Patriot Act Definition of Terrorism: Got a Problem with It?

[BurtWorm]

Section 802 of the Patriot Act defines domestic terrorism as activities that “appear to be intended to influence policy of a government by intimidation or coercion”

Wouldn't this make Bush a terrorist by definition?

[proud patriot]

1. It would make Martin Luther King Jr. a terrorist

I have a serious problem with this definition .

[porphyrian]

2. My God! I'm Surrounded By Terrorists!

Are enough voters awake yet to clean up this mess?

[BurtWorm]

4. The mess is not going to be cleaned up while Repubs own Congress.

The sad fact is I can't trust Democrats anymore, even, to have the spine to clean it up even if they win back Congress.

[porphyrian]

9. How many legislators' terms come up this year?

Are there any? Want to see them grow some balls? Let's threaten their careers. Everybody's fired.

[BurtWorm]

14. The whole House of Reps is up and a third of Senators.

But they've been fucking with the rules to make incumbents more secure.

[porphyrian]

19. Still A Chance

Maybe I'm just full of stupid optimism, but don't forget that these assholes are mobilizing a bunch of people to the polls who normally wouldn't even want to talk about politics. And they're convincing people in their own party to stay home on Election Day. I'm not saying we can all quit now, but I think everyone's in for a surprise this year.

[bluestateguy]

3. It could also make draft resistance a form of "terrorism"

Isn't that trying to coerce or intimidate the government into changing its war policy?

[shraby]

7. That also would include any

and all protest marches

[Fear]

5. Goodbye democracy.......

Ah well, there's always Iraq, it's supposed to get a real democracy there.

[Hunter_1253]

Then aren't we terrorists...

by intimidating the Iraqi people with guns in an attempt to coerce their government to a democracy? I’m also a terrorist by trying to convince people that Kerry is better than Bush. I’d hide, but the CIA couldn’t find me if I gave them a map, a flashlight, and cab fair to my house.

[tandot]

6. I think there are more "domestic terrorists" on freerepublic

threats and "intimidation or coercion" are their favorite tactics. And that is why they love Bush...they are all alike...

[Outlaw420]

8. Patriot Act is BS

I have had friends of mine arrested under the Patriot act are they terrorist? No, are they illegal aliens? No, they Smoke Weed!! Thats it nothing more and get this is domestic weed at that. Patriot act Indeed there is nothing patriotic about it its a tool to be abused by the DEA as well. Does anyone here drink imported wine, beer, or whiskey? if so watch out big brother is watching!!!

[RBHam]

10. Exactly

And the neo-Fascist cabal in control has benefitted mightily from 9-11.

Dont'cha think?

[Outlaw420]

13. No doubt about it

This is a stepping stone to a dictator/communist government

[mongo]

15. can you elaborate?

About your friends and the patriot act?

I've heard about the DEA shutting down pro-MJ rallies under the RAVE act - by threatening the venue owners that they would confiscate all of their property.

How does the patriot act figure in? Illegal searches?

[Outlaw420]

21. they can search

your house and not even tell you about it and its perfectly ok according to the Patriot act. They can tap your phone with no warrent mainly it falls under the surveilence they can watch you from all sorts of ways and you will know nothing no warrants at all

[Outlaw420]

24. Sorry i was wrong

Under 18 U. S. C. ¡ø 3103a(b), three requirements must be met before a federal court may issue a sneak and peek search warrant for evidence of a federal crime.

First, the court must find ¡Èreasonable cause to believe that providing immediate notification of the execution of the warrant may have an adverse result (as defined in section 2705).¡É 18 U. S. C. ¡ø 2705(a)(2) defines ¡Èadverse result¡É to be (1) endangering the life or physical safety of an individual, (2) flight from prosecution, (3) destruction of or tampering with evidence, (4) intimidation of potential witnesses, or (5) otherwise seriously jeopardizing an investigation or unduly delaying a trial.

Second, the warrant must prohibit ¡Èthe seizure of any tangible property ... except where the court finds reasonable necessity for the seizure ...¡É Whereas the sneak and peek warrants litigated in the Second and Ninth Circuits between 1986 and 1993 were specifically limited to intangible evidence, 18 U.S. C. ¡ø 3103a(b) authorizes sneak and peek warrants for the seizure not only of intangibles, but also of tangibles, provided the court finds ¡Èreasonable necessity¡É for the seizure of the tangibles. Presumably, if tangible evidence is seized under a sneak and peek warrant the seizure will be carried out clandestinely; for example, a seized physical object might be replaced with another object that appears to be the original item.

