Are there still people who DON'T think bushco did 9-11?

[mopaul]

i'm convinced MORE THAN EVER that they did it. and will do it again.

play all the recordings you want, tell all the lies you can, have all the committees you need, but the fact remains, they did it.

[molly]

1. I was always LIHOP - now mostly MIHOP

all the things coming out now are not mere coincidences.

[mopaul]

4. LIHOP let it happen on purpose MIHOP made it happen on purpose

just to clarify, either way, they are just as evil and treasonous

[Heyo]

2. The descent into kookdom....

.. Is a long slope, yet very steep.


Heyo

[mopaul]

7. I guess i'm a kook then

i hope someday you'll join me

[doni_georgia]

28. If you're paying attention - you're a kook

No way you can listen to those tapes and connect the dots and not come out believing either (a) They orchestrated this thing to give them the "new Pearl Harbor" they needed or (b) they let it happen to give them the "new Pearl Harbor." Let's say even if it was just dumb luck that played into their PNAC plans, they still did NOTHING to stop it. How anyone can read the PNAC document and come away believing this was all coincidental is beyond me. There are no coincidences in international politics. This misadministration would have us believe that our government, military, and intelligence were all caught completely off guard, were completely ill prepared, and communications were in total chaos - BULLSHIT! If there was chaos, it was orchestrated. If there was incompetence, it was planned. They war game for these contingencies all the time. They even have contingencies for alien attacks.

[4morewars]

3. YES!!!! But they do believe....

that an invisible man lives in the clouds and will bring them all to heaven, no matter how rotten they are !!!
:wtf:

[molly]

8. They don't believe that it is a person's SOUL

that goes beyond. They base everything on Jesus. I had a conversation a few years ago. This person told me that if you do not believe in Jesus, you are heathen. I asked about the people that live in the rain forest that have never heard anything about such a person - they live in tune with nature and are inherently innocent - what about them? She replied that they would go to hell anyway - Jesus is the only way to get there.

[Bertha Venation]

12. there's a bible verse that they believe backs them up on that, Molly

"I asked about the people that live in the rain forest that have never heard anything about such a person - they live in tune with nature and are inherently innocent - what about them? She replied that they would go to hell anyway - Jesus is the only way to get there."

There's a bible verse that they believe backs them up on that. I don't know it verbatim or where it is in the bible (if you're interested I'll find it). In sum, it says that God has put it in everyone's heart to know the truth of Jesus Christ's redemptive act and to know that accepting it is the only "way to heaven."

:shrug:

[merh]

21. IHMO what they miss is the meaning of that text and

the basic meaning of the writings in Bible, especially the New Testament. The purpose of Jesus' earthly experiences was to demonstrate love, he was love, the epitimy of love, he loved so much that he gave his life not for our "sins" as much to show us a pure example of love. His life and death were examples of love and living in love and loving all. The religious right cannot grasp that Jesus is love, so if the rain forest people live in love then they have Jesus in their heart, thus they will be saved. It is such a simple message and they miss it ever time, bless their hearts.

[Bertha Venation]

24. Yes. They miss it because they have to take it literally.

Because that's how God meant everything in His book, don'tcha know. Literally. :eyes:

[merh]

27. Do you watch West Wing? there was an

episode that I loved where the president asked a right wing, religious fundamentalist about specific phrases in the bible, like evil to touch a pig, then are all the Washington Redskins condemned to death, that sort of thing. It was wonderful. I wish I had a copy of that text, I would love to use it.

Whenever they spout off about the depth of their believes and how it is their duty to spread it to all corners of the earth. I simply point out

1 Corinthians 13:1
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

For a time they stop clanging.

[leftynyc]

37. That was a great episode

He went after a Dr. Laura-type person for saying homosexuals were an abomination and he quoted chapter and verse about things that were considered abominations that people now choose to ignore.

[merh]

40. yeah, I loved it, wish I had that text, boy wish I could

quote it like he did. lol

[Slickriddles]

67. Hebraic law

Most of Bartletts material came from Numbers and Levitticus but it's all spread out. Why in the world would you want to be able to quote the Mosaic Law?? Slick

[merh]

73. It was not just his quotation of the text from the bible, it was

the way he associated it with our times, questioning how it is to be applied today.

I can quote you all the text from the good book that I want, but to be able to do as the writer (Bartlett is a character) did, well that would be fun.

[Slickriddles]

84. Did Ya really think I thought Bartlett was the President at any time

Because if you did something is seriously askew. Sounds as though you don't read much else than the Bible. The Bartlett character has read the Bible as one of many, many important books.

[merh]

99. I was complimenting the writer and admitting to my limited ability

to create pose as the writer did. I have read plenty of books and I continue to do so. I don't know where you get off saying that "sounds as though you don't read much else than the Bible." That's a goofy statement to be made about my posting.

[Slickriddles]

104. I'm sorry.

[merh]

122. It's okay, don't worry about it (n/t)

[Slickriddles]

86. West Wing Websites

merh, if you Google west wing there are several good sites with all the info on episodes etc. And DVDs are coming out now with the whole first and second seasons. Slick

Ps Sorry if I got snide downthread, I was just startled that you thought you had to explain that Bartlett was a Character.

[Hippo_Tron]

94. I remember that episode...

Actually Mr. President, it's Alaskan crab.

[Retired AF Dem]

5. What is out there that convinced you?

Where is this overwhelming proof. Bush is a dickweed but I don't think he would of done this. And if it did come out he did I will be the first in line with the rope.

[mopaul]

6. oh I don't know, a lot of evidence i guess

maybe i'm just DELUSIONAL

[doni_georgia]

29. PNAC document convinced me

http://www.newamericancentury.org/publicationsreports.htm

Click on Rebuilding America's Defenses
Then click alt f and type in Pearl Harbor

[nodehopper]

107. the proof is here

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline


This is not conspiracy theories or even editorials, just links to various media sources from the early 90s until 2001.
I would pay particular attention to June-September 2001 chronology and the 9/11 minute-by-minute.
This is what convinced me.
It's a lot to read, I know. Hope you are not afraid of some homework.

