so, did Richard Clarke arrange for bin Laden family to get out of town

[buycitgo]

after 9/11?........so quotes Joe Scarborough.......what's the deal with that? anybody know?......this is important, cause Moore will be SCREWED if this is true.....what does Unger have to say about this?

[NMDemDist2]

1. I did read that Clarke said something to that effect

google may help

[buycitgo]

10. been googling since I posted

my computer is screwed up....this site:....http://new.globalfreepress.com/911/03/09/03/194214.shtml

[buycitgo]

11. from uneditable post above

Dale Watson, highly praised by Clarke in his book, was responsible! Members of Osama bin Laden's family were allowed to fly out of the US shortly after the September 11 terror attacks, a senior official has said. Even though American airspace had been shut down, the Bush administration allowed a jet to fly around the US picking up family members from 10 cities, including Los Angeles, Washington DC, Boston and Houston. Some 140 high ranking Saudi officials were also on the plane. The revelations come from former White House counter-terrorism chief Richard Clarke.

He said the Bush administration sanctioned the repatriation of the family in the immediate aftermath of the attacks. 'Repatriation approved' "Somebody brought to us for approval the decision to let an airplane filled with Saudis, including members of the bin Laden family, leave the country," he told Vanity Fair magazine.

Mr Clarke said he checked with FBI officials, who gave the go ahead. "So I said, 'Fine, let it happen'." He first asked the bureau to check that no one "inappropriate" was leaving. "I have no idea if they did a good job. I'm not in any position to second guess the FBI," he said.

But Dale Watson, the FBI's former head of counter-terrorism, said the Saudis "were not subject to serious interviews or interrogations". .......this is the second time I've come across bad things linking Clarke and Watson......Watson and Meuller were the two FBI thugs who intimidated Sibel Edmonds! what's going on here?......I just finished Clarke's book and have said recently it's one of the most compelling things I've ever read. anybody else put these things together?

[catzies]

2. According to this he did

http://www.hillnews.com/news/052604/clarke.aspx

[shraby]

4. In his testimony at the 9/11 commission

hearing, he was asked about the flights. He said he knew about them or let them leave, but didn't know who okayed them.

[powergirl]

5. Clarke's book said he asked the FBI and the FBI and cheney cleared it eom

[Stephanie]

3. Clarke said that the question was brought to him

And he said he couldn't authorize that without clearance from FBI. And he said that he wasn't sure who asked him - might have been Andrew Card? That's what I remember him saying in an interview. So he passed it to FBI and he assumes it was FBI that cleared it.

[Daisey Mae]

7. It was the FBI under orders by BUSH........

[Stephanie]

20. well, Cheney

Bunnypants was Bunker Hopping.

[Daisey Mae]

6. Clarke may have given the actual order, BUT

the real order came down from Bush/Cheney..... don't forget by this time Richard Clarke had been demoted to a rank that investigated the computor espionage.....Because Richard Clarke took over on 911 while Bush, Cheney and Rice hid... Clarke stood up and handeled the operations room in the White House..... Scarbrough is lying and needs to be asked why he killed his secretary?

[UTUSN]

8. We always want to Negativity Ourselves n/t

[buycitgo]

15. what are you TALKING about? I very much want to know what's going on

here......Clarke seems to be contradicting himself, depending on whom you believe, I guess.....he's DEFINITELY tight with Watson, per his book. did you read it? he said Watson and John ONeill were about the only ones in the FBI he could trust. Sibel Edmonds has nothing good to say about Watson, unless there are TWO Dale Watsons very high up in the FBI.....doesn't anyone want to know the truth? if it comes out that there are holes in Clarke's story, which affect Moore's telling, what do you think it's going to do to the credibility of his movie? you can be CERTAIN that Scarborough's show will be the basis for widespread use of the talking point that Moore got it wrong on the bin Ladens leaving the country at Bush's behest......does that not concern anyone? could this be some sort of deep cover sting going on here?.......they're talking about this very thing on Majority Report, as I type this.

[mzmolly]

9. Moore won't be screwed. Clark worked for Bush at the time, remember?

This actually shows that Clark is a man of integrity. He said he did the right thing getting the family out of the country ... this doesn't absolve Bush of his questionable Saudi ties either way.

From the link:

http://www.hillnews.com/news/052604/clarke.aspx

Clark said:

"“I believe after the FBI came back and said it was all right with them, we ran it through the decision process for all these decisions that we were making in those hours, which was the interagency Crisis Management Group on the video conference,” Clarke testified. “I was making or coordinating a lot of the decisions on 9-11 in the days immediately after. And I would love to be able to tell you who did it, who brought this proposal to me, but I don’t know. The two — since you press me, the two possibilities that are most likely are either the Department of State or the White House chief of staff’s office.”

