriot” charge less easy for rightist politicos to sustain among the people. Patriotism in the United States has libertarian and revolutionist elements built into it that could just as easily be given a turn towards the left as to the right. Indeed, this was a leading feature of Depression Era radicalism in the United States, before the Cold War straight-jacket. Sullying the actual patriotism of rightist politicos does offer some promising lines of attack, to at least depress patriotic turnout to the polls.

By identifying rightists politicos with looted corporations and rigged markets, the attachment to them of largely property-less free-marketeers may be diminished. Left candidates who can display at least a familiarity with market workings, particularly by career, will be able to appeal to them, against a candidate sullied by the miasmic corruption of Enron. Nobody wants to go where the game’s crooked; town’s got to have a sheriff.

The boss will have to be clearly on the run before the people who figure what is good for the boss is good for them will re-think their allegiances, and so the thing will have to be done without regard for them. Similarly, the adherents to traditional mores, politicized to the enforcement of convention, must continue in hostile relation toward the transgressions of convention characteristic of some elements of the left, even though these contribute little to the changes which upset the traditionalists so. The great preponderance of that is due to the ordinary workings of free markets.

"An election differs from a civil war only as the bloodless surrender of a force outnumbered in the field differs from Waterloo."

"Political action is the art of getting people to think your thoughts, and think them their own as they do. It succeeds when the beholder’s response is, that’s just what I think! In electoral politics, the group whose political lines evoke the most such responses among the people wins."



TahitiNut (7058 posts) Mar-24-02, 07:32 PM (ET)
Reply to post #34
36. Yes, there's value in this discussion ...
... if only because it leads back to "first principles" and, additionally, may stimulate some introspection.

"Projecting an authoritarian personality type is reminiscent of a common division of humans into those who place greatest value on upholding convention, and those who place greatest value on transgressing it."

This is, I believe, mostly an issue of faith vs. fear. We either believe that truth will prevail and people are innately good, and learn from mistakes, or we believe that truth is weak and needs our help and that people are innately bad and must be kept from behaving harmfully. Such presumptions are not exclusively conservative vs. liberal. Many are those who call themselves "liberal" who would impose authoritarian dogma over the behavior of others, both prescribing and proscribing behavior, rather than relying upon first principles of justice and recourse to courts of law. (There's a fundamental difference between "laws" that regulate behavior and "laws" that offer an opportunity for dispute resolution and compensation for harm.)

"Patriotism, the civil religion of identity with one’s country, offers many a solace in their sorrows, by the feeling they are part of a great land; above, and envied, by all."

We often choose to affiliate ourselves with some label that confers upon us an enhanced prestige, as a shortcut to earning that prestige for ourselves ... often forgetting that the prestige in that label is derived from the contributions and investments made by others. This is a form of parasitology ... one that's encouraged by commercialism. Indeed, we've even become so socially codependent on such labels that we engage in hype and marketing to propagandistically create an illusion of prestige when the reality is insufficient to achieve it legitimately. How many people actually contribute to making Harvard a prestige school? How many merely feed upon that prestige? How many people actually contributed to making America a prestigious country? How many merely feed upon that prestige? The prototypical examples are plentiful, and include the Marines, Nike, Porsche, and various professional organizations. Most recently we've seen "FDNY" caps on every wannabe head ... feeding on the prestige of death.

Furthermore, we've even adopted an authoritarian approach to prestige parasitology. Who has not seen "leaders" enhance their own autocratic power by acting as the conferrer of "honors" and "recognitions"? The executive who confers "Employee of the Month" awards is elevated by every employee wishing to "earn" such recognition. Hitler reveled in making such awards. Gandhi never did. See the difference?

"Religiosity, the politicization of traditional mores, offers many a panacea against the continual change afflicting their lives"

Faith organizations have largely become a corruption of faith itself. Rather than nurture the development of spiritual growth in its members/students, religions are serving more to impose dogmatic behavioral templates over others. Evangelism has more in common with Imperialism than education. Most of those who think "Christ is the answer" (or "Allah is the answer") have evaded asking better questions (and avoid learning), and punish the heretics who have the temerity to do so. When an organization is populated with those who seek the paternalism and authoritarianism of autocrats, the autocrats will rise to positions of control. The only faith tradition I know of that has succumbed the least to this is Buddhism.

The secular religions of nationalism, commercialism, and politics have succumbed to the authoritarian/autocracy twinning as well. Even in these fora we hear the confusion of ends and means ... with the purported means of the Democratic Party's ascendancy being the articulated ends rather than the underlying socio-political principles.