[John_H]

9. You're letting it all get to you, pardner.

Hit the beach for a couple of days. America needs a calm, steady mopaul going into November.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

10. yes you are delusional

how could anyone benefit more turmoil/unrest in the middle east possibly adding flames to a the fire of anti-american sentiment thus creating more "terrorists" which in turn could cause americans to feel more threatened than ever? who could ever benefit from that? i mean sure large corporations with close ties to this administration are drumming up a lot of business in iraq with no bid contracts, but hey, that is just a coincidence right?

ahh, the business of providing freedom.

[Carl Brennan]

30. That's funny. Gotta laugh at this.

[leesa]

71. TeeHee. How could anyone benefit?? Kaaaaching! baby

There's been LOT'S of benefiting going on!!

[Bertha Venation]

11. A homeowner near where I live displays a sign:

"BUSH ZIONIST CABAL STAGED 9/11"

I've always wondered exactly what that means.

[molly]

14. I know - at least I think I know

these people are anti-Semitic. Didn't you know that Jews are behind everthing? Do these people wear brown shirts and have shaved heads?

[catzies]

45. Well, for the fundies to bring on the rapture Israel has to exist

as some sort of a precondition. I'm the first to admit I don't grasp Zionism, but fundamentalist Christian American theocracy needs it as a precondition for what they want.

[AG78]

13. If people only remember...

one quote in their life, let it be this one.

Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastophic and catalyzing event- like a new pearl harbor.

Whether they let it happen, or made it happen, I don't know. But they damn sure didn't mind that it happened.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

15. Middle America will need to see the "smoking gun"...

...see it, smell it, touch it, taste it, fondle it, and they will STILL believe that Bush is not only protecting them, but he deserves a second term as well.

If you lock a monkey in a room full of bananas, one or more bananas will get eaten, because monkeys like bananas.

"Just because." It's not about "right" or "wrong" or "getting caught," For a monkey, all that matters is what they want.

It doesn't MATTER if Bush's administration planned it, because they're gonna get away with it if they did.

"Just because."

The 9-11 Commission will continue to uncover evidence and connect the dots and each time they reveal something new, Bush and / or Cheney will appear before the cameras and invite the press to blow them.

Maybe they WILL do it again (if, in fact, they did it the first time), and Bush can grab the bullhorn and stand on the rubble and yell "Bring It On" to the evildoers. America loves a good sequel.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that even if Bush doesn't get a second term, he will walk away with all of this without a scratch. So will Cheney. Ashcroft and Rummy may get thrown on the sacrificial altar. Wolfie is on the Highway To Hell...no one's gonna lay a finger on him.

But for Dubya and Evil Dick, it's thick, juicy steaks...big, icy tumblers of Scotch...lap dances until dawn...and big ol' Texas-sized "fuck you" to the 'murcan people.

If I'm wrong, I'll be the first one to come back here and admit it.

[Mandate My Ass]

16. Great post and ROFL when you said

But for Dubya and Evil Dick, it's thick, juicy steaks...big, icy tumblers of Scotch...lap dances until dawn...and big ol' Texas-sized "fuck you" to the 'murcan people.

I may have to make that my new sig line.:toast:

[DenverDem]

17. You are not wrong.

It's the willfully ignorant, cowardly, living in denial sheeple that can't handle the truth that are wrong.

[dr.strangelove]

18. I have NO DOUBT that Bush had nothing to do with 9/11

except being the idiot he is and not following up on clear threats. I think you are wrong if you believe Bush planned or in any way wanted 9/11 to happen. Bush is a racist, a homophobe and a pretty stupid person, but he did not want any innocent Americans to die on 9/11. While I believe he would get involved in a conspiracy to harm those who politically oppose him, I do not believe he would want to harm innocent americans who support him ideologically and politically.
Sorry, but thats just how I feel.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

19. How about Cheney (the power behind the throne)? n/t

[dr.strangelove]

23. By Bush I mean the administration

I understand some people in the forum believe Bush is an evil man who would torture innocent children if it meant he would win the election. I don't buy it.

Bush is a republican. While I don't agree that all republicans are bad people, I believe Bush supports all the bad parts of the republican platform. He has warped economical ideas about shifting the burden of running the country from those that both can afford it and have the most assests to protect, to those that can't aford it and have nothing. He believes the Christian right should dictiate governmental policy. He is against homosexuals' right to exist, let alone marry. He is against a woman's inborn right to make her own medical decisions about her body. He is in favor of allowing the rich to get richer off the sweat of middle class workers, but is against allowing middle class workers to unionize and collectively bargain as a powerful group. He believes doctor's should be immune from lawsuits when they fuck up a patient's life. He believes a pot smoker should get more jail time then a rapist. He can't talk, spell or remember someone's name. He casually sends the middle and lower class children off to war even though he ducked war in the national guard (which I doubt he showed up for).

All these things make Bush a very bad person to lead this country. Again, TO LEAD THIS COUNTRY. I have seen ZERO evidence that Bush is an evil person who would want innocent people to die a painful burning death in a terrorist attack.

Conspiracy theories will not help us retake the white house. If you can show me evidence that Bush, or his administration (which included Remmuy, Dick, Rice and the rest) would make the choice to have innocent americans die just to enhance their individual political futures, I'd like to see it and review it.

In the mean time, I plan to vote for Kerry because he is a much better person to lead the USA.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

26. No one's talking about "conspiracy theories".

You said Bush would not do something like that. I asked if you thought Cheney would. You didn't say Bush administration. As far as evidence. I've seen a lot of things that raise even more questions about what happened and the way it's been handled. But I don't know where I stand yet. It would be very easy to say they either participated or were taken completely by surprise. I myself can't state either scenario with certainty. I don't think anyone can. They do not help themselves by acting the way they have. Whether it is by obstruction of the commission and just plain old lying about everything else.

The way they've covered the Saudis ass is specially troubling for me. That doesn't mean they knew about it. But at the same time I don't subscribe to coincidence theories until I see credible evidence supporting them. The truth is probably somewhere in between. I do think that people, no matter who it is, are capable of anything. I mean who knows? Maybe it was just plain old massive incompetence.

[dr.strangelove]

50. Bush is BAD and must be stopped - But we must be careful

I am sorry for not being clear initially that Bush meant his whole administration. On the whole, I believe a President is responsible for his whole administration, unless an individual commits a criminal act or something that the executive could not have predicted.

I also think I may have directed some harsh feelings at you without realizing it. I am troubled by some DUers who appear to be trying to convince others that Bush and Co. somehow planned or wanted 9/11 to happen. I lost several people on 9/11, including my closest friend, an aunt, a cousin and several other friends. I grew up in Staten Island, and many of my friends and relatives working the the WTC and got out. Some did not.

