I want President Kerry to GET US OUT of Iraq

[mopaul]

and if he doesn't, post haste, then i'll be very dissapointed. i am voting for him, no question about that, but he better damn well end this war. and i'm not talking about sending more troops, i'm talking about RETREAT. cut and run, admit defeat, end it.

[Political_Junkie]

1. agreed,

enough is enough.

[bluestateguy]

2. It's a complicated situation over there

It will always be Bush's war. I don't care if we're still there under President Kerry three years from now. It's Bush's war.

[Seabiscuit]

3. Get the hell out of Iraq!

But first repair international relations, and bring in the U.N., Nato, and Arabic countries to help Iraq find freedom for the first time in a century. During that process, get rid of *all* American presence, including our military, and all "contractors" that Cheney awarded with our tax dollars on a no-bid-basis.

That would bury the Bush legacy and relegate his neo-con agenda to the scrap-heap of history.

[mopaul]

4. throw out ALL of bush's crew, and everything bush

and show the world that we want to remake our nation and repair the damage from reagan/bush/bush

[Kanary]

34. To do that, he'd have to be willing to fight the corporations

You *really* think he's gonna do that?

I mean, if you do, I certainly hope you're right.

But, I'm just not that optomistic about .........

sigh.......

Kanary

[Seabiscuit]

44. You're right -

And I think the jury's still out on whether Kerry has the spine to do what's necessary - take on the corporations.

But think Dean... think Edwards. THEY have the guts.

While Edwards is my only choice for VP, in part because he could provide some backbone to Kerry, because he's experienced as a lawyer taking on the corporations, Dean is out there with his followers working on local elections to get Dems with spine elected locally and to Congress. He's even inspired people who never engaged in politics prior to supporting his campaign to begin their own campaigns for local offices.

So yes, I believe hope is still alive. Kerry's just one piece of the entire puzzle. A big piece, but a piece nonetheless.

[dutchdemocrat]

32. NATO

NATO is America's grip on Europe. The French Defense minister said on Sunday what many European's feel... it's time to form our own military and take care of our own security. NATO is unnecessary... a remnant from the coldwar and it time to throw it out.

Bush begged for NATO to intervene at the G8 - did he really think Europeans are going to send their children to fight under, what is, essentially American command?

No way. I expect most European countries will pull out come end of the month including the Dutch forces.

It should be a UN force operating under the Geneva Convention with peacekeepers from all nations.

That is the only thing that would help pacify the situation in my opinion.

[calimary]

24. What we have to make SURE we do is ALWAYS ALWAYS refer to it that way.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS. Rub it in, again and again and again and again and again. NEVER LET UP. NEVER GIVE AN INCH. Repetition, repetition, repetition. Otherwise, when Kerry takes over, and the war drags on, or it takes him some time to disengage (because we're gonna be ON HIS ASS to MAKE him do it, no?), it must NOT be transmogrified by the Bad Guys into his war to let bush off the hook. bush MUST REMAIN ON - repeat - ON THE HOOK about it. FOREVER.

[Walt Starr]

28. If no serious move is made during the first 100 days

it becomes Kerry's War.

[Kanary]

36. Kucinich planned to have the US *OUT* in 90 days.......

Surely, if Kerry is a better politician, he could do as much?

Kanary

[Ganja Ninja]

5. I don't see how staying will prevent Iraq from the inevitable.

The country was a military dictatorship and will eventually return to that. That's just the way things work in that part of the world. It doesn't matter if we stay a year or ten years. After we leave the army will take charge and someone will become the next Saddam.

[paulk]

19. what army?

Iraq doesn't have an army. What they have now are several well armed factions whose differing goals are inimical to any long term peace prospects. Not to mention external forces all interested in seeing Iraq stumble. If the US just ups and leaves what Iraq will have is civil war - of which the end result will be a failed state - not unlike Afghanistan.

And why a military dictatorship? Because "that's the way things work in that part of the world"? What about Turkey? It's a secular democracy. Even Iran is moving toward a more democratic state. Why be such a pessimist?

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FlashHarry]

6. Wrong.

We can't leave until it is stabilized with UN troops. If we leave now, Bush's destruction of that country will be complete. We shouldn't have gone in the first place, but now that we're there, we owe it to the Iraqi people to leave the country better off than when we arrived. If we don't, the ensuing vacuum will be filled with civil war that could result in millions of casualties. In addition, it will almost certainly become a haven for terrorists (it's already happening).

