Does anyone here HONESTLY believe that if Bill Clinton fessed up

[CatWoman]

from the outset, impeachment would have been avoided.

I don't.

And I never will.

To be honest, I don't condemn him for his dalliances with Lewinsky.

THAT WAS HIS BUSINESS.

Just like who I'm kicking it with is MY BUSINESS.

And my kicking has nothing to do with my job performance.

Nothing. Period.

The Republicans were hell bent to get Clinton on something, anything.

If he came right out and said, "Yeah, Monica went down on me a couple times", that snowball wouldn't have stopped there.

He was damned if he did, and damned if he didn't.

[boxster]

1. No. If it wasn't Monica, they would have focused harder on something else.

Or made stuff up. Ok, made MORE stuff up.

People STILL think Bill is evil and Bush is "moral".

What a bunch of morons.

[FloridaPat]

2. Agree with you completely. It's amazing the GOP found

$70 million to investigate anything about Clinton, but couldn't spare more than a couple million to investigate 9-11.

[WLKjr]

54. or find 70 mill for schools

and getting some damn better computer equipment and school books to failing schools....but sex is a better subject to them cuz they get none so they live off the the stories of others.

[theivoryqueen]

3. Nah - they were gunning for him from the start

it would have been one chick or another -grin. Kidding aside, they were prepped to use past testimony of any sort they could get their hooks into to drag him down.

[AndyTiedye]

5. Even When They Have Nothing On Him

they can keep repeating the nothing over and over and over and over and over
and eventually people start to believe it.

Who Owns the News?

[libhill]

8. They had to -

get Clinton out, and Bush in- 9/11 was already in the works, and they had to get a puppet into the W.H., one who could be easily manipulated.

[DenverDem]

24. Zactly..

Also, they needed to keep the Big Dog busy so he didn't investigate busholini inc. for their treason beginning with the October Surprise in '80, through Central America, and Iraq I.

[bluestateguy]

4. They just would have pounced on it and bitched and bitched and bitched

I judge people by who their enemies are and if Newt Gingrich, Dick Armey, Tom DeLay, Ken Starr and other conservative white men are his enemies than he must be doing something right.

[Kimber Scott]

6. They were gunning for him and he handed them some bullets.

Not smart, but I don't hold it against him. Everybody makes mistakes. (Especially, men!) :-)

[libhill]

12. One difference -

Clinton's mistake was personal, and didn't hurt anyone but himself and his family. It did not result in thousands of deaths, both American and Iraqi. How people can still support Bush and the Re pukes, I just don`t know.

[Kimber Scott]

23. Oh, I agree with you 1000%. It was personal.

Why Bush's lies are just flying over RW heads, I don't know. I'm beginning to believe it's sort of like religion. It doesn't really matter what the facts are, just so long as they have faith, their man will see them through - to Armageddon (sp?) - I guess.

It's almost over... November is coming.

[libhill]

28. I just hope that

November gets here before Armageddon. I sometimes think that these wing nuts and repukes would like to help Armageddon along, so they can go meet Jaysus in the sky.

[Kimber Scott]

30. If they want to see him so bad, they should go fight in Iraq!

nt

[Wapsie B]

7. Not me.

They were going to go after him, Monica or not. If it weren't for her it would've been someone else.

[I_like_chicken]

9. well technically

that would have removed the grounds for impeachment, purjory. But who knows, maybe they would have found some other bullshit charge to impeach him on.

[CatWoman]

10. again

they were gunning for him, come hell or high water.

they just would have fed on something else, or used another avenue to stage the set up.

[TheWizardOfMudd]

11. Hell no

People had been out to get Clinton for almost a decade. He was going to be attacked and impeached, come hell or high water.

[kskiska]

13. I remember Orin Hatch coming out

and saying that all he needed to do was come clean with them and the whole thing would be forgotten. I thought at the time, suuuuurrrrre it will.

:hi:

[CatWoman]

16. Hi, Kathy

you do a great job with the "gossip" threads.