It angers me that Bush has sought to use the deaths of my friends to aid in his elecetion, but it angers me just has much to see a Dem try to accomplish the same goal.

I try to act and think logically. When preparing for a trial (lawyer), I have to investigate all possibilities to present to the jury and see what will tell the best story to the jury. I support anyone trying to research and investigate the reasonably possible causes of 9/11. In an investigation, leads often turn into dead ends, or spark new leads. One cannot possibly investigate every possibility. There are 300 million people in the US every day that could have had something to do with planning 9/11. However, we would only investigate someone if a lead suggests they were involved. I have decided to read every draft report, every story that I can get my hands on. I went to the three days of testimony in NYC and follow the hearings every day. I may have missed some evidence, but I don't think I have. I have seen nothing that even suggests Bush was responsible for, or knew about, 9/11. I have seen nothing to suggest Bush wanted 9/11 to happen. I have seen nothing to even lead me down that road.

While I appreciate that you have not made up your mind yet, you certainly do not appear to be suggesting evidence supports that Bush planned, desired or is glad that 9/11 took place. While you do not appear to have made up your mind yet, I have on this issue. I believe I can state with the degree of certainty necessary to make major life choices feel that Bush did not plan or desire 9/11.

My comments have never supported the deplorable manner Bush has handled the investigation of 9/11. He has obstructed the commission at every angle. I too am troubled by the way Bush has protected his oil partners in the Saudi government and elite.

However, I am more troubled by the piss poor job Bush has done governing our nation. He has lead us to the economic basement and a deficit that will take another 20 years to fix. The rich grow richer, gas prices soar and minimum wage workers have not gotten a raise since Clinton was in office.
Voting him out is necessary to save the country.

The reason I am angry and that I hope we can nip this conspiracy theory in the bud is as follows: If we impress upon the moderate and independent voters that the democrats on the whole believe Bush wanted or planned 9/11 I believe it will anger people and turn them against either voting at all, or against voting for Kerry. This election will be so close that we need every vote in the battleground states. We can't afford ot lose any by pissing people off by supporting a theory with zero evidence.

Please continue the investigation. Follow the commission. I believe Joe Biden is capable of finding out if Bush was responsible for 9/11. I have tremendous faith in Biden to ensure that Bush did not plan or assit in 9/11 and that he had no prior tip that it was coming. If this changes, I will review his evidence and act accordingly.

I also do not believe that any person is capable of any thing. I believe there are people who could not ever kill someone, even if their own life was on the line. I believe there are things I could never do.
I believe Bush is an idiot, subcribes to bad policies at home and abroad, and will ruin this country. I do not believe he had anything to do with planning 9/11 or had any prior warning of it. While I do not know him personally and can not tell is he is capable of killing innocent people to further his political goals, I have seen no evidence to suggest otherwise.

I am sorry for directing my concerns at you. I did not intend to do so.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

68. I understand what you're saying.

Needless to say. You have been through a lot personally when it comes to this event. Many of us can't even begin to understand your experience. I guess my cynicism has gotten the best of me. In my opinion people like Rumsfeld and Cheney and others in the bush misadministration have that sort of psychotic Old Germany quality about them. Of course that doesn't mean what has been implied by many. But nevertheless you seem to approach this very rationally. I think that is the prudent course to take.

I do hope that many of our questions can be answered in the not too distant future. I guess I should rephrase and say that certain people are capable of anything as history has shown. But of course that does not make for a case of premeditated mass murder.

[dr.strangelove]

77. Thank you for the kind words

9/11 hit many familes hard. I find myself trying to suppress urges to nuke the entire middle east. I think those are natural urges when faced with the killings of those close to you. I am a lifelong opponent of the death penalty, however I find myself considering if for Bin Laden and those that planned 9/11. Its a difficult subject ofr me on a personal level and is why I should not be on a jury deciding the guilt/innocence or punishment of any terrorist in connection with 9/11. I realize that there are monsters in the world, and those monsters must be brought to justice.

While I believe GeorgeBush will be remembered by history as one of the worst presidents, I do not beleive it will be because he planned the murders of 3000 people in a terrorist attack, or that he let the attack happen. His fault lies in ignoring th eadvice of Dick Clark and Clinton's leaving staffers that warned of the huge risk terror posed to the US. Bush was too worried about his tax cuts and his theory of trickle down wealth.

I agree that Rumsfeld and Cheney have a psychotic Old Germany feel to them, probably more Bismarc than Hitler, but scary nonetheless. There are questions to be answered. But rather than use this investigation time to point the finger at George for taking an active roel in 9/11, I'd rather highlight his complete failure as a president, his lack of compassion as a human being and his poor leadership skills. We need John Kerry to turn around the sorry state Bush has left us in.

I have really enjoyed our exchange of ideas here. This is what DU is all about. I think in the end we will both be happy and Bush will be a memory we try hard to forget.

[Flubadubya]

98. I have a sincere question for you...

If the Bush administration has no qualms whatsoever about allowing some 900+ Americans die (so far) in Iraq to further their PNAC agenda, why is it so hard to imagine that they could not be so callous as to allow people to die in a catastrophic terrorist attack, knowing full well that it would be the single, most important, catalytic event that would absolutely propel their political agenda into full realization?

I'm sorry, I do not have the trust and faith that either Cheney or Bush are beyond such a contemptible and heinous act. In fact I believe they are quite capable of such. Anyone who would willfully mock the impending death of another human being, and over whose life or death the mocker has direct control (i.e. the execution of Karla Faye Tucker by George W. Bush), is, in my book, capable of great coldness, even to the point of willfully and knowingly allowing a terrorist strike on this country to suit a very grand geopolitical goal.

Perhaps you don't perceive Mr. Bush as a true sociopath, but you might want to examine that possibility a little more aggressively. You may be stunned at what you find, but you may be less inclined at that point to give him much benefit of doubt.

Now, that is just MHO.

[Selwynn]

118. Extremely well said! (nt)

[mopaul]

34. you don't have to apologize for how you feel

i respect your opinion. and you stated it without insults, which i appreciate. whoever, whatever, however, i don't have the answers, i admit it.