"What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents." — Robert F. Kennedy (1964)
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. He certainly bears a striking resemblance to Ted Bundy...
Why they even share the same smirk.....

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Domitan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Not to mention the same eyebrows
If you look at Bush's younger pic, you'll see that. For example, check the May 31, 2004 People mag of Shrub holding the baby twins in his arm.
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Ewwww, I noticed he looked so, well, ummm
perv-like in his youth. Not unlike Bundy I guess. Yipes!
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devinsgram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #25
42. Yep, that fills the bill,
a serial killer that has been legalized. That certainly paints the picture I see.
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Ultima Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
45. Charles Daumer?
Maybe you mean Jeffrey Dahmer, the cannibal? Because "Charles Daumer" is nobody.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. Jeffrey Dahmer
Sorry I was half asleep when I wrote that

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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Jeffrey Dahmer
actually felt bad for how he was, though. He was suicidal at times and wished for death. He HATED the urges he felt to kill and do sick things to the bodies, but felt powerless to stop himself.

So he seemed to have a sense of right and wrong.

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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. He was disturbed.
How the jury found him responsible and not NGI is beyond me.
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is not Latest Breaking News!
I've known this for years! ;)
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. One can only wonder......why do people support him?
I guess it's true....they have character flaws.
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. The United States of Sadistic Megalomaniacs?
So that's why they call us traitors!
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. It is common for others to share the same psychotic ideals of this
madman..........Thats why Cultism has survived for centuries
and evidently still exists.
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. He has always
creeped me out!
:scared:
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teach1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. From HarperCollins.com
http://www.harpercollins.com/catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0060736704

Among the other subjects Frank explores:

Bush's false sense of omnipotence, instilled within him during childhood and emboldened by his deep investment in fundamentalist religion

The president's history of untreated alcohol abuse, and the questions it raises about denial, impairment, and the enabling streak in our culture

The growing anecdotal evidence that Bush may suffer from dyslexia, ADHD, and other thought disorders

His comfort living outside the law, defying international law in his presidency as boldly as he once defied DUI statutes and military reporting requirements

His love-hate relationship with his father, and how it triggered a complex and dangerous mix of feelings including yearning, rivalry, anger, and sadism

Bush's rigid and simplistic thought patterns, paranoia, and megalomania -- and how they have driven him to invent adversaries so that he can destroy them
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. It's a classic inferiority complex
except in his case, he really is a piece of shit!
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. sadism and grandiosity were no brainers
Karla Faye Tucker was a big clue. Giving the world freeeeeedom is grandiose. DUHHHHHHHH So I wonder if the patriots in Congress are just going to ignore this book or treat it the same way they treat the bills they vote for. By NOT reading it. Just let a madman run the country for another four years. No problem.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. .......Frog killer as a kid should have tipped someone off.
sicko.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I didn't know he was a frog killer? lol
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Killing animals is typical of socio-psychopaths.
Hmmm........
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Shoedogg Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Yep! A childhood friend of his is quoted
referring to the "horrible things" they did. It included blowing up live frogs with firecrackers.


Nice guy.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
54. this is in bushes: portrait of a dynasty
if you have the stomach to read it, provides some inside info on the whole bunch.
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Ultima Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #24
68. why one and not the other
So you'll believe a "childhood friend" who says something negative about Bush, but I assume you don't believe a National Guardsman who says that Bush indeed served his time with his unit? Interesting.
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PartyPooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. Maybe the author will send all of the Bu$h family members signed copies...
especially Poppy and Babs!

:evilgrin:
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Excellent Read!
I can't wait to get of copy of Dr. Justin Frank's book. Addiction Counseling is my field. <blush> I concur with him on the sadistic behavioral tendencies that are highly incongruent with Christian standards of good moral behavior.

One glaringly stark example of his demonstrated cruel sentiments was in 1999 when Governor George W. Bush mocked Karla Faye Tucker:

http://www.dangerouscitizen.com/Photo+Gallery/47.jpg

"`Please,' Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, `don't kill me.'" -Talk Magazine, Sept. 1999

From: "Devil May Care" by Tucker Carlson, Talk Magazine, September 1999, p. 106

"Bush's brand of forthright tough-guy populism can be appealing, and it has played well in Texas. Yet occasionally there are flashes of meanness visible beneath it.

Full Article:
http://www.dangerouscitizen.com/Photo+Gallery/568.aspx

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PartyPooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Hi ElectroPrincess, welcome to DU! I hope you post your thoughts
and opinions regarding the book after you've read it. Your professional experience and background should provide special insight for the rest of us.

