Fahrenheit 9/11 censorship: Teens banned from Moore film

[the Kelly Gang]

Teens banned from Moore film
From correspondents in New York
June 14, 2004

"THE US film ratings board has ruled Michael Moore's controversial Fahrenheit 9/11 film cannot be viewed by people under 17 unless they are accompanied by an adult, sparking an immediate appeal from the distributors.

The explosive documentary, which won the top prize at this year's Cannes Film Festival, denounces the White House's handling of its "war on terror" and the war on Iraq.
The Motion Picture Association of America today said it had given the movie an adult rating because it contained "violent and disturbing images" and strong language.

The film's distributor, Lions Gate Films, immediately filed an emergency appeal to have the rating reviewed. Lions Gate chairman Tom Ortenberg said in a statement the ratings board's decision was "completely unjustified"."

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9846681%255E1702,00.html

[Vickers]

1. That's right, let's keep it in the headlines

:thumbsup:

Free publicity!

[Guaranteed]

7. You mean the violence and disturbing images, right?

:P

Kids see this stuff in the papers every day.

Nick Berg. Need I say more?

[Massacure]

2. People under 17 can't vote anyways

From my parents point of view, I don't think they would want their 14 or 15 year old kid walking into a theatre and seeing men torture other men.

I don't see how this decision is going to turn around. Maybe I'm just pessimistic.

[Vickers]

6. Almost 50% of 17-year-olds will turn 18 before election day

:shrug:

Something to consider.

[Massacure]

10. 17 can still see it can't they? I thought it is under 17, not including.

cannot be viewed by people under 17 unless they are accompanied by an adult

Oh well. I hope they reverse the decision, but if it doesn't happen, there is nothing you can really do.

[absolutezero]

55. once you hit 17 you can watch whatever you want

i tell you this as a theater manager

but i might forget to tell my employees to card everyone for this film, and accidentally give it a NR(not rated) in the computer

[Az]

14. The battle isn't for votes, its for minds

This is the mistake the Dems are making. We keep fighting for votes when the real battle is for minds.

You don't think kids under 18 have an impact on society? Take a look at the primary marketting target of the advertisers. Those kids are a primary mover of our economy. That combined with the fact that they will be tomorrows voters.

You want to have more people voting Democratic then you have to make more people think Democratic. We are going to slide into oblivion chasing votes. We have to make them chase us.

[Ishoutandscream]

28. Exactly.

And these so called "disturbing images," weren't they all over television? Maybe the evening news should get an "R" rating.

[checks-n-balances]

30. I totally agree. The RW wants to play head games & not let our younger

generation know the truth about Bushco and/or the rethugs. They're hoping they won't see the movie, then grow up believing all the BS they'll be hearing from an even more dominated media.

Just like they want RWR's name or image on everything, they want to censor this movie any way they can. It's about not just mind control but ultimately, LOYALTY CONTROL.

That sounds paranoid maybe, but those who warned about crazy things in the past are proving now to be right.

Anyway, I disagree strongly with the move. It has no more to do with disturbing images than RW opposition to Howard Stern.

It's the freedom of information, stupid!

[ClassWarrior]

43. Excellent point AZ

See my post here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1786631

[Bandit]

46. They don't mind you watching the News though now do they?

This is stuff right off the news shows along with some interviews with people actually on the ground in Iraq. I also doubt there is any torture scenes in the movie except listening to Bush*. That is indeed torture IMHO.

[SlingBlade]

3. Fucking Nazis

They will not stop, Moore has had to fight these bastards from day one, They are the epitome of American Fascist.

[sniffa]

4. under 17 = can't vote

so who cares? if they reaLLy want to see the movie they'LL get in.

[rpannier]

19. Don't bet on it...

The freak-repubs will probably call in threatening to turn in any theater that violates the law. They'll probably pay people to sit outside the theaters and watch who gets in.

[LifeDuringWartime]

56. im fairly certain that movie ratings are not laws

it is a policy of the MPAA, a group of large movie production houses and distributors.

a movie doesn't even have to be rated. getting a film rated is optional, but most places wont show unrated films because of possible parental outcry, etc

[Q]

5. This is the same 'violence and disturbing' images they show on TV...

...every single night on the 'news'. This ruling is a PARTISAN joke.

[neoteric lefty]

8. I guess a lot of you never snuck into a 'R' movie as a kid

This really doesn't matter. It is free publicity and if any kid wants to see this movie, then I am sure that they can work around the system. These people aren't the secret service, they are movie ushers (just think of the pimply kid on the Simpsons)... they don't care.