My guess is we'll be hearing more ???

[KittyWampus]

12. Thanks For Link. Please Note Clark Didn't ARRANGE Anything

He didn't request anything
He didn't arrange anything
He didn't vett anything

All he did is APPROVE the flight after it cleared throught proper channels.

Who requested the flight?
Who arranged the flight?
Who at the FBI vetted the passenger list?

[FARAFIELD]

13. I DONT KNOW HOW THAT LIE STARTED

THAT CLARKE OK'D IT. I was listening to his testimony, ROEMER had asked him, and he said it came to him and that he couldnt ok it, and refered it to the FBI, later when he followed up he found out that the planes had been ok'd but that he could only guess that it was one of those two agencies that ok;d it. I dont know how they get :"CLARKE OK'd it from that" just a right wing lie

[buycitgo]

19. he DID approve it.....he said he did.....check quotes linked here

I hope he didn't arrange anything; he says not, but there are some contradictions here, so I wonder where this is going. I DON't want to see anything blow up here, so can somebody put this into context?.....especially the Clarke/Watson connection?

[nose pin]

35. You missed a key part

The paragraph you quoted was background in the article, just restating what he testified to. The REAL meat of this article is this:

In an interview with The Hill yesterday, Clarke said, “I take responsibility for it. I don’t think it was a mistake, and I’d do it again.”

...snip

But Clarke yesterday appeared to put an end to the mystery.

“It didn’t get any higher than me,” he said. “On 9-11, 9-12 and 9-13, many things didn’t get any higher than me. I decided it in consultation with the FBI.”

[buycitgo]

38. you're right....does that make it worse, or better?

I don't think I like the connotation there


the other stuff makes it seem like he was getting ordered around by the FBI, right?

I think I need to get some sleep

[nose pin]

39. It seems to be a problem

IMHO

[mzmolly]

44. Actually I read that initially, and put the quote in it's full context.

It is you that is 'missing the meat.' :hi:

[TexasProgresive]

14. I don't think he "arranged" it

It is interesting that Richard Clarke who had been downgraded to a position where he could not address the principal cabinet members was in control of the White House on September 11th. I guess he had to stand in for the hawkish chickens hiding in bunkers and high plains Air Force Bases.

If I remember Clarke said the he approved the flight of the Saudis if the FBI vetted the passengers. Someone else had already put the flight plan together.

With all that was going on at the time I can forgive Mr. Clarke letting this slip. He had a lot on his plate. Without the pressure of having to deal with keeping the nation functioning I was like a zomby for at least 3 days. I didn't come out of it until the spare tire fell over in my truck, scaring the bejezus out of me. It was like a bomb went off. Until that moment I was numb, no feelings, no nothing.

[Carni]

16. No, he did not

According to his testimony (that I heard with my own ears)
he basically bagged on the issue and deferred it to the FBI when he was approached about it immediately after 9-11.

He didn't actually order their evacuation but put it in someone else's hands assuming they would be debriefed before they were allowed to leave.

[Stephanie]

17. Okay, here is transcript of his testimony before 9/11 Commission

This is his public testimony before the Commission:

link

ROEMER: We will certainly be looking to people in future hearings for their recommendations in a host of different areas. So I hope that you might think through this area a little bit more and be available to us. Mr. Clarke, let me ask you some difficult questions for you to get at the complexity of our relationship with the Saudis. One the one hand, I think there's a great deal of unanimity that the Saudis were not doing everything they could before 9/11 to help us in a host of different areas; 15 of the 19 hijackers came from there. We had trouble tracking some of the financing for terrorist operations. But we still have too many of the madrassas and the teachings of hatred of Christians and Jews and others coming out of some of these madrassas. We need to broaden and deepen this relationship. I will ask you a part A and a part B. Part A is where do we go in this difficult relationship? And part B is to further look at the difficulty here. You made a decision after 9/11 to, I think -- and I'd like to ask you more about this -- to allow a plane of Saudis to fly out of the country. And when most other planes were grounded, this plane flew from the United States back to Saudi Arabia. I'd like to know why you made that decision, who was on this plane, and if the FBI ever had the opportunity to interview those people.

