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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 07:04 PM
Original message
The Torturer-in-Chief (read this)
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/061804A.shtml

The Torturer-in-Chief
By Marjorie Cohn
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Friday 18 June 2004

The teflon that has enveloped George W. Bush is chipping off. Arriving in office with the promise of a "humble" foreign policy, Bush was sitting pretty at the beginning of his term. But George’s honeymoon has turned sour.

From the first day of his presidency, the neocons in Bush’s cabal determined to "stabilize" Iraq for U.S. corporate investment. Bush had his own motives to "git" Saddam for his would-be hit on George I. The tragedy of September 11 gave them just the opportunity they’d been waiting for.

Cloaking themselves in the "War on Terror," Bush and his minions methodically wove an intricate web of deception to convince the American people that Saddam was about to launch the "mushroom cloud," ending civilization as we know it.

It was our mission, Bush preached, to save the Iraqis from Saddam-the-torturer. But a telling phrase in Bush’s January 2003 State of the Union Address should have prepared us for the emergence of Bush-the-torturer.

"All told, more than 3,000 suspected terrorists have been arrested in many countries, and many others have met a different fate," Bush said. "Let's put it this way," he clarified, "they are no longer a problem for the United States and our friends and allies." This was an implicit admission by Bush that he had sanctioned the summary execution of the "many others."

Gradually, it became clear there were no weapons of mass destruction. This week, the 911 Commission reported there is no credible evidence Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda cooperated in the 911 attacks. Yet, this same week, Dick Cheney intoned that Saddam "had long-established ties with al Qaeda." More disinformation.

Americans soon began to tire of Operation "Iraqi Freedom." Most feel there was no good reason to suffer the deaths of nearly 1000 American soldiers and thousands of Iraqis, no need to spend billions of precious taxpayer dollars on the Iraqi quagmire.

In the face of waning support for the war and the impending U.S. election, the Bushies devised a strategy to hand-over "sovereignty" to the Iraqi people on June 30. notwithstanding the titular end of the occupation, 138,000 American troops will remain on the ground in Iraq. Although the violence in Iraq has intensified, with Iraqis fighting both the occupiers and other Iraqis, the June 30 date stands firm.

Meanwhile, the photographs began to emerge. The world was treated to images of pyramids of naked Iraqis, forced masturbation, unmuzzled dogs snarling at prisoners a few inches away, bleeding and dead Iraqis. Major General Antonio Taguba’s report was released. It documented sodomy with a chemical light and simulated electric wires attached to the penis of a nude hooded prisoner. As fingers began to point up the chain-of-command, prisoners were released and commanders reassigned. The cover-up got underway.

...more...
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. REAL electrodes, not simulated electrodes.
Edited on Thu Jun-17-04 07:12 PM by Eric J in MN
The electrodes were to burn people, not for show.

Read my article at:
http://www.moveleft.com/moveleft_essay_2004_05_30_real_torture_real_sex_real_electrodes.asp

or read this NY Times excerpt:
-------------------------------------------
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/14/international/middleeast/14ABUS.html

Two detainees reported having been given electric shocks at other holding facilities before arriving in Abu Ghraib, according to the interviews. One prisoner's file included photographs of burns on his body. "We didn't want people to know that we knew about it and didn't report it," the soldier said.
----------------------------------

but stop saying "simulated sex" and "simulated electrodes."

The electrodes were hot and prisoners were forced to have homosexual sex with each other.

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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. excellent piece!
I might add that when Bush said "they are no longer a problem for the United States and our friends and allies." many of our great "leaders" in the audience showed their enthusiastic approval.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't know...it's not up to your usual articles...but I guess folks
will like it. Somehow it's not "hard hitting" enough. But, maybe because I'm here on DU and you are writing this for "general audience."

So...I guess it's okay..:shrug:
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I didn't write this
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Well, sorry...my eyes are tired...aren't you glad that I realized it
wasn't your "usual!" :D

Whoever wrote it...it's sort of lacking..but some folks might like it.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. But you DID write "Nine Eleven," and it's worth a read, too.
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burned Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. I can't breathe when I read this stuff
There has been so much harm done that can't be remedied.
We can only soothe, but not with that group in office or left unscathed.
It HAS to happen.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. ya know, I've finally come to believe that these are evil people . . .
for a long time, I think I tended to deny that so many people in our government could actually be so immoral, so unethical, so downright evil . . . I've come to seen that giving the benefit of the doubt in any shape, manner or form is just plain stupid when talking about BushCo . . . these really ARE evil people, who care nothing about anyone or anything other than their own self-interests, and those of their benefactors . . . they've hijacked the government and are using it to their own ends while driving it, and us, into bankruptcy and making the U.S. a pariah internationally . . . they should all be impeached, tried, convicted, and if not shot, then at least imprisoned for life . . .
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
9. Impeachment my ass. It is time to call for the RESIGNATION and PROSICUTION
of George W. Bush!

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infidel2 Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
10. I was tortured
I was tortured for real in Brazil. What happened in Abu Graihb was NOT torture. BELEIVE ME. You have no idea the distress and pain I feel when I hear people using the word torture to describe what happened in Iraq.
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Kenneth ken Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. welcome to DU
Edited on Fri Jun-18-04 02:02 AM by Kennethken
with all due respect, people at Abu Gharib DIED. That most certainly was torture "for real."

edit to add: if you were tortured in Brazil, it is entirely possible the people who tortured you were trained at the School of the Americas, and learned the same techniques that were used in Iraq. Therefore, it is equally possible that those in Iraq were tortured in THE SAME MANNER as you were.