I love it!!! :hi:

[kskiska]

41. Thanks, Cat

A little dish now and then never hurts. Especially if it involves a Bush.*
;)

[jerryvov]

48. Orin hatch

I remember Orrin Hatch coming out and saying that all he needed to do was come clean with them and the whole thing would be forgotten. I thought at the time, suuuuurrrrre it will.

Yeah, Orrin, maybe Ma and Pa Kettle back in the hills might swallow that lame bullshit, but nobody with good sense ever believed any of it. Besides, Orin Hatch always looks to me like sombody grafted an android's head on a mannequin's body...and how come his eyes resemble slitted flypaper? I wonder if he was assimilated by the Borg...hmmmm...

[Nlighten1]

14. Poppy Bush screwed around...

Why can't Clinton? During the Iran/Contra hearings it was discovered that Poppy had a girlfriend named Jennifer Fitzgerald. The Democrats response? "It is none of our business".

Which is the way it should have been handled.

[WoodrowFan]

38. moreover

a buddy of mine in the State Department SWEARS that Poppy Bush brought his girlfriend along on state visits, evewn when babs was there as well.

[Nlighten1]

43. He did indeed...

She stayed in another hotel but she did travel with him. Too bad she isn't around to talk to her about it.

[merh]

50. what happened to her? n/t

[Nlighten1]

63. She is dead...

I'm not sure of the circumstances.

[merh]

65. with this bunch, you never know do ya! n/t

[libhill]

75. But the Dems-

were not in the planning process for 9/11. They didn`t have to worry about getting rid of one President, in order to get one in who would do P.N.A.C.s bidding.

[ShaneGR]

15. He still would have been badly damaged but........

He would not have been impeached. Without his lying under oath, they had nothing. The Starr report proved that. Without those lies about that sex they had NOTHING on him. NOTHING. There would have been no impeachment as there would have been no broken laws.

[CatWoman]

18. you truly believe that, don't you?

you're very young, aren't you?

[ShaneGR]

25. Actually, I do believe it, and I am not young

I read the Starr report, the basis for impeachment, from front to back. They spent 6 years and 50 million dollar to come up with ONE actual real crimal charge. Perjury. There is NOTHING in the report proving any other crimes.

Without the perjury. There was no impeachment.

I wouldn't recommend challenging peoples ages, I disagree with you, that doesn't mean I'm stupid or young.

[CatWoman]

26. the only problem with your theory

is that he didn't perjure himself.

[ShaneGR]

29. Sorry....

Lying under oath is perjury. That whole definition of sex thing is a ridiculous legal defense. Here's our disagreement though, you're saying that if the day the allegation came out Clinton had admitted it and apologized he would have still been impeached. I disagree because there would have been no legal definition of sex to argue over in the first place. In order for an impeachment vote to be ordered by the Republican Leadership of the House they have to show one of two things: Dereliction of duty or a criminal offense. The derelection part didn't pass muster, even the impeachment managers admitted that. But they had him on the criminal part, at least for an impeachment trial.

[CatWoman]

32. He was impeached for perjury

among other things, and found not guilty by the Senate.

Unless I missed something.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-clintonperjury.html

[ShaneGR]

33. Uh, yeah

Perjury is a criminal offense.... last time I checked anyways.

[CatWoman]

35. ....

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-clintonperjury.html

[CatWoman]

36. one more time!!!!

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-clintonperjury.html

[ShaneGR]

44. Ok... one more time for you! hehe

Q: Mr. Clinton, did you have sexual relations with Miss Lewinsky.

A: No.

That, unfortunately, was an outright LIE. He knew it was. He knew it was important, because before he took his oath he was told all questions were related to an investigation being held by the Independent Council.

Look, I know it sucks. I know he was a great President. I know the Independent Council was a prick who wasted taxpayer money for a witchhunt. BUT, it doesn't take away the fact that he KNEW they were coming after him and he was still STUPID enough to do that. All he had to do was admit it and the matter was closed.

[CatWoman]

45. reading is fundamental

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-clintonperjury.html

[ShaneGR]

46. Yeah, uh, your point?

He's making a legal argument. It doesn't mean it's correct, it means an argument. I'm not gonna continue this conversation, you want to put up a link.... quote the damn thing. Provide something in there that proves me wrong.