[formernaderite]

44. I concur...so I better find my tinfoil hat....

...then I can blame everything that goes wrong on the world on one simpleton sitting in the oval office.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

63. You're welcome to "feel" any way that you want...

...but if you "feel" that Junior has ANY feelings whatsoever for the American people, you would be VERY wrong. You do understand that the financial rewards for Junior and all of his NeoCon buddies would have been huge had they been able to pull off grabbing all of the oil in the Middle East, don't you?

Junior would kill his own mother to accomplish that.

Sorry, but that's just how I feel.

[dr.strangelove]

65. Feel how you want - but would be VERY WRONG

If you feel that bush does not genuinely believe he is doign what is in teh best interests of this country, you are wrong.

Bush is a Republican. We need to oust him from office because his policies will bankrupt the country and turn the rest of the world against us. You're statement suggests that Bush would kill someone for money. I think you are wrong and I believe your possition is one of the biggest obstacles we dems face in taking back the nation (by which I mean wining the whitehouse, a majority of governorships and both houses of Congress).

Bush wants to grab oil for his NeoCon buddies because he is a republican. He actually believes that giving massive amounts of tax free income to the richest 2% of this country will in turn make the country stronger and make all our lives easier.
It is this republican idea that must be stopped. It is insane to think that helping the rich will in turn help the middle and lower classes. His tax cuts must be undone, our former foreign friends must be attended to and we must create jobs for the middle and lower class.

I have never seen any evidence that Bush has or would kill someone for money, and if you have, please let me, and the FBI know.

This angle is only going to hurt the party. Because ther is no evidence of Bush's attempts to kill people for cash, but there are truckloads of evidene of his failures in econimic, social and foreign policies, lets try to focus attention on the areas that will get him ousted.

I understand the financial rewards for Bush and his buddies if they been able to pull off grabbing all of the oil in the Middle East. I understand that Bush and his buddies were rich under Clinton, and will be rich whoever is the next President. I understand they don;t have to kill people to be rich. They are rich. Now lets tax them, and stop making ridiculous allegations that they planned 9/11 unless you have the evidence to support it.

I am sayign this because I believe it is in the best interests of the party. I thought we were all here because we support liberal democratic ideals and generally want to Democratic Party to win elections. I think changing your attack on Bush and Company from allegations of murder, and that they will commit murders for money, (absent evidence that this has taken place) and moving towards attcking the insanity of his economic, environmental and other social policies, the war and his failures with foreign nations, will help the party in the long run.

FYI, I don't think Bush would kill his own mother for profit. His policies will result in all of us dieing without Social Security to aid us in our retirement, but I don;t see Bush executing senior citizens to lien his own pocket.

Sorry, but that's just how I feel

[alarcojon]

74. Well put

and I agree with you. I can't buy LIHOP or MIHOP without more evidence. My mind, as with all things, is open, but for now I can't buy into it. Two further comments:

1. Either LIHOP or MIHOP requires us to believe that Bush was willing to kill probably tens of thousands of people, most of them Americans, including workers at the Pentagon. He is a horrid president and generally repugnant as a human being, and Cheney is even more repugnant. But it is quite a leap to accuse them of mass murder on such a scale without more evidence. Yes, there are many unanswered questions, and I thank my fellow DUers for raising many of them and looking into them. However, unanswered questions do not meet my threshhold at this time.

2. We need to keep our perspective on this matter and its political ramifications. Unless and until a "smoking gun" emerges, LIHOP or MIHOP are very unlikely to gain converts among the undecided, and are quite easy for the right to use to caricature the left. I am not arguing against discussing this stuff on DU - just for keeping it to the facts when we're out in the general public. For example, it's great that Michael Moore shows footage of Bush looking like a stunned idiot at the Booker school on 9/11. It speaks for itself to his incompetence. His incompetence has got to be enough to get his ass out of office in November.

[LoZoccolo]

20. See the new thread, same as the old thread...

...only I remember towards the end of the old one it ended up with a lot of "I believe" and someone else was saying that the reason that they believed in LIHOP was not based on evidence, but on the idea that if enough people pretended they really believed in it then there'd be more investigations. But this one is still just a hurrah-fest in lieu of evidence (again).

I don't subscribe to the LIHOP religion.

[DenverDem]

31. So, who stood down NORAD?

Answer that one.

[LoZoccolo]

33. Your mama.

Next.

[DenverDem]

39. Very convincing.

Not.

[LoZoccolo]

43. Can you explain the picture of your mama standing down NORAD?

Explain that to me.

Go do some research all over the Internet and find it before you dismiss it.

[LoZoccolo]

41. Plus this is a lame tinfoil hat tactic.

Question anything and you get sent on a wild goose chase tracking down some obscure thing that may be half-ass established to begin with. Plus you get it thrown at you, not explained to you, because the purpose is to intimidate someone into submitting to someone else's conspiracy theory rather than to promote it. If you really wanted me to know, you'd probably expound on this bit of information and how it fits into the conspiracy theory rather than try to make me look stupid for not knowing anything about it.

Anyways, I myself was personally fingered as a player in one of your conspiracy theories before (knowing full well that I wasn't - problem with accusing someone of something like that is that they're the first to know it's bullshit), so your credibility is low to begin with.

[DenverDem]

46. But you know enough to say unequivocably there was no conspiracy.

So why can't you answer the simple question of why the most powerful air defense in the history of the world could allow this to happen, without command and control complicity?

[LoZoccolo]

48. I don't know.

Which should be your answer as well.

[LoZoccolo]

49. Plus, who's to say they didn't not intercept to save more lives.

Shooting down a jet over civilian airspace could very well cause more loss of life than letting it hit the target. A hard decision to make, for sure, but so is intercepting it to begin with.

Anyways, they're going over all that now, but it doesn't matter, because whoever wants to not believe it is not going to anyways.

[DenverDem]

51. The 9/11 commission says that.

No scramble order was given until the last plane had crashed.

[LoZoccolo]

52. OK.

And what did they say about why?

[DenverDem]

55. Because

the DOD, in June 2001, had changed the operational directive to take away the power of base commanders to scramble defensive attacks and put the total power in the hands of the Secretary of Defense. The order was delayed until the action was over.

[LoZoccolo]

57. I'd have to read it myself.

From a non-conspiracy website; as in, the transcript itself.

Still doesn't really prove anything though.