Kids... this is your enemy :)

[sybylla]

18. Not true any more

My 17-year-old gets carded quite frequently on R rated movies at my local theater chain - the same theater I used to get into R rated movies all the time 25 years ago. Now its not any different than trying to by cigs or booze.

[bloom]

51. at theatres around here

they don't pay any attention to which theatre you go in, once you pay.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

52. My mega multi-plex corporate theater...

Takes your ticket at the entrance to a hallway containing a gazillion screens. The guy doesn't even look at it -- plus you can simply buy a ticket to a PG-13 movie then go wherever the hell you want.

But chances are this will be playing at your local independent theater, and the owners there take a dim view towards censorship, so I don't think this is going to slow down Moore one bit.

But, hey, thanks for the free publicity!

[bloom]

54. the "mega multi-plex corporate theaters' are showing it

(our local one is showing it starting June 25th)

there is a thread started to encourage people to thank them because of the counter-group trying to get them to NOT show it.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1786631&mesg_id=1786631

[bluestateguy]

9. Sounds like Karl Rove made a few phone calls

That can have the effect of scaring theaters from showing the movie.

You see, when your side controls the machinery of government you still have a lot of weapons at your disposal when things don't go your way.

[tom_paine]

13. I agree. The Imperial Family is pulling out all stops short of murder

They might yet resort to that, though it is unlikely given the situation.

They also know that if they start murdering people like Moore, then (COMMENT REDACTED BY ORDER OF OHS).

[Simeon Salus]

11. Nothing makes teenagers turn out to see a movie...

...like an adult saying: "you cannot go to that movie."

The more repukes try to repress information, the more information begs for light of day.

[LizW]

21. Exactly

Tell teenagers they can't see it and they will flock to it.

[noonwitch]

12. So, is it rated R or NC-17?

If my memory is correct, once I hit 14 no one ever asked me if I was old enough to get into an R movie. But, technically, they are supposed to ensure that anyone under 17 is accompanied by an adult to see it.

NC-17 means no one under 17 is admitted under any circumstances. My guess is that the issue is whether to rate it R or PG-13, not to consider an NC-17 rating. Not many movies get that highest rating-usually they involve kinky or gay sex ("Henry and June" comes to mind). A PG-13 rating is more marketable.

[DaveSZ]

17. Well

17 year olds can still go see it, so all is not lost.

16 year olds would be too young to vote anyways.

The Passion was rated R and people still brought their children.

[OKNancy]

34. R

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/3804427.stm

[anarchy1999]

15. What rating did they give "THE PASSION"? How many kids went

with their church groups and had to sit through 45 minutes of graphic violence? WHAT THE Hell is going on in this country? You've got to be kidding me. What else are "they" going to try and pull to keep this film from getting out to the people of this country? As Michael Moore said at Cannes, everyone in the world will get to see this film, except the US, thank you for what you have done, maybe it will help, paraphrasing what he said.

[Kid_A]

38. "The Passion" got an R.

Which means that NC-17 will never be given to a movie for violence alone. And I don't see what the big deal is with F-9/11 getting an R rating. A month ago we were worried that the film wouldn't come out at all, and now we're complaining about the rating? "Bowling for Columbine" was rated R, but that didn't stop it from making a ton of money, ruffling a ton of feathers, and winning an Oscar, did it?

[progressivebydesign]

58. Hmmm.. many of my daughter's 12 year old friends saw The Passion.

In the movie theatres..

[Kid_A]

62. But "The Passion" was an "important film"

about how Jesus died for their sins, therefore everyone should have seen it, regardless of the rating. But F911 is a film that dares to criticize Our Great Leader, so no one should be able to see it.

[w4rma]

63. And only about "how", but not "why" or anything about His message. (nt)

[LittleApple81]

16. My son just turned 18; he has been going to ALL types of movies

for a long time. Unless Rove send the thought police to stand in front of the theater or threatens the theaters with action if they allow teenagers in the theater they cannot keep kids that are 16 and over out of the theater.
And don't forget the enticement of the forbidden fruit...

[flobee1kenobi]

20. so have the parents go with the kids

why not take the parents along too!
the more people that see this movie, the better

[THUNDER HANDS]

29. you can't

NC-17 means NOBODY under 17 gets in.

[OKNancy]

36. It's not rated NC-17 however

it is rated "R"

[lanparty]

67. Still worth the lawsuit!!!!

Honestly, I don't think many 15 year olds would be interested in this movie. But kids ARE being fed propoganda. F 9/11 is counter-propoganda!!!!