CLARKE: You're absolutely right that the Saudi Arabian government did not cooperate with us significantly in the fight against terrorism prior to 9/11. Indeed, it didn't really cooperate until after bombs blew up in Riyadh. Now, as to this controversy about the Saudi evacuation aircraft, let me tell you everything I know, which is that in the days following 9/11 -- whether it was on 9/12 or 9/15, I can't tell you -- we were in a constant crisis management meeting that had started the morning of 9/11 and ran for days on end. We were making lots of decisions, but we were coordinating them with all the agencies through the video teleconference procedure.

CLARKE: Someone -- and I wish I could tell you, but I don't know who -- someone brought to that group a proposal that we authorize a request from the Saudi embassy. The Saudi embassy had apparently said that they feared for the lives of Saudi citizens because they thought there would be retribution against Saudis in the United States as it became obvious to Americans that this attack was essentially done by Saudis, and that there were even Saudi citizens in the United States who were part of the bin Laden family, which is a very large family, very large family. The Saudi embassy therefore asked for these people to be evacuated; the same sort of thing that we do all the time in similar crises, evacuating Americans. The request came to me and I refused to approve it. I suggested that it be routed to the FBI and that the FBI look at the names of the individuals who were going to be on the passenger manifest and that they approve it -- or not. I spoke with at that time the number two person in the FBI, Dale Watson, and asked him to deal with this issue. The FBI then approved -- after some period of time, and I can't tell you how long -- approved the flight. Now, what degree of review the FBI did of those names, I cannot tell you. How many people there are on the plane, I cannot tell you. But I have asked since: Were there any individuals on that flight that in retrospect the FBI wishes they could have interviewed in this country. And the answer I've been given is no, that there was no one who left on that flight who the FBI now wants to interview.

ROEMER: Despite the fact that we don't know if Dale Watson interviewed them in the first place.

CLARKE: I don't think they were ever interviewed in this country.

ROEMER: So they were not interviewed here. We have all their names. We don't know if there has been any follow up to interview those people that were here and flown out of the country.

CLARKE: The last time I asked that question, I was informed that the FBI still had no desire to interview any of these people.

ROEMER: Would you have a desire to interview some of these people that...

CLARKE: I don't know who they are.

ROEMER: We don't know who they are...

CLARKE: I don't know who they are. The FBI knew who they were because they...

ROEMER: Given your confidence in your statements on the FBI, what's your level of comfort with this?

CLARKE: Well, I will tell you in particular about the ones that get the most attention here in the press, and they are members of the bin Laden family.


CLARKE: I was aware, for some time, that there were members of the bin Laden family living in the United States. And, let's see, in open session I can say that I was very well aware of the members of the bin Laden family and what they were doing in the United States. And the FBI was extraordinarily well aware of what they were doing in the United States. And I was informed by the FBI that none of the members of the bin Laden family, this large clan, were doing anything in this country that was illegal or that raised their suspicions. And I believe the FBI had very good information and good sources of information on what the members of the bin Laden family were doing.

ROEMER: I've been very impressed with your memory, sitting through all these interviews the 9/11 commission has conducted with you. I press you, again, to try to recall how this request originated. Who might have passed this on to you at the White House situation room? Or who might have originated that request for the United States government to fly out -- how many people in this plane?

CLARKE: I don't know.

ROEMER: We don't know how many people were on a plane that flew out of this country. Who gave the final approval, then, to say yes, you're clear to go, it's all right with the United States government to go to Saudi Arabia?

CLARKE: I believe, after the FBI came back and said it was all right with them, we ran it through the decision process for all of these decisions we were making in those hours, which was the Interagency Crisis Management Group on the video conference. I was making or coordinating a lot of decisions on 9/11 and the days immediately after. And I would love to be able to tell you who did it, who brought this proposal to me, but I don't know. Since you pressed me, the two possibilities that are most likely are either the Department of State, or the White House Chief of Staff's Office. But I don't know.

ROEMER: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. KEAN: Senator Gorton?

GORTON: One more question on that subject. When the approvals were finally made and when the flight left, was the flight embargo still in effect? Or was that over; were we flying once again?

CLARKE: No, sir. No, Senator. The reason that a decision was needed was because the flight embargo, the grounding, was still in effect.

[progressivebydesign]

21. That's should answer the question sufficiently..

.. for any person with normal intelligence. Why does it seem lately that the negative offensives are coming from within DU? I've seen way too many posts lately that seem oddly anti-Democrat, yet.. seemingly innocent.

[Stephanie]

23. This post isn't one of those

buycitgo is an old friend and this isn't one of those posts. I know what you mean but not in this case.