Miller: A lot of people don't realize what's reallygoing on. They view life as a bunch of unconnected incidences and things. They don't realize that there's this like lattice of coincidence that layers on top of everything. Give you an example, I'll show you what I mean. Suppose you thinking about a plate of shrimp. Suddenly somebody will say like plate or shrimp or plate of shrimp out of the blue no explanation. No point for looking for one either. It's all part of a cosmic unconsciousness.
Otto: You eat a lot of acid, Miller, back in the hippie days?
(from the motion picture Repo Man)

[DenverDem]

58. I would suggest you do that.

What it does prove is that Rumsfeld had the power to scramble NORAD and did not do it.

[LoZoccolo]

61. I agree completely.

But you make a leap into OP.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

64. Sometimes the most effective orders are the ones NOT given....

...like NOT releasing the interceptors as soon as it was obvious that UA 11 was hijacked at 8:13am (they were finally released from Otis ANG Base at 8:46am and didn't get off the ground until 8:52am). And NOT releasing more than five interceptors (two from Otis ANG Base and three from Langley AFB). And NOT ordering interceptors to fly from bases MUCH closer to the action (Otis is 130 miles east of NYC, and Langley is 130 miles south-southeast of Washington, DC).

Oh, that's right...Rummy couldn't be found to give any of those orders. He was "lost" in the Pentagon for 45 minutes.

And Junior was still reading that book to the second graders in Sarasota, FL, even after Andy Card told him about the second plane hitting the WTC.

And Cheney was in an "undisclosed location" reading his PNAC Action Manual with his special decoder ring.

[nolabels]

116. Hey, I want one of those special decoder rings too!

http://www.artczar.org/shadow/

I am big boy now and my daddy said it would be okay :cry:

[alarcojon]

75. Beautifully put

I have wanted to say something like this before, but have, to be honest, felt intimidated by the LIHOP/MIHOPers. Yes, that's ultimately my shortcoming, but I want to thank you nonetheless for shedding light on this tactic.

Why is the burden of proof on those who call for more evidence? Why are we assumed to be uninformed, gullible idiots?

[nodehopper]

108. Obscure?

Everyone who is not afraid of a little homework should check this out.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline
esp. the june-sep. of 2001 chronology and minute-by-minute of 9/11.

No tinfoils, no editorials, just chronological links to news sources that have since been "forgotten."

[SmokingJacket]

22. Don't know. I've done a lot of research, still not sure.

I'm certainly willing to believe it's possible. I mean, **of course** it's possible. Look at the atrocities committed by governments in the last hundred years. This is not all that different.

But I guess I need a better grasp of the facts. For instance: World Trade Center 7. What happened there?? To me, and I'm no building engineer, it seems really bizarre that it just collapsed. But surely people who are more intimate with the situation would say something if that were the case. Right?

Why was the hole in the Pentagon so small? Why was there just a little plane debris on the lawn, and no pictures of it going in? There might be a good explanation, but I haven't heard it yet. Is that because I haven't read any websites defending the official explanations?

I guess I'm willing to believe that the conspiracy theorists might be working harder to defend their theories than everyone else. I just can't call it yet.

I do think that if Kerry wins, a lot of this will become clearer.

[molly]

36. Here's some help - this was posted last week

I copied it into my email and sent it on to many people - hope it helps.....and... Thanks to the poster!

The Explosion of the 9-11 Truth Movement -- U.S. Media's Dirty Little Secret

by Bill Douglas, Co-Founder - "National 911Visibility.org"

A mass movement and a mountain of disturbing evidence has been growing beneath the radar of U.S. media. The U.S. media (including alternative media) has done an extraordinarily superhuman job of "hearing" "seeing" and "speaking no evil." However, almost immediately after 9-11-2001's horrendous attacks on New York and Washington D.C., many researchers, ordinary citizens, and journalists began to smell something rotten . . . not in Denmark . . . but rather, right here in the good ol' US of A.

This movement's early roots began when many people scratched their heads in wonder at "how 4 commercial jet liners could fly hijacked for nearly an hour and a half the morning of 9-11, without any Air Force fighter interceptor jets turning a wheel until it was too late," as stated by acclaimed Canadian TV journalist, Barry Zwicker. Zwicker's powerful documentary "The Great Deception," which suggests top Bush Admin. officials were likely complicit in the 9-11 attacks, aired on Canada's Vision TV network which is viewed by millions of Canadians. Unfortunately Americans in the U.S. have been "protected" from viewing this critical documentary.

Researchers, like Zwicker and others, quickly learned that in 2001 before the 9-11 attacks 62 aircraft had been intercepted by Air Force fighter interceptor jets, and usually within 10 to 15 minutes of going off course. <http://septembereleventh.org/airdefense.php >

READ FULL ARTICLE:
http://www.newtopiamagazine.net/content/issue17/oped/911.php

[nodehopper]

110. I don't know if you already know this website

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline

Very helpful.

[leftofthedial]

25. was LIHOP by noon on 9-11

now MIHOP

[RBHam]

32. It's easier not to think

[FormerOstrich]

102. lol.....yes, I remember the old days...... n/t

[Sabriel]

35. Yes, my parents

Moreover, they keep telling me to "get over it," which is also what they say about the 2002 Selection. (I haven't "gotten over it."

[Orangepeel]

38. I don't

I don't believe everything the government tells me -- especially this government, and there are a lot of questions about what happened that day. But I wouldn't believe "bushco did it" unless I could see hard evidence, not just a bunch of unanswered questions.

It is true that I've never seen hard evidence that Al Qaida did it, either. But others have, including the UN and the Senate. I don't believe everything they say, either. But, there are countries (like France and Germany) and Senators (like Bob Graham and Paul Wellstone) who were supportive of the attack on Afghanistan (because there was evidence) and not supportive of the attack on Iraq (because there wasn't).

In addition, if "bushco did it" they wouldn't have been caught so flatfooted afterward. They would have had a speech written and a plan of action for what dubya would do instead of sitting in the school and they bunnyhopping across the country.

I do think that they were too occupied with Iraq before the attack to pay any attention to Al Qaida. I think they tried to cover up their lack of concern and general incompetence afterward and pretend that they DID know what they were doing. I also think they milked it for all it was worth in order to ram through their extremist agenda afterward.

But I don't think "bushco did it."

[WilliamPitt]

42. MIHOP? Not me.

LIHOP? Me.

