Who are we to cheer for in Chechnya? In the Balkans?

[stavka]

I liken these conflicts to war in Afghanistan before their guests started flying planes into skyscrapers.

Clearly the Russians/Serbs were the bad guys in this war in days gone by, are they still? What about the Croats?

These are wars where the former "good guys" certainly would now meet many definitions of "terrorism".

The proof the world is a Grey Zone?

[ArkDem]

1. cheer for?

[wuushew]

2. Were the Serbs always the bad guys?

I mean Albanian rebels did in fact exist and did in fact cause problems in both Macedonia and Kosovo.

How Clinton justified using NATO to protect a a non-NATO country while bypassing the U.N. does not impress me. The deadlock in the United Nations was the perfect chance to discredit Russia on their flawed ethical support for Serbia.

[stavka]

13. They were good guys (worth Cheering)

Before the cold war - if you needed a Balkan bad guy it was Albania or the internal threat posed by Croatia.

how the times change, I remember thinking Iraq was the country to cheer for in the first Gulf War (The one with Iran)

[AP]

3. In Chechnya the Russians want to control wealth that should be in the

hands of Chechens.

It's sad that Chechens -- who fought fascism during world war II (when the Nazis wanted Eastern Europe to be their liebentraum, or 'living room') and suffered trememdous losses -- are now fighting the people on whose side they fought over the same issues.

[markses]

7. For future reference

"liebentraum" would translate roughly as "love dream" (or even more roughly as "sex dream" or "wet dream"). A nice twist, but the word you're looking for is "Lebensraum," or living space. ;-)

[AP]

11. Oops.

I guess it was their wet dream.

My spelling sucks.

[stavka]

10. ...more rain for the parade

The great many Chechens and South Caucus Turkic people rushed to join the German Army Group South when it was in town, Stalin being seen as a known enemy.

Bad choice, but that was the choice many made. The Germans went South with half the army to look for oil while the rest of AG-SOUTH mired near Stalingrad

[AP]

12. Eric Margolis writes about this in War at the Top of the World.

He says the people the Russians are fighting today are the children of people who fought the Nazis.

[stavka]

14. He's not really wrong either.....

He's not altogether wrong either - but it's a pretty sweeping statement.

....were the Eastern Legions, the so-called "Ostlegionen" which, according to Rosenberg's conception, contained only non-Russian volunteers. Hitler limited them to nationalities living far from the frontiers of the "Great Reich." On December 30th, 1941 a top secret memorandum ordered that the Supreme Command was to create, first the Turkestani Legion from volunteers of the following nationalities: Turkomans, Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Kirghiz, Karakalpaks, and Tadjiks. Second, the Caucasian-Mohammedan Legion, from Azerbaijanis, Daghestans, Ingushes, Lezghins, and Chechens. Third, the Georgian Legion; And fourth, the Armenian Legion.(4)

"According to a statement of the General of Eastern Troops, seemingly made at that time, there were then on the entire Russian Front 427,000 ex-Soviet soldiers serving in the eastern formations, who would have to be replaced by German soldiers in case they were disbanded.(21) This figure DID NOT include over 100,000 "Hiwi" who were not recognized as soldiers, nor Latvian, Estonian and Ukrainian formations. A few days later, when Hitler seemed appeased, he issued a new order: the Eastern Troops were to be withdrawn from the Russian Front and sent to other theaters of operation. Thus, in the autumn of 1943, some 70 to 80% of the Eastern troops were gradually withdrawn from the Russian front and moved to Poland, France, Italy, the Balkans, etc. In this way Hitler deprived the eastern formations of their essential reason for existence- the fight against the Soviets."

"At the end of August 1944, the Americans alone had some 20,000 prisoners from the Eastern formations."

Primarily taken from "Soviet Opposition to Stalin" George Fisher

[gpandas]

4. i dig your sentiment, but cheer for peace

[markses]

5. I didn't realize we cheered during brutal wars

Silly me. Go team!

[The Blue Knight]

6. P.S. FUCK THE PISTONS

Haha, just messing man.

Go Lakers ;)

[markses]

8. Man, I wish I could give the slightest

shit about basketball...you basketball fans seem to be revved up, and I just can't feel it, being a hockey guy.

[stavka]

9. I hear you.....

I have never watched a basketball game in my life - college, high school or pro.

Unless you are an advertising item or accused of some heinous crime I probably wouldn't know your name or visage if you are a basketball player, or any other major sports figure.

Detroit is winning the finals, and Detroit needs every bit of good news it can get. Hence <-