[newyawker99]

37. Hi flobee1kenobi!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Kinkistyle]

22. Well ya gotta admit, the Bush admin IS "violent and disturbing".

I mean, Moore is exposing Bush and Co. for all their evil and violent ways so it might just be unsuitable for young viewers. Maybe he should make a PG-13 version.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

23. The DVD is scheduled out in October I do believe. teens have low attention

spans anyway. The rentals of the movie will be crucial. I'm not worried about the rating.

[LTR]

24. I don't think the rating is part of a conspiracy.

An 'R' rating means that one must be 17 or older to see it, or in the presence of an adult.

If the film received an 'R' rating, it must mean that there is some shocking material in it - moreso than what you'd see on the news channels. Such material must be powerful or disturbing enough to get some kind of reaction. Or one would hope.

I haven't seen it yet, but I plan on it.

Besides, I think this film will likely target a slightly older crowd. Qute a few high schoolers may want to see it, but most likely they will opt for something else. Fahrenheit 9/11 does not strike me as a 'date' movie, or something a 16-year old will want to see with his pals.

And if they do want to see it, I'm sure at least one of them has a Bush-loathing parent that will chaperone the gang.

[Q]

26. It's not a conspiracy...it's influence peddling...

...and unfair advantage by partisan hacks.

- This won't hurt sales to any significant degree because a great share of the profits are seen in DVD and Video sales after the fact. This film is going to make a LOT of money.

[LTR]

32. If teens under 17 want to see this film bad enough...

...they will.

Seems like an 'R' rating tends to draw teens in more.

This could work to the film's advantage.

[LiberalCat]

25. This will make it more enticing to teens.

Teens want to see what is banned to them. They can have their 18-year-old friends take them.

[displacedtexan]

27. And all of us teenagers in 1969 sneaked in to "Midnight Cowboy"...

simply because it was rated X!

This couldn't be better news, IMHO! Make it taboo, and kids who would normally ignore such films will make a game out of getting in.

[drscm]

31. The "beautiful mind" comment by *Bush's mommie is pornographic

enough.

Isn't it ironic that a movie about a Repug pResident's behavior (or the consequences of his behavior) is deemed unfit for "family" viewing. I thought these folks were supposed to be the "family values" people.

What are we going to tell the children?

[John_H]

33. Relax. This is all part of the PR campaign.

The "immediate appeal"--AND MAYBE EVEN THE RULING-is part of the brilliant PR campaign Moore has been running. More headlines. More energizing of our voters. He can always ask them which scenes to delete--a soldier saying fuck probably, or some graphic photos (either of which would deserve an R rating anyway) and get it down to PG13.

Besides, how many R movies did you miss at 17 because you got carded?

[name not needed]

35. Fuck em

I'll get in anyways. They make rules like this, thinking nobody will get around it. But they don't think like I do. Now I'm probably going to see it numerous times just to piss of the sons of bitches.

[in_cog_ni_to]

39. What a crock of shit.

They will throw whatever roadblock they can at this film to stop people from seeing it, but it's NOT going to work. My 11 year old son WILL see this film. He WILL know the lies this administration told. He WILL see the death and destruction those lies have caused. He WILL know WHY his mom and dad are PROUD Democrats and Fahrenheit 911 will SHOW him exactly why. He will see WHY we are anti-war. He will see WHY lies are bad. He will see the perils of war and WHY PEACE is ALWAYS a better option. No matter what the RWers do to try to stop people from knowing the TRUTH.....it won't work. If a teenager wants to see this film, they will and any parent who thinks it's important enough to see, will accompany their teenager to the theater. Man, I hate these fascist assholes! :nuke:

[Cheswick2.0]

40. this is great

That means that more kids will go to see it. :7

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. hehe

I remember when "I" was a teenager...a looooooooooooooooooong time ago. If you told me I couldn't....it meant I could! :evilgrin:

[porphyrian]

42. So? Take a group of teens to the movie.

Is there a rule as to how many underage kids a single adult can take to a movie? If it ever opens here, I'll gladly buy tickets for any kid that wants to go with me.

[yolatengo]

44. back in '77

I went to see "Saturday Night Fever" at age 11. They wouldn't let
my friend and I into the theatre. As we stood outside dejected,
a middle-aged woman walked up and asked if we wanted to see
the flick. We said yes and she posed as our 'auntie' at the ticket
booth. We got in and saw all the luscious ta-tas and woo-woos
and Vinnie Barberin--, er Tony Manero's hair.