[mopaul]

47. and you could be right

i admit i sure don't know for sure for sure. even if they let it happen, which the evidence indicates, and didn't bother to even warn new york, that's a pretty damn awful thing to do to your own citizens. might call it treason even. in my head, it's just as bad in every way as if they had made it happen.

let it, or made it, either way it's seriously fucked up.

i hope we can solve it someday. i think someone is trying to prevent that. i hope that people like you will help people like us.
you personally. keep digging. we appreciate your efforts.

[DenverDem]

60. So

Rumsfeld's complicity in not scrambling NORAD does not rise to the level of MIHOP?

It get's pretty grey and semantic at that point.

[Q]

53. I can understand Americans not believing in LIHOP...

...but it's disturbing that they're not very concerned about orchestrated COVERUP.

- Why did Bush* and Cheney try to obstruct ANY independent investigations into 9-11? Why is the 9-11 commission doing their best to avoid scutiny of the many inconsistencies and unanswered questions?

- The troubling thing is that this is just ONE of the many Bush* WH scandals that have been covered up by both parties and their state media. The truth will never be known.

[mopaul]

54. JFK's murder, 40 years later, although officially solved, is a mystery

and in most folk's minds', they believe the official story, and the commission reports. but it's still talked about to this day as a conspiracy and coverup that only some believe. and some don't.

go figger

[catzies]

59. And what do both 9/11 and 11/22/63 have in common?

Poppy.

That man scares the living holy bejeezus fuck out of me. He spent the night of 9/10 at the White House and was canoodling with Dick Cheney the next morning when * was in Florida for his plausible deniability reading a book about a goat.


eidt: clarity & spelling

[Delano]

56. I've yet to be convinced either way

They are evil enough, and capable enough, but sorry, not enough proof.

[Warren DeMontague]

62. Here's what I think...

I've been on a long, slow descent down the rabbit hole on this one.
Like most Americans, I want to believe my government is at least marginally decent and (relatively) honest, and certainly not capable of something like this.
However, I think their behavior since then has been so down-right creepy, that I am forced to question everything in retrospect regarding the motives and causes of their actions, particularly in regard to Iraq.
The fact that they have such long-standing business ties with shady Saudis, who seem to be behind much of the real terrorism, gives me pause.
The fact that they have all- the military industrial complex, the oil industry, all of 'em- stood to benefit substantially from the creation of an open-ended "war" with a nebulous, scary "enemy" that will require indefinite funding gives me pause.
The fact that they (the administration) have dragged their heels, acted like they have something, lots of things, in fact, to hide, and wanted to keep large amounts of information classified, gives me pause.
The fact that they are going after people who aren't involved or only marginally involved with "terrorism", and using that as the context to violate every law of man, god, the constitution, and every international treaty or convention regarding human rights.. while simulaneously ignoring or releasing (Marabh?) or squelching investigations into people who are actual, verified, terrorists- yeah, that gives me pause.
The fact that you've got the most technologically advanced nation on the face of the earth coming up with excuses like "the president's cell phone didn't work".. and "we just didn't imagine this could happen" (when they were running an exercise that very day- strangely enough- about hijacked airplanes being flown into buildings) gives me pause..
The fact that an FAA supervisor not only destroyed the tape of the interviews with the controllers, but felt the need to cut it up into tiny bits and then distribute the bits into several different wastebaskets... Hmmm..
The Fact that "the terrorists" have gone from being on the CIA/Reagan's Paytoll to, now, the Saudi payroll (via Riggs bank?) ...gives me more than a little pause.



It's certainly easier to believe the official story. It's hella easier to believe Oswald acted alone, too. Well, maybe not "easier"- not once you start to really look at the facts- but certainly more comforting.

You know, on 9-11 one of the first things I did, after I got past the initial shock, was throw a videotape in the VCR- since I knew I was seeing something that was obviously major bad history. Recently, I dug the tape out and looked at it, for the first time in a long time. Not more than an hour or so into the attacks, one of the news channels- MSNBC, maybe? Had a phone interview with None other than James Baker III. I seem to remember it creeping me out then, but it really creeped me out to listen to it now, with the doubts I have around this whole deal.. He sounded cold, almost clammy, not agitated or worked up at all. The stuff he said sounded, almost, like it had been prepared in advance- and I say that because it just rolled off his tongue without it sounding like he needed to think about it too much at all. So, What was the first thing out of James Baker's mouth, essentially?

"Well, I think the American People are going to need to we're in a new situation, and especially realize that they're just going to have to give up some civil liberties"

Creepy as shit.

[TeeYiYi]

89. I wish I would have recorded it . . .

. . . there are a lot of things that I remember that have changed or disappeared over time. I knew when I was watching it all unfold that history was being made and that eventually, a lot of it would be edited out. Little did I know at the time how frighteningly accurate that consideration was. :(

One thing that struck me at the time was that the Today Show kept their cameras trained on the towers non stop. It was as though we were all waiting for them to collapse or something.

TYY

[mzmolly]

66. I really don't think they're smart enough to plan it, but I think they

*allowed* it to happen deliberately.

[kirkm76]

69. Umm, yeah

I think that muslim extremists did 9-11.

[TexasSissy]

70. I don't think they did it. But they enabled it's happening.

Through negligence and ineptness.

[paulk]

72. I've never believed in MIHOP

I used to lean toward LIHOP.

Now, the more I watch and read from the 9/11 commission and books like Richard Clarkes', I've started to believe in LIHTCI. Let It Happen Through Complete Incompetence. Which doesn't exactly roll of the tongue, I admit.

Look, you can't have it both ways. Is Bush a moron, like in your tagline, or is he a genius capable of pulling off something like MIHOP?


I go for the former.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

96. Let It Happen Through Complete Incompetence?

How about DIFFAP?
(Did It For Fun and Profit?)

Personally I think that LIHOP is weak and well below the proven abilities of the adherents of PNAC, and that MIHOP does not go far enough.

[Carson]

76. No, I don't believe

Bush purposefully caused 9/11. If Bush were *that* despicable of a person, *that* underhanded (I'm not saying he isn't despicable or underhanded, just not to that degree), why hasn't he simply planted some WMDs in Iraq to boost his cause? He has the power to do that. Why hasn't he?

He'd kill 3000 innocent civilians to get a war started but wouldn't do a better job of framing Hussein? Logically, it makes no sense to me.