Remember what happened in Afghanistan after the Soviets left? That's what we're looking at.

The problem is, you have a country that was created by European imperialists--an artificial construct whose borders encompass three distinct ethnic/religious groups that have been warring for centuries. The only reason it hasn't self-destructed is that it was held together by a tyrannical despot--the only form of government that can maintain control in such a situation. The same thing has happened time and time again in post-colonial Africa. Look at Nigeria--you've got Yoruba, Hausa and Ibo tribes in one country--its history is rife with despotism, corruption and civil war.

I want the US out of Iraq--don't get me wrong. But it must be in a way that brings peace to the region. I'm guessing that will involve the eventual breakup of the country, with an independent Kurdistan in the north, a separate Sunni state in the middle and west, and the annexation of the Shia south east to Iran.

Just my two cents.

[mopaul]

7. I see your point harry

and that could work if done right. that's all i ask for, ending it.
if that would end it, and get us out, i'll go for it. all we need to do is prove to them that we are not bush's nazis.

stop the stealing and killing and nazi tactics and start being sincere peacemakers. bush did not put us there for any lofty noble reasons, he's there for mayhem and profit. your two cents are worth a lot.

[FlashHarry]

8. I agree that the current situation in untenable.

There's no way that BushCo can solve this. Only President Kerry can bring in the international support we need.

[mrdmk]

40. I agree we cannot leave Iraq in the mess it is in!

The real truth is we left Afghanistan the same time the Soviets did. our counter measures to beat down the U.S.S.R. (this is the Regan's history) was to pump money, arms, (so called) intelligence and a little mussel into Afghanistan. After the Soviets left Regan/Bush left Afghanistan in turmoil without so much as a hand shake.

[Catt03]

14. I agree with you

Seems we are always on the tail end, cleaning up attempts at colonialism by Britain or France. Think we and they would learn.

However, we need to make an effort and then leave.

And, yes, it will always be Bush's war.

[FlashHarry]

23. No shit.

Clinton cleaning up after ReaganBush™---and now, this!

[calimary]

31. bush's destruction of that country ALREADY IS complete.

That whole area's been thoroughly messed up. What was the term floating around here earlier? Cluster-fuck?

Seems to me, from what I've read and researched, and the latest polls of Iraqis, the best way to help that country begin to recover is TO TAKE US OUT OF THE PICTURE. As long as we're there, we're like a large, dirty, multi-barbed splinter deep in the flesh. The wound will only continue to fester and swell and become ever more poisonous and even gangrenous as long as that splinter stays in place. To heal, the splinter FIRST has to be REMOVED. WE are that splinter.

[Jacobin]

9. He won't

And that pisses me off, too. My only hope is that he is less likely to continue to conquer other Middle Eastern countries that Smirky.

[mopaul]

10. if he had the guts to say, 'get us out now', he'd landslide right in

is dissapoints me that he isn't more anti war, afterall, he's been in one.

[FlashHarry]

11. Wrong. It would be political suicide.

See my comments, above.

[BeFree]

13. Political Suicide

What is it about suicide that folks don't get?

Kerry is as left a politician as any we have seen since Gore. Kerry has stated that the Iraqi occupation is bad news, yet some still want him to run off the cliff and alienate the sheeple by playing his hand well before the time is right.

It would do Kerry no good to come out totally against the occupation. It would do no more than piss off a whole bunch of voters, the military, and give * a campaign advantage.

I am as anti-occupation as anybody here. While I can safely rant about getting the troops out, Kerry would be committing poltical suicide by so doing.

[Fear]

12. WHAT WAR?, WHAT WAR ON TERRORISM????

you know, I was reading this GREAT article here - and it said:

The fantasy of a 'war against terrorism' - something that doesn't exist and, without the possibility of an enemy surrendering itself, can't exist (on edit: addition follows here) made an end to the gradual consildation of a relative stable and society of states

- THERE -

[the Kelly Gang]

15. get Kerry in and he'll get the US out. Don't worry about whats being said

now

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Don't hold your breath. That would take courage.

A componant sadly lacking in "our" candidate as evidenced by his support for the IWR and his recent statements. He's terrified of being tagged "soft on defense".

[THUNDER HANDS]

17. he wouldn't do that

What he will do is pull us out slowly, unit-by-unit.

I expect us, for both military and political reasons, to be out of Iraq by 2006.