~S

[progressivebydesign]

41. No, I didn't mean buycitgo..

I meant some of the more odd responses on this thread. Sorry for this misunderstanding.. but there seem to be some people 'round here that "didn't get the memo", so to speak.

[buycitgo]

24. if you're referring to me, you could NOT be farther off base

you don't see contradiction here? did you see Scarborough?....they WILL be using this to attack Moore, as they don't seem to have anything else. If I'm misinterpreting this, please disabuse me of that notion, cause you know they've gone over every aspect of ALL of Moore's movies, writings, quotes, TV appearances, interviews, books (emails?), in order to tear him apart. Look what they did to Clarke, ONeill, DiIulio (sp), etc. I'll be more than happy to let this go, but it's not going to be me that comes after Moore. they were foaming at the mouth tonight on Scabro's show.......BTW, Majority Report just played the Imus interview where JS LAUGHED when Imus said he killed Lori Klausutis. wonder if Joe's ever played that clip on his show, ha

[Trajan]

18. He 'signed off' on it ....

with reservations ...

[buycitgo]

22. so.......does his testimony jibe with those articles?

I'd say not really.....one story says he didn't remember whether it was Cheney's offic or State--no mention of FBI at all (fishy?).....and he's very--what's the word--iffy on his response about the Saudi families, and who he'd want to interview there.....shouldn't he have been more inquisitive about who was on the plane(s), and what they might have been up to? he sure seems less interested in this aspect than that Unger guy........anybody read that book?.......I'm getting a bit queasy over this.......anybody else?

[buycitgo]

25. So.......I'm maybe more confused than ever now

could be my lack of even normal intelligence, I guess.....anyone care to help me out here?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. Why are you trying so hard to discredit Clarke and/or Moore?....

Why are trying so hard to believe a man that was forced to resign by the GOP, and had a secretary die in his office?

Clarke worked for Junior in September 2001...that's where the orders originated. Why is there even a question about that?

[buycitgo]

27. I know I'm on the same side as you are, so I hope you read this whole

thread.

my POINT is that if I came up with this stuff, you KNOW they are.

matter of fact, I found this, while trying to figure out how they came up with the idea that Moore is either lying, or completely off base on this, to the point of beggaring belief.

does that make sense?

what I most fervently desire is for ALL his facts to be unimpeachable.

did you see the Scarborough show?

if you have cable, you BETTER watch it, cause they WILL and ARE going after Moore hammer and tongs, and, as I said here already, this seems to be the ONLY point of contention they've brought up so far.

don't you think that his facts had better be in order?

christ, if you've ever read any of my posts here, you should know that nothing will fulfill my wildest fantasies better than waking up on Novemeber 3 and finding that we can now breathe a little easier, and look forward to JAILING a large percentage of the swine that infest our government.....nice if the Judith Millers could be tossed in along with them

[Vadem]

29. I'm with you BCG! I saw the Scarborough show, (at least...

that portion) and when JS put up the Clarke quote from The Hill, which I hadn't seen til reading this thread, I thought as you did, that he was wrong about Clarke's statement. I remember his testimony before the 9ll Commission. I agree with you that something is fishy about this. What is going on with Clarke? Has he been threatened to change his prior testimony?

[buycitgo]

31. what worried me was the Sibel Edmonds bit with Dalton

I'd just read Clarke's praise of him the night before.....that was where I'd stopped reading his book.

that makes me want to hear what Clarke has to say about her being gagged, and Dalton being a major player

does ANYTHING surprise anymore?

do you put ANYTHING past ANYBODY anymore?

do you trust ANYBODY?

isn't that sad?

[Catherine Vincent]

28. Clarke didn't arrange it, he only approved it after the FBI approved it.

Of course, the FBI get their orders from...say...the White House? After all, Clarke wasn't the president.

Scarbrough is scrapping the bottom of the barrel. The repukes are scared shitless!

[buycitgo]

30. You may be right, but the pugs will SEIZE on that one word......

ARRANGE, just like they did on one or two words with Gore:

THAT was the one who did it on Love Canal, instead of I was the one...that sort of thing (I know I got it wrong there, but that C-word changed from "that" to "I" to smear Gore).....well you all know what I mean

ONE word, which they'll repeat over and over and over

just like they've succeeded in using the word ABUSE instead of TORTURE!!!

how bout MURDER, instead of ABUSE, you FUXXXXXX???????

point is, though, that dems better not allow the parameters of dialogue to be set by the thugs, or this whole thing is going to end up made fun of, scorned, ignored, as were Clarke and ONeill.

speaking of ignored, what about Joe Wilson?????????

how'd they get away with THAT?