[CatWoman]

47. Point

1 a (1) : an individual detail : ITEM (2) : a distinguishing detail <tact is one of her strong points> b : the most important essential in a discussion or matter <missed the whole point of the joke> c : COGENCY
2 obsolete : physical condition
3 : an end or object to be achieved : PURPOSE <did not see what point there was in continuing the discussion>

my point: http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-clintonperjury.html

[ShaneGR]

69. Hey

LOL, you couldn't find one thing in there proving me wrong. So you linked to it again. Hehe. I win, you lose.

[U4ikLefty]

71. Thanks for the link Cat Woman

BTW, you easily won that debate

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cheswick2.0]

82. You have had your ass handed to you by Catwoman

You have all the evidence to understand the point both Catwoman and I have been making. You are just being stubborn.
You made a bad/wrong point and now you feel obliged to stick by it. Legally Clinton neither lied, commited perjury or was found guilty. You may have some personal reason to be pissed off at Clinton for what you personally feel is a lie. But it is nothing more than your feelings, having nothing to do with fact or law or the legal findings.
Please stop, you have had your ass handed to you by Catwoman. Admit you were wrong and give up.

[ShaneGR]

85. Well...

Sorry... I refuse to have a 15 year olds conversation about the definition of sex. There's a reason it didn't work back then, it was bullshit! I'll stick to my guns on this one as no one has proven otherwise, without the lie there was no impeachment. Simple as that. Now I have handed your ass to you hombre.Moohahahaha

:evilgrin:

[GreenArrow]

89. no she didn't

a lie is a lie. BC lied, period.

[Cheswick2.0]

81. no they didn't have him

That is why the impeachment failed.

The criminal act of making a deliberately false statement while under oath. The false statement must be material to the issue at hand.

The statement was not material because there was no issue at hand. The case was thrown out of court.

[leftynyc]

83. Actually he did but not what he was impeached for

He was impeached for lying under oath to a grand jury - he did no such thing. The definition of sex they gave was ridiculous. He actually did lie in the deposition in the Paula Jones suit - they asked him if he was ever alone with Monica and he said no - clearly a lie. But lying in a civil suit wasn't serious enough for the pukes so they charged him for lying to the grand jury which he didn't. That's why impeachment failed.

[Catherine Vincent]

58. I, like many others, read the Starr report too....

but only the juicy parts. LOL!

[Politicub]

60. I read the juicy parts back then, too

First part that I went to. The Starr report had the effect it did because of the Internet

I think that's what the freakshow Republicans intended. It wasn't Clinton that raised blowjobs to pop culture -- it was the GOP via the Starr report. Then, they were able to bray and be offended that people were :gasp: reading a report from the senate.

It was a good read, though. Damn - I miss the 90's. Good times. The GOP should have gone along for the ride. Think of how much better it could have been.

I worry about what they'll try to do to Kerry, but I'm confident that he anticipates it and can arm himself with an administration that can handle it.

[Cheswick2.0]

79. there was no perjury

Starr tried to say there was perjury but that doesn't make it so.

[Cheswick2.0]

20. he didn't lie under oath

The court said he didn't. In addition he could not be accused of perjury even if he did lie under oath which he did not. Only perjury is illegal, lying under oath is not.
They didn't have anything on him but they didn't need anything on him because they controlled the congress. That is why the impeachment failed...didn't get through the senate.

[CatWoman]

22. This is why no Bush investigations

Because we don't control the senate.

[Cheswick2.0]

that's right

It is very frustrating but people have to understand that fact.

[ShaneGR]

27. Not quite sure where you're coming from...

He settled a possible PERJURY charge by agreeing to pay a large fine and being disbarred from legal practice. Lying under oath is perjury. That is what he did. I don't like it anymore than you do, but the facts are the facts are the facts.

[Cheswick2.0]

61. WRONG.... NO, NOT THE CASE AT ALL

Lying under oath is NOT perjury. Perjury is only when you tell a lie that is material to a ongoing case. The Paula Jones case was dismissed ultimately before he ever settled.