Looking forward to seeing you around!

:hi:
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PartyPooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Here's another interesting article about Junior by a psychologist.
"George, how do you feel about your mom and dad?"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4745079-110878,00.html

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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #27
36. Excellent analysis
Thanks for posting this.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
16. dupe
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Dupe and
three days old
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PartyPooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. You're right. I read about this earlier & forgot...and, this post reminded
me to go out and buy the book!

:hi:
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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
22. Thanks for the post.....I hadn't read anything about it...
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aljones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
30. Wrong subject line..it should be the title of the article
Edited on Sun Jun-13-04 10:34 PM by aljones
Please be sure to use the correct subject line when posting in LBN. Also this article is not considered Latest Breaking News because the article is dated June 10, 2004. Please be aware that all articles posted in LBN must be dated within 24 hours of the current time.

aljones
DU Moderator
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
34. "Disturbed."
From the article:

... Frank, who has practiced for 35 years, told us he began noting Bush's mannerisms in the fall of 2002. "I was really very unsettled by him and I started watching everything he did and reading what he wrote, and watching him on videotape. I felt he was disturbed." In the book, he writes that Bush "fits the profile of a former drinker whose alcoholism has been arrested but not treated." ...


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donhakman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. He has a personality and medical disorder
First he has an arrested emotional development from drug use.
Secondly he has TIA's




......

I am glad someone else knows about his animal torture past.

I wrote a piece about this 2 years ago...

The big picture
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The big picture started small for the eldest son
He started with a magnifying glass and ants
fsst pop
Frogs and firecrackers BANG
Then he progressed to setting nests on fire
CHEEPCHEEPCHEEP
Then a cats tail
EEEeaaaaooow
A dog caught a dart in the ribs
OOOWOOwowo
You knew him in school and how he tortured kids
please don't please don't...

His anger was fierce and sudden.
No one thought it strange.
Everyone knew he's no boy scout.
They'd say boys will be boys.
Only the price of their toys change.

Promotion was never in doubt.
Despite being AWOL from the Air Force.
His finger's now on the button,
Life has gone full circle.
Its as if he's back to frying ants.

Many admire savagery
No one dares call it sadism.
We call it duty
and patriotism.

At Yale he renounced every boy scout pledge
to be trusted with the big picture.
No boy scout could do what's expected of a commander.
The big picture was about national security,
not the individual life, liberty or justice.
The power to ignore the constitution
and allow only business to decide.
The big picture made him a bigger man than he was.
The intoxicating power of the big picture
came with the wave of a fork at dinner to trigger a killing
a cool internalized thrill
to play by no rules
but your own in a company
that eats their own.
That eats nations and the earth.
The big picture goes beyond genocide
it goes beyond mile high glaciers
that will again one day cover NY.
It goes beyond right or wrong.
It is a proud elite dynasty
that snigger in secrecy
about their latest coup
or about their latest war
The worst kept secret
is how savagely
dumb they are.

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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. OK.......I looked up that interesting quote from your photo there
VERY entertaining

http://prisonplanet.tv/articles/april2004/042504bushseizure.htm

"At some time in the past, according to both and the President suffered what one of his aides called "a very minor seizure" and as a result of this, the President has a very difficult time following any unscripted conversations. For this reason, his staff carefully and aggressively protect the President from "unexpected" questions that he is not capable of answering."

"The President takes oral medication at least twice a day according to because of an unspecified "indisposition' and this subject is strictly off limits for any casual staff conversation."

"At one point during a staff conference, the President stood up and began to speak in an unknown language.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Mr. Rove was able to stop the President and get him to resume his seat. It was reported by that for a period of time (about fifteen minutes) after this incident, the President appeared to be 'somewhat confused and very inarticulate.'"

"White House staff members report that they rarely see the President during work hours and that when they do, he is generally accompanied by Mr. Rove and almost never either looks at or speaks to members of the staff. He does not appear to recognize many of the staff members and almost all contact with these individuals are carried out by his close aides, especially by Mr. Rove


too bad it's from prisonplanet.com/rense

I'd love to believe it, and NOTHING would surprise me about these creeps.

I have heard about him taking medicine before.....twice a day, as the story says

but if this is true.......can you imagine how completely inSANE things are behind the scenes?

"almost never looks or speaks to members of the staff?"

god, what a book that's going to make, after he's tossed out on his medicated ass

PLEASE, let it be true
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Ultima Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. You believe that?
Edited on Mon Jun-14-04 12:05 PM by Ultima
And you would somehow believe that that article from a radical left-wing site, which is not corroborated anywhere, is truthful? Come on. A site that refers to the Occult Elite, the Decadent Empire, and Nazi USA is not going to have the most reputable stories.