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Val Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Sawing heads off...
My dad lost it when he saw the video of the terrorists sawing off that young American's head. He cried like a baby. (I couldn't watch.) "How could they praise God as they did this?"



Have our soldiers been cutting off heads? Will we see this in Moore's 9/11 movie?



Will this happen to the hostage in Saudi because we in the US are so freaked about mistreatment of prisoners in Iraq?
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LittleApple81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. By torturing people ourselves, we lowered ourselves to their level, WE LET
THEM WIN! And we are torturing in the name of our God, who gave us Bush*.

Look, that they can torture and kill was why (suppossedly) we went to war. Now we have lowered ourselves to their level. THEY WON.
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Val Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I see such stark difference...
between what happened to that poor kid in Iraq, and what will probably happen today to the guy in Saudi, and a bunch of buffoons mess-in' with prisoners.

The pics of humiliating prisoners pales in comparison. The light stick up the butt was bad, but sawing civilians heads off while they're alive???
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LittleApple81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. We HAVE KILLED prisoners, not only humiliated them. Have you kept
up with the news? Did you see the picture in Newsweek (to city a "reliable source") of the wife and child of the prisoner who was killed, put in ice, and photographed with the american females soldier with her thumbs up?
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Val Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. I did not see that pic...
Surely it would be showing over and over on TV?


How did he die? Was it intentional? Are there pics or videos of his murder? Will we see it in "9/11"? Could it have been a tasteless posed pic by these buffoon soldiers.


I just can't see normal people sawing off heads and flying "heavys" into buildings, or sending their kids or little siblings off to be blown-up along with their intended victims. Why have the terrorists pledged to kill all "non-believers"? My Christian neighbors don't act like that.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. We use lethal injections and electric chairs!
But our victims are just as dead! The Saudis have a place in every major city in their country, where they cut people's heads off! When you sink to the level of these Terra-ists, THEY HAVE WON! The Terra-ists have won the hearts and minds of the GOP! Orrin and John have been compromised by the enemy! Mullah Shrub is out of control!
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LittleApple81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Of course it was intentional, otherwise they would not put the body
in ice and sneak it out of the prison. IT WAS POSED with the soldiers for the but the guy was dead as a doornail.
"Normal" people can do awful stuff when they think those at the receiving end either are subhuman or deserve it because they are evil.
They might not put it on tape, but many times they do. How many rapes and murders have been taped by the perpetrators and the tapes used afterwards to prosecute them? Quite a few.

Remember the Germans? they were not inherently evil before Hitler, believed all his bile and hate, and ended up committing atrocities beyond belief. Chileans are Catholic and they conducted horrible acts of torture on their own citizens. Argentinians ditto...

And again the guy wasn't a terrorist. But he was a husband and a father... now dead.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Prisoners have been murdered in US run prisons
There have been several documented cases. "Normal" Christian people did those murders. Nobody is exempt.

And the terrorists haven't pledged to kill all non-believers. I do not condone terrorist tactics, but their aim is usually to be left alone.

I'm sure you'll be able to learn a lot at Michael Moore's film.

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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. Will your dad cry like a baby when * is impeached?
you must know by now that 85% of those in the prison have been released.
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LittleApple81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. If you were tortured, then you should NOT WANT ANYTHING LIKE
WHAT IS HAPPENING TO IRAQIS AND AFGHANS AT OUR HANDS TO HAPPEN. Why would you feel distressed and pained that we call this torture? You think that it is too mild? should it be worse so that you are not pained? Your statements make absolutely no sense.
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. Some are still in denial - listening to C-Span
this morning, a caller said that Iraq is a BIG country - they will find WMDs.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. And Coronado said
This is a BIG country! But we WILL find the Seven Cities of Cibola!

And Ponce de Leon said, "!It is a BIG country! But we WILL find the Fountain of Youth!"
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July Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. Thanks, I needed that.
I get no comfort from this guy's argument that THEIR torture is EVEN WORSE than OUR torture.

Whenever I hear this, I think of the joke in which someone asks, "Would you sleep with me for a million dollars? Yes? How about half a million?" Down to $100, the person answering says, "What do you think I am, a whore?" Questioner answers, "We've already established you're a whore, now we're just finding your price."

We've already established that the U.S. tortures, now we're just finding out the methods. Other torturers' choices are irrelevant.

(I know the joke is funnier when told properly. Alas, I am not very good at remembering and telling jokes.)
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. If you do not believe Abu Graihb torture was not torture
visualize that "non-torture" happening to someone you love.
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Kenneth ken Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
12. That is a powerful
Edited on Fri Jun-18-04 02:47 AM by Kennethken
indictment and assuming her citations are factually correct, lays out a very strong case for
1. impeaching Mr Bush,
2 after his impeachnnet and removal from office, delivering him to the Hague to stand trial as a war criminal.

Along with the same actions for those in his misadministration who also sanctioned the crimes.

Excellent reporting by Ms. Cohn

thanks.

edit: typos
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
25. Maybe this is Josh Marshall's bombshell
""There are some extremely damaging documents around, which link senior figures to the abuses," according to former New York Bar Association chairman Scott Horton, who is advising dissenters at the Pentagon. He maintains, "The biggest bombs in this case have yet to be dropped."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1805437&mesg_id=1805437
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
26. "It is time to call for the Impeachment of George W. Bush"
Wonderful piece... should be required reading.
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