Think how tame that flick is by today's standards. Call me old-
fashioned, but I think "R" might be appropriate. I wouldn't want
Moore to cut the flick to get PG-13, I want Maximum Impact. There
is some violence and harsh subject matter...do you want a 9-yr
old to see it? 13?

I snuck into see "The Outlaw Josey Wales" in when I was about 10.
It freaked me OUT, especially the Sondra Locke rape scene and the
scene where Wales' family is murdered. I really don't think 9 and
10 yr olds MUST to see The Passion nor Fahrenheit 9/11 no matter
HOW important the subject matter is...FOR ADULTS. 17 yr olds can
see it with their parents (who can explain some things to them). Hell,
many theatres let (too many) kids younger than 17 into R flicks
ALL THE TIME. I'd be perfectly happy waiting for the DVD (in
Oct?) and watching it at home with kids so it can be thoroughly
dissected.

I just don't think we should get hung up on the rating. I haven't
seen it, but if they show dead Iraqis and horribly wounded GIs,
I think that's tough stuff for teens no matter HOW 'mature' we think
they are today.

Bigby

[Sabriel]

45. They NEED to see it

Maybe if more teens saw "dead Iraqis and horribly wounded GIs," we wouldn't be doing what we're doing in the first place.

This idea comes up a lot when "controversial" subjects appear in children's literature, because some people feel children should be protected from ideas like homosexuality, oppression, child abuse, war, poverty, etc. Maybe if more children were aware of those issues from a young age, they might work actively for social justice when they became adults.
Sabriel

[AP]

47. Jeez. Quite a commentary on American politics. Not suitable for children.

I thought the Republicans whole deal was that they made society safe for the kids. It looks like they've created a world which children can't look at without being accompanied by a parent.

[progressivebydesign]

59. You should SEE what passes for PG13!!!

I am amazed at what is allowed for PG13 now. The rating board is being political, totally political.

[democracy eh]

48. When you tell a youth the can't see/do/go/watch/smoke/consume somthin

doesn't that just make them want to do it more?
anybody heard of alcohol, cancer sticks, 2 Live Crew?

The movie THEY don't want you to see.

so there is the added thrill of defying authority by watching a film about defying authority. heh heh

Bushco, BTW the more you squirm the more this is going to hurt.

[Cocoa]

49. maybe there's nudity

Moore might have some Abu Ghraib footage.

[Cat Atomic]

50. An "R" is better marketing anyway, IMHO.

We're talking about a documentary, after all. Many people assume documentaries are boring, but an R rating could actually attract curiosity. Especially if there's some stink around the rating itself.

I know that's how it goes with video games, at least. I did some package design for a video game not so long ago, and the subject of Lieberman's insipid rating system came up. What I heard was that developers will often actively pursue the M rating, simply because it's become a stamp that says, "this is not a boring, kid's game". It's more of sell than a warning. Go figure.

[ElementaryPenguin]

53. But they can show Hussein's dead sons bloated faces on every cover!

Fucking bullshit! Helps publicity! NOW kids will WANT to see it! Can't vote at 17 anyway!

[TryingToWarnYou]

57. Pay my way and Ill escort all the under 17 folks I can...

NT

[progressivebydesign]

60. Let's take a page from the religious right!!!

Perhaps we can rent the theatres to show the film ourselves, just as the religious right did to get around the ratings.

[Renew Deal]

61. kick

:kick:

[MarkTwain]

64. Be careful what you wish for, Mr. Rove....

... if a kid wants to get in and needs a parent to do so, you've just mandated that an eligible VOTER be brought to that movie to accompnay the "child"!

[lanparty]

65. BULLSHIT!!!!

Does this mean it gets the passe R-rating, or the dreaded NC-17 rating????

The R Rating may be appropriate. But NC-17 is an outrage!!!!

[genius]

66. Same rating as "Lethal Weapon" series. Lots of kids were there.

I bet they'll be checking for this one.

[lanparty]

68. The most hunted film since CITIZEN CANE!!!!

This is a LOT like the war waged by Hearst against 'Citizen Cane'. He tried everything he could to get EVERY COPY of the film destroyed. He nearly bought the film, except he went broke.

Orson Welles made the best film ever his first time out. And he never recovered from the experience!!!!

[pacifictiger]

69. Its always more appealing for teens

to tell them they can't do something. Perhaps more will watch because of the rating.