Third, the warrant must provide for the giving of notice of execution of the warrant ¡Èwithin a reasonable period of its execution, which period may thereafter be extended by the court for good cause shown.¡É

http://www.lawsch.uga.edu/academics/profiles/dwilkes_more/37patriot.html
Try this it explaines it better than i can

[hobbit709]

11. Patriot Act

Ashcroft would label Paine, Jefferson, Franklin and Washington as terrorists.

[stavka]

17. So would I

using this half-wit definition

[newyawker99]

30. Hi hobbit709!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[TahitiNut]

12. What about ....

... "activities that appear to be intended to influence attitudes of a people by intimidation or coercion”?

Does it wash both ways?

Since when can a "government" legitimately possess rights and liberties not enjoyed by the people?

Can any government legitimately hold any power or authority not possessed by the very people who are the source of its legitimacy?

If we deny the above, we deny the very basis of the United States Constitution itself.

[stavka]

16. Don't union activities meet this definition?

[tom_paine]

18. It would make Mother Theresa a Terrorist. It would make ANYBODY

except the most utterly brain-dead and sheep-like individuals "terrorists".

And that is JUST the way the Totalitarians like it! Always have, always will.

[neoteric lefty]

20. I thought terrorism is defined by

violence towards a government or its people.

[mondo joe]

22. Isn't that what Bush wants the pope to do?

Isn't withholding communion from a believing Catholic because of his policy stance coercion???

[porphyrian]

23. Everybody Responsible For This Is Fired.

I really love the "appear to be intended" part. What the fuck is that? So, if I wrote a story about a terrorist, from that terrorist's perspective, and it was confiscated before completion, then it would be an act of domestic terrorism as defined by this Act, regardless of whether it was fiction or not? Fuck, I hate these bastards, and I hate the complacent do-nothing "Democrat" fucks in Congress that let this shit through. You're all fucking fired!

[JDPriestly]

25. Terrorism definition

activities that “appear to be intended to influence policy of a government by intimidation or coercion”

Wouldn't that include the Boston Tea Party, Paul Revere's Ride, the conduct of each and every member of the Confederate Army, George Wallace standing at the door of the University of Alabama, etc., etc.?

Isn't the definition so overbroad as to be unconstitutional?

[pollock]

26. Definition:

5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

`(B) appear to be intended--

`(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Section802.html#802

It seems that under rule 5, "A" not prerequisite for "B".

[Outlaw420]

27. So by 5A

If i get a speeding ticket i am a terrorist? they concider speeding dangerous to the other drivers on the road

[pollock]

28. It's hard to believe.....

Seems to make anyone possibly a terrorist.

[BurtWorm]

31. I wonder if this idiocy is part of what they want to make permanent.

Does the SAFE Act address this?

[BurtWorm]

32. As far as I can tell, SAFE would not alter PATRIOT's definition

of terrorist. Am I wrong?


http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.1709:

SAFE Act (Introduced in Senate)

S 1709 IS


108th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 1709
To amend the USA PATRIOT ACT to place reasonable limitations on the use of surveillance and the issuance of search warrants, and for other purposes.


IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

October 2, 2003
Mr. CRAIG (for himself, Mr. DURBIN, Mr. CRAPO, Mr. FEINGOLD, Mr. SUNUNU, Mr. WYDEN, and Mr. BINGAMAN) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A BILL
To amend the USA PATRIOT ACT to place reasonable limitations on the use of surveillance and the issuance of search warrants, and for other purposes.


Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Security and Freedom Ensured Act of 2003' or the `SAFE Act'.

SEC. 2. LIMITATION ON ROVING WIRETAPS UNDER FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE ACT OF 1978.

Section 105(c) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1805(c)) is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1), by striking subparagraphs (A) and (B) and inserting the following:

`(A)(i) the identity of the target of electronic surveillance, if known; or

`(ii) if the identity of the target is not known, a description of the target and the nature and location of the facilities and places at which the electronic surveillance will be directed;

`(B)(i) the nature and location of each of the facilities or places at which the electronic surveillance will be directed, if known; and

`(ii) if any of the facilities or places are unknown, the identity of the target;'; and

(2) in paragraph (2)--

(A) by redesignating subparagraphs (B) through (D) as subparagraphs (C) through (E), respectively; and

(B) by inserting after subparagraph (A), the following:

`(B) in cases where the facility or place at which the surveillance will be directed is not known at the time the order is issued, that the surveillance be conducted only when the presence of the target at a particular facility or place is ascertained by the person conducting the surveillance;'.

SEC. 3. LIMITATION ON AUTHORITY TO DELAY NOTICE OF SEARCH WARRANTS.