In addition the judge in the case said he did NOT technically/legally lie. They gave a definition of sex and asked him if he had sex with her. According to the definition they gave in the grand jury, oral sex was NOT included, so he said NO and it was the truth.

He settled to finally shut them up. He couldn't take it any more. Do you blame him? PLEASE PLEASE know what you are talking about on this subject. It is bad enough to get misinformation from the right. Stop believing their lies.

So it was not sex and it was not the lie about sex. It was about politics and the only people lying were the right wingers.

[ShaneGR]

77. Sorry...

He lied under oath to officers of the court. Whether or not those officers were pricks (They were) is irrelevant. He still lied and he knew it was relevant to the case.

[Cheswick2.0]

78. wrong

and where did I say anything about them being pricks? What does that have to do with anything. The fact is you don't know what happened and have been brainwashed by the infotainment channels. He did not lie under oath...that is the legal rulling given by the judge.
Please educate your self on this topic. And it was not legally relevant to anything since the case was thrown out of court.
WTF stock do you have in lying about Clinton? Or are you just willfully uninformed?

[leftynyc]

84. I think I remember it's only perjury if it is

pertinent to the case at hand.

[Cheswick2.0]

17. He handled it perfectly

you are absolutely correct.

[Robin Hood]

19. snowball. lol.

It didn't matter what it was. Anything would have gotten him impeached, anything.

[CatWoman]

21. Main Ingredient song keeps coming to mind

"Rolling down the mountain side".

[LiberalForEver]

31. The repukes were out to get him and Hilary

The repukes have to have a number one enemy. Shrub has been so disappointing that the only way he can still be seen as good is to keep telling the world all about Bill & Hilary's evil and tear others down.
:puke:
Their 'evil' makes me sick.

[libhill]

34. "their evil"

is rhetorical, that`s all- truth is, they don`t give a rats ass about good vs. evil, or right vs. wrong. Their only agenda is to concentrate wealth and power in the hands of a very select elite, and to hell with the rest of us. All their other b.s. is just that- for the consumption of "the ignorant masses". "CLINTON GOT A B.J. OH, THE SHAME- WHAT WOULD JAYSUS THINK? VOTE FOR US, SO WE CAN HAVE YOU DOWN IN THE SWEAT SHOP, WORKING FOR SLAVE WAGES, WITH NO HEALTH CARE, NO BENEFITS, AND NO RECOURSE". Oh, yeah- God bless America.

[cmf]

37. Nope.

If it wasn't Monica, it would have been something else. They were waiting for him to trip up, and jumped on it when he did. I hope that people see "The Hunting of the President", but I'm worried that it is going to get buried in the fanfare of F911.

[libhill]

39. What I want to see is -

"The impeaching of the pResident, 2004".

[tigereye]

42. the only downside to his book

is that all of this discussion of the "sex" leading to the impeachment and the late night jokes will start again. It was bad enough to hear it the first time. It bothers me that people's views of him ( in general, not here) are so tainted by the whole pointless sordid mess. Although I agree that the Reps would have found something to goad him with anyway, it was unfortunate that it was this sexual morass. What a waste of time and money.

[Zomby Woof]

40. this time, we agree

In fact, I also don't believe OJ ever had sex with Monica. :o

[spanone]

49. They went on a hunting expedition from the get go.....

whitewater......travelgate.....Foster.....SEVENTY MILLION DOLLARS TO INVESTIGATE CLINTON.

[libhill]

56. I wonder how much of that

ended up in pivate repuke pockets.

[EstimatedProphet]

51. Agreed

They were after Clinton, or whoever would have been in office as a Democrat if Clinton wasn't the nominee.
The Repiglicans developed the belief that they were ENTITLED to the office of President over the ReaganBushI years, that the government and the US BELONGED to them to do with as they see fit, that the Democrats are evil because we are preventting them from their birthright. So many of them in their leadership are so smug, and convinced of their superiority and divinity. Expect this to magnify regardless of November's turnout.