(edited for spelling)
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
37. The author is quoting DUers!
DU posters have been writing about W's sociopathology from the beginning. I have read very well-thought-out analyses of all the kinks in W's psyche, speech, and behavior. Professionals have chimed in, as have experienced 12-steppers. It's given me insight and has helped me give words to the profound creeps I get just watching him on tv.

Thank you, all you DUers. With this new book, maybe others will get the picture -- not any of the true believers, but hopefully some swing voters!

Hekate
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. this was gone into in GREAT detail and depth four years ago
at Salon Tabletalk

there were threads with THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of responses, and they pretty much came to the same conclusions reached here, and by the good doctor

it IS, after all, pretty obvious

his dysfunction isn't all that unusual, especially among politicians

the difference with him is that he also very likely suffers from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, over which he had no control, as well as SEVERELY frying his brain over a 25 year (at least) period with god knows what combination of dangerous chemicals/alcohol

I sure wish Dr. Hunter Thompson would weigh in with his own lengthy diagnosis....that would be extremely entertaining
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #37
64. Yup. See my post #63 above ... I bookmarked a couple of threads
... from 2002. (Man! We sure did have some GREAT discussion threads back then!)
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
41. it's obvious he's insane, it has been from the beginning
the assholes knew that when they put him in there. so now they reap the rewards. to bad we CAN'T remove an incompetent leader by law.
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PartyPooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
43. Kick!
:kick:
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malachibk Donating Member (780 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
46. Dumbest thing I've ever heard
A diagnosis based on speeches written by others, recollections of others and "mannerisms"?

Dangerous, dumb and an affront to the field of clinical psychology.

I'm not arguing that Bush isn't fucked up, but come on, guy.
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donhakman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. 18 years ago I was on TV and said
"It is evident to me that President Reagan has some sort of organic brain disorder..."
The panel poo pooed it and someone said "no one here has given him psychiatric tests, so conjecture is without merit."

I wasn't asked back.

This week W's dad said vehemently "President Reagan NEVER showed any signs of disease while he was President, NEVER."
I think he doth protest too much.

His son's condition is not improving. He can with the aid of technology repeat what is being said to him in groups of 5 to 6 words at a time.

Five or six words at a time! thats it. When he suddenly looms off into his own generated speech he does speed up but gets lost after a paragraph or two.



So here I go again... I am saying that George W Bush has an organic brain disease that goes much farther than dyslexia or occaisional aphasia.
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Ultima Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Oh really?
Edited on Mon Jun-14-04 06:40 PM by Ultima
"His son's condition is not improving. He can with the aid of technology repeat what is being said to him in groups of 5 to 6 words at a time.

Five or six words at a time! thats it. When he suddenly looms off into his own generated speech he does speed up but gets lost after a paragraph or two.

So here I go again... I am saying that George W Bush has an organic brain disease that goes much farther than dyslexia or occaisional aphasia."


And you know that... how? According to a "report" from some radical website?
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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #51
65. It is , unfortunately, only too obvious to anyone
who hears him utter anything unscripted.

BTW, are you just visiting?
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #65
67. OOooooo I think someone just
freeped up on us! ROFL!
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malachibk Donating Member (780 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. Big difference between "organic brain disorder" and "megalomania"
There are hard and fast physical symptoms of Alzheimer's and other BDs that would be evident from mannerisms, speech patters, gaze etc.

"Megalomania" and most other symptoms of whichever DSM diagnosis this author wants to attach to bush don't manifest themselves in tics, slurs, pauses, fugues etc. and so shouldn't be diagnosed from afar.

I don't doubt your early Reagan diagnosis at all. I DO doubt the validity of a diagnosis cobbled together from news coverage and speeches. I can't imagine he intervewied ANYONE close to the pResident!! (Could you imagine making that request?)
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. People are executed on that basis
In Texas, people convicted of a capital crime can be sentenced to execution if, and ONLY IF, the jury finds that the convicted will probably present a danger in the future. The evidence of such a probability can be as simple as the testimony of a psychiatrist who has NEVER met the convicted party.

Dangerous, dumb and an affront to the field of clinical psychology.

Actually, it's a psychiatric specialty aka "forensic psychiatry". There is also another practice known as "psychological autopsy" which is "performed" on suicide victims. As you migh have guessed, the psychiatrists who try to determine why someone committed suicide do not get to meet the victim.
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malachibk Donating Member (780 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. I know all about "psychological autopsies", thanks
and so far as I know, bush isn't dead yet. And the article suggests the author relied on "public records" and not on detailed interviewing of friends, family, etc that researchers conducting psychological autopsies employ.