(a) IN GENERAL- Section 3103a of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in subsection (b)--

(A) in paragraph (1), by striking `may have an adverse result (as defined in section 2705)' and inserting `will--

`(A) endanger the life or physical safety of an individual;

`(B) result in flight from prosecution; or

`(C) result in the destruction of, or tampering with, the evidence sought under the warrant'; and

(B) in paragraph (3), by striking `within a reasonable period' and all that follows and inserting `not later than 7 days after the execution of the warrant, which period may be extended by the court for an additional period of not more than 7 days each time the court finds reasonable cause to believe, pursuant to a request by the Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, or an Associate Attorney General, that notice of the execution of the warrant will--

`(A) endanger the life or physical safety of an individual;

`(B) result in flight from prosecution; or

`(C) result in the destruction of, or tampering with, the evidence sought under the warrant.'; and

(2) by adding at the end the following:

`(c) REPORTS-

`(1) IN GENERAL- Every 6 months, the Attorney General shall submit a report to Congress summarizing, with respect to warrants under subsection (b), the requests made by the Department of Justice for delays of notice and extensions of delays of notice during the previous 6-month period.

`(2) CONTENTS- Each report submitted under paragraph (1) shall include, for the preceding 6-month period--

`(A) the number of requests for delays of notice with respect to warrants under subsection (b), categorized as granted, denied, or pending; and

`(B) for each request for delayed notice that was granted, the number of requests for extensions of the delay of notice, categorized as granted, denied, or pending.

`(3) PUBLIC AVAILABILITY- The Attorney General shall make the report submitted under paragraph (1) available to the public.'.

(b) SUNSET PROVISION-

(1) IN GENERAL- Subsections (b) and (c) of section 3103a of title 18, United States Code, shall cease to have effect on December 31, 2005.

(2) EXCEPTION- With respect to any particular foreign intelligence investigation that began before the date on which the provisions referred to in paragraph (1) cease to have effect, or with respect to any particular offense or potential offense that began or occurred before the date on which the provisions referred to in paragraph (1) cease to have effect, such provisions shall continue in effect.

SEC. 4. PRIVACY PROTECTIONS FOR LIBRARY, BOOKSELLER, AND OTHER PERSONAL RECORDS UNDER FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE ACT OF 1978.

(a) APPLICATIONS FOR ORDERS- Section 501(b)(2) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1861(b)(2)) is amended--

(1) by striking `shall specify that the records' and inserting `shall specify that--

`(A) the records'; and

(2) by striking the period at the end and inserting the following: `; and

`(B) there are specific and articulable facts giving reason to believe that the person to whom the records pertain is a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power.'.

(b) ORDERS- Section 501(c)(1) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1861(c)(1)) is amended by striking `finds that' and all that follows and inserting `finds that--

`(A) there are specific and articulable facts giving reason to believe that the person to whom the records pertain is a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power; and

`(B) the application meets the other requirements of this section.'.

(c) OVERSIGHT OF REQUESTS FOR PRODUCTION OF RECORDS- Section 502(a) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1862) is amended to read as follows:

`(a) On a semiannual basis, the Attorney General shall, with respect to all requests for the production of tangible things under section 501, fully inform--

`(1) the Select Committee on Intelligence of the Senate;

`(2) the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;

`(3) the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence of the House of Representatives; and

`(4) the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives.'.

SEC. 5. PRIVACY PROTECTIONS FOR COMPUTER USERS AT LIBRARIES UNDER NATIONAL SECURITY AUTHORITY.

Section 2709 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in subsection (a)--

(A) by striking `A wire' and inserting the following:

`(1) IN GENERAL- A wire'; and

(B) by adding at the end the following:

`(2) EXCEPTION- A library shall not be treated as a wire or electronic communication service provider for purposes of this section.'; and

(2) by adding at the end the following:

`(f) DEFINED TERM- In this section, the term `library' means a library (as that term is defined in section 213(2) of the Library Services and Technology Act (20 U.S.C. 9122(2)) whose services include access to the Internet, books, journals, magazines, newspapers, or other similar forms of communication in print or digitally to patrons for their use, review, examination, or circulation.'.

SEC. 6. EXTENSION OF PATRIOT SUNSET PROVISION.

Section 224(a) of the USA PATRIOT ACT (18 U.S.C. 2510 note) is amended--

(1) by striking `213, 216, 219,'; and

(2) by inserting `and section 505' after `by those sections)'.

[Liberal Classic]

29. Tie-in with McCain Feingold?

Here's a creative use of law enforcement waiting to happen.