[brook]

52. Couldn't agree with you more.

They were out to get him from the get-go. Some of it, I think, was the same "No Rubes Need Apply" that the, you should excuse the expression - *hoi-poloi* of DC used against Jimmy Carter. I guess once you've slept your way to the top like Sally Quinn, ya really feel the need to pull the ladder up. You'd hate to have another 'commoner' around who could read you like a book. Especially when they didn't worship at your dinner table.

[Cleita]

55. Buwaaaahaaaahaaa!

:hi:

[Cleita]

53. I'm a hundred percent with you CW.

Remember that the independent counsel originally went after him for Whitewater and that other deal that they couldn't find diddly squat on, but then didn't that little thingy with Paula Jones come up then? After that didn't Mrs. Tripp, out Monica, as the behest of Mrs. Goldberg, Jonah's mummy? And we all know that Lucienne, the Hutt, eh Mrs. Goldberg is the doyenne of Lucienne.com.

Anyone know where the Cryptkeeper was then? He wasn't keeping the crypt very well letting them out.

[Catherine Vincent]

57. Cat_girl agrees with Cat Woman....

So what else is new. p.s. so who ARE you kicking it with? I won't tell. ;-)

[Politicub]

59. It wouldn't have mattered

The GOP was out to get him, no matter what.

I'm happy to say though that I just placed an order on amazon for a copy of My Life. I can't wait to read the President's memoir!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

I could use a bit of reminiscing about how much better things were during the Clinton administration.

[Tellurian]

62. Y'all are hung up on the starr rept..

Things could have been a whole lot worse-

Imagine if the were a lil monica or a
little Billy runnin round the countryside..

see what I mean?
Repugs can't do anything right..<sarcasm>

[spooky3]

64. I think he should have said (a) MYOB and (b) I take the fifth.

Yes, he would have paid some political price for these responses but he would not have been as badly hurt as he was.

[Tellurian]

66. Thats the thing about Democrats..

when their credibility or integrity is questioned, they throw all caution to the wind to dispel any inference of impropriety...

I can still remember (Monica's next door neighbor) Dole saying to WJC...
(And if anyone doesn't believe THAT was a set up...)

"you don't have a problem with waiving
your presidential immunity, do you?"

Bush, otoh...would seek to double his, if he could.

[missedherniceguy]

67. I am so over Bill Clinton

The sooner we put him behind us the sooner we get our party back.

[Tellurian]

68. whats to get over?

he's a charismatic, intelligent, human being.
We're indebted to him for taking the time to help us
get rid of Bush. You don't think all this negativity
coming out about Bush, is somehow willy-nilly do you?

[neebob]

72. You think Bill Clinton is doing it?

Why?

[Tellurian]

74. safer to say, Bush enemys are doing it...

and no, there isn't enough bandwidth on this board to list them all.

[Catherine Vincent]

70. Well I'm not over Bill Clinton.

If it wasn't for him, I would still be voting for republicans. I am thankful that Bill Clinton brought me to the Democratic party.

[Bridget Burke]

76. "our" party?

Are we talking about the same Party here?

[Cheswick2.0]

86. The people that need to put Clinton behind them are republicans

They would like us to believe he is some kind of embarrasment to our party and our country. Don't buy into their idiocy. It is all about destroying his legacy.
I HATE the republican party.

[July]

90. I think Clinton will have the last laugh.

And the book is the beginning of his "rehabilitation" in the public's eyes. Remembering his popularity even during impeachment, as well as when he left office, I tend to think that many people saw through what the Republicans were doing, just as many Catholics see through what Bush and the conservative bishops are up to. I think time will be Clinton's friend (though a correction of the wingnut view can't happen soon enough for me).

[Blue_Roses]

80. very well said!

and I agree...they were after him from the get-go. However, even though it was his business, he was careless, 'cause he had to know the rwingers were after him and it has hurt the Dems.

[SoCalDem]

87. Nope.. They wanted a public flogging..and they kept sniffing

until they found a "reason".. Goodness knows... they were persistent :(

[uptown ruler]

88. Not For Second.

friends,

they wanted clinton so bad, nothing he could of done would of helped the situation, save resign, which - thank god - he refused.