And using Texas as an example to support your argument undercuts anything you say!! (kidding, but not kidding at the same time)
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wadestock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
49. What scared me the most about W....
Is when he said "we will rewrite the history books"....concerning the war in Iraq.
I've been unable to find the exact origin of this statement...however he's said it a few times on TV in the context of the war.

But the first time I heard it was when he was being REALLY pressured about a year ago following no WMD and various other calamities....and the way I translated it at the time was "screw what you think, screw what the world thinks, I'M GOING to rewrite the history books.

The right wing Reagan-nit-wits found a wonderful front man with W didn't they.

You should also be careful to note that there are quite a few loyal supporters of W and the war that fall into this category and who fervently believe that the problem comes down to exactly how do you kill ALL of "them".
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
56. I've been saying that for years ... "He's clinical" alright.
:(
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
57. The Madness of King George
21st Century version

:scared:


(And they have the nerve to imply GORE is crazy?!?)
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Suspicious Donating Member (780 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
58. Gore Vidal
made an interesting observation with regard to Bush during his interview with Amy Goodman, of Democracy Now, on June 4, 2004:

..."I'm the Commander In Chief, you know of this whole thing. I'm running it. Then I'm going to send troops to -- you get the first person? I am going to. I spent three years in World War II. I never heard President Roosevelt say -- "I'm going to send troops to China. And I will then send them to Southeast Asia." President Roosevelt never said “I.” We. We are the United States. We will do this. All together with our allies. We will do this. So, it's "I." I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. How a fool like this can be tolerated in a country whose median I.Q. cannot be much lower than that of Inner Slovenia, that they allow him to say ridiculous things and get away with it."

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/04/1353259

It's a great interview, if you missed it.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
60. Did Bush Try To Commit Suicide In 1986?
Here's another article by a mental health professional, appearing in the Guardian, attempting to psychoanalyze Mr. Bush. Bush apparently had suicidal tendencies, before of course finding God:

"...As the alcoholic George Bush approached his 40th birthday in 1986, he had achieved nothing he could call his own. He was all too aware that none of his educational and professional accomplishments would have occured without his father. He felt so low that he did not care if he lived or died. Taking a friend out for a flight in a Cessna aeroplane, it only became apparent he had not flown one before when they nearly crashed on take-off. Narrowly avoiding stalling a few times, they crash-landed and the friend breathed a sigh of relief - only for Bush to rev up the engine and take off again..."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1033904,00.html
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priller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. I've read the original airplane story
It's actually told by Don Evans, one of Bush's closest friends and currently a bigwig in the administration. What Evans really said was that Bush tried to fly the Cessna (which he obviously had never done before) like the trainer jet he learned to fly in the Guard. When the plane took off he jerked it up quickly like a jet and almost stalled out.

And they didn't crash land, they just had a rough landing. It's true that Bush wanted to go up again, but Evans said no way.

I don't think that episode amounts to suicidal tendencies as much as it does sheer stupidity on the part of Bush. You can almost hear Bush say, "Hell, I flew jets! I can surely fly this rinky-dink little prop plane!"

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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #61
66. If not suicidal, it does show a reckless side to his nature
Add to that the excessive drinking that forced his wife to give him an ultimatum and his reckless business ventures including a brush with potential criminal charges of insider trading (which could have damaged his father's reputation and political career) and you have the image of a disturbed man, not just a stupid one.
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Ultima Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #66
69. reckless, huh?
So Bush is reckless and therefore unfit to be President? Well, according to the circumstances in which Kerry earned his Silver Star, he acted very recklessly (including committing a war crime, by using .50-cal rounds against a human). Does that make him unfit to be President, too?

And yes, .50-cal weapons, when used for anti-personnel purposes, are banned under the Geneva Convention. Stupid, yes, but it's a rule.
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Ultima Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. some more about war crimes
Actually, combatants who do not wear uniforms or other clear identification of their combat status are not protected under the Geneva convention (this applies to pretty much all of the Iraqi resistance) and they can be summarily executed without a trial. In addition, storing war materiel in schools, hospitals, or places of worship is also considered to be a war crime (and so is shooting out of such building, of course), and the destruction or attack of those places to remove said materiel/enemies is not a war crime.

As someone else put it, "if we do either of those things , guess who will be the target of raving denunciation by such groups as Human Rights Watch ?"
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
62. People who think that God talks to them are generally insane
Bush is no exception
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