IMHO, I think the prevalence and penchant for conspiracy theories makes us look like kooks.

[alarcojon]

80. Welcome to DU, Carson

eom

[mopaul]

83. Us?

[Hippo_Tron]

91. Welcome to DU, Your logic makes sense BUT...

Remember that if Bush did LIHOP/MIHOP he would be protected from it because it would be dismissed and nobody would believe it. Planting fake WMD's would be something that the American public would actaully believe if there was evidence.

My dad used the same kind of logic for the theory that they already have Bin Laden. If they couldn't keep the abuses at Abu Greib a secret, then there's no way that they could keep Bin Laden's capture a secret.

[Hippo_Tron]

92. Dupe n/t

[Zolok]

78. Don't believe they had anything to do with it...

however ineptitude and blind self satisfaction certainly played a part in the plot not being stopped in time.

Sorry but I am of the old fashioned opinion that paranoia is a mental illness and not a form of superhuman rationality.

www.chimesatmidnight.blogspot.com

[Carson]

79. LOL

...the old fashioned opinion that paranoia is a mental illness and not a form of superhuman rationality.

Well said. I'm going to have to jot that one down.

[Q]

81. Those who believe in 'coincidence theories'...

...are really the reason Bush* still has unlimited powers to destroy our country and the world. Bush* and his PNAC buddies said they needed another 'Pearl Harbor' and wanted to invade Iraq BEFORE 9-11. Coincidence? Some think so. Others are a bit more cynical since Bush* is a pathological liar and his staff is comprised of current and former criminals.

- Even IF you believe that it was just an amazing series of coincidences...the Bushies have used 9-11 to wage a war against anyone that disagrees with them and are guilty of treason (covering up the Saudi connection) and war profiteering.

[Zolok]

82. Okay I understand...

it is MY FAULT Bush invaded Iraq....right.
I did nothing, he did everything, therefore I am culpable.
:)
www.chimesatmidnight.blogspot.com

[Oddman]

85. I don't believe he did 9/11

but he is responsible for ignoring the threats and for killing 16,500 Iraqis and 850 American soldiers and for allowing poisons to spill into our air killing thousands more Americans than 9/11 ever did. bush is an environmental terrorist. Blood is on his hands.


Cripes . . .I can’t even spell Preserdent . . .

[durutti]

87. I don't.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[Hippo_Tron]

88. I won't believe LIHOP/MIHOP and I won't dismiss it

My gut tells me that there is definately more to this than meets the eye and there is evidence both ways. I won't completely accept it because it can't be proven. Likewise, I won't dismiss it because it can't be disproven. Regardless, I know that Bush is the worst president in history and that's all I need.

[Rex]

90. It's a hard concept for a lot of people to believe in, for good reason.

It would perhaps be the first time that the President of the United States put his charges (us) in harms way, to profit or help business partners profit from an escalation of hostilities in the Middle East.

Of course we have to remember that George Bush Jr. was never elected to office, so that to is a precedent. This also is a hard concept for some people to believe; that the SCOTUS would circumvent a tried and true method of electing our Chief Executive. That the SC would allow the Rule of Law be overruled by partisan politics. It might not be the first time in SC history, but a more pointed abuse of power there has never been.

IMNSHO, I believe Bush Jr. (and the entire BFEE crew) capable and willing to put Americans in harms way for profit, no more proof should be needed than the ongoing war in Iraq. Turns out there are no WMD, and that in effect means that Bush has put our troops in harms way - and for what? Freedom? Protecting America? I say profit for political backers (Bechtel, Haliburton, etc) and no thought for the personal welfare of anyone that would be hurt in a war for profit.

Would Bush Jr. allow 911 to happen? He sure didn't have a problem sending our troops into a war that was based on false pretenses. If he allows our troops to die needlessly, then why wouldn't he allow a few thousand American civilians to die, needlessly? Profit, profit, profit.

[Hippo_Tron]

93. Anybody think it's possible that Chenney/Rove did it and Bush didn't know?

Just throwing this out to see what everybody thinks.

[Forkboy]

95. I doubt they would tell Bush too much

Bush is just a puppet after all.Hell,he'd have blabbed the plans on tv without even realizing it :)

[shraby]

97. This country has been in a warped

condition since John Kennedy was assassinated. I can believe nothing that comes out of congress or the white house since that day. I don't trust one politician to tell Americans the truth. They just don't care what happens to any of us as long as their pockets are well lined in the process of dealing out laws and regulations. If congress or the white house denies something you can pretty much be sure the opposite will happen, and there is a correlation between how many times they deny to what the real event is.
I certainly wish, hope and pray we could get out of this warp and have things become normal once again, but it seems the longer the warp exists, the worse it becomes.

[AntiCoup2K4]

100. Cheney & Poppy more likely

Dick & Daddy were both in the White House on the evening of September 10, 2001. Poppy left very early in the morning before the media could place him at the scene. Now technically, neither should have been there, with the "president" out of town. In fact, one might think that George Sr might have been in Florida, with Jeb & Junior in the same state for a little family meeting.

But the fact is that Poppy DID have a reason to be in DC on 9-11. He was meeting with the Carlyle Group that morning. Including members of a well known Saudi family. Their last name? Bin Laden.

Gee, I wonder what they were talking about at THAT meeting :eyes:

[Hailtothechimp]

101. Of course they did. Think of PNAC's "New Pearl Harbor"

and watch Tex in the classroom on 9/11. All the proof I need.

[alejandrofromcuba]

103. Bush did it?

Sept 11 was well planned and executed. No way Bush Jr is competent enough to be the brains behind it.

I dislike him as much as anyone--but sorry--I just can't buy him as a mastermind of a complicated plan involving the coordination of lots of people.

[stavka]

105. Then you Sir - are crazy beyond belief. (NT)

[dbt]

106. Waaaah. Mommy, that bad old mopaul is SCARING me again!

Waaaaah! What if Republicans see this thread? What will they think of us? Waaaaaah. mopaul is turning DU into a looney bin. Waaaaah. We HAVE to have rational, restrained discourse, but mopaul keeps taking the gloves off! Waaaaaah. Make him stop it!


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

:evilgrin:
dbt

[NightOwwl]

109. I'm new but I'll jump in anyway

I am angry and disgusted with this administration for what they have done to our country. They are corrupt, arrogant, self-serving and are only concerned with furthering their agendas. As we all know, one was to establish the U.S. as a major presence in the Middle East using Iraq as a starting point.

