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Magical Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 08:46 AM
Original message
The Dirty Little Secret....Energy
The US is 5% of the world's population using 30% of the world's energy AND similar percentages of other non-renewable resources. If we 'westernize' the rest of the world we would need 5 earths to support the consumption. Imagine the energy needs of hundreds of millions of Chinese getting automobiles.

Oil DISCOVERY peaked in the 1970's, extraction is peaking now or in the near future. The 'War on Terrorism' is clearly a ruse to take over the world's oil supplies. Iran, Iraq, and SA contain about 30% of the world's known reserves. Notice the friction also with Venezuela, which exports over a million barrels a day to the US.

Our lifesytle is clearly unstainable. We must change NOW while we still have fossil fuels to make the transition.

Top inventions needed...IMO
Electrical Storage...This is the ONLY thing missing from practical electric cars and 24 hour use of solar and wind. Some progress has been made in the form of super capacitors rivalling the energy storage of batteries, but having quick recharge time and many more cycles. Electricity is the 'highest form' of energy...directly useable by motors with efficiency in excess of 90% with zero emissions. This should be the number ONE research priority in the US. See article...
http://www.ept.ca/docs/index.php?PageName=article&ArticleID=19974&Show...

High Temperature Super-Conductor
This would allow solar power plants to be located in the southwest and wind power to be put in the windiest areas and supply electricity to the whole country. Solar-electric generators with about 30% efficiency have been demonstrated using parabolic reflectors and stirling engines. Also, high-temp superconductors would open up other possibilities in electrical storage in the form of huge coils.

Solar Stirling Design
http://www.stirlingengines.org.uk/sun/sola3.html

Electricity can be 'transported' much more cheaply than any type of fuel. Think of a wall plug in place of a gas pump.

Its ALL about oil, cheap energy, and the petro-dollar. We are attempting to corner the earth's remaining energy resources.
TOP issues of the 21st century...Energy and Environment. NOTHING else matters. Its survival now. Very profound choices we are facing.

Magical
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hybrid doesn't necessarily have to mean gasoline.
Who says hybrids must use gasoline engines? Sure, that's how they're set up now, but I can see such systems being used with just about anything as fuel. You need some kind of generator to make the power, some means of storing it on the fly, and motors to use it.

I see the next generation of hybrids as primarily electric vehicles, with the gas engine being used mainly to replenish the batteries as required. It could even run the gas engine to do the recharge while the car is parked, and shut off automatically when finished. Wouldn't that be something?
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Aside from the future of fuel cells and such...
right now Volvo makes a nice little diesel for sailboats and generators, as do a number of other manufacturers. Diesels aren't the ultimate answer, but they are more efficient than gasoline engines, and can run on all sorts of oils and greases.
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DenverDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. Great point.
If we had heeded the prescient call of President Jimmy Carter in the 70's and invested in the research to solve the above mentioned problems, we would be in much better shape now. But, true to form, America was too cowardly and lazy to face the truth, so we sank into the willful ignorance of the raygun years and allowed the world to be taken over by the petrocons who have led us to the precipice of destruction.
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Village Idiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. They are still doing so...
The "Big 3" automakers seem to be buying into alterfnative energy in a big way - they already own more than 25% of Ballard Power (fuel cell development) and others...I would hope that they believe it is in their best interest to research and develop alternative energy technologies, but I may be a bit naive...
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. It wouldn't help with electric cars, but for solar generated power,
Edited on Mon Jun-14-04 09:13 AM by SimpleTrend
one big obstacle is how to store the electricity for use during the night. Guess what? There's another continent that has light when yours is in darkness. So, I propose the following solution.

A UN directed effort to build an electricity super backbone that connects the continents. One could think of a few huge wires completely encircling the globe. It's similar in concept to a grid-tie solar system, but on a much larger scale. This could allow countries who generate solar electricity to send their excess during their daylight to continents in darkness. It would require that countries design solar electric systems of a generating capacity far in excess of domestic needs, but with the backbone and excess capacity, each continent in daylight could supply the electricity for the rest of the world.

It would require a huge inter-country cooperate effort, hence my suggestion of the involvement of the UN.