[Kinkistyle]

32. Screw the neo-con repukes

Who cares what they say. Truth is the truth. Even the dirty neo-cons can't hold back the mountain of evidence that threatens to crush the very evil breath of every last one of them.

[buycitgo]

36. I'd like to agree, but you do remember what they did, with full

support of the craven media, four years ago?

how could anyone believe they wouldn't print ANY of the damning stories about chimpsimp, any ONE of which would have sunk a normal candidacy.

think about it

[Trajan]

40. Clarke isnt running for POTUS ....

Kerry is ...

FUCK the GOP media whores: DROWN THEM OUT ! ...

[buycitgo]

43. couldn't agree MORE!!! but when you have a kazoo, and they

have a marching band, it's not so easy

I hope the momentum had shifted enough so that their lies won't matter anymore, just as happened in 73-74, and DID NOT ever happen again, cause they LEARNED that lesson very well

that's why Iran Contra was scuttled, and all the other Reagan/Bush scandals, and it's why Whitewater DID happen, and, again, why NOTHING came of all the amazingly venal/cowardly/criminal tales of Bush, beginning four years ago, and continuing today

please, let it start to stop

[rumguy]

33. scareface is doing his usual puff piece for the RNC

:puffpiece:

[buycitgo]

34. puff piece.........hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa

didn't catch that bit of puffery at first

good vun!

Scabrow is such a chancre

[nose pin]

37. AFTER THE TESTIMONY, HE WAS INTERVIEWED BY "THE HILL"

http://www.hillnews.com/news/052604/clarke.aspx

Pertinent quotes:

Richard Clarke, who served as President Bush’s chief of counterterrorism, has claimed sole responsibility for approving flights of Saudi Arabian citizens, including members of Osama bin Laden’s family, from the United States immediately after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

In an interview with The Hill yesterday, Clarke said, “I take responsibility for it. I don’t think it was a mistake, and I’d do it again.”

snip...

But Clarke yesterday appeared to put an end to the mystery.

“It didn’t get any higher than me,” he said. “On 9-11, 9-12 and 9-13, many things didn’t get any higher than me. I decided it in consultation with the FBI.”

Clarke’s explanation fit with a new stance Hamilton has taken on the issue of the Saudi flights.

Hamilton said in an interview Friday that when he told Democratic senators that the commission did not know who authorized the Saudi flights, he was not fully informed.

“They asked the question ‘Who authorized the flight?’ and I said I did not know and I’d try to find out,” Hamilton said. “I learned subsequently from talking to the staff that we thought Clarke authorized the flight and it did not go higher.”

[buycitgo]

42. don't hear, I can shout you! saw your other post, btw

now this, from post 17 here; his actual testimony.....how does one reconcile this with the the article you linked?

CLARKE:.......The Saudi embassy therefore asked for these people to be evacuated; the same sort of thing that we do all the time in similar crises, evacuating Americans. The request came to me and I refused to approve it. I suggested that it be routed to the FBI and that the FBI look at the names of the individuals who were going to be on the passenger manifest and that they approve it -- or not.

I spoke with at that time the number two person in the FBI, Dale Watson, and asked him to deal with this issue. The FBI then approved -- after some period of time, and I can't tell you how long -- approved the flight.

then, from that other article:

Mr Clarke said he checked with FBI officials, who gave the go ahead. "So I said, 'Fine, let it happen'." He first asked the bureau to check that no one "inappropriate" was leaving. "I have no idea if they did a good job. I'm not in any position to second guess the FBI," he said.
http://new.globalfreepress.com/911/03/09/03/194214.shtml

so......where does that leave things?

like I said, before I saw this, I need to sleep

let me know what you think about this.....pls

[mzmolly]

46. There is obviously more than one approval process that was required.

First the FBI, and the other agencies, then Clark. The buck stopped with him, so he took responsibility. It doesn't mean he decided and approved the removal of the family on his own accord.

I don't get what's so hard to grasp. Clark was at the top, he could have stopped the flight from leaving the country, thus he took responsibility.

I don't see the contradiction here. Clark worked for the Bush administration at the time the Bin Ladens left the country.

[TexasSissy]

45. Someone had to TELL him to. Clarke didn't know where

all the bin Laden family members were, or that they were all here. He took responsibility for the arrangements, but on the Scarborough show, that lady missed her chance to point out the obvious - that someone had to TELL Clarke about their being here, where they were, and that they wanted them flown out of the country asap.