However, I do not subscribe to LIHOP or MIHOP. I do believe Cheney and the other neocons realized they could use the attack to their advantage, and I wouldn't be surprised if the thought was crossing their minds as the planes were hitting the towers.

But LIHOP/MIHOP? They were so wrapped up in the Cold War mentality they were trying to get Star Wars going again.

Besides, I think you're giving them too much credit. They are too stupid, arrogant and unimaginative to think any country but ours had the money, brains and power to organize an attack that could strike down buildings and kill thousands of people within minutes. After all, we're number one at everything, even when it comes to death and destruction.

Then there's the video. Bush was just about pissing his pants. If anyone did know, they were sure keeping it a secret from him.

This reminds me of the "Murder of Vince Foster!" and "Clinton the Rapist!" theories when some repubs were saying anything to prove Clinton was evil incarnate.

[amjsjc]

112. Good point-- would anyone script Bush reading a book to kindergardners...

Instead of jumping up to heroically deal with the problems of the country? That' s just too stupid not to be real.

[ramblin_dave]

119. Why do you think Bush would have been scripted?

The simplest form of LIHOP is to realize that al-Qaeda is trying to do something involving hijacked airplanes as weapons and then decide to do nothing to stop it. It might not have been known when and where and exactly how, just lower our shields and wait.

They wouldn't know Bush would be in some school at the time. They may not have let him in on all the details, or perhaps kept him in the dark knowing what a knothead he is. They could have given him some simple instructions - if you hear of something going down just keep on doing what you're doing, pretend to be surprised, wait for further instructions, etc.

[greatauntoftriplets]

111. 911 Skeptics Unite.

http://www.911skeptics.blogspot.com/

[Padraig18]

113. That group of incompetents couldn't organize an orgy in a brothel

No, I do NOT believe in either LIHOP or MIHOP; this gang is little more than ham-handed, witless thugs in nice suits. They don't have the BRAINS to organize anything that complex...

[tinanator]

115. stole the whitehouse out from under your nose

I wouldnt misunderestimate the company dumbass keeps.

[Dirk39]

114. I had doubts before, now I'm Mihop

Hello from Germany!

after reading the latest three essays from Matthias Broeckers here in Germany, I'm convinced it was an inside job.

The two aspects that convinced me:
1) What happened in Venice Beach (those flight-shools, Atta's lifestyle etc.)
2)the wargames

"On September 11, at least five different "war games" were being conducted by the military and intelligence agencies that simulated 9/11 type events which paralyzed the air defenses, apparently ensuring the success of the "attacks."
http://oilempire.us/wargames.html


These are links to the 3 articles, but they are german:

http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/special/wtc/17666/1.html
http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/special/wtc/17622/1.html
http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/special/wtc/17641/1.html

No way that "Osama and his 16 thieves" prepared it in a cave in the mountains. No way that "Osama and his 16 thieves" had a spy in the pentagon or the CIA, informing him of the wargames, happening on September 11. If there was ever any conspiracy-nuts theory about September 11, it's the official one!

Dirk

[Selwynn]

117. depraved indifference.

I believe that the Bush administration had more than enough evidence to take better action in preventing the 9/11 attack, if they had taken it seriously, and I believe that there was more than enough time on the day of 9/11 to significantly minimize the ammount of deaths/damage the occured if the administration had taken it seriously. I believe the reason they did not take it seriously is becuase they were so preoccupied with their own agenda (namely Iraq and tax cuts) that they didn't give a damn about anything else. What's more, I personally believe that their own ideology about the need for the United States to become more militarized meant that they really didn't care as much as they should if a terrorist attack did happen on US soil. I believe they knew full well that if there was an attack they would have the 90% approval rating to get away with just about anything they wanted.

So its not that I think they met in rooms and secretly planned to allow (or make) 9/11 happen. But I do believe they didn't care, and didn't care to a point of depraved recklessness. That's my own feeling on the matter.

[Veggie Meathead]

120. One of the questions frequently thrown at anyone who tries to

connect 9/11 to the Bush Administration is why would they do it?
I believe that the grand strategy is to wage war against Islam which has become the bete' noire of the Western world after the fall of communism.In this grand strategy, the Bush Administration has the collaboration of Britain overtly and of India and Israel covertly.
I believe Russia is also involved on the sidelines.If this strategy succeeds, it will be possible to eliminate Arabs/Muslims as a threat to world peace,either by their military collapse or the confiscation of their main natural resource:oil.The oil will be distributed to the friendly powers like India, Israel,and others who form part of this global strategy.The Arab countries which play along with the U.S. in this game will also stand to benefit such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

Iraq was to have been the staging point of this modern day crusade to militarily humiliate the Arabs/Muslims.9/11 may have been vital to secure the concurrence of Congress and this is why it had to happen.

What is also a telling point is that long before 9/11 Bush and Cheney got written legal advice stating they had the power to order torture of prisoners as commanders-in-chief in iraq.That they could not merely be confident of waging war against Iraq but were also preparing
for the aftermath at Abu Ghraib should tell us that every event in this strategy had been planned months in advance.Another little fact that is also telling is that air defense exercises were conveniently scheduled for 9/11 making it possible for the conspirators to seek cover if questions were raised.

To think that a man like Bin Laden could coordinate an event of this complexity from his caves in Afghanistan simply boggles the mind.The Bush administration had the motive,the means and the resources to deploy to carry out 9/11.Bin Laden didn't.One need not go further.

[Veggie Meathead]

121. One other thing that has bothered me about 9/11 is what I call

The Dog That Didn't Bark Theory. That is, given Bin Laden's limitations on his resources why would he choose the United States as the place to take his stand when he had easier access to Western Europe and just as many juicier targets over there? Also remember that
there are millions of Muslims who live in Britain, France and Germany
and could have been easily recruited by Bin Laden.In fact, if I remember correctly it was the so called Hamburg cell of Al Qaeda that was the mastermind of the 9/11 attack.

Following this reasoning, why hasn't there been any attacks at all in Britain or any of the Western European countries since 9/11?

If one looks at these questions with an open mind one cannot but reach the conclusion that 9/11 was a US project through and through to implement a global strategy for the subjugation of Islam.