Kerry doesn't want his presidency bogged down in Iraq like LBJ's was in Vietnam.

[Nlighten1]

18. Stay the course MoPaul!

God damn it you need to get on board and conform! His royal highness John Kerry has already spoken and you need to get on board and stop being so selfish with your wants and needs.

[senseandsensibility]

21. Agreed

And who is more likely to do that? Bush or Kerry? First of all, Kerry is not being led around by the nose by neocons who wanted to invade Iraq before 9-11. Second, Kerry is not mentally deficient. Third, Kerry is not beholden to Halliburton. Therefore, he does not have as one of his MAJOR conditions for leaving Iraq, total control and privatization of Iraq's oil reserves. Kerry may not be able to say that he will leave Iraq quickly(for political reasons) but the facts are self-evident.

[mopaul]

26. kerry gets my vote, happily

but i want us out of iraq and on a new track.

i don't want anyone being politically expedient while people still die. i know he has to be a politician and win this damn thing too.

i just cannot wrap my mind around anyone voting for bush over kerry.
hypnosis i guess.

[senseandsensibility]

37. Ha Ha!

I just "got" your graphic. I'm a little slow on the uptake today. Thanks for the laugh. Barbara looks so very happy; you can tell nothing is disturbing her beautiful mind.:P

[Mandate My Ass]

22. Me too

or else I'll have to march on Washington and to do that
I'll need a cool mopaul-original protest sign.

The one I use now rocks.

[spanone]

25. Amen.

[Walt Starr]

27. If he doesn't make serious moves to get us out during the first 100 days

then I'm off the bandwagon and would even vote for a Republican over him come 2008, with the exception of a Bush.

[ElementaryPenguin]

29. He will. He just can't say all that yet. ChimpCo will call him a traitor

And dumb 'Muricans will believe the label - and WE'LL BE FUCKED!

[0007]

30. I do too Mopaul. by the way is that dog barbara bush?

[mopaul]

35. that's my neighbor's dog barbara

she tells me to do things......bad things

[Malva Zebrina]

33. for some reason I do not think it will be "post haste" if Kerry is elected

I think Kerry is absolutely on the side of the corporations who have seized the oil fields and I think he actually voted to give Bush that blank check because he saw the advantage to the US of having control over that oil.

I am not, as you can see, enamored of John Kerry, mostly because the entire attack was an immoral, despicable act on the part of my country, and thousands were murdered in my name

Kerry voted to let it happen. He will carry that on his back--and I am wondering if really, he cares. I do think he was for it--and now is running on the failures of Bush to secure it.

Sorry--have no faith in someone who voted to invade a defenseless country and must have been aware that shock and awe could murder thousands, ten thousand, innocent people.

[Pastiche423]

38. And that, IMHO, is why he will not apologize for his vote

or admit that he was wrong. (Not lied to.)

[Ginaz]

39. What's your plan?

For the immediate withdrawl?

For the year after, and the year after?

Any thoughts on how to fix our economy if upheaval in the Mideast, caused by an Iraqi civil war, causes Saudi Arabia to fall to fundamentalists, thus delivering planetary oil resources into Wahabbist hands? Or what to do if Pakistan falls and their nukes fall into fundamentalist hands?

etc.?

It's righteous to demand that we leave. All my own senses agree with the sentiment. But Bush made this amazing mess in the name of America, and it is up to America to unmake it. That does not mean we smash the place and then write it off.

[mopaul]

42. yeah well whatever is what i say

izzat clear enough?

[Ginaz]

45. 135,000 US troops, 20 million Iraqis, many millions more in the region

So no, sadly, 'Whatever' is not nearly clear enough.

[Cascadian]

41. I agree.

He best better come up with a plan to get us out of Iraq and not do it by sending more troops in there which he wants. My big question is where is he going to get the extra troops to do this? There was an article a week ago in The Stranger and I am afraid the signs of a pending draft seem very clear. Read the article. It seems to me it doesn't make any damn difference who is president in 2005. Of course Bush and Kerry would not dare discuss any consription talk before the elections.

http://www.thestranger.com/2004-06-03/feature.html


Kerry should just get them out the first day he walks into the Oval Office. See that keeping our forces there is counterproductive and I seriously doubt NATO or the UN are going to want to help in the clean-up. I really doubt it.

John

[Fescue4u]

43. I wouldnt hold my breath on that

Im sure that Kerry will fix things overthere, but he does support the war in Iraq so I don't expect him to go back on that.