On edit:
Parabolic troughs often use single-axis or dual-axis tracking. In rare instances, they may be stationary. Temperatures at the receiver can reach 400 °C and produce steam for generating electricity. In California, multi-megawatt power plants were built using parabolic troughs combined with gas turbines.
http://www.canren.gc.ca/tech_appl/index.asp?CaID=5&PgID=282
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Transmission loss...
is the big problem. There are other methods of storage, such as indirect storage by storing heat or pumped water.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
4. Haven't seen Stirling...
engines talked about lately. Great gadgets, with a higher theoretical efficiency than internal combustion. Can't use them in cars because you can't get proper speed control, but could be used in hybrids. there may be a maximum size, though, and make them inefficient for large scale power production.

Electricity production is the key, and small diesels or steam engines in hybrid cars, fuel cells, geothermal, solar collectors and steam, tides, wind... Even getting away from mega powerplants and back to local production like we had years ago.

Some experts I know are talking nuclear again as the most efficient.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. James Lovelace (of Gaia hypothesis fame)
is now advocating nuclear; basically he says we waited too long to get better alternatives on line & now may have no choice.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks!!!.......We need to re-energize our homes as well.
But from so much cloud cover from Global warming,
Will Solar not be a option at all?
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gpandas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. good post, but i have found...
that americans have little interest in these facts. many americans i talk to feel it is okay to consume so much of the worlds resources. they think we deserve it, i guess, because we are "the city on a hill". most americans say this is a Christian nation, but where is the Christianity in hogging everything in sight? where is the Christianity in killing other people so we have gas to ride to the convenient store for a pack of cigarettes and some candy bars? how can anyone claim to be a christian and participate in this orgy of consumption? i don't know about other countries, but in the usa greed and self aggrandizement rule. we supposedly worship a man who said "lay not treasures upon the earth...", but even in some of the poorest homes the treasures are on display, and we worship the rich man as the standard of achievement. the savior of mankind says to pray in a closet where you will be seen and heard by God, and americans pray on television, where they are seen and heard by man. the hypocrisy of americans is unbridled as they claim piety and practice excess. sorry for the rant, but i get assed up by a bunch of people who wear Christianity as a sort of righteous badge, and are no more Christian than i, and i am an atheist.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. Electrical storage...
Actually, if you think about it, H2 is a means of storing electricity, since you can break H2O with electricity & store the resultant hydrogen. When you combust it or run it in a fuel cell, your only byproduct is water--no CO2. I think H2 technology holds a lot of the answers to current problems, particularly in a fuel cell context.

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Magical Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. The Hydrogen Economy
I found 'The Phoenix Project' to be an interesting read regarding the solar-stirling hydrogen economy. Hydrogen does have potential, but the overall system efficiency and feasibility is quite low IMO when factoring in:

The longevity, weight, complexity and cost of fuel cells
The construction of a hydrogen infrastructure. (massive investment)
High pressure storage tank requirements.
Boiling off of hydrogen even in stored tanks.
Electricity to hydrogen to fuel cell to electric motor efficiency.

A light-weight, quick recharge, long-life 'battery' is THE energy device needed. I consider it to be the equivalent of the 'semiconductor' for the 20th century. If the 20th century was the age of semiconductors and computers, the 21st century will be the age of the superconductor and 'battery equivalent', perhaps 'ultracapacitor.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Hydrogen can be safely stored in...
hydrite (or is it hydrate? or calcite?)a chalky mineral that can hold quite a bit of it under very low pressure. You pump it in to the tank full of this stuff wiht only 10-20 pounds of pressure, and heat is created. To release the elemental hydrogen, apply heat and it's released. Between these states, there is almost no pressure.

Mercedes built a hydrogen bus back in the '80s using tanks like these, a bigass flywheel, regenerative braking and everything else they could think of. It actually worked.

Aside from it's flimsy nature and difficulty in working with it, the biggest problem burning hydrogen is its low energy density. You need a LOT of hydrogen. Those carbon atoms in hydrocarbons add a lot more kick than one would think.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
10. well put
"Energy and Environment. NOTHING else matters." All of our political concerns are moot if these concerns are not properly handled.
Hoping for breakthroughs is well and good but the best tool is now at our disposal: conservation. Yes, our so-called lifestyle will suffer but we don't really need a lot of this crap anyway.
(bindpig dons tinfoil hat)
Then there is the perennial question of what useful or even breakthrough technologies are buried in corporate vaults in order to preserve